Total posts: 2,193
Posted in:
-->
@Wylted
How in the world is that doxxing? Doxxing is finding specific stuff about a user through hacking their accounts... if i really disagree with someone and see them somewhere else where they said they are a guy, but pretend to be a girl here... i can call them out for that bc i found out through public means. That isn't doxxing. Shit i can guess you aren't a guy and you are a girl... that narrows it half, is that doxxing... FFS.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Wylted
Oh just realized that's an example... did he say you aren't a specific person? Did he have knowledge of it already bc the person told him?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Wylted
Seriously, he was banned for saying you aren't snoop dog? That's beyond stupid if it's the case.
Created:
Posted in:
@Polytheist-Witch
It's not an atheist scale by any means. The spiritual people are at the top... turquoise. Science is at orange which is still in tier 1 of the scale and not even that high up. It's higher than blue, the fundamentalist religions, which makes sense. But something like polytheism would be higher... but that depends how systematic the polytheistic belief is. If it's black and white thinking it will be at blue. Less dogmatic it will be at green. Systematic thinking it will be at yellow. However, the highest spiritual belief is a oneness type platform. But the implications of such a platform could have polytheistic elements. The thing is however, it doesn't make anyone better than anyone wherever they are at the platform... that isn't the point. The point is how aware you are and how many layers you can see in people, and in my opinion, the higher up the platform you are the better person you will be towards humanity. But not only that, you will be better to yourself too.
You still have me blocked and i tend to not talk to anyone that does this, but i will try... If you are going to ask me more questions unblock me so i don't have to keep tagging you. It's awkward.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
I don't fully disagree with you but you keep saying "we cannot say" ... I can say, and i can categorize my experiences since i've experienced them. It's more on the lines of 'you' can't say or categorize. I don't like saying this bc i don't like pretending i'm something special, but it is the truth. In one way or another, i'm the expert at this point. All you can do is give me ideas of what you think it could be, and i've asked and considered your points and people like you who aren't in my shoes. I just don't find them to be compelling enough to change the way i define my experiences, as something spiritual.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
If you'd rather stay skeptical until something can be proven... that is up to you and i don't fault you for it... it reasonable. I acknowledge there is no method to prove these things objectively for everyone. However, i have spent years using what i can in my arsenal, logic, reading, reasoning, anecdotal experiences to formulate my thoughts. For me, that is enough. I must say however, i haven't come to any one conclusion in regards to which spiritual platform is right, but i am almost certain something is going on that we can attribute to spirituality.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
But you understand the limitations to this sort of testing right?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
Interesting, but i answered those questions pretty honestly... i mean, i sure within a point or two mistake if anything. It's funny how it is deemed self-deluded since it was pretty honest. But in any case, i like the affirmation that i will succeed =)
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
They are all weak evidence to begin with bc they are all anecdotal. I am talking about personally how you should look at your own experiences. You said you had experiences. Those experiences can be and should be categorized by you. Plus, if you don't think that last example i gave regarding the dream is a spiritual experience at the very least, i don't think you are very interested in changing your perspective by any experience you could have.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
I told you how i define spiritual. Some kind of platform that is unknown to us that exhibits some kind of intelligence is a part of it. This can include many of the religions and philosophies. When i say suspect this platform i mean it by my definition which leaves it still open to speculation in what it could be. I don't think any spiritual experience ever reported gives us evidence towards any one platform. It's still a mystery which platform could be the case. However, i think through some observation and logic you can check some platforms off as less likely than others. Bringing you to some most likely platforms... but i no way do i think there is just one. There are a couple, but coincidentally at least for me, the platforms i have found to be more likely have the same implications. But point is... i think it is false to say these experiences are proof or even weak evidence towards any one platform.
And, if you've had experiences... i think you would know which ones are more compelling. If you've had experiences that truly make you scratch your head... then, you would see what i mean by it counting as evidence. I don't know your experiences... but there are many experiences that can be explained more logically by what we know like confirmation bias, etc. But, the experiences that can't be explained as easily by what we know will be the eye openers. You will see that giving the natural explanation seems more far fetched. I would say that is a strong experience. You should look at them in that sense... weak experience up to strong experiences. For instance "god" talking to you to say come to faith is a very weak experience. Hearing a voice telling you to make a left bc turning right would have killed you... is a medium experience. Having reoccurring dreams of an accident if traveled your normal way home, hearing a voice say go the shortcut on the day, and avoiding the exact same scene you saw in your dream... that would be a strong experience.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
I do not claim to kniw the answers I am simply unable to accept any explanation sans sufficient evidence.
I think the difference here is that i define sufficient evidence differently. I think there is sufficient evidence to at the very least suspect spirituality. But then again, i don't know how that would look if i didn't personally experience it... i may not call it sufficient evidence anymore. But i don't know since that isn't the case.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
I don't think demonstrating is the problem... the problem is no human can prove it. But even there, i'm not sure. Maybe there is someone out there that can. I have no way to know since we don't know what everyone is capable of. I can make a conclusion that no human can prove it only from the knowledge i have which is i can't produce any of my experiences. But i don't know if that is the case for everyone. Maybe someone can but for certain reasons, like not wanting the attention or not giving away their ability if it's making them rich, won't come forward. The percentage of people that can is probably astronomically small... and having this person be someone that craves attention and fame is probably even smaller. Understanding that all i can say is that i can't produce proof therefore i don't think anyone can... but, obviously also realize that is a bad generalization. With that i'm left with i don't know/who knows.Are you certain that the problem isn't that most humans aren't capable of demonstrating such truths?
But i also realized your question could mean most humans aren't wise enough to be able to demonstrate these truths... in that i agree. Most people are too ignorant and brainwashed to be able to objectively demonstrate what even their own spiritual experiences could mean. They will just assert whatever religion/belief they were born in. Most humans don't have spiritual intelligence and even if they do... they aren't aware enough to think beyond what they are taught. To get to where i am spiritually, one has to put themselves in many uncomfortable positions of being wrong. I'm not trying to brag and say that humbly, but i've noticed a lot of people can't do that.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
I have no way of testing your experiences. It does not matter if you have had one spiritual experience or three or three million. They are not useful to our discussion as they are not a part of our shared reality. I do not expect you to take my word for any of my claims which is part of the reason I sincerely try to make as few possitive claims as possible and often qualify them. I also often provide a link or citation.
I know i didn't tell you that with the intention that you would believe me or that it is evidence for you. I very well know it isn't. I just wanted to tell you where i'm personally coming from. I wish there was a way to test it for everyone bc i do think having a positive spiritual belief could be a good thing. However, the more i understand, the more i realize most humans aren't capable of handling such truths yet... so in that sense, it also makes sense to me why it should be elusive.
I'm not certain this is the case. The truth is that so far as we view things that are smaller and smaller things that appear to be one are truly many. Perhaps this will change one day but to my knowledge to date it has not.
Huh... Are you talking about the different electrons, protons, etc. that are in atoms (which we've never seen, but other methods i would say are good enough to detect them so i won't argue against it)? Bc the only difference from one thing to another is how many they have in them. Other than that, everything is made of the same thing. Of course it is, or else we wouldn't be here, for star dust would have never been able to create worlds if we aren't all one thing. Etrnl broke it down a little more, but truly i don't see any reason to believe we are dual beings other than perceptions.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
By duality i mean is that everything is made of atoms, everything is made of the same material. If you looked at the universe under a microscope, everything would appear as one.
Nevertheless, i agree with you that you should be skeptical of claims. But you don't understand a few things when it comes to me personally with spirituality. One is that i know we don't have a way to test it. We aren't even trying. So the only person at this point that can try is me. Therefore, i am personally testing it. I usually only share 3 of my experiences, but those aren't the only experiences i've had. There are one/two specific other experiences i've had that i can personally test (more so one of them). For if they are as they are... then they should continue to happen in my life. So far... they've happened every single time as predicted. It's still ongoing, bc there are still events that should trigger these experiences. But so far they've happened every time has they should. So... being skeptical for me is a lot harder. It's basically like dark matter for me at this point. I am beginning to know something is there, and using as much logic and reasoning i can to pin point what could be the cause.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
I got 49... Can you tell me what that means without me having to watch the podcast.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@EtrnlVw
Yeah I like a lot of things in yellow, I really liked the systematic complexity, understanding, multiple perspectives, open mindedness and really I like personal development. I think I could flesh that out some more for sure. Actually maybe sense orange irritates me I could embody it a little more. Red though, that is like the opposite of what I am, I just flat out don't like it lol. I ain't goin anywhere near that one.
I think i remember you saying you're around the same age, if that's the case, both of us could use this stage a little longer. Of course this doesn't mean in certain perspectives we can't transcend it, but it would be good to keep growing more before putting this stage behind us. But of course never completely bc we will always be growing... i think the key is when we have enough information that we can comfortably say we understand all the systematic levels of it. Really, just learning there is this spiral dynamics, although i intuitively knew something is up, has helped me personally grow a lot. I hope it helps you the same in that regard; i'm happy you looked into it.
I agree. But I'll skip red :p sorry
At some point you were red, even if it was just a thought or a day. But i think you quickly grew out of it realizing selfish desire doesn't get you what you truly want. I remember when i was red. It was around young ages. 7 years old or something. But i grew away from it quick bc i realized causing pain to another really hurts. It's actually a crazy story i think i've told you. I stole a girls pen her dead grandparent gave her and they announced it over the speakers of the school. She was in my class crying... i slowly walked up and put it on her desk when no one was looking. After that i realized taking selfishly hurts others. It's sad some adults are stuck in this color... i can actually think of some members here i suspect could be stuck in red.
Well remember reincarnation is a reality to consider here. No one really has any time limit to get it right. However they their do stifle their progress and potential as the magnificent spiritual beings they are.
It's sad more don't see it... but i fear bc they don't see it they are doomed to live unfulfilling lives (or a good chance to) since they won't have any control at all over their awareness which would give you enough to reincarnated as whatever you can imagine. Reincarnation actually is really complex in that there are so many levels to it in what you can come back as... i think coming back to this world is one of the lowest levels although some might think it's the highest that are even aware enough to control... they aren't aware enough that they can be gods.
Lol I know, just like we see here in the forums.
Although you can never pin point someones exact color, you can see what they are likely. It's funny... i wish i didn't learn this bc now it's all i see. Like all of moderation is pretty green. Once you see this you see which colors are attacking them and which colors are in support. It's pretty funny. The red members are on the fence / sometimes in attack sometimes in support, the blue members are also either or, but the orange or orange/blue members come at them the hardest. Lol.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Fallaneze
Fine tuning for life could be accidental, could be ID, could be creation, could be a computer simulation, etc... oh there are more. How in the world would that be compelling for anything?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Analgesic.Spectre
You're so incredibly special. Lol. Obviously our world is fine tuned for life or else there wouldn't be life. Does that mean god, no... there is other stuff much more important to support ideas of alternative realities...FT not being one of them. Bc, fine tune could just as easily be accidental or ID... there is no way to know. Debating you would mean i take either side... which is ridiculous to even ask for.But be warned: if history is anything to go by, I'm one of the top 5 debaters of this site.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@EtrnlVw
That's good you realize it. Many people don't realize when they are getting trapped. Now do you understand why i thinking allowing a little chaos is beneficial? It's a very teal way (well now maybe coral) of looking at it seeing that it is needed to bring things together. I don't think you get stuck in blue too much. I thought sometimes in the past when i thought you were hardcore into your spiritual path is the only. But through talking to you i've realized you understand that there are little nuances that could be different. So i don't think you get stuck in blue too bad, for blue is basically the black and white thinkers. My religion is all there is and i'm right bc a higher power tells me so types. I know you can think of some users here that are really stuck in blue. I don't think of you as one. But in regards to green. There are some green things you do. Moderation and everything being clean is a very green perspective. So is your health advice... but, with that i'm not sure since studies do show a clean health is beneficial. You clearly have a point there. And you aren't someone that has told me i can't eat what i want... so actually i don't think that's very green... it's more yellow. Spiritually you are for sure teal.Like I said I have some shadows too, mainly in blue and green, I get caught up in those sometimes.
I personally think every color is needed for this world to evolve, so i don't really dislike any color bc i see their benefit to the world. But orange and red are most def. the colors that can trigger me the easiest. I orange is annoying in their materialist world view bc they fail to see they are still infants in the grand scheme of things... but still they assert such absolutes. And i don't like red bc they typically are violent... bullies and criminals. I actually can't stand people in red. I seriously want to help them as fast as i can escape that type of mindset but as soon as i see no hope, i'm gone. I use to have some people in that color around me and they are just too dumb to stimulate any kind of interest from me. So red is probably the color i dislike the most. The lower colors are understandable since they are just very primitive. Like tribes or people with mental disease. I actually am very interested by those types of people.
Do you have a link for that color?
Yeah it is a bit hard to find but this is the best video i found where the guy sounded like he knows what he is talking about
Other than this some books go into these higher colors. But you have to understand... teal is a present day manifestation. People are just waking up to this color. So to transcend teal is pretty crazy and rare if it's even a thing. I personally think it is, and i don't want to assert i am there bc it sounds arrogant, but i may not be fully teal, but i clearly understand it... and i feel i understand it a little beyond what it is. The thing is yellow is the most important in tier 2. Bc yellow is the color that seeks knowledge of every kind. It is always looking at different things, sorta scatter brained in knowledge. I feel although in certain things i am teal or coral even... i am mainly yellow bc i'm not ready to leave yellow yet. I know i still have a lot of learning to do before i can put yellow behind me. So it's important to pin point which elements you have in you in what colors. Bc different perspectives will be in different colors. You have to try and transcend them all up the latter to be fully enlightened as they say.
I noticed that too, pretty cool. Once you got it you got it, these are just levels and states of consciousness souls get stuck in.
That's an interesting point of view and actually what i was most curious about when i made this thread... can people transcend their color? Me personally, i have been climbing the latter bc that's just who i am. I have always been this way... a person with the capacity to get to teal or beyond. I remember every moment of my life and what color i was in but i moved up the spiral naturally. So, i wonder if everyone can do this. I know some people are taught and they can do it that way... but i wonder if someone that is stuck in blue or orange... if they can ever escape it. Bc they are positive they are right. That's the tricky thing of each level. Each color thinks the other color is deluded or crazy. It's something else to drop that and join their perspective. I think some just aren't capable no matter what you say. They are naturally born with the capacity to only reach their level.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@EtrnlVw
Yeah he is one of my favorite creators bc he makes very insightful videos and i find myself agreeing with him a lot. He also uses philosophies by people i've valued like Sadhguru and other mystics and such. It's rare finding tier 2, especially turquoise, thinkers and i think he's one.
Yeah, i most def. saw those tier 2 colors in you. A benefit of being in tier 2 is that you can not only be any color on any given moment, you know when you are and you can also see others in what color they are. You become fully conscious of the spiral in tier 2 so you can manipulate it, use it, and see it. What you said is the same i felt, believe it or not lol... i felt most comfortable with yellow and turquoise. And, i was left wanting more bc i also feel like i've transcended turquoise. But understand it is really rare to even get to turquoise, so don't trick yourself... like me you may not be as solid that color as you may think. I feel like i am, but i also feel like i could be a little more yellow since i just don't feel ready to be full turquoise. Things still bother me a little and i haven't let go of the self completely yet to go full guru type mentality. I'm just trying to give myself some give so i can work more, but intuitively i feel beyond turquoise and i might be a little.
So yes, i did search for some coral traits and they sorta fit... not much. One guy called coral the chaos character. This would be a person that knows exactly what kind of chaos you can enter into a system to fix the system. Bc you would know that creating said chaos will make the system work itself out. For instance protests with riots may get a lot of peoples attention to a particular issue where a small protest people will look over. You know these chaos creations will have this positive affect. In this regard, it's like me bc i've always thought entering chaos is helpful. Ironically, that is my reason for letting lax moderation i just explained on the other thread.
Then i also want to say this is a coral trait bc at least to me it felt very transformative when i figured it out. But this is my opinion on a coral trait. Spiritually in turquoise, what makes you this color that i will call teal now tired of writing it lol, what makes you teal is coming to the profound understanding that everything is one. When you are teal you get that "oh, that's what's going on" moment. You just get it. I think what happens in coral is you get this same profound understanding of the self. You get the same "oh shit i get it" moment when it comes to self in regards to: Why you would create yourself here, your purpose here, and knowing almost certainly where you are going next... understanding everything about the self. I literally cured my depression when i got this oh shit moment. It may still be a teal realization, but i feel it would also be an appropriate realization for coral. And if you haven't had this oh moment... i would say to work towards it bc it is quite a profound insight.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@EtrnlVw
I use this site a lot more than my FB account. I don't think i even remember the password. I've always valued online friends more than any real friend i've had. It's a bunch of idiots on FB so i tend to stay away from that platform lol.
I know where you are coming from with the mod stuff and i agree to a certain degree. The thing about me is that i've coached some kids that the internet is the best place to practice handling bullying. These are kids that had no come back skills and just took it so they were really frustrated like there was something wrong with them. I always gave them one specific advice and it was to go on the internet and to start trouble or mix up in the trouble with a visible troll and 1) practice come backs and witty remarks and 2) let it not affect them at all if they fail. Of course i also told them if they started trouble and hurt someone to tell them what they are up to and that they are sorry. They were good kids so i told them that might happen but to just tell them they are practicing and watch the magic of the other person forgiving them almost instantly. This is how i got witty and overcame certain social fears. So, i know the internet is very good for this practice. That is the only reason, at least the main reason, i think it is good to have a lax platform. Right now i direct them to Youtube comments bc it's best there in regards to freedom of words. If sites like this could do it too it is just a benefit in my eyes. It may offend others, but you have no clue who it is actually helping in the long run... sometimes even the abused. But of course i think there should be a limit... i'm just really lax on that limit due to this reason. I've never explained myself so this is my reason.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@disgusted
Give me proof where something ends and something else begins in quantum states... other than your mental perceptions of it being separate.
Created:
-->
@EtrnlVw
I put up a video in philosophy about spiral dynamics you should check out. Just you being able to grasp these concepts puts you in yellow / turquoise... which is the top of the spiral. Not that any one group is better than the other, but the higher up the spiral you are the better human you are... that's my opinion. But understanding it will really help understanding why you see things the way you do and others as they do. The interesting thing is tier 2 thinkers which is yellow and turquoise are the types that realize this oneness platform. That's what i found most interesting. You are most definitely in yellow, but i don't know how solid... bc i notice green traits from you too. Anyways, it's a cool system that was very well studied and used large sample sizes to come to its conclusions. I value big studies like that for i find they yield the best results.
Created:
-->
@EtrnlVw
Oh i agree there is duality. We are dual type beings in order to experience. I mean, scientifically ... looking all the way down to atoms, it all seems as one. Which would make sense or be a tad bit of evidence pointing towards the source. Since it should all in one way correlate to being one if we are all from one consciousness. But i fully agree with your duality. Remember, i have even taken that duality to the source. I believe although we all become one, we individualize from that state towards duality again in order to manifest as an individual experiencing being in some other reality or this reality again. I believe the platform should look non-dual... but everything having to do with our experience should also look dual due to us individualizing within the source.
Created:
-->
@EtrnlVw
I'd be willing to switch out the term God for Creator, what do you think? The term God doesn't really bother me because I really have no straw man attached to the name. When I say "God" I'm not referring to any belief system or religion. I'm referring to the Creator, as we call it the first Source.
I personally call it source bc that wouldn't presuppose an individual where god and even creator sorta do. I truly do not think the source is an individual in any sense. I don't think it has thought process like hey let's create humanity. I think everything just happens through it bc everything exists within it. It doesn't bother me much to call it creator though since that fits, god presupposes religion so it bothers me but really, it's an appropriate word to use for the source. I don't really care with you bc you've made it clear what you are talking about. So whatever you're more comfortable with doesn't bother me.
The atheist thing I cant really get with, don't get me wrong I know what you mean but either way atheism seems to me to be more of a materialistic worldview.
I agree but all i'm really saying is that this world, even materialistically seems non-dual. Everything else you said i agree with.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@janesix
Everything in the universe is one. You cannot tell me where you end and a table starts. If you look at our universe bird's eye view and all the way down to atoms... you will see everything is one. So it is logical to think we are all god, if god is everything. However, i also believe we have individualized within the source or god. Maybe that is what you are experiencing. You aren't experiencing the full length of god, but i don't think many do bc we do not stay and/or wouldn't stay as god for very long. Although it will probably be bliss, it would also be fear... well, it would be everything simultaneously which is why i believe we have individual higher selves to transcend the feeling / negatives of being a solipsistic type entity when we are all god. Next step would be to experience after you have individualized. Which this would be one of your experiences. Why? For everything you love about this world, for everything this world has strengthened you with, or even for the negatives or doing negatives to this world. This i don't know since you have your own reasons for being here. Mine are likely different.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Castin
I don't know lol. I had to make it somewhat obvious i'm lying... or am i? There is a hint of truth in my statement.
Created:
-->
@janesix
That's true. If we define physical by being able to be felt than i would say energy qualifies. Beyond that i'm not sure either.
Created:
-->
@janesix
Well it is tangible for sure. Would that make it physical?
Created:
-->
@janesix
I don't think it's physical. But i would imagine something like lighting is sorta physical. Don't know too much detail about energy. Just surface level stuff. Stuff like lighting is still a big mystery and other things like dark energy too. Anything else i tell you would be off of a google search not from personal knowledge. All i know is that it takes energy to move things.
Created:
-->
@janesix
Well the definition of that is pretty broad. What kind of energy do you mean? Heat? What it takes to move an object? Etc.
Created:
Posted in:
Anyone play this mobile game? If so are you good? If you are... wanna join me in some smurfing?
Created:
-->
@EtrnlVw
I don't think energy can exist without matter. They are both working together and a property of each other's existence. Have you studied non-duality? For a lot of your ideas fit in such a platform that's taught in most eastern philosophies. But it also makes sense even if we look at it as an atheist. Everything is one. There is no proof where i end and a table begins. It's only awareness and ego that observes duality. Therefore, it is likely all of this is the source. Energy being the way the source creates. But all of it is one and all of it is eternal. That's why energy can never die, it is the tool that moves matter in accordance with the sources manifestations. Therefore, it is an eternal tool of the source. Quite possibly, energy and matter were created at the same time by the source, that's one possibility. Or, it's just all existed with the source. Very hard to pin point this since we are talking about before the big bang type stuff.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@janesix
Well it depends on what truth you are talking about. Everyone can be right in what happens to them in death. Every single afterlife or lack of an afterlife idea can be right. You just go where you believe you will go or you simply stop existing. But is everyone right in what they assert about this world? No. No one religion is the moral authority for everyone. No one religion has the truth that applies to everyone.
Created:
-->
@janesix
Yeah evolving made sense to me for a long time and what i pitched as most probable. But then thinking about it, i don't see why it wouldn't be the counter intuitive answer either. If we are all a manifestation of an infinite source of consciousness, this source could have always existed. But if it evolved, it would actually explain why we evolve. For in its evolution every type of human would be created from primitive to more advanced. So every one would need to play a role for the other to exist when this source manifests life. That's harder to answer in case it's always existed. Bc then i wouldn't see why it just wouldn't start out civilizations in an advanced stage. But then again... there may be deep reason for why it must follow that progression. It's really unknowable. The best one can do in understanding this source is to try and 1) empathize with it in that trying to imagine what it would be like as it is now, and 2) to try and experience it which you can do through many ways such as meditation, dreams, and even hallucinogenic drugs. I personally experienced it by all three of those methods.
Created:
-->
@janesix
Oh okay so i remembered correctly. Yeah, he does have an interesting version of this non-dual entity. One of the ways it can manifest is that it has been evolving for eons and it eventually has got to where we are. That is certainly possible, but so is that this consciousness has always existed. It's an infinite source where everything is happening and has happened. That is one of the more favorite ones of people like him bc it's counter intuitive since the latter anthropomorphizes the possibility. There is no reason for why we should be able to comprehend it and put it into simple processes. But overall non-duality i would say is the best spiritual platform bc it very much seems like that's what's going on. A lot can be explained by such a platform.
Created:
-->
@janesix
I'm glad you are exploring this version of god. I have a few critiques of Mr. Campbell. One is that he asserts too much knowledge in the unknowable. I am always wary of guru types, sage type people when they start explaining the process of how this consciousness came about. Bc if they can truly imagine it, they should know full well there is more than one way it can be possible. So, if they go off one and try to sell it... i feel they are just doing it for a pay day. I don't remember Campbell's videos enough to remember if he is guilty of this, but i do remember feeling that way when i watched a couple of his videos. Ultimately, this type of thinking is my favorite version of "god" ... but he also does speak of this intelligence as an individual which i am and most people talking about this platform are against. Bc if this god is everything it is everything... and by being this way it makes this entity more of an 'it' rather than a 'who.' I think he is trying to sell this idea to the main religious followers so he is trying to make it relatable. If he is doing that on purpose than it's sorta genius... but if he truly believe it as is, i would say he has more thinking to do into the implications of such a being.
Overall, he is one guy i really like. If you are getting interested in this type of platform i would suggest looking up experts / talkers in the subject of non-duality. It is the most likely i would say platform to suspect if it were true. I'm currently listening to this video and i like what the guy has been saying so far, but i'm only a few minutes into it so i don't know... it seem interesting though.
Created:
Posted in:
I have 4 accounts. One to troll, One to grudge vote, one to be good cop, one to be bad cop. All of them are from different ip addresses so you'll never know i have 4 accounts. I am a different person at work (good cop), at my parents (bad cop), at my sisters house (grudge vote), and my best friends house (troll)... I'm kidding of course. =)
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@janesix
I don't like answering this bc it screams god complex, but i've spent years trying to understand god. Obviously i can't understand such a being fully but i have experienced what it would feel like to be god and furthermore have a surface level understanding or i should say empathy for such an entity. Understanding this entity has been one of the main reasons i believe in the platform i have chosen. An infinite consciousness and/or a pantheistic type of entity where we are all god and god is everything. However, i don't call it god bc i've also realized this entity isn't someone or a who... it just is. So i call it source since god presupposes a who. That is the only logical way this entity could be bc of horrors i've come to understand would plague it if it were an individual.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
But there are limitations to our current understanding / methods... and does your skepticism only apply to spiritual matters or everything... for instance, we can't test for if we are dual beings and everything seems non-dual... So, do you believe in non-duality as a default until we can test otherwise? Or do you stay skeptical of dark energy or matter until we can test for it?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
Yeah, well it's really hard to just toss it when everything screams it was correct. But i'm aware enough to know there are natural explanations, even if those explanations in my opinion are more far fetched, there still there. So i'm sure even if you experienced something, you can find a natural explanation to answer it. That's the war that will go on in your head. Of course, unless you are like the gullible and just subscribe whatever god you were born into to the event (people i think muddy the water in these things). I don't think your like them however but i also don't think you're like me in that you would probably just write it off.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
Of off my own experiences and experiences i've heard from other people. Let's take a ghost hunters experience. When you ask something that's not there to knock once for yes and two for no... and this happens consistently for a good 30 minutes of asking questions, one could say the knocking is by something that can answer questions or intelligent. I use this example bc it's also very likely that the sounds are just coincidental noise (in most cases i think that's the cause). But the thing is, if it isn't, then it would be something intelligent bc it follows commands. Then there are more elaborate experiences where the chance of coincidental happening is much lower. But most experience, not all, follow this point... if they are truly happening in a spiritual sense they exhibit intelligence to some level.
There was an experience some guy told me where he heard a voice say to him "Sorry, this guy (i forget his name but it said it) was going to be really good friends with you but he just died in an accident). He went to work and a random coworker that he didn't really even know yet but thought would be a cool person had just died in a car accident. These experiences are tricky bc it can be just something we don't know about the mind... but i would say only something intelligent can tell him that... even if the source was himself. These are the experiences i find most curious bc it's also like mine and i've heard many, well not many, but a handful of people that had experiences it was something like that. Another was a girl approached a guy i knew and told him to tell his mom not to go on vacation. He didn't think anything of it and thought she's delusional... the mom went on vacation and got hit by a drunk driver. That can also be very random chance, but if something gave that girl the feeling to say that to him... i would imagine it was intelligent, and a higher intelligence to boot. Which is why i've also started suspecting higher intelligences.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
It would qualify if i didn't briefly define what i meant by spiritual in this context. I think you are going off your own preconceived definition of spiritual as stuff like gods, supernatural, ghosts or something. That isn't how i define the word all the time. I think if someone says they witnessed something spiritual it usually means that they witnessed something unexplained that seemed to exhibit intelligence. That is the definition i think could cover most instances of when someone says they witnessed a spiritual event. People that say they've witnessed aliens, ghosts, god, gods, etc... are the ones engaging in a fallacy bc they are doing as you said... giving an absolute to something unexplained. But the way i define it not only covers all of the above, but it also allows for uncertainty in what actually happened. I feel that is the most honest way to define the word. Remember, i'm very far off from being one of those people. I feel you keep mistaking me as one bc i ultimately have a belief (suspect) in a higher intelligence.
Now, i make educated guesses to what spiritual platforms can answer these experiences (which spiritual platform would allow for these things). I acknowledge i am making a leap when i do that and that i can be wrong. I also expand on the definition here a little bc spiritual platforms can mean god / gods. A god would be something unexplained that exhibits intelligence. In the end of the day, I have come to a conclusion that suspecting a spiritual platform is logical, which i further would say and start describing a non-dual type entity the best fits. But that's way down the lines of what i am talking about. All am saying is these experiences are just one of a couple other reasons i find suspecting such a thing is logical. It's not the iron clad proof nor is it my only reason. But i am very confident people experience spiritual phenomena... make what you will of it, it happens. I think being curious to what the implications are at this point is justified. I've chosen a platform that is pantheistic in nature, but i don't fault someone that stays skeptical. All i can do is explain myself, and in that explaining i'm saying i've considered unreliable memories, i just don't find them convincing enough to toss the idea of spiritual experiences aside.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
God i wanted to avoid this bc i don't like throwing out fallacy this or that bc it's petty... but, I'm making an arg from ignorance fallacy? You're backpedaling man. You are the one making this argument fallacy. You have no clue what i've witnessed nor everyone else has witnessed yet you are saying i'm wrong, or they're wrong, to categorize it how we've witnessed it? Really... the irony. And as to me, how am i making any fallacy when i haven't even asserted absolute knowledge? I said it's spiritual... i.e. unexplained phenomena that "seemed" to exhibit intelligence. Bc that is exactly how i witnessed it. I don't say it's god, ghosts, aliens, angles, demons, a part of the human mind we're not aware of, etc... it could be any one.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
Did i say supernatural? A spiritual platform would be natural if it exists. All i said is that it points to a spiritual platform. I define that buy phenomena that is unexplained and seems to exhibit intelligence. In no way do i think it's supernatural, but then again it comes down to how you define supernatural. If saying something that can manipulate our laws (but still has to play by them) is supernatural, then i would say okay. But i'm not under the impression that's how it's strictly defined. By the strict definition i don't agree it's supernatural bc i do believe our science one day can understand it or at the very least it's possible. And i voiced that in my previous writings. You're grabbing at straws man.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mharman
I think so. That just might be a little too much.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
I know. I purposefully said similar instead of like. The point of the analogy is about saying memory is unreliable to such a large degree of people that have witnessed something is not a very good reason to say they are all mistaken. I'm sure if i witnessed an eagle kill a rabbit, my memory is good. Just as i am sure i have seen phenomena that was not explainable... and this would apply to most people that have witnessed such things. Faulty memory would be an error of a few not all, or in my opinion, not most either. Delusion and mistakes... sure, that can be a factor too. But like i said, only one needs to be true for the implications to be huge.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
Yes i did. So, we don't have a means to test for it with are methods. Now what? Bc there is a now what. It is similar to saying i saw an eagle kill a rabbit a year ago. How do you test for that? If your only answer is your memory is unreliable... well, with this example i hope you can see how ridiculous that sounds.Testability means repeatability. A person's experiences cannot be repeated and so are untestable. You make my point for me.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
How do you test any of my experiences that have happened randomly and without them being under my control? I can't sit here and do any of it again. That is not repeatable. People that realize others have had these experiences go into the business of fraud to pretend they can control it... they are liars and that is who science has exposed. Furthermore, you don't know if there is some guru out in the middle of nowhere that can prove it... in that sense i don't know... but i am under the impression people can't control these events. By its nature it isn't provable so bringing science into this just doesn't make sense, right now.
You are right and wrong about how people categorize events they have witnessed. Not everyone remembers as you said. Again you are generalizing. In my practice, we know what type of events in accidents are hard to remember and we choose to go with the testimony that is hard to mistake. People tend to remember something that happened in a string of events and that was profound. That is more vivid than seeing a car accident for a split second and recalling that memory. There are differences and you are only concentrating on the types of memories that are prone to error. Not all are like that. So again you saying people that have had spiritual experiences are in error, there are thousands that are not... but not even that... what you aren't getting is that only one person's claim needs to be true, just one.
In the end you staying skeptical isn't something i can tell you that you're wrong in. You haven't witnessed anything therefore are working with zero evidence which would naturally make you skeptical of others claiming such things. All i can say is i ultimately think you are wrong and give you my logic in why. If you choose to not accept it than that's just you and your perspective. I'm not here to help you transcend your perspective only to tell you there are other ones so it's up to you to try and see why.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
I'm a paralegal... i'm well aware of personal testimonies unreliability. However, you are taking it to its extreme. Not "all" personal testimony is unreliable. You are saying everyone that has had spiritual experiences is unreliable. I find that to be quite close minded and i don't mean offense by that.. it's just what it is. That is the perspective you need to transcend that you are stuck in. It's not the only perspective, nor is it right (or wrong in a bigger picture). I for one know my testimony isn't unreliable and if it is... there is little chance it is. And i am by far not the only person that has had experiences. There are likely millions of others. To say every single on is unreliable... I'm sorry, i don't buy it.
Edit: In addition, i forgot to address, by what it is... it cannot be tested by our current scientific method bc it isn't repeatable. There is no way to test it to say it's fact. It's only fact that are science can't test for it (i should add 'currently').
Created: