Outplayz

I have reasons why i don't believe in a god as commonly defined, but i do think there is a first source of intelligence which would be online with your logic. I am just one that defines "god" differently but i guess i am still going towards the idea. 

I just linked your account to him =P 

Lol.. hey, get your account back up... DDO won't stay dead. I just made an extra account so if you want me to do it for you let me know. 

In this case, aren't you basically admitting to a deistic type of god... or something different than any one religion explains? Since they, by this logical, all may have errors but point to one entity. 

I'm old enough to remember when it wasn't too bad... so you have a point. I imagine the only thing that has changed is more regulations.  

Oh cool! Now i know so it doesn't get confusing when i reply to you there lol. 

Because what they are charging is theft.  It's bs.  How else can we have them lower it without regulations, etc.? 

Okay second experience which is a shorter story thankfully, my hands are tired i've been typing all day. I went with a friend to one of his friends houses. The house was thrashed, everything everywhere, some holes in the walls, so i jokingly told the guy, "hey is your house haunted or something." As soon as i said that his eye's lit up. He said, "how did you know." I said know what? That my house is haunted. Then i started teasing him, bc i am naturally skeptical. This happened before the previous one btw... i would have been less skeptical if that had happened first. But at this point, i really didn't believe in spirit stuff. So i kept teasing. 

He started to share some of the "ghost" stories in his house. They were pretty profound. Things like his stuff being thrown. His clothing thrashing around by itself. Stuff like that. He thought whatever the "ghost" was is evil and "out to get him." At that point i thought, well if it can do all that, it should be able to spin my necklace. So i took off my necklace and i told him... hey, if you are serious tell it to spin my necklace. He agreed. This is the crazy part. I told him to wait. My mind was all scientific at this point. I said wait so i can watch the natural spin. I held my arms on my knees, got comfortable, used my other hand for more stabilization and said okay... i'm ready. He started yelling "spin it, spin it" The light right spin turned into a medium spin, to a hard right spin... i still didn't believe and said no way... tell it to stop it. He yelled to stop it, the right spin slowed, and came to a stop... i still didn't believe... i thought the natural spin is right, the hard spin was right... it should be impossible for it to go left, so i said tell it to spin left... he asked and so did we receive. It literally stopped the small right spin, started spinning left, to a hard left spin. I dropped the necklace at that point freaked the hell out. 

The thing with this one is i can't even say coincidence. I am lost on this one. I've tried to replicate it and the only way it could have spun as hard as it did from me holding it was that i spun it. Even if it was subconscious... i had to spin it, moving my hands around... my hands were still. So... this sorta brought me over to the dark side... especially since a week later he died of a drug overdose.. haunting the experience even more. 

There... that is two out of the four experiences i've had. I've thought of them all critically, but i'm curious to your analysis or thoughts.  

Okay... they are stories however so brace yourself. You have to know the full context because how they happened and/or the road to it is what makes these experiences interesting. 

I have had 4 experiences, one i never tell anyone, the others i go over 2 of them since that will be a lot of content already.  

The year before this event i was having reoccurring (4) dreams. Not nightmares but annoying. In these dreams i was in Vegas looking for something. I didn't know what i was looking for, but i was intent on getting it or finding it. Annoyingly, before i could find out i woke up. At the end of the year, a group of friends told me they are getting a tour bus to go to Vegas and if i wanted to go. In every other case i would have said no. I'm introvert and i hate group stuff like that... especially with people i don't know. But, bc of the dreams... i thought, darn... i'm curious of the dreams so i'll go. 

A little back story i have only had reoccurring dreams twice. This time, and one before which interestingly also lead to one of the four experiences i've had. That is why i agreed to go... i thought maybe i'll have a 3 some or something... i was thinking sex mainly lol.

The first night we got to Vegas we partied. I took E, i'll get that out of the way. It was the end of the night and i was back to normal. I took a xanax to help me sleep. We were in another room and all the sudden i just got very bad vibes. Not normal of me but i felt scared for some reason. My friend ran up to me and said we need to go back to our room. I got to the room and one friend was crying. I asked what is going on, and one of my other friends was in the bathroom with blood on the ground. He was cringing and looked like he was in pain. I was like what the hell? And, they didn't know what to do and were kinda drunk. I was fully sober at this point and sorta come bc of the xanax. They said we can't take him to the hospital bc they were messed up. The friend throwing up blood was doing so every 3 minutes or so. 

As soon as my friends said call hotel doctors up... something hit me. At the same exact time the feeling hit me i heard a "female" voice say, "tell everyone to leave you could heal him." I got a little freaked out bc that is the first time i've ever heard a voice. The hotel doctors were on their way so i didn't say anything... but i still had that feeling that hit me. It felt like my body was "fuzzy" mixed with "electric." The hotel docs got up and saw my friend throw up twice and said we need to take him now... at which point i told everyone to leave i will take him. I don't think the hotel people were doctors so they left too. I'm still curious why they didn't do more bc it was clearly blood he was throwing up. 

So the hotel people left and so did everyone else. I sat down and watched him. Cringing in pain and he threw up blood. I thought come on... 'heal him' ... what is going on. He threw up again. I was losing any faith i could heal him... now way right? I thought if this doesn't work i gotta go. So i thought to put my hands on his head. I put my hand on his head, that fuzzy feeling literally felt like it drained from me to him. As soon as the last of the feeling left my fingers, he went from looking like death, to pulling up the sheet we had on him, sigh of relief, to smiling. I was like WTF. No way. I sat and watched him a little more... he looked good. I nudged him and asked him how are you... he was able to answer, which he was unresponsive before, that he is fine and feels good.  

You can imagine, giving all the events... the percentage of coincidences is winning the lottery status. Plus, i later realized that my other experience with the recurring dreams... i got hit with the same "fuzzy" feeling but in that case i healed myself. I was blown away in thought the rest of the time. Of course it can all be coincidence, but holy sheet.   

Oh okay... but i thought max also has his account closed. 

Yes, absolutely. But, what if we can find a way to make them a competitor with the private companies? I am absolutely against giving it over to government... i'm just trying to think of a way to integrate them into the mix that would split up the current monopolies and give them an actual competitor.  

That's awesome thanks for you engagement with members that is really cool. One other thing i just noticed, when you get a notification of a reply to your post or mention.. it doesn't take you to the new post when you click on it. That would make it easier to find the comment that replied to you. 

Yeah... I guess we can only cross our fingers that we are good enough to do it right. That is why i am not a fan of government involvement as a whole. I think we should try everything before bring them into the mix. 

It would be cool to have a "like" option on the forum posts. No "dislike" bc that would be kinda mean. But, having a "like" can save people from writing "agree "or something like that on the posts. 

Because simply they are over-charging. Healthcare cost are ridiculous. How can we decrease these costs? That's the question. Will it happen if we let them compete more... or, do we have to have government get more involved in our healthcare. 

I'm trying to remember the scene where the guy died looking at one of those girls and said my "goddess" or something... i forget, but i remember it gave me the feels. 

Just everything i have written. Some of the posts or replies i have saved i did a lot of research before posting. Who knows if one day i can use it for monetary gains. Especially since i post mainly in the religion forum, i have some creative work that i would like to have access to. It's pretty dumb if they can't get their stuff together. 

Oh man... i didn't know it was that high up on the F American's list. Whatever they have coming there way is their own making. The one thing is however, if i could pick one person to get paid the best it would be doctors. I don't mind them making bank bc they are working to save lives. That deserves rich rewards. But... come on, don't take advantage of that kindness. Because taking advantage is exactly what they are doing in the health care industry as a whole. They know one day they won't be able to... so, charge as much as you can until that day. That is unfortunately human greed and nature.   

Your account is closed too? I have a lot of saved work on DDO i want to still have access to... i hope they get it back up again. I've been loyal to that site so it will make me pretty mad if they don't get our accounts working again. 

I get it. I'm really not for destroying competition that leads to so much innovation. But someone needs to get them to simmer down with the ridiculous costs to have healthcare. It is being abused as is resulting in us being screwed. If they can't fix it themselves... then i want someone to step in. If that has to be government; i'm for it. If it is more competition; i'm for it. I am just skeptical that competition can do it. Leaving it in the private companies hands is proving to be ineffective in reducing our healthcare costs. That is why i think more government involvement seems inevitable. I just really hope it can be done right. I feel if we let government also be a competitor in the industry... that might work. People that just can't afford it are covered. And, people that want extra perks can pay for it. It seems like a win win if done right.     

Wtf... my account is closed. This actually sorta makes me mad. 

:"that 1 in 900 stat is for canada. most other countries have even fewer people coming over for healthcare." 

That number makes sense since it is either a long drive or expensive airplane ride. The point is people come here for better care in general. My uncle is a neurologist, my aunt is a dentist, my cousin is a surgeon, my other cousin is a dermatologist ... okay, 90% of my family is in healthcare. Every one of them has had a patient from overseas and there reason was it is better care here than there. 

It is a fact that America is the leading country in medical innovation. We should strive to keep it that way. But, they should also strive to not screw over the American public. So, some government involvement is inevitable in my opinion, but UHC i see as a failure if implemented without other fail safes.  

I don't know... it will just create new jobs and organizations which might not be a bad thing. However, i don't want a lot of government involvement. There just needs to be a little nudge from someone to correct the healthcare industry. I don't know if they can do it on there own. If they can, then we should try that but it's just not happening. I am afraid they are too set in their ways and prices. They are making a ton load of money. Giving that up, even a bit, won't happen easy. That is why i can't see a way around "some" government involvement. 

I'm sorta on Debate Island. Do you have the same username there? 

I think you have a point. But, personally.. i am a contradiction to that. I was atheist until a couple profound experiences have changed my views. I am far from religious... but, bc of these experiences, i have imagined a spiritual platform that can explain them. I became spiritual due to experience(s). I doubt i am the only one too. But i get what you are saying too... if people are religious minded they will probably have more experiences or prone to them. However, in the very beginning when no one was religious or had a spiritual view... i imagine spiritual experiences are what started the speculations.

It depends how you define it. Medicare for all controlled only by the government would be a complete failure. However, a mix of government and private would likely fair much better. I say let there be more competition and also allow government to compete as well. Then you can start making some changes. And btw, Canadians come here bc we do have better medical services. Actually, bc of our system now... America is the leader in medical innovations. That is why a tax funded system wouldn't be good without private competition... it isn't worth it to halt innovation imho.  

A lot of people from those countries you listed come to America to get better care. The thing about comparing those countries to ours is that you are comparing countries with lower populations and homogeneous populations. They have a higher trust society than America. Here, it is very likely people will abuse a free health care system. Besides that, America is the leader in medical innovation. Switching over the UHC will throw a big wrench in that. We are the leading country in all the new medical discoveries we provide for everyone else. Is halting innovation worth it? Plus, right now, we have a system in place for people that don't have health care. There are free clinics, you can't get turned away by the ER, volunteer clinics, etc. People already have means to get health care if they really need it. Why do i have to pay more taxes for people to get health care when they already can do it themselves...

The only way i can see it maybe working is if we allow 1) more competition; and 2) to allow government to be among the competition. I don't see a way around not having government get involved bc our current system is broken. I don't think merely letting them compete without government involvement would work. But... i def. don't see having government control it all would work either. I think that would be a disaster to be honest.

The formation/invention of religion/spirituality i'm saying came from spiritual experiences. The propagation of it came by luck and conquest. The Christian faith got lucky that it was the main religion of an army that was very powerful with wide ranging reach. The spreading of religion is something different. 

The creation of religion/spirituality is something different. The creation of it is from spiritual experiences. In all of its forms and definitions btw... not just seeing spirits or ghosts; although that would really make one think. But also things like seeing flowers bloom and the sun getting blocked out by the sun when one is asking/thinking for some relief from the heat... these also count as spiritual experiences, which is probably why animism is among the first type of spiritual beliefs.

Sure... i am not talking about how many people are religious. But spirituality isn't just dying off for a reason. People experience it, therefore wonder about it. I am talking about how it was made... and/or why people thought up these stories. Spiritual experiences are a big part of that. And as much as other's hate it... it is evidence. 

The reasons are multifaceted. There isn't just one reason we can point to. I'm sure hard lives had to do with it. But, everyone keeps forgetting the most important. Spiritual experiences. Now, most could be delusion or a mind trick... but, i am sure this was among the main reasons humanity started to wonder. Imagine... everything that would happen that we know now to be conformation bias, etc., to earlier humans would be amazing. "I heard a voice say we will win the war"... well, who was the voice? From there, humans started defining gods, etc., to explain these phenomena. Accordingly, i am pretty sure spiritual experiences is one of the main reason people invented religions and spiritual stories. 

First of all, i have never found Occam's razor being an appropriate approach to something such as life. It is too big of a scale to just say that. With that said, i am not arguing for if the universe was created or not. My main spiritual belief says just like you are saying... sure, the universe was caused by the same logic. What i am saying is it is just as conceivable that a god could manifest, just as you say our universe did, given those causes. 

The main part of the question when people ask who created god is that there isn't a cause, or that there isn't an answer... that's what i disagree with bc there most certainly is an answer to what the cause could be. So, just as likely that worlds, universes, etc. can manifest given enough time, space, etc. I do not see why a mind such as one like a gods couldn't also manifest. 

This view is more inline with my personal main spiritual belief that we are immortal consciousness manifested as a mortal to experience. But, i can see the logic working for various other types of gods, or at the very least it provides an answer to the question. Most people think they have stumped me when they ask ... "well, who created god... muhaha, got you" .. not  ;P 

Since i can imagine a spiritual platform where nothing was designed... i really don't know what to think of this world being designed. It seems more likely to me that humans are an incorporeal force that manifest life into a platform that is already there. So it is conceivable to imagine a spiritual platform that doesn't say all this is created. But then, there could also be a god that created all this or these incorporeal sources have a way to create... i'm really ambivalent on this. I can see it happening both ways. 

But... the level of difficulty seen in life does make me think i may be wrong. Maybe these sources i think of have a way to mess with the laws of a reality before manifesting into that reality. Which would mean we should be able to see signs of design at a quantum level. Which one could say you can. 

**P.s. Isn't this platform much better than D.I.? That site seems so cluttered. It's hard to find comments with everyone. Nice to see you here n.t.l. 

That could be... or, humans ability to imagine something might be deeper. We are after all the only creatures with the capacity to imagine other worlds. Could it be bc we have witnessed these other worlds? Maybe... i think so. 

Nice. The way i look at it is actually best suited to explain gods such as the ones you worship. That is why i have always been more of a polytheist than theist when it comes to it... those gods make more sense. 

As you know, i like it where the universe is infinite which is the platform that gives rise to intelligence. However, i can't say that consciousness isn't infinite which gave rise to the universe(s). Ultimately, we lead to similar implications with either or being right. 

I'll check out that link in a little when i have some time. They way you describe it... could be true. I can't say it can't... it's logical. 

I guess it does depend on a god. The logic above is just an answer to how it could be possible and/or the cause of some type of immortal intelligence. Gods could fall under that... i actually think it is more in line with polytheism than monotheism. Bc the one god religions say that there god has no cause and has always been infinitely what it is and all the "Omnis." With my logic, said god would still have to evolve and grow. 

I am just wondering if the logic of time, space, and energy being the "cause" could extend to these gods as well. When one asks who cause god? Let's say the Christian god... would it not be logical to say "time, space and energy"?  

I have always found this to be the worst argument atheists make in opposition to god. It has a simple answer in my opinion. Time, space, energy, etc., that are the cause of this god's manifestation. I know others say no time, etc... but, i will use the platform i find most logical. If these "forces" are eternal, or infinite... then, all it would take is a certain arrangement of them to manifest an incorporeal intelligence which then evolves and become something like a god. 

Time and space being infinite is the platform. Energy, etc. (i say etc bc there can be other material that we aren't aware of); this arranges in such a way to create a mind. The mind is born and has been evolving and growing for eons. Therefore, all of this being the cause to this immortal consciousness and/or gods' manifestation. 

I don't think it is far fetched for me to imagine such a platform since from what it looks like... there is infinite space and time. If that isn't true, then i am wrong... however, i don't think anyone can argue against it and furthermore, argue that it isn't what most likely is going on. Therefore, i think my conjecture is the best answer to who created god... time, space, energy... the infinite platforms being the cause of this "minds" manifestation. You can extend this type of logic to any god.    

Well not all universes since it doesn't exist in ours. If we are going with my belief, there is only as many as someone's choice to become one. If no one is willing to become the FSM, then it doesn't exist. There is also "accidental manifestation" and/or "unconscious manifestation" where it could happen according to my belief... so that would also be a factor. Just make sure the FSM isn't the last thing on your mind before you die. Lol. 

What is multimeter hypothesis? Did you mean multiverse? 

Mine is a combination of the multiverse hypothesis and fictional realism. Therefore, everything we have thought of as fiction could exist in one of these universes. 

Funny thing is... in my belief, even the FSM "could" be real. It all hinges on if there is a person "willing" to become the FMS. If there are people willing to manifest as such a creature... then, if i stay consistent with what i believe... then the FSM is out there, somewhere, too. 

I would say that they are wrong. It is in human nature to wonder about spirituality. It's a part of us as much as they want to deny it. For instance, i may not have a common belief, but my belief hinges on death. In order for me to have what i hope for i must die. This belief has made me look forward to death, in a way, which helps in not fearing death but celebrating it. Also, it helps in building myself in reality. For my belief says that i cannot become what i am not. Therefore, say i want to be a mage with a good heart helping out the society i am in by using my powers for good. Well, i cannot become that if i am not a good person that tries to help people in this reality. All of that, plus more, is a positive of having beliefs. 

Even a lack of belief is still a spiritual quest. Atheists have come to terms with that which helps them in its own way through life. So... i think just having a belief is a positive. You search everything about yourself in the journey... which is always a good thing to come to terms with who you are and the subsequent confidence you gain in knowing. 

When it is bad is when it divides us. All together, religion can also be poison. That is why i don't like religion overall, or more specifically, give any credit that any one is the absolute truth. I'm an Omnist in the sense that i believe every faith is trying to define the ultimate spiritual reality... but, no one knows it by itself. The more people come to this type of realization of spirituality i think the better, personally. Bc then you can critique what isn't love, what isn't hope, and realize that is a flaw. 

But overall, i think religion and spirituality is a positive. Most people are smart enough to know what is good and bad. The problem is that people with darker intent can misconstrue religious text to justify their hate... so in that sense religion is bad. However, i think people will find a way to justify their evil anyways... which is why i don't fully blame it on religion.  

Yes, humans need a god story or a spiritual belief. It helps with life and it helps with motivations to go through life. Then there are the people with lower iq's and bad impulse control. These humans need a threat of punishment either through religion or law to keep them from going wild. It's better more than not to have spiritual beliefs. 

I am liking the layout here. Simple which is best. Anyways, i'm a fictional realist... or at least, that is the closest philosophy i can find that can describe my beliefs.  

Side notes: I will be on debate island mainly by the looks of it. I wish this had more users bc i am liking it, but if you guys want to catch me i will sorta be there... i am hating the layout but there are some things that are cool. Either that or a wait for the dead DDO to become undead.