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VTL SIR
Obviosuly trueing to impersinaate Oro to avois the fact that hen is scums
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@RationalMadman
I OPT OUT OF THIS UNLESS I AM CALLED SENPAI IN THE STORY
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@PGA2.0
Ok. To prevent this from spilling over, I'll leave the abortion thing to the side for now.
Let me ask you an unrelated question: Do you eat meat?
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@RationalMadman
Yet Ramshutu, the site's most revered voter, votes solely on comparing things to preconceived weight etc. Sometimes he's actually voted sources for the side that used 0, just because he hates the source of the other so much.
Wow. Are there any examples of this?
<br>
This kind of mentality is rampant amongst many voters and humans. It's also nothing to do with what actually gets allowed or not.
The voting mods would be well aware of this. If you want, we could have a selection of hand-picked judges who exhibit minimal bias.
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@RationalMadman
All of the votes have to take into consideration both sides of the argument, without the influence of any preconceived notions. Bsh1 explained it very well here, and I will be very blunt to emphasize this point in the descriptions, if we do end up doing the debate.Formal debating relies on voters having good brains. Most people's brains revolve around sources they arbitrarily think are reliable and refusing to consider new ideas that the debater brings up for one of the first times that they come across it.
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@PGA2.0
It depends if that something is intentional and malicious by another person.If this is going where I think it is going regarding the unborn, the unborn is not guilty but innocent of any wrongdoing.
So, your moral argument is that the unborn is a human being and that wanting to terminate it is inherently immoral. This is a perfectly valid stance.
However, some other people argue that forcing a woman to keep a baby that she does not want is immoral. You clearly have some contentions with this, but would you agree that it is at least possible to argue from this moral stance?
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@RationalMadman
Would you be interested in debating this topic avec moi?
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@Lunatic
I didn’t lie about NP1. It’s just that I called NP1 NP0.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I didn't not expect water to be an SK.
Lol that means you did expect Water to be an SK
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@SirAnonymous
<br>Why redirect to Lunatic? If you had redirected Zaradi to me, then nothing would have happened if Zaradi was town because watchers can't be redirected and we would have won instantly if Zaradi had been scum.
Either way, we would have found out that Zar was scum. I basically picked randomly.
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I was Serial Killer. My targets were Oro and AD, which sucked for me, cuz they were the two main guys on the block for DP1 lol
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@ILikePie5
If what Zar said was true (which turns out it was), then nothing would happen to Lunatic. If Lunatic died, then it's very likely that Zar would be scum.So you wanted to kill a protective role and another town member?
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@ILikePie5
I did this because I wanted to confirm Zar to be town.How?
If Lunatic didn't die, then Zar would be confirmed town, since any action that Zar would have done, if he was mafia, would be redirected onto Lunatic.
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@ILikePie5
I redirected Zaradi to Lunatic. I did this because I wanted to confirm Zar to be town.
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@ILikePie5
@SirAnonymous
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@Lunatic
Also I don't understand the redirect theory and how it makes SA scum?
It doesn't. The idea is that my redirect prevented Zaradi from killing someone else by switching his target to Sir, who was made deathproof for NP1 and DP2 by Pie. The reason I'm VTLing Sir is to test Pie's claim. If what Pie is saying is true, then Sir shouldn't die from this lynch. Otherwise, we would be most certain that Pie is scum.
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@Zaradi
IF Pie is not lying about his claim, THEN he would be an honorary townie.Pie is essentially an honorary townie.If this is true, then why do we care about testing his claim? Your answer will be "because it confirms his claim". But if we are already saying "pie is town" then why are we testing a townie to see if a townie is telling us the truth or not? If we were doubting him, we wouldn't be saying he's town. This entire plan is just "hey let's waste the DP because fuck it why not"
Does this clear it up?
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@Zaradi
Pie's claimed wincon literally revolves around a townie. If town loses, then he loses. Therefore, Pie is essentially an honorary townie.
Unless Pie is lying about his claim, that is
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@Zaradi
Cool, let's do it then. Why aren't you voting him?
My point is: If Speed is scum, then we can deal with him on any Day Phase. On the other hand, SirAnon's deathproof lasts until the end of this DP. After that point, it will become a lot more difficult to confirm Pie's claim.
This plan doesn't town confirm anyone. It confirms that Pie is, in fact, TP. Legitimately that's all this does. No one is doubting that.
Pie's claimed wincon literally revolves around a townie. If town loses, then he loses. Therefore, Pie is essentially an honorary townie.
What does this even mean? My argument is that mafia at its core as a game is about behavioral analysis. That's what scumhunting is.
You said that what happened in the previous games was due to crappy play by certain individuals. I countered that by saying that it is impossible to 100% confirm who is town and who is scum from what they say alone, and that it is better if we can get a 100% certainty of a few people.
Congrats, it's impossible to determine alignment with 100% accuracy until the endgame. That's not my point and I really doubt that's yours.
Same as above
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@Zaradi
Your idea is bad because I wanna win today not tomorrow.
Slow and steady wins the race
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@Zaradi
Yes, the problem is we have a better lynch so why would we waste the DP?
If Speed is scum, then we can easily deal with him. SirAnon's deathproof lasts until the end of this DP. Also, having 3-4 town confirmeds is a lot stronger than behavioural scumhunting.
Also, if you're saying that generating reads off of gameplay is bad because people can generate incorrect reads isn't an argument for behavior tells being bad, it's a reason the person making the reads should git gud.
What happened last game wasn't an anomaly. It followed a pattern. Also, it is impossible to determine with 100% certainty who town is and who scum is based off of behaviour alone.
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@Zaradi
According to Pie, if we lynched SirAnon, it would not go through. This is literally the only time we have of confirming Pie's claim. Do you see any problems with this?
Also, saying someone is town/scum based solely on their gameplay was a major cause of town's loss in the previous game.
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@SirAnonymous
A town block is a group of townies who know that the other members are town
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At this point, I think it's best if we concentrate our efforts into forming a town block, rather than speculatively scumhunting.
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@SirAnonymous
You're neglecting the fact that the roles were decided randomly.
Ok, in that case, Zar's claim and role aren't confirmed yet. Period.
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@Zaradi
I said you're claim is not confirmed, yet. If you were watcher, given the nature of your role (and the fact that there is only one maf and one 3P [Pie] in this game), you would probably be town.*says I'm not confirmed anything**gets on me for not saying I'm town confirmed*
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@Zaradi
The people who you watched don't know who visited them during the night. Who else could possibly CC your results? No one. This is why I'm saying you're not confirmed. Anyone could make up results and no one would be able to validate them.
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@Zaradi
Also, if you are town, then why cast doubt about your own towniness?
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@Zaradi
Again, negative results aren't confirmational. Considering that Drafter picked from a list of dozens/hundreds of roles, literally any maf could claim watcher and say the exact same thing. The chance of someone with the exact same role CCing is very slim.
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@Zaradi
You aren't confirmed anything at this point.Have I tried to say I'm confirmed town?
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@Zaradi
As Sir highlighted, it's a possibility, since you aren't confirmed.
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@SirAnonymous
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@Speedrace
Lol all of Press' stuff loaded for me after I sent that
lol
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@SirAnonymous
Therefore Zaradi wouldn't have died in any scenario
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@SirAnonymous
Firstly, you would not have been preventing a lynch. You would have caused Zaradi to unintentionally commit suicide.Secondly, your hypothesis was not confirmed. If Zaradi was scum, then he would have died trying to kill me. What you actually did was town-confirm Zaradi because, had he been scum, he would be dead.
Bomb only blows other people up if it dies. Pie was protecting you last NP, so you wouldn't have died in any scenario.
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@Zaradi
and that by redirecting your action to Sir, I could prevent you from lynching someone, resulting in a no-lynch.<br>Reword this, it makes no sense.
Since Pie claimed to be protecting Anon, by redirecting who I thought was scum to someone who was deathproof for that NP, I could prevent an NK.
Actually, no let's go deeper. How can you confirm my role next DP without telling me who to watch?
I can confirm BY next DP. It has something to do with your role.
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@Zaradi
The reason I redirected you was because I believed you were scum, and that by redirecting your action to Sir, I could prevent you from lynching someone, resulting in a no-lynch. So far, the NP results match my hypothesis. I will tell you one thing: your claim (if true) can be confirmed by the beginning of DP3.
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@Zaradi
You need a lot more elaboration than that. You interfered with town's only way of gathering info in the NP. That's scummy as fuck.
I’m at school right now. I’ll elaborate in roughly 2.5 hours from now.
there's no townie reasoning to redirecting an investigative role. The only reason to want to mess with my results is if youre scum.
That would be the case if you were confirmed. You’re not.
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@Zaradi
Wait, you redirected the only claimed investigation role in the game? Why?
To confirm or expose several claims.
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