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@Dr.Franklin
If you tried using this syllogism on anything else, the conclusion you get would be absurd (as shown by Gaunilo of Marmoutiers). This argument tries getting around that issue by asserting that God is a "necessarily existent being", and that the syllogism only applies to "necessarily existent beings" without demonstrating why this is the case. This is special pleading.
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@Dr.Franklin
1. "These ratios seem to have come up by chance."
We do not currently know why this ratio is the way it is, so it must be either by chance or by creation, right?
2. "If the proton or neutron masses changed even slightly, then there would just be a cloud of neutrinos."
Is this claim tested?
special pleading to what>
If you tried using this syllogism on anything else, the conclusion you get would be absurd (as shown by Gaunilo of Marmoutiers). This argument tries getting around that issue by asserting that God is a "necessarily existent being", and that the syllogism only applies to "necessarily existent beings" without demonstrating why this is the case.
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@Dr.Franklin
Sure. We tested it and found that the mass of the electron to the mass of the proton ratio is ~1:1836. But what would happen if the ratio was 1:1837? 1:1835? 1:6969? Do you know?we tested protons and electrons, boooom
what are the p[roblems with anselms argument
I already stated one
Special pleading to avoid the problems that Gaunilo points out with the original ontological argument
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@EtrnlVw
It's more of an interpretation I believe. Taking into account everything that is happening and all the processes involved from the beginning to what we observe currently. More like stepping back and observing the whole picture instead of focusing on the steps. But even the steps and process should ring a bell for anyone TBH. Processes are associated with mind and intelligence....
The fine-tuning argument (the one that Dr.F is using) states that if any one of the (supposedly) millions of variables were altered slightly, then the universe/matter/life/etc. would not exist. In other words, there is one universe, and in this universe, these variables have to be just the way they are in order for anything to happen. If they changed (even by a infinitesimal amount), then these "processes" would collapse. That is his argument.
The question then is, "How do you know, for a fact, that these processes would all fail if the variables were (even slightly) different?"
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@Dr.Franklin
well guess what, 5000000000 ubniverses dont exist because god didnt create them
1. How do you know that 5000000000 ubniverses[sic!] dont exist?
2. How do you know that if one of the variables (say, the ratio between the mass of an electron and the mass of a proton) was different than it is in our universe, that the universe could not exist?
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@Dr.Franklin
WOOOOOW. Danky franky turning it up a notch! Damn.The third argument for God, a philosophical argument, is the Ontological Argument first written up by Saint Anselm in the 11th Century. It follows like this:1. It is possible that a maximally great being exists.2. If it is possible that a maximally great being exists, then a maximally great exists in some possible world.3. If a maximally great exists in some possible world, then it exists in every possible world.4. If a maximally great being exists in every possible world, then it exists in the actual world.5. If a maximally great exists in the actual world, then a maximally great being exists.6. Therefore, a maximally great being exists.This argument is very simple and true. If an MGB(Maximally Great Being) could exist, then an MGB would have to exist because it is maximally great. The MGB here is God. Let’s go through this argument with each premise.First, it is certainly possible that an MGB could exist. An MGB would have to be all-knowing, all-powerful and morally perfect. However, only a maximally great being could exist instead of a maximally great pizza for example because it is an object and objects have no intrinsic value to rank it whether it is great or not. With a being who has a soul and a state of mind, we can conclude that it is maximally great. It is the greatest being ever. Next, if it is possible that a MGB exists then it has to be in a possible world. A possible world meaning any other world that includes different things that is logically coherent. A unicorn or a leprechaun exists in a possible world because it could exist. However, a Married Bachelor or a circle does not have pi as the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter.We know an MGB could exist and is logically coherent, then it has to exist in every possible world. To illustrate this,let’s say we have 100 possible worlds. It is better to be in 56 of those 100 possible worlds than 14. It is better to be in more possible worlds than not. So, a maximally great being would have to maximally great in the fact that it exists in every possible world. Now, if God existed in every possible world, it would logically follow that God, an MGB, would exist in the actual world. Finally, if God existed in the actual world, it would exist now. God exists.God is then defined as a necessary being then. In Philosophy, there are 3 different types of beings:1.Contingent being: A being that could exist, but may not necessarily exist (such as a unicorn)2. Impossible being: A being that is impossible, such as an invisible pink unicorn or a married bachelor.3. Necessary being: A being who exists necessarily and whose non-existence is impossible (such as numbers, logic, etc).God is a Necessary being because, in order to be maximally great, it has to be necessary. It is not an MGB if it is impossible to be formed or a Contingent being that could exist. Follow logically, and if an MGB could exist, which is most certainly can, then it has to exist.This argument only applies to God. If you were to say that a maximally great pen could exist then it has to exist, couldn’t you say that anything in your imagination could exist? No, there are no definitions that could define a maximally great pen or cheeseburger, but there are real parameters for a MGB. However, even a pen could not be maximally great in the first place even if it was defined. You could always find a better pen and if you try to Think of the best possible pen, you can always think of one which is better. Until, eventually, you arrive at an all-powerful, all-knowing, all good, sentient pen which can change its form if desired and only appear to those it seems fit, etc, etc etc. in other words, you get God, choosing to take the form of a pen. Yet, if the pen was all-powerful and all-knowing and all good, and capable of taking any form, the question remains why it should stay a pen. God exists because of this classic 942-year-old argument.{LINK}
Unfortunately, my dude, this argument employs special pleading to avoid the problems that Gaunilo points out with the original ontological argument.
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@Dr.Franklin
The problem with this is that you cannot make general statements with a sample size of one.
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Final DP1 Vote Count:
SupaDudz (3/5) - Lunatic, WaterPhoenix, drafterman
irontoaster (1/5) - Virtuoso
drafterman (1/5) - SupaDudz
SUPADUDZ HAS BEEN LYNCHED. HE WAS... INNOCENT!
PLEASE SUBMIT NIGHT ACTIONS (IF APPLICABLE). STOP POSTING
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THIS DP HAS ENDED. STOP POSTING. THE FINAL VOTE COUNT WILL BE UP SHORTLY.
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Vote Count:
SupaDudz (3/5) - Lunatic, WaterPhoenix, drafterman
irontoaster (1/5) - Virtuoso
drafterman (1/5) - SupaDudz
~1.5 HOURS LEFT THIS DP.
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Vote Count:
SupaDudz (1/5) - Lunatic
irontoaster (1/5) - Virtuoso
drafterman (1/5) - SupaDudz
~3 HOURS LEFT THIS DP. IF NO MAJORITY IS ATTAINED BY THE END OF THIS DP, THEN THE PERSON WITH THE MOST VOTES WILL BE LYNCHED. IF MULTIPLE PEOPLE ARE TIED FOR MOST VOTES, THEN ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WILL BE LYNCHED AT RANDOM.
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Vote Count:
WaterPhoenix (2/5) - drafterman, irontoaster
SupaDudz (1/5) - Lunatic
irontoaster (1/5) - Virtuoso
drafterman (1/5) - SupaDudz
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DP1 WILL END IN ~31 HOURS, OR WHEN ALL VOTES HAVE BEEN CAST.
CORRECTION:
DP1 WILL END ON SATURDAY, DECEMBER 21 AT 5PM PST, WHICH IS IN ~18 HOURS, NOT 31.
DP1 WILL END ON SATURDAY, DECEMBER 21 AT 5PM PST, WHICH IS IN ~18 HOURS, NOT 31.
My bad, I had big brain fart lol
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YOU ARE NO LONGER REQUIRED TO "UNVOTE" BEFORE CHANGING YOUR VOTE. THE LATEST VOTE WILL COUNT.
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@Lunatic
@drafterman
@Speedrace
Fine. I will remove the "unvote" requirement.
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Vote Count:
SupaDudz (2/5) - Speedrace, Lunatic
WaterPhoenix (2/5) - drafterman, irontoaster
irontoaster (1/5) - Virtuoso
drafterman (1/5) - SupaDudz
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Vote Count:
irontoaster (1/5) - Virtuoso
Virtuoso (1/5) - irontoaster
SupaDudz (1/5) - Speedrace
drafterman (1/5) - SupaDudz
WaterPhoenix (1/5) - drafterman
~34.5 HOURS REMAINING THIS DP. IF, BY THE END OF THE DAY, NO ONE HAS ATTAINED A MAJORITY OF VOTES, THEN THE PERSON WITH THE MOST VOTES WILL BE LYNCHED. IF THERE ARE TWO OR MORE PEOPLE TIED FOR THE MOST VOTES, ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WILL BE LYNCHED AT RANDOM.
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Vote Count:
irontoaster (2/5) - drafterman, Virtuoso
Virtuoso (1/5) - irontoaster
SupaDudz (1/5) - Speedrace
drafterman (1/5) - SupaDudz
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JUST AS A FRIENDLY REMINDER:
If you wish to change your vote, don't forget to UNVOTE (in bold) first!
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Vote Count:
irontoaster (1[2]/5) - drafterman, Virtuoso(?)
Speedrace ([1]/5) - Virtuoso(?)
Virtuoso (1/5) - irontoaster
SupaDudz (1/5) - Speedrace
drafterman (1/5) - SupaDudz
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@David
You forgot to unvote Speed when you voted iron. Is your vote with Speed or with iron?
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Vote Count:
irontoaster (2/5) - drafterman, Virtuoso
Speedrace (1/5) - Virtuoso
Virtuoso (1/5) - irontoaster
SupaDudz (1/5) - Speedrace
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FIX TO THE VOTE COUNT:
WITH 8 PEOPLE ALIVE, IT TAKES 5 VOTES TO LYNCH, NOT 3. MY BAD.
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THIS DP WILL END AT 5:30PM PST ON SATURDAY, DECEMBER 21, 2019, OR WHEN EVERYONE ALIVE HAS VOTED
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Vote Count:
Speedrace (1/3) - Virtuoso
irontoaster (1/3) - drafterman
Virtuoso (1/3) - irontoaster
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@Lunatic
@Greyparrot
@drafterman
@Speedrace
@WaterPhoenix
Let the games begin
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HELLO EVERYONE!!!
It turns out that we only have 8 players (the timing could have been way better, lol), so instead of doing what I normally intended to ;((
we're doing something else, which sucks, cuz now I can't watch you guys suffer as much under the NORMALCY of my original plan :(((
So yeah...
(the following is adapted from Virtuoso's DP1 description)
Rules
1. Be civil
2. Do not edit posts
3. Unless explicitly stated so in your PM, you may not communicate with anyone else in this game about the game.
4. Observe the sitewide COC, plz and thank you.
5. Any violation of the above rules may result in an auto-modkill.
Mechs
1. The deadline is 48 hours, or until everyone has voted.
2. The night phase shall last 24 hours or until all actions are in.
2. Plurality lynch is on. If no-one gets a majority by end of the day, the player with the most votes will be lynched. In the event of a tie, the lynch will be randomized.
Players
- Lunatic
- Drafterman
- Speedrace
- WaterPhoenix
- GreyParrot
- irontoaster
- Virtuoso
- SupaDudz
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@David
@Vader
@irontoaster
See above
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@Lunatic
@Greyparrot
@drafterman
@Speedrace
@WaterPhoenix
THE GAME WILL START ON THURSDAY, DECEMBER 19 AT 5PM PST
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Supa has notified me that he would like to join
Sign-ups:
- Lunatic
- Drafterman
- Speedrace
- WaterPhoenix
- GreyParrot
- irontoaster
- Virtuoso
- SupaDudz
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13.
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@Barney
Once we determine the relationships of the affiliations of each of the 4 remaining players (given that we VTNL today), scum would practically reveal themselves.
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If Sir is scum, then it will become obvious the next DP. If he isn’t, then we will be able to confirm 100% who scum is.
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@SirAnonymous
Just read the DP
So your only defense is that you aren’t scum, but you have no way of confirming that?
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Sign-ups:
- Lunatic
- Drafterman
- Speedrace
- WaterPhoenix
- GreyParrot
- irontoaster
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12.
13.
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Sign-ups:
- Lunatic
- Drafterman
- Speedrace
- WaterPhoenix
- GreyParrot
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12.
13.
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Nvm I found a way to make it work with 11. So yeah, 11-13 players.
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Woops. Accidentally pinged someone who's already in the game and someone who is temp-banned. I low IQ'd there, derp
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