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@linate
since you can't or won't read what i wrote or your own link, i will say it again. the definition of a mass shooting is over four people killed, not including the gunman. the example you gave shows a man killing his wife and three kids, and then himself.
Lol it's 4 "or more" but the hilarious thing is now you care what the definition is... when the news says we have a mass shooting every day and you use that as an argument... ohhh my, then you don't care about the definition do you. The news is calling the video game incident a mass shooting... so what is it? Technically... if that is the news' definition of mass shooting... they are majorly lying about Australia since there was more than 1 by "their" definition. But, even by FBI standards Australia had a mass shooting. You are just letting the MSM brainwash you, sad.
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@ravensjt
I was trying to make a point. I'm not actually that racist. The point is we would probably do a lot better if we looked and cured the symptoms... not focus so darn much on the tool. One symptom is that we don't enforce our current laws. What is one more law to the thousands of gun laws we already have? How will it make a difference? There is zero proposed gun laws that would have stopped any of these shootings. Sure, i'll concede they can help... but no were near the help focusing on the actual problems will do. Everything that will have the most profound effect on gun violence is non-gun control laws.
So yes... maybe if we focused on the poverty in urban cities... that would be more productive than banning a non-existent "assault rifle" ... Gun control is mainly for political votes and is just as useless as deporting millions of black Americans to fix a problem. That is what gun control sounds like to me. Just as dumb as my comment. But my comment will at least bring down gun violence by 70% lol.
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FBI gun violence report published June 2015 showed that, excluding suicides, 68% of ALL gun-related crimes where carried out by black males between the ages of 14 and 26. If you want to make the biggest impact to overall gun crime, deport those men.
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@linate
If you'd rather talk about mass shootings... wait, how can i when you are already lying. There were zero mass shootings after 1996? Are you sure about that?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I agree with citizens must come first. It is not only logical but required to have an overall happy society. That is why i am also kinda for war. If these people pouring over here can't fix their own country than we should at least try. Everyone deserves to be free and live happily. Basically, there should be more places like America that people aspire to come to in order to live a prosperous and happy life. It shouldn't just be here... or more accurately, western countries. It's something we must fight for the world to have. Of course i have a lot of caveats to this, like fighting this war with technology instead of death, but it must be fought. But i'm getting off topic, lol. I most definitely think we must do more in regards to mental health. It may not fix anything absolutely, but it will help.
I'm centrist bc i believe both sides have faults. With that said, the radical left is much more a nuisance at the moment. There is a lot coming from the left that i am really getting annoyed with... especially having to do with censorship due to SJW b.s. But you are right that things are working out in terms of violent crimes. I think that also has a lot to do with prison sentences. For if they are locked up they can't hurt society. I would like to see more of that, but not until we can figure out our prison system. There really are people that shouldn't be in prison, mainly non-violent offenders. That not only balloons are prison population, it takes focus off of who really needs to be in prison.
When it comes to societal issue such as winners/losers... we should at least try to make as may winners as possible, but i do agree that the cold hard fact that you can lose should be taught/enforced. I really think there should be a punishment law where parents won't get in trouble for punishing their kids with "reasonable force." I was scared of my parents... which i think is why i grew up respectful and also new how it felt to not win... even if i thought i was right. I don't know studies going against this, but anecdotally it worked out for me and others i know that had harsher parents. Plus, i think the studies are muddied by parents that actually hurt their kids. I wonder how it would look with a reasonable punishment force from parents. These kids think they can get away with anything... a kid on my street brings up sue this or that all the time. I just want to smack him on the head and be like sue that. lol. He's a little bully and his parents laugh about it. I'm afraid for his future bc someone won't be laughing. Kids need to know this consequence and it starts at home.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I don't think it is so much a low priority but people just have no clue what to do. That is why they blame the object so quickly... it's easy. However, i agree blaming the object will do nothing bc it would be a really bad idea and/or a net negative to ban weapons. So.. that will never happen so what are we stuck with? Trying to figure out an impossible problem. But you are also right in pointing out the problem isn't being fixed. I wouldn't say it is due to low priority. I would say it is due to idiotic arguments bw two parties.
That is a problem in general with our society. Everyone is truly working towards a centrist type solution... however, the two opposing parties take eons to get to the center bc they bicker incessantly. And it's not only the arguments either that slows progress but the hate. If you found yourself being cussed at, others saying you are dumb, an idiot, etc... and then that person turned around and asked you for help... what would you do? You would be like... F-off. I am not doing something that will help you. That is our reality in a nutshell. Why would the president pass any helpful law that would make the side calling him an idiot all day happy? It's not being able to be amicable that is killing our country slowly.
In regards to your Australia comment... just tell me what they did.
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@vagabond
That's not true. I always say i am speculating, this is my idea, this is what i think... i have never once claimed i know anything for certain. Actually, my spiritual belief requires that i don't know it for certain. The best i would say is that i suspect it more than not.
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@Castin
I agree that it's amazing human intelligence came to exist in this universe. But why do you think reality is infinite? Our study of the universe seems to suggest that it had a beginning and it will have an end.I may have more questions later.
What we know scientifically is that "our" space-time had a beginning and i don't refute that. It seems to be the best model but it says nothing about before. Before we could have been in another universe and a star died "big bang" created a black hole sucking everything in "inflation" "expansion" etc... that could very well be the case... or dozens of other hypothesis like string theory.
I believe it bc i prefer the paradox of it never ending is much more logical than an end. It's either limited or unlimited. If it is unlimited it is space that goes on forever. Within this space you may have different laws here and there, different forms of energy, time etc... it just goes on forever. The biggest problem i can see with infinite is infinite regress which i'll get back to. Then, we have limited. If it is limited there is a boundary. What does this boundary look like? How long does the boundary go on for? What is beyond the Boundary? It makes less sense that space goes on and hits a wall and then that wall goes on forever?... do you see what i mean? Imho, it's much less logical.
Infinite regress problem is interesting. Saying if we have infinite series we will never get to today. However, intelligence is real. An intelligent agent that can manifest as a finite agent is one of the only things i can think of that beats the infinite regress problem. Bc we can choose where to manifest and where we do we have a finite life and move on. Basically, we pick the points on this never ending train making it that we can reach any point even if they go on forever, for we will experience the infinite set by being finite. So intelligence beats infinite regress if it is a source as i suspect.
In conclusion, i have answers for the infinite universe theory... i wouldn't have any answers but more questions if it is limited. So i suspect more than not we live in an infinite platform and not finite.
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@vagabond
You claim there is as much proof for spirituality as there is for something before the big bang.There is no evidence for anything before the big bang therefore there is no evidence for spirituality.
I wouldn't use the word evidence for i think there is evidence of both even if it is crap type evidence. But, yeah... there is no proof for either so we are just left to speculate.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I don't know what that reason or fix could be... personally. At least in our times. Maybe in the future we will have a pill that fixes mental illness, or in these case...psychopathic tendencies. But today.. we are far from that. It is just a fact of our reality right now that there are others that want to cause pain and destruction. The only way to fight it would be to fight them.
Maybe if we make our mental health system better it can help, but i'm sure it will be just a little bandage type help. So i don't know how much we can work towards fixing this. Bc people lack self control due to brain chemistry. The vast majority would have just let it go... but this specific individual not only couldn't.. he was also violent. This isn't something we can fix anytime soon. I'm a newb when it comes to medicine but i would bet we are far off being to help these people other than lock them up in prison or a mental ward.
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@Imabench
I use to play Counter Strike semi-professionally and a guy that lost the tournament i was at stabbed one guy right in the neck. I thought to myself, "thank god i lost." He stabbed the sniper... i snipe o_o
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@Nd24007
By definition... this isn't a "mass shooting." You need to have at least 4 deaths, not including the suspect, for it to be categorized as a mass shooting. We have only 2 deaths excluding the suspect here. Why is it important? Bc if you use the wrong definitions the media will surely abuse the data to skew it for their own agendas.
In any case, this sucks. I watched a video of the footage with only sound and it sounded scary as hell. You can hear the fear in everyone's voice. With that said, i don't know of any purposed gun law that would have stopped this. The only thing that can stop these events, or damper their effect, is another person there with a gun willing to put his/her life on the line to save others.
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@Castin
In a metaphysical sense, it is the only thing that makes sense to me. I follow an "if" rabbit hole. For me, i am coming at it from both experiences and observations... so, i have come to the conclusion it is the best platform that can explain metaphysical questions. The first "if" starts out with infinity. If we live in such a reality where infinity is the platform, i don't see why everything isn't possible. Think about it, our universe created intelligence. Our universe came into existences and after so much time of evolving there is a planet know that has conscious beings. Furthermore, it has created a level of intelligence that can also create, imagine, etc. I find this type of intelligence "human intelligence" to be mind bendingly amazing. Why? bc i also believe the platform is infinite. And for intelligence to exist in general blows my mind in regards to the implications of what it has the potential to be in an infinite setting.
Then i keep going, well... what would it look like in this infinite setting? I don't see why a mind only needs a brain. That is our world and our world is such a speck to everything. So then, can an infinite setting create a consciousness within the setting that is also infinite? I don't see why it couldn't. There are many ways one can think of it could happen. An entire universe can arrange in some way, in some other universe, that creates a universal mind and poof... we have a universal consciousness. Then, there can be other ways that just energy arranges and creates an intelligence... and, poof we have an incorporeal infinite intelligence. Why not? If we truly live in an endless reality i don't see why it isn't not only possible but highly probable especially bc intelligence exists.
After that i follow down to trying to define it. This part is kinda hard. Bc by definition, a finite consciousness has no chance in figuring out an infinite consciousness. So, i don't try to define the infinite consciousness too much although i have had an experience feeling this infinite type. It is an experience most people try to have calling it "enlightenment" or whatever... but i wasn't trying to have it, i just accidentally did. When i felt this infinite reality, all i remember is wanting to leave it. Bc i felt all knowing... i remember feeling like i knew everything. My start and why i am here, to the ending. Every ending. I remember that was really scary bc it felt like i was nothing. So, i can kinda define it to that degree. That knowing everything felt like none-existence. What i took from this experience is that being finite and existing for a short experience would actually be a logical creation of an immortal intelligence to "experience" what it already knows.
Now some people think this infinite intelligence is what started everything, and some believe that it was a byproduct of an infinite platform. I don't know, either way could make sense. The reason i believe we have higher selves is bc i believe with are all one individual created within this infinite intelligence. This is another part where i try to define it, so i may be way off. I just feel that if everything is happening within this infinite intelligence ("i call source btw" ), then being socially and individuals makes most sense. I am basically anthropomorphizing here. If we are individuals here, and it seems every experience we can imagine involves some sort of individual experiencing it... it is logical that inside the source we have all individualized to experience.
This goes back to being infinite and omniscience isn't truly existing. In that state, you are just a part of this source. To experience you need to be an individual. So, i think we all have higher selves that are our forms to experience. Your personality will manifest itself over and over in different experiences to fill the role/character that the experience or reality needs. And if you choose not to... you remain within the infinite mind. However, i sorta generalize that now one will want to simply remain as the source.
The last things is that this method explains everything religion can't, and spiritual experiences... mine and others. For, it makes no sense why any "other" would be hanging out in the sky doing these little sign to me... wouldn't it have something better to do? But, it makes sense if it is me. I am the one giving myself these spiritual experiences to guide and alter who i need to be here. I've already written a lot so i will stop. It is a very long hypothesis. I have basically tried to shorten it by skipping a lot of points so if your curious just ask me questions to clarify anything i left out or skipped over.
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@Castin
Oh i see what you are saying. Maybe. However, i highly doubt it was a "ghost" ... i don't believe in ghosts. I believe we have higher selves that is a part of an infinite consciousness/intelligence. Therefore, i believe it was his higher self... or mine/my friends. Since all of my spiritual experiences have happened before tragic events... i am speculating that in those moments one may be closer to their higher selves and possible that is what allows these events to happen. I believe the idea of a ghost is silly. But the idea that you have ultimate power in a higher self form that can, at times, interact with this world.. makes a whole lot more sense in a metaphysical sense. And, if it is your higher self... then it also makes sense it can communicate its power or being there through silly things such as moving objects, sounds or other.
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@Castin
I believe a polytheist view is more likely than a theistic view... however with caveats. We very well can all be from "one" infinite intelligence/consciousness ("source"). I think within this source entity, we split into multiple separate entities. I just heard a cool analogy to visualize this. Imagine an infinite sandbox... and/or an infinite stretch of sand. Now, one can make any shape within this sand. You can create a castle, tree, etc... whatever. But imagine the sandbox without any visible shapes. Everything still exists right? You don't have to make any shapes within the sandbox for these shapes to already be there. We as finite beings need to visualize these shapes for them to exist. But, in the infinite sand... everything already exists. The sand can be analogous to this source. Within this source is every type of entity you can think of and more.
Accordingly, i believe in both mono/polytheism. When we are the source, we are all of the Omni's. We know everything and are everything all at once. However, that isn't a preferable existence. For... what more can you have when you have everything and know every ending... you are basically nothing in this source state. Therefore, i believe we have socialized and individualized within this source state. This would be more inline with multiple gods and/or sources. in conclusion, i basically think both are a part of the truth.
Plus... we see multiple people in life. There being multiple gods at least observationally makes more sense too.
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@Castin
Don't know what you mean.. What do you mean "he acted like the 'ghosts' did his bidding." Who are we talking about?
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@Castin
Yep i was looking at their hands to make sure it wasn't a trick. I didn't see either of them moving their hands in anyway that would be circular. But that could be something i missed and it was a trick. But my friend that is alive would have told me if they were tricking me by now. In any case, that is another natural explanation. But... for him to have that set up just for us in a random meet up moment... again, another natural explanation that i feel doesn't live up to being the clear cause.
Every spiritual experience i have had has been associate with a really bad or tragic event. I wonder if these experiences are a way of warning us about an impending bad event. I've also thought maybe it's my minds way of coping. But, this one out of like 3 others, is a shared experience... thankfully, or else i would have thought i am insane by now since i have had more than a dozen experiences. Not all as profound as this one but still... i really don't know why me.
And thanks. He was more my other friend's friend, but it is still sad he passed away. He was a really down to earth dude.
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@Castin
That could be the case. I wanted to go back and try it again but the kid died... which made it even more spooky. However, when i was doing it... that partly was why i told him to tell it to stop and then to spin left. I thought if there is something natural at play spinning it right... stopping it and then going left should be impossible. So i don't see if magnetism is at play how it can stop and then go left. Especially since it was all on command.
The only natural explanation i can think of is that i subconsciously spun it myself. But then i run into the problem of how since my hands and wrist weren't moving. Even when i tried recreating it... i swear i held it at home for like 30 minutes and the only way i could get the big spin was to physically spin it. So... i have no clue.
I sorta had another spiritual experience where someone had an experience and died the next day. I thought maybe when you are close to your death, you are more susceptible to spiritual experiences. It's a big question mark either way.
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@Castin
Opps i meant thumb, index and middle fingers.
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@Castin
I was holding my hands steady sitting down on a bed. It was a thin chained necklace... probably not real metal but some kind of fake metal and it had a ring on it. So the ring was the weight and the chain itself was probably pretty much as light as a string (just slightly had any weight to it). I had one of my hands around my wrist while i pinched the necklace with my thumb, ring finger and middle finger. I wasn't spinning it at all. My hands were static. I've tried to recreate it but what i noticed is the only way to get it to spin the way it did is for my wrist to move. My wrist was still when it was happening. That's why the only natural explanation i can think of isn't really convincing. Since both my friends were yelling spin it... i thought maybe i subconsciously spun it due to their influence somehow. But, my wrist would have had to move for it to spin as much as it did, and my wrist was static so i have no clue how it happened.
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@Castin
Clockwise / Counterclockwise right/left spins. The part that was craziest to me was when the spin would reach its peak i could feel the chain of the necklace just about to hit on my nails. Something that would have only been possible if i had physically spun it. Anyways that gives you an idea of the spin's circumference too.
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@Castin
Yep, unfortunately i have. It isn't a good thing bc things like this play with your mind years later. It's kinda sad that my spiritual experiences are the strongest memories i have retained throughout the years. I shared one of my moving objects with Smithereens so i will just copy and paste it in case you are curious. I have had two other experiences that involve sounds but this one is the most profound in my opinion. You can ask my critical questions of it too if you want... i've thought of everything from unconsciously moving it to a group hallucination... but, none of these are true for i know i didn't move my hand and i know i don't hallucinate.
Okay second experience which is a shorter story thankfully, my hands are tired i've been typing all day. I went with a friend to one of his friends houses. The house was thrashed, everything everywhere, some holes in the walls, so i jokingly told the guy, "hey is your house haunted or something." As soon as i said that his eye's lit up. He said, "how did you know." I said know what? That my house is haunted. Then i started teasing him, bc i am naturally skeptical. This happened before the previous one btw... i would have been less skeptical if that had happened first. But at this point, i really didn't believe in spirit stuff. So i kept teasing.He started to share some of the "ghost" stories in his house. They were pretty profound. Things like his stuff being thrown. His clothing thrashing around by itself. Stuff like that. He thought whatever the "ghost" was is evil and "out to get him." At that point i thought, well if it can do all that, it should be able to spin my necklace. So i took off my necklace and i told him... hey, if you are serious tell it to spin my necklace. He agreed. This is the crazy part. I told him to wait. My mind was all scientific at this point. I said wait so i can watch the natural spin. I held my arms on my knees, got comfortable, used my other hand for more stabilization and said okay... i'm ready. He started yelling "spin it, spin it" The light right spin turned into a medium spin, to a hard right spin... i still didn't believe and said no way... tell it to stop it. He yelled to stop it, the right spin slowed, and came to a stop... i still didn't believe... i thought the natural spin is right, the hard spin was right... it should be impossible for it to go left, so i said tell it to spin left... he asked and so did we receive. It literally stopped the small right spin, started spinning left, to a hard left spin. I dropped the necklace at that point freaked the hell out.The thing with this one is i can't even say coincidence. I am lost on this one. I've tried to replicate it and the only way it could have spun as hard as it did from me holding it was that i spun it. Even if it was subconscious... i had to spin it, moving my hands around... my hands were still. So... this sorta brought me over to the dark side... especially since a week later he died of a drug overdose.. haunting the experience even more.
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@vagabond
You're talking about imagination not reality.
No i am not. Two of the experiences i've had were with others there to witness it. One of them stuff moving, one of them sounds. If all my experiences were only me witnessing them i would question my sanity. But, that isn't the case. You can believe what you want. It won't change the reality that i have a different set of evidence presented to me than you do. I can only comment on what i know, and what i know is that i have witnessed weird phenomena... so have countless other people therefore i would say they count as evidence.
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@vagabond
I don't know but i have seen some crazy things that shouldn't have been possible. I don't know how. I've always thought my higher power can only effect this world through me, but i've seen things move on their own, and have heard sounds consistent with things like footsteps... so i wonder. Maybe it has something to do with virtual particles or something small that we can't see. Or, maybe even a reality that is right next to us but invisible to us. The answer should be that none of us have a clue... but, since i am not alone in experiencing weird stuff, there is enough evidence to at the very least suspect there are aspects of reality we still have no clue about.
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@ravensjt
It makes perfect sense because it's a culture that he promoted and endorsed and NOT ironically that same lifestyle was how his life ended
He never promoted a specific culture. Like i said, rap can be taken to mean anything. There isn't one thing it points to... which is what you don't understand since i am sure you don't listen to it. Hip hop lyrics are very complex and most the time have to do with systemic failures. Of course, about drugs and girls is another theme. But, the most respected lyrics talk about corrupt people and/or government. The most deep lyrics are self help and motivational. Rap, as a whole, doesn't condone or promote any kind of violent culture.
... who listen's to rap is the question. Black people mainly listen to rap, or in larger numbers than any other genre. And, black people have high rates of violent crime. Therefore, of course more violent crime happens while someone is listening to rap. It has nothing to do with the music. This is what you aren't getting. It has to do with the people listening to the music. It's like saying classical music leads to serial killers. It's none sense and ignorant thinking.
The question is why is there more violent crime in the black communities. The answer to the question has nothing or very little to do with the music they listen to.
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@Imabench
Yeah that was it... but i can't remember what he said before he died. I remember it had to do with seeing the girl like an angel. Whatever he said is what hit me.
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@ravensjt
XXXtentacion is an example of whom I reference when I make my point.Black Gangsta Rapper who was murdered by another Black Youth.If Whites (or whomever) have Culturally Appropriated Rap then that by no means makes them the target audience.
Just bc he was killed by a black makes the music something that leads to blacks killing blacks? That's your logic? That makes no sense. He was killed by another black bc a gangster was jealous or something... it has little to do with his music. The guy could have listened to death metal... you have no clue what they listened to. Plus, bringing up death metal... that is "white guy music." There are lines like "it's 3am and my mouth tastes like the corpse of every pregnant teen." Do you see people killing bc of that? No. Actually, black, death, hardcore, etc. metal is 10 times as violent as hip hop is. So, if you are going to link music to others killing others... you are surely making a mistake. Black on black crime is societal... has little to do with music.
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@ravensjt
This mentions his "boys" dying... which can be any race. Then, it focuses on suicide and giving up. Therefore, the darkness could be pointed at any race. Interestingly, although this song is about death and sad... it saves many people from going forward with their dark intentions. It may lead to some people giving up, but majority of the time... music does the opposite effect to people than what it is saying.
Then there is this. This video perfectly portray's what this music does. What is in one's mind. It makes you feel invincible... like you can conquer anyone or anything. Therefore, the music isn't directed only at black people... it is directed at the world. It pumps you up. The violence isn't only directed one way... it is directed to all.
Therefore, i don't get what you mean that it is directed at black people. There "isn't a lot"... or is "black death" the most popular. If there are any songs directly telling one to kill blacks ... it would be a fringe song that no one listens to. The death is aimed at everyone which is why i, and others, love it.
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@secularmerlin
If this being cannot move the object in all its possible forms tgen there is something it cannot do.
I see what you are saying. "Can god create a rock that he/she can't move in all its forms and power." The answer can still be yes, though. There will just be a lump of rock nothing will be able to move lol.
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Since god is the one experiencing these events i don't see the paradox. God can do anything. Therefore, god can turn into a man and not be able to pick up the rock and revert back to "God" and be able to pick up the rock. So the answer is yes. It can be both limited and unlimited if god can do anything. I don't get the contradiction. Even if the question was, "can god create a rock he can never lift" the answer would be "yes" since he can turn into a man and not be able to ever lift it. It depends on what form god is observing through and since he is omnipotent he can observe as a human and as a god. So i don't see the paradox.
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@linate
i think if a person wanted to 'disprove' God, it would be a stronger argument to argue my 'unlimited paradox' that i mentioned in the philosophy forum, and briefly here. "if god is unlimited can he limit himself?" i dont know how you can get out of that paradox. as was said, you might have to say "God is maximally powerful".
I don't see the paradox. If god can do anything... all he has to do is turn into a "human" and be limited, i.e. not be able to lift a heavy rock, and revert back into "god" his ultimate form and be able to lift the rock. If one can do anything in this manner... they can just do it. It is the observer lifting the rock. His state of observation could be through a human vessel that is limited or his god form and do anything. So the answer to the OP is yes... god can limit and be unlimited if he is omni. I just don't understand where the paradox is.
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@Stronn
Not really. If god is all powerful he can make himself into a man and "not" be able to lift the rock and revert back into god and pick the rock up easy. So yeah... he can make a rock he can't lift and lift. I don't see the contradiction.
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@vagabond
If you use the word "proven" i agree - "evidenced" i would not agree.
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@vagabond
I don't deny a spiritual reality could exist, so i don't get what you mean by denial.
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@Beelzedad
You have a beef with the idea... as simple as that. For there are many ideas when it comes to spirituality. Just like there are many ideas in science that haven't been proven. You just don't like spirituality. That's not my problem.At spiritual conclusion would have to first exist before I could have a beef with it. That's like saying I have a beef with pixie dust.
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@Beelzedad
Our current understanding is zero? Lol... now who is the one stuck in their imagination and bias'. I have zero information to form my conclusion... again no, i have specific spiritual experiences i have witnessed, so again... not zero... You just sound like you have a beef with any kind of spiritual conclusions... and guess what... you have no clue.
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@MagicAintReal
Btw... i just read my reply to you and noticed a ton of grammatical mistakes. I hope you can follow and get the gist of it. I was in a rush, sorry.
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@Beelzedad
There is only one reality that we all share. If you have created something from your imagination. it isn't reality.
Sure buddy. Nothing from another's imagination has ever become reality. Right? Or, do you mean it from the most literal sense. Then, without sarcasm, i believe what you are saying... my imagination has nothing to do with objective reality. "There is only one reality" ... objectively again, i agree, in the most literal sense there is only one reality we all share that is apparent.
How the Fk do you know if there are other realities or if there isn't? I'm real curious how you are so certain? Bc if you are arguing against my overall belief that there are more realities than we know... you are arguing against an opinion i have formed from anecdotal experience, hypothesis, and/or fringe hypothesis. Yet, it seems like i am the only one that can concede either or could be true. Bc of experience, i am a bit bias, but not bias enough to say i am certain. All i can say is that i am more confident than not there is a "spiritual" reality. I am only trying to define what that can be from our current understandings. I may be completely wrong, or i might be on to something... i don't know.
You are replying to me in the most literal sense. How i can i disagree to that. I can't disagree to our current understandings. However, you are not considering anything beyond that. A lack of imagination is just as pathetic as a confident imagination. I still don't know where you fall... but it seems like it is the lack of imagination part. But i will reserve that surety until i am certain.
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@Beelzedad
I'm afraid your views don't agree with reality, I can't agree with them if they exist only in your imagination.
It agree's with my reality, why would i care about yours? I only hope you are having a good time, and good thoughts... for, i am not a bitter human being and don't wish ill will on others. So, hopefully you have things that make sense to you.
In regards to "imagination" ... this dreadful idea of our thoughts. You are right. It's not like anything significant was ever created due to imagination. It's just a worthless byproduct of our minds... nothing good comes from it.
By the way.. you don't know my views. Hint hint.
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@Beelzedad
Yes, you were. That was my point.
Sure. Who cares. You don't have to believe my view. but when i talk about my view i believe it more than not for reasons. If you agree with these reason is up to you. I have never cared very much in effecting other people's logic. Actually my belief, overall, makes more sense if you don't believe it. All i know is that you don't know anymore than what are current science shows you. And our current science doesn't know... therefore, i get to presuppose my opinion. Like i said, if later i find out i am objectively wrong, i will drop my current belief.
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@Beelzedad
I will admit i have used my imagination to create the current spiritual platform i believe in but it hasn't been made only by imagination. I have anecdotal evidence of experiences that seemingly where spiritual in nature. My belief conforms to these experiences and my imagination. However, i believe our imaginations are equivalent to Thors power of thunder; it's our superpower. Therefore, i don't think we should dismiss ideas just bc we imagined them.While it's fine to use your imagination to imagine things, it's a fools errand to do so without using knowledge if a worldview is what you're trying to achieve. Space, time, energy are all phemonema that resulted from the Big Bang. You're putting the cart before the horse.
I never contested that our spacetime was created at the Big bang. Although there are theories against it... i feel the BB is the most viable theory. But, there is the iron clad hypothesis of anything before the big bang. I am simply presupposing that all of those "forces" have been around before the big bang, and our eternal. That is all that is needed for my specific spiritual belief to work out. Therefore, i am taking a leap of logic but subjectively i don't it's a bad leap to take. All we know is that "our" spacetime had a start. We have no idea what was before the BB. It simply isn't logical, to me, that time and space had a start, in general. It is much more logical that they have always existed. That's the science i believe anyways. You are free to believe whichever you like most, but don't pretend like you have definitive proof either way... i certainly am not.
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@MagicAintReal
I've explained a god theory and that's all... you are reading way too much into it. You keep asking why or how... i have no idea. You saying nothing points to spirituality i disagree with. I think there is sufficient anecdotal spiritual experiences to at the very least suspect. That is my own subjective opinion, you may think the spiritual experiences aren't worth it.. and that's your own right.
Sure energy, time, whatever is a god. If that is how you want to define it. God's god is time. I don't care if that is true. I will stick to that it is possible to have other forms of intelligence. I can't prove it, but i think there is. There is as much proof so spirituality as there is before the big bang. Both can you have ideas about but not know for sure.
Do i think multiverses are true? Yep. Again all of this is an opinion since there is no hard evidence... just hypothesis. Personal credulity fallacies? How can you have a fallacy when i am not debate either or. I am just saying all of that is more possible in my opinion, which is subjective to me.
Plus, you have basically explained my who'll op's point anyways. Time is god's god. I find saying what is the cause of a god to be a bad question bc sure... simply time could be its cause. I am not here to argue what this universe is and how time came up. "Our" spacetime had a beginning, sure. But you have no idea if there was time around before. So as you said, "If you can, you'll be the first."
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@MagicAintReal
If time, space, energy, etc. caused "this god's" manifestation, then 1. Why aren't time, space, energy, etc. god?2. Spacetime and energy had an origin, so why is god necessary here?
As a god, i mean an intelligent/conscious source. You can say the sun is god, sure, but that isn't what i mean. Sure, "our" spacetime had an orgin... but, we aren't even really sure about that. What of our universe is the result of another universe's black hole. The big bang being the stars death and our expansion being everything getting sucked into the black hole. I made that up, but i am sure there is a scientific theory on it and many other alternatives. Point being, we don't know. Even if i go with the origin that you are saying. It is "our spacetime" that had an origin, but we don't know if it was around before the big bang. I am presupposing that it has always been.
Yeah if there's no time then there's no temporal series of events like causation or creation.No time, no precedence, no determining the agent of causation.
I agree with this. I don't see how a god can exist without time... or anything for that matter.
Which they both are demonstrably not.
You are talking about 'our' spacetime... i am presupposing that there are multiverses and in that regard these infinite platforms.
Yeah, but if you've already got the forces and they're self-arranging, then why the god?You're just adding in god.
I am saying in an infinite setting that it is possible for other minds to manifest. I go as far as they had nothing to do with this universe creation. Sure, this universe self arranged and is what it is... but, life is the manifestation of an eternal type mind that can traverse these platforms. It is a spiritual hypothesis to how life manifests.
Like what?
I don't know. Maybe other forms of dark energy or matter... other particles. It isn't known to us. It could be an entire universe with reverse laws.
Why aren't the self arranging forces more godly than this god you arbitrarily manifested?
You are playing with the word god. In regards to what i am talking about here, i mean a thinking, conscious, intelligent, etc entity. Maybe in another universe energy can think, if so that counts... other than that, i am not talking about things like the sun being god.
Spacetime may expand infinitely however, it had a clear origin
Well interesting, we have one infinity here. I am presupposing that it has always been infinite. Before the big bang was another universe, or something. I don't think the big bang was the only event to have ever happened. I believe multiple universe, or infinite platforms, are the most likely truth. I don't know for sure... but i would put my money on it.
The mind is a construct of the human brain or at the very least a construct of neural substrates and neuroanatomical components.The mind is contingent on brains or the very least neuronal substrates.
First of all, if one day we create A.I. and further, self thinking A.I. ... a mind can also be formed by plastics and metals. I am just saying there are other minds. I highly doubt that we are the only minds that have ever existed.
To your last too points. In regards to my point here... the sun and other objects that can't think, etc... don't fit into my definition of "god(s)."
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@Castin
Cool, me too. I read your comment about creating another account and email... that was annoying so i thought i'd save you from doing it =)
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@Polytheist-Witch
Oh okay i see. Not only shamans... i think most of the fiction we imagine the author has lived... you know the rest of my belief. I asked you about the afterlife bc that is really all i care about when it comes to beliefs. It just happens the monotheistic versions of paradise happen to be what i would consider to be hell. That is why multiple planes is more appealing to me.
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@Polytheist-Witch
What do you mean by creatures? And why do you think animism was around before gods?I think this is why animism was around for a long time before gods. And why those "creatures" appear in shamanic travel.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Nice. Well... for me, i already know i will reincarnate into another mortal experience. But this time it will have magic and powers and be more exciting. That's for now however. I believe i will go where ever i am thinking of before i die. Could be a vampire reality, or if i am over that, a harry potter type reality... or something new i like before i die. To me, it all exists, so i basically see it as you do plus some extra's. I feel we are building our next character/reality everyday we are here.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Me too. One of my experiences that i don't share bc it has too much personal stuff in it was basically dreams that warned me about something specific. The dreams were reoccurring over years and got more specific as the event neared. It was pretty insane, especially since they stopped as soon as the event passed. My personal take on it is that the "spiritual" reality can interact with your dreams. Most the time, your dreams are nothing... but, sometimes, i believe my higher self messages me through dreams.
In your belief, what do you think happens to you in the afterlife?
I ask bc you believe these gods are all true. Does that mean there is a heaven and there is also Valhalla? But in either case where do you go?
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@Polytheist-Witch
That's something we have in common... i have always believed in a "spiritual" reality since i can remember. Not only that, as a kid, i was certain things like powers existed. This is without knowing anything about spirituality or religion. I use to imagine things i had never seen or had knowledge of... things like space warefare, etc., when i would play with my imagination. It was when i got a little older that i remember looking back and thinking... wooh, the things i was thinking were impossible for me to know. That plus when i was young i had 4 spiritual experiences that were impossible when i was older and looked back. As a kid, i thought of course they could happen bc of my confidence in spirituality. I don't use these 4 when i explain experiences bc they could have been dreams. I could swear they weren't... but, this is when i was 4 through 6 so who knows. When i got to middle/high school i started becoming atheist mainly bc of religion. I've never believed in organized religion. I've always seen the flaws clearly. So, religion pushed me away bc i wasn't smart enough at this point to think of alternatives. When one of these profound experiences happened is when i started thinking of a spiritual platform that can explain everything i've experienced. From there on... i'm at where i am at present. This is why i think spiritual experiences are one of the main reasons humanity has tried to define spirituality. Which tells me all of it is man-made, but that doesn't mean some of it isn't true... since all of it is an attempt to define something unseen that can intelligently interact with us.
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@Polytheist-Witch
All people, even if raised in a religion are atheist until they have an experience. They are just cultural believers until they see it for themselves.
I agree. But, i don't know if you read the 2 experiences i shared, but experiences like that give you no choice but to consider there might be something going on. Some people are swayed more easy... for instance an experience would be a mere revelation or something small. For me, it had to be as big as my experiences were. Even those i am still agnostic over bc you know... i can still say coincidence. But they are profound enough to not have me be confident to say i am an atheist and/or i believe in nothing.
I just wonder why... why is it that i have had these experiences but others don't? I sometimes think i could have momentarily gone insane, but then the second experience i shared defies that bc i have proof it happened in that my other friend was there too. It just makes things kinda weird. I always tell atheists be happy you don't have experiences bc it really does mess with your mind.
Have you had any experiences btw?
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