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@ethang5
How do you know he created you?Only God can create life.Any supporting evidence for this?I generally do not waste my time on silly questions. So asking me for evidence for things like the sun being hot, only women giving birth, 2+3=5, and God being the only creator of life, will get dismissed without ceremony.
This statement would be true only if the premise (only God can create life, aka creationism) is self-evidently true. It's not. Abiogenesis and Evolution directly counter the notion of creationism. How is creationism more credible than those I just presented?
Is there any non-biblical record of God appearing in any location?Plenty.For example?Look it up yourself. Why should I provide you non-biblical records of God appearing anywhere?
You were the one who made the claim (there are plenty of non-biblical records of God appearing in any location), therefore, you are the one who has to substantiate it.
What is your qualification for the "Judeo-Christian" God?Post #329 of this thread:"As there is only one God, He needs no qualification."Pay attention and we won't need to waste time like this again.
You made a claim that there is only one God. What is your proof?
How is the bible credible?It has a long line of custodial accuracy, it has proven correct geographically, historically, and culturally. There are hundreds of ancient copies of it found in various places that self-verify, and it's effect on human history is unmatched.Can you please elaborate on this?No. I was clear enough.
It's not enough to make generalized statements. In order to substantiate your statement here, you need to provide specific examples.
Not to mention the cloud of billions of believers who testify to its credibility.This is an ad-populum fallacy [1].No, it isn't. The ad-populum fallacy is an argument that states a belief is TRUE because many believe it is.That was not what you asked. You asked, "How was the Bible CREDIBLE?" Billions of people testifying over hundreds of years that the bible is credible does lend it credibility.
Let me reiterate my point:
How can you take the passages of the bible at face value?
See how I answered all of your questions without running or dodging?I got the point already. No need to repeat this.My experience says it needed repeating.
Repeating something for the sake of doing so is pointless.
Aren't you an atheist?
Agnostic. Big Difference.
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@ethang5
<br>How do you know he created you?Only God can create life.
Any supporting evidence for this?
Is there any non-biblical record of God appearing in any location?Plenty.
For example?
Firstly, the Judeo-Christian god is the one described in the OT and NT of Judaism and Christianity.OK. But please keep in mind that is your qualification, not mine.if you practice Judaism or Christianity, then you believe in the Judeo-Christian God.Still your qualification, not mine. I know who I believe.
What is your qualification for the "Judeo-Christian" God?
How is the bible credible?It has a long line of custodial accuracy, it has proven correct geographically, historically, and culturally. There are hundreds of ancient copies of it found in various places that self-verify, and it's effect on human history is unmatched.
Can you please elaborate on this?
Not to mention the cloud of billions of believers who testify to its credibility.
This is an ad-populum fallacy [1].
See how I answered all of your questions without running or dodging?
I got the point already. No need to repeat this.
Good jobThanks.
No problem.
Remember that when you get the temptation to run and dodge.
I'm not that type of person ;)
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@ethang5
How does God affect you?He created me. An easier question would be, "How does God NOT affect me.
How do you know he created you?
Has God ever chosen to specifically appear in any physical location before (outside of the bible)?To my knowledge, God has never chosen to specifically appear inside of a bible.(That was a really weird question)
This was not what I meant. Let me rephrase this question:
Is there any non-biblical record of God appearing in any location?
If the Judeo-Christian god...Please, I said nothing about any Judeo-Christian god. As there is only one God, He needs no qualification.
Firstly, the Judeo-Christian god is the one described in the OT and NT of Judaism and Christianity. Hence, if you practice Judaism or Christianity, then you believe in the Judeo-Christian God.
...was known all around the world for thousands of years, then how come the vast majority of the world worshipped other deities?Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.Rom 1:22 - Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,Rom 1:23 - And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things.Rom 1:24 - Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:Rom 1:25 - Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.Has He ever done this outside of the bible?Yes. Rom 1:18 - For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;Rom 1:19 - Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.Rom 1:20 - For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
How is the bible credible?
See how I answered all of your questions without running or dodging?
Good job
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@Vader
Get off the internet and enjoy your family
Jokes on you I have no family
**INNER STRUGGLE INTENSIFIES**
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@PGA2.0
I think Ragnar meant it as a preemptive reminder to everyone, considering that this type of discussion, by nature, has a greater possibility of resulting in personal attacks.
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@Dr.Franklin
AMERICANS HAVE A LOWER LIFE EXPECTANCY THAN CANADIANS, AND FREE HEALTHCARE IS AWESOME
OIL IS THE PRIMARY THING RESPONSIBLE FOR RAMPANT CLIMATE CHANGE
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@Dr.Franklin
AMERICANS ARE GENERALLY OBESE, MOST FAST FOOD AND SOFT DRONK COMPANIES ARE AMERICAN, AND OIL IS BAD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT
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@Dr.Franklin
**THIS USER HAS BEEN BANNED FOR HURTING ANOTHER USER’S FEELINGS**
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@Dr.Franklin
CORN IS WHAT’S USED TO MAKE HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP, WHICH IS REALLY UNHEALTHY
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@Dr.Franklin
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@Dr.Franklin
WELL AT LEAST TRUDEAU DOESN’T HAVE A TERRIBLE HARIDO
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@Dr.Franklin
I identify this post as iNFiniTiEtH
No it isn’t, and that’s a FACT
FACTS DON’T CARE ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS
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@Dr.Franklin
WELL AT LEAST OUR PRIME MINISTER’S SURNAME WASN’T CHANGED FROM “DRUMPF”
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@Dr.Franklin
THANKSGIVING WAS OVER A MONTH AGO REEEEEEEEEE
lol jk
Happy Thanksgiving to you too!
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@ethang5
God exists outside of the observable universe.God exists everywhere, inside and "outside" the observable universe.Unless you are able to observe what is beyond the observable universe, you will not be able to observe god.God also exists inside the observable universe too. And is able to affect me, though I cannot observe Him.
How does God affect you?
If so, then where?God is like an electron in an electron cloud. He does not have a specific physical locus unless He chooses to physically manifest in one.
Has God ever chosen to specifically appear in any physical location before (outside of the bible)?
If not, then he is unobservable.You seem to be using "observable" as "real". That is an incorrect usage of the word. Many real things are not observable, and for a long time, many things observable now were not observable.Your actual argument is that God does not exist and is therefore unobservable. So I will not allow you to hide behind a misuse of the term, "observable".Even the bible agrees that God is not observable, but it is a logical leap to go from that to God not existing.
I never said that god wasn’t real
Has God made Himself known to us in any way outside of the bible?That should be obvious. God was known for thousands of years all over the world before there was a bible. The bible itself is only an indication that God made Himself known.
If the Judeo-Christian god was known all around the world for thousands of years, then how come the vast majority of the world worshipped other deities?
Which supports my point that though we cannot observe God, He can observe us and affect the world in which we live
Has He ever done this outside of the bible?
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@Wylted
*Says people should not be allowed to make personal attacks on mods*
*Calls the mods [female private parts], [weak, servile men], and [people of African origin]*
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My point isn’t to debate the merits and flaws of a vegetarian/vegan diet vs. an omnivorous one. It’s to highlight the fact that people have different stances on moral issues, such as whether or not we should be killing animals for meat.Very true. You bring up some good points. We have to eat. We should treat animals in a humane way, not a cruel way, yet we as humans have dominion over animals. Not only this but do you think we could feed the whole of humanity solely on vegetation? My justification for eating meat is that God has given us permission to eat animals instead of just vegetation? This gets into a wholly different topic, God's existence. So I have reasons for why I believe it is okay to eat meat.
As for immoral, do you think animals think in terms of morality or is that completely a human function?
According to those arguing for vegetarianism/veganism, animals certainly deserve to be considered with morals in mind. Why? Because they can feel pain and suffering, and causing unnecessary suffering to beings that can feel pain is inherently immoral.
PS. Are you a vegetarian?
I’ve been on and off of vegetarianism for the past few months, but I’ll admit that I’m not planning to be a vegetarian/vegan, at least not yet.
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@SirAnonymous
However, it's an infinite loop
EVEN BETTER
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@Athias
Thank you.Enjoy the rest of your evening and good luck in your future discussions
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@PGA2.0
Are you saying the slaughter is not quick?
The treatment of the animal, from the moment they are born to their slaughter, is inhumane. Some would argue that it is immoral.
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@3RU7AL
I'm not really sure how you're getting the "outside of it" part.The most common definition I've found is the "omnipotent", "omniscient", "omnibenevolent", "creator" (OOOC or 3OC).
The universe is the set of all things inside it. If the god/gods existed inside the universe that it created, then that would mean that the god/gods created it/them self/selves.
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@3RU7AL
It is, however, perfectly safe to say that Russel's Teapot is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM PURE IMAGINATION
Could be. Also could be the case that there is a teapot in between Earth and Mars. Without being able to observe all of the space in between Earth and Mars, there's no way to say for sure.
Yes, but this is besides my point.AND HAS ABSOLUTELY ZERO BEARING ON OUR DAILY LIVES AND OR OUR CONCEPTS OF HUMAN MORALITY.
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Demonstrate the logical contradiction or absurdity. Nothing else.
You see, I have this IMPECCABLE proof that I 100% have that will open your third eye, but I'm simply CHOOSING not to reveal it.
It's literally explained the sentence after this.Does the fact that there is a thought (specific pattern of neurons firing) about something mean that the thing that is being thought about automatically exists? No.Why not?
Just like how a painting of an apple isn't itself an apple (try eating it), the pattern of neurons being fired corresponding to an apple isn't itself an apple, either.Operating on your logic, the term apple doesn't exist. So I have no idea of that about which you're talking.
I'm not talking about the term "apple". I'm talking about an apple.
Likewise, the thought (pattern of neurons firing) of a particular god/set of gods doesn't mean that the god/gods exist(s).Operating on your logic, your response doesn't exist. So '' '' ''' '' '' ....
Did I say "God doesn't exist"? No. I said "it doesn't mean God/gods exists.
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@Vader
I feel sorry for you. My posts here were not, in any way, to be desultory to anyone
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@Dr.Franklin
HOLY **** WHAT DID THEY DO TO HIS FACE!?!?
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@drafterman
Yes, but correlation =/= causation.
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@Barney
I recommend renaming this forum to:
DART PURGATORY (ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK)
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@drafterman
@Speedrace
I am town role blocker. I RB'd Water by random.
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@Athias
I can believe that there is a 100% steel teapot that is also 100% made of ceramicTherefore I do believe that there is a 100% steel teapot that is also 100% made of ceramicWhere's the logical contradiction?
This example points out the fact that the syllogism is so vague and general that it allows all statements to be true, even nonsensical ones. In other words, if you take it at face value, it doesn't mean anything. Again, this goes back to the point that just because you believe something, doesn't make it true.
Do you know how a brain works?No.
In a nutshell, this is how the brain works. The brain consists of many, many neurons. These neurons communicate with each other by firing electrical signals to each other. A specific pattern of neurons firing corresponds to a specific thought/action.
Does the fact that there is a thought (specific pattern of neurons firing) about something mean that the thing that is being thought about automatically exists? No. Just like how a painting of an apple isn't itself an apple (try eating it), the pattern of neurons being fired corresponding to an apple isn't itself an apple, either. Likewise, the thought (pattern of neurons firing) of a particular god/set of gods doesn't mean that the god/gods exist(s).
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@3RU7AL
This makes every voice the voice of god and every book the word of god.
If you think that god IS the universe, then this would be the case. What most theists believe is that their god/gods created the universe, and is therefore outside of it.
This doesn’t mean that there is 100% no god.The claim that "god exists" is an appeal to ignorance if you refuse to define which specific version of gods you are referring to.The gods that most people care about proving are logically incoherent.People only care about the hypothetical existence of gods (IFF) it empowers them in some way.Only logically incoherent gods bestow wisdom to special specific chosen prophets and make them write dusty old books of rules.The gods that are possible are necessarily (EITHER) incomprehensible (OR) indistinguishable from pure imagination.
It's basically Russel's Teapot worded differently. We can't say for sure that there isn't a teapot with X characteristics in between Earth and Mars, but it would be more of a stretch to say that there is, without concrete evidence to back it up.
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@ethang5
You assume because you don't know, nobody knows. Speak only for yourself.
God exists outside of the observable universe. Unless you are able to observe what is beyond the observable universe, you will not be able to observe god.
If you consider that the Christian views God as a living, conscious, person, instead of thinking of Him as a "force" or "law" of nature, you would understand the Christian position much better.
Is this living, conscious God inside the universe? If so, then where? If not, then he is unobservable.
So on our own, we cannot perceive God, but that in no way means God cannot make Himself known to us.
Has God made Himself known to us in any way outside of the bible?
But more and more you will find Christians reluctant to get dragged into a "Does God Exist?" debate on every thread, because we sometimes we want to debate other things.
No one is stopping you from debating other things.
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@3RU7AL
Fair enoughIt's a conditional statement.If you believe that an infinite god exists, then everything that exists must be part of this infinite god.
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@Athias
Sure bud, whatever you say.I am able; engaging you on the subject is a different matter. I choose to not respond to your supplication.
You can use the reductio ad absurdum as a rhetorical device in expressing your feelings (i.e. it's horrible) or a logical one, for which you'd have to demonstrate a logical contradiction in the conclusion. Since your feelings are irrelevant, you'd have to employ the latter to make your point. Thus far, you have not done so.
I can believe that there is a 100% steel teapot that is also 100% made of ceramic
Therefore I do believe that there is a 100% steel teapot that is also 100% made of ceramic
Everything one perceives must exist; this is irrefutable. One cannot interact with the non-existent in any shape or form; the non-existent does not provide any information toward or description of its being because it does not exist. If "X" didn't exist, then it would be impossible for one to know "X" didn't exist, because it does not exist. Hence, everything one perceives must exist because it's impossible to perceive that which doesn't exist.
Do you know how a brain works?
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