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@Shila
Why would Springfield like convicted criminals MORE than other Trump counties in the area?
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@Barney
There's also the problem that Trump is a charismatic cult leader, proclaimed by many of his followers to be the true messiah. Cult members will believe whatever their leaders say, regardless of the evidence literally contradicting it (for which the cognitive dissonance usually only strengthens their resolve).
This applies to every other county in Ohio as well as Springfield.
Yes; Trump has a crazy cult; that crazy cult voted for him in 2016 and 2020 as well as 2024. We are talking about how much Trump outperformed his 2024 results vs 2020 county by county. The cult effect is constant.
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@Sidewalker
On what planet does him winning by a large margin in Springfield make that lie become true? It just makes no sense at all.
Springfield residents are primary sources.
Trump said it, and everyone with actual knowledge of the situation said it wasn't true, even the lady that started the rumor said it wasn't true.
When I have the data that I have, I would question authority here.
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@Savant
I don't know, but "I don't know" is not the same as Trump being right.
At least you answer the question unlike Shila who goes into dodge mode.
But the solution to ignorance is curiosity. Ask around and see what you get.
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@Shila
Why else would Springfield swing much more for Trump than other places in Ohio?Trump is a consistent/persistent liar. He is also a convicted criminal.
Are you saying that Springfield, OH has a much more, "soft on crime" policy than virtually every other county in Ohio?
Or is this just a politician like dodge?
Or is this just a politician like dodge?
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@Barney
@Sidewalker
@Savant
Why else would Springfield swing much more for Trump than other places in Ohio?
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@Shila
Haitians are flocking to Springfield because of the jobs and not because of the abundance of cats.Many immigrants from Haiti have settled in Springfield, Ohio, drawn by the low cost of living and plentiful jobs.
Then how come the Trump swing in Clark County (aka springfield) was higher than 98% of the counties in Ohio?
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@Sidewalker
You insulting me isn't going to change my mind.
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@Shila
Do you admit some quantifiably proportion of Haitians are eating pets in Springfield?
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Why do I proclaim this declaration?
Imagine Ohio; most counties are extremely homogenous.
The 2024 effect (24e) is defined as the difference between Trump's 2024 margin and his 2020 margin.
The 24e in the nation is positive. Ohio followed this trend.
Lets apply the ohio counties to a graph measuring their 24e scores; 0 indicates the smallest 24e score (even if negative), 100 indicates the highest.
The distribution is a normal distribution, mean=2.66%, SD=1.67%, Springfield's Xbar is 6.12%; this indicates Springfield's xbar is 2.08 SDs above the mean (98th percentile).
This was not coincidence; Springfield listened to what Trump has proclaimed about Haitians consuming their pets, and they turned up to vote for him.
The Haitians of Springfield; some % of them (unknown %) are in fact, eating pets.
And I will deny accusations of racism because I believe the confederate flag should be lit on fire (that flag is actually racist). If someone gave me a confederate flag, then it's becoming fire fuel the next day (whether or not it's frigid out). The CSA flag is degenerate because enslaving human beings is degenerate.
But I believe in calling a spade a spade, and I fail to understand how I'm incorrect.
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@Shila
Imprisonment is confinement. Whipping is causing physical bodily pain.
90 days of prison is more intense than 2 days of back pain.
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@Shila
Can’t you find something better to compare yourself with than a criminal?
Since we're talking about criminal policy, no.
But why should they get government paid for rent and I don't? I work; they commit crimes. Don't reward bad behavior with free prison sentences.
After seeing that you are a liberal, I will modify my argument:
Whippings is less cruel of a punishment than jail time. Whippings cause the prisoner to be in pain for maybe 3 days and then they're out. Compare that with 90 days of jail.
Whippings is less cruel of a punishment than jail time. Whippings cause the prisoner to be in pain for maybe 3 days and then they're out. Compare that with 90 days of jail.
Imprisonment is way more cruel than whippings.
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@Savant
Keeping criminals off the streets benefits society as well.
Whippings are cheaper though. If a criminal gets free rent, then I want free rent; I didn't fuck up; they did.
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@Best.Korea
You're a pedophile; of course you would say that.
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@Savant
Then cut government spending to zero. That minimizes cost, and you don't care about anything else.
I'm fine with government spending going to individuals that benefit society (teachers, cops, etc), not to those that are bad for society (murderers, r@pists, really any criminal).
A teacher's presence benefits society relative to that teacher not existing; this is not true for a criminal.
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@Barney
I guess by that logic, we could have a murderer join DART and I can't call for the death penalty for murderers.
If User A is a murderer and I think murderers should get killed and say that, then are you saying it would be a ban? Because me saying that to User A directly is merely me being principled.
I treat those I look at the same way as if I am not looking at them.
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@Canadaparrot
The same reason many people were cheering on Trump when he lost in 2020.
You can hate the winner.
You have TDS (Trump Devotion Syndrome).
Are we going to go in cycles or what?
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@Canadaparrot
I don't campaign for Trump. He's not libertarian; he did Jan 6 and I'm going to tie Jan 6 to him because it's common sense. I hate him.
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@Canadaparrot
The same reason many people were cheering on Trump when he lost in 2020.
You can hate the winner.
You have TDS (Trump Devotion Syndrome).
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@Shila
Trump won the elections by beating Harris. Case closed.
But why did he win? Is it policy? No. It's just vibes.
Vibes in a POTUS should be irrelevant.
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@Lemming
But seriously, compare all the times you agree with Harris vs all the times you agree with Trump. Get like your top 20 issues; see Harris'es positoin vs Trump's. I don't know your top 20 issues; but Harris would win that contest.
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@Canadaparrot
In Canada, we hate Trump because we are told to hate him.
As you should.
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@Lemming
In your view, how is forests over skyscrapers not worth it?
More skyscrapers -> more people -> more GDP.
Capitalism. Power.
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@Lemming
The difference though is Tom McCall was merely recommending that Californians not move to Oregon and warning of the anti Californian bigotry in his state.
But he was some environmentalist; if you prioritize forests over skyscrapers, then live in the forest. I guarantee you, it's not worth it.
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@Double_R
When you're voting for someone you do not think will do the very things he campaigned on, you cannot pretend your vote is based on policy.
It is, Mharman merely will agree with deporting the brown people if Trump gives the wink and the nod. It's racist; he doesn't care. He can prove me wrong if he wants.
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@WyIted
The criminal justice system in the United States disproportionately harms many marginalized communities.
I don't care about black strangers (or any strangers); a black r@pist deserves to be executed even if blacks are more likely to r@pe.
However, this misses the point that these disproportionate sentences have devastating effects on not just the inmates themselves, but to those close to them and by extension society.
Don't care; children don't deserve a r@pist father.
There are about 3 black men for every 5 black women in society
You provide no link.
Single mothers are significantly more likely to live in poverty (census 2022) and face half the annual income of 2 parent households according to statistics gathered by payscale.com.
Don't marry a r@pist or murderer (same with trailer park trash).
When a person goes to prison for any significant length of time, it leaves a gap in their employment history that is hard to overcome.
Alright; so the penalty for DUI can be whippings.
We also must make JDC a completely voluntary punishment and it would not be offered to criminals too dangerous to enter society, such as serial killers.
Those people you just behead without expensive painkillers; their pain doesn't matter; my tax money matters more. Disagreeing with that is leftist.
It wouldn’t be offered to people too unhealthy to withstand the punishment.
The health of criminals doesn't matter. Grow a pair.
"I stumbled to an adjacent room and plonked myself down. For the next three weeks (I) slept with my face down. (I) could neither eat or sleep properly. For the first week, I couldn't even sleep. The pain was unbearable. It took more than a month for the wounds to dry. My buttocks didn't look normal after that, with the skin drooping and the scars." (Sam)Another person caned stated: "(After the caning) I couldn't sit down or lie on my back for a week. (Going to the toilet) was the worst of all [...] I could not squat or even bend my knees. I got scared every time I got the urge [...] I tried not eating but this did not work. I still had to go and I had to do this standing up, holding my buttocks wide apart. (This lasted) one week then things came back to normal." (Ah Seng - 5 strokes).
Anecdotes; these "men" should stop bitching like little girls.
Another common rebuttal is that JDC isn’t a real deterrent because children having corporal punishment used on them often are less well behaved than children receiving alternative forms of punishment. Ignoring the fact that most studies cited confirming this view conflate abusive and non-abusive forms of corporal punishment, we can look at recidivism rates in countries that use JDC.
I would have no problem whipping kids; it beats spending tax money taking care of them.
But we largely agree, but leave race out of your arguments; I don't care if a penalty disproportionally harms white people or under the bed people.
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@Mharman
For me, the concern is virtually purely financial.
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@Savant
This is a constant. My sole concern is cost. Whippings are cheaper than 3 months of taxpayer funded rent.
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@Best.Korea
Fine; I'm not a sadist for Adulterers and DUI holders; I don't enjoy their pain; I can tolerate them being in pain (to save money).
But whippings produces pain for 3 days; jail produces pain for 3 months.
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@Greyparrot
Why do you refuse to believe that Harris is biracial? I'm guessing there will be no answer because cult members can't justify why they believe something other than, "Our leader said it; it must be true".
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All I've heard from people is that it's cruel punishment (whether a punishment happens to be unusual is irrelevant if it's not unjustly cruel).
What I would argue is cruel punishment is forcing the taxpayer to pay for the living expenses of Person A (who did something bad) because Person A did something bad (totally out of the taxpayer's control).
So I'd rather whip them. Saving taxpayer money (indefinite) matters more than reducing prisoner pain (short term and recoverable). If I punch you, then you will recover If I steal $500 from you, then you will always be $500 poorer than if I never stole the $500 from you.
Saving money matters more than reducing suffering. To disagree with this is leftist; otherwise how are libertarians different from leftists on anything economic?
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@Double_R
Let's do a little thought experiment.You are a spirit standing next to God looking down on America. God tells you he's about to send you down into the body of an infant to live a full human life and gives you a choice as to what race you'd like to be.What are you going to choose, or are you going to tell God it doesn't matter?
Probably white because brown people are more likely to live in a poverty ridden shithole and they are more likely to live in an area with poorly funded schools. That, and I like what I'm used too (I look White, Hispanic, Asian, Jewish, and African American all at the same time).
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@Shila
You are wrong. It is UK that is deporting Indian workers.
I read something opposite; but I can't find the link.
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@Savant
It doesn't matter; the US constitution should be the law everywhere, including the afterlife. Man makes better laws than God.
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@Mall
All religion is the enemy of mankind.
They are all bigoted and violate the 8th amendment. Catholisism; Protestantism; Islam; Hinduism; Judaism; Buddhism; Trumpism. They all suck.
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@Shila
These include cultural affirmations of one's own worth; presumed greater social status; and freedom to move, buy, work, play, and speak freely.
1. India deported 15% of it's British residents (white people). This applies to the next 2 items in the list.
4. What does this mean?
5. Larry Elder has free speech. Cori Bush has free speech; 2 fat black mother fuckers from opposite political parties have free speech.
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@Lemming
Harris
Even if I treated Harris as Biden, I would have voted for Trump over Biden.
“I view 'Rights as something often lost incrementally until all gone, I do not view small losses in Rights, to 'truly be small.”
You can prefer Harris while not agreeing with everything she stands for. Like, I don’t agree with Harris on AR 15s or Ukraine, but Trump is way less libertarian. Harris supports stand your ground https://youtube.com/shorts/R368FWfQpSw?feature=shared.
Gender“I view it as a culture debate myself. I don't aesthetically agree with the culture, I think it it encourages pretend thinking, and is often harmful. I do not wish to vote into office a party I view as encouraging it.”
How would you define a woman? Because chromosomes is not a consistent argument if you believe there are only 2 genders (ex: XXY would mean you are non-binary).
“They can always compete in the any sex league.”
Then they aren’t going to win due to the lack of testosterone in their system. I’ve heard stories of transmen winning sports competitions. When you’re young enough, you do co ed sports, but then due to testosterone, the leagues separate. So there should really be a maximum age to start HRT before you can compete as a transwoman with the women.
ImmigrationI view some problems in the world, as arising from the number of people.“I view some problems in labor and pay arising from people trying to import cheap labor, rather than addressing poor pay or bad job conditions.”
More people -> more workers -> more demand for workers -> less supply for jobs -> lower wages.
More people -> more customers -> more demand for jobs -> less supply for workers -> higher wages.
It cancels out; wages don’t go down due to population growth.
I view floods of people as harmful to areas.
The article mentions people being on other’s property until they got off and were able to go to the street. If they’re on your property and they are going to be off in 5 seconds; then wait the 5 seconds.
I don't feel strong human obligation to 'have to take in immigrants because they want to come here.I prefer to prioritize people already here and people we have obligations to.
Neither do I, I want their labor to add to the US economy.
Though I still lean towards stronger State and City identities.
In what way that the democrats prohibit? Texas has steaks; NY has Pizza; California has Avocado toast; nobody is trying to take that away.
Trump ImmigrationDo you have a source for Trumps marriages and context?I don't ask for such as proof, but context for my understanding.Did they have passports? Acquire Green Cards?
https://www.vox.com/2016/11/5/13533816/melania-trump-illegal-immigrant. If you think their biased, then see what Fox News says on it (Trump's wife worked illegally during her first weeks in the US, documents show | Fox News). If you own it and let others do the same, then fine. But this is not Trump.
If we don't deport 'anybody, then we might as well have Open Borders.
Yeah; what would be wrong with that?
-> 1st world countries have less kids than 3rd world countries, I hear.
If you can’t tolerate it, then have lots of kids.
. . . I cannot conceive how people think it is right to allow others to usurp your blood or culture.
They aren’t; you are allowed to eat hamburgers and the migrants won’t take that right away from you.
-> Only by controlled immigration can a nation retain it's values and people.
What value(s) are you talking about? Everyone living in America right now is expected to die in 150 years.
-> Because they then use that money to illegally send more people to America.
It’s their money from jobs; let them do what they want with it. Nuns donate money to Africa all the time.
-> Besides, if Africa becomes a dependable trading partner, then said money comes back to us, along with any investments we made.
How would that be bad?
You said you value your family. How does Trump’s presidency, relative to a Harris’es presidency, make your family in a better position? I mean, Harris wanted 6 weeks paid time off by law for people’s family. Maybe your kids are older; but they will have kids, and 6 weeks paid time off would be something they would appreciate.
I mean in the 1950s, college may have cost $50 a semester ($500 with inflation) because it was heavily government subsiized. Our government saw the benefit in educating more people. It was freedom, empowering freedom; the freedom to study STEM or trades and use it to earn higher incomes. You could live on one salary back then because an educated workforce is a better one.
The article’s argument was, “More subsidies -> more demand -> raises cost”. Demand can only be so high; if 100% of young adults went to college for free, (assuming same college costs paper student), then it can be paid for with a 20% cut to the war budget that goes to help other countries. Free college = America first.
How is libertarianism more right than left overall? Think about it. I think libertarianism is more on the left.
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@SocraticGregarian96
I don’t even like Caitlan Clark (especially after her recent comments), but you are just simply lying.
What did she say?
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@WyIted
Wow orange people being politically persecuted somehow proves that white people have zero advantages.
Don't be obtuse; nobody is going after Trump for being Orange.
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@Shila
Just like slavery benefited all Americans from the lower cost of labour.
Nobody benefits from slavery that ended 160 years ago. Otherwise, Brazil would be wealthier wrt gdp per capita than Norway (they aren't because Brazil is run by conservatives and Norway isn't).
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@Dr.Franklin
Duels over honor was violence but noble.
The duelers consented.
The capacity for violence should also be among the educated, those interested in politics, etc. Violence in of itself is not bad
What if Trump got assasinated?
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People would respond, "Then how come Trump can be a convicted felon while people get mad at Obama for wearing a tan suit?"
It's not white privilege; it's republican privilege. Herschel Walker can be a hypocrite on multiple fronts; the American public on average will be more likely to defend it passionately than if Tim Waltz was hypocritical in the same way.
White privilege doesn't exist; republican privilege does.
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@Dr.Franklin
I do not consider violence in of itself bad.
1. What do you think about abortion?
2. Do you think r@pe should be legal? It's only illegal because it's violent.
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@Mharman
This is pretty funny to me. I will never understand blocking someone on a debate website, because you don't like their political opinions.
That's not the reason why I blocked a lot of people.
My reason for blocking a lot of people is because I don't think they are able to change their minds. I don't think anyone can. I think free speech is for those who are willing to change their minds. Otherwise, what's the point? It's just noise at that point.
Lila Rose's free speech is useless if she goes to planned parenthood to protest them performing abortions; this is true for any pro lifer. Planned parenthood workers aren't going to change their minds; they've been pro abortion for decades and their job depends on them performing abortions. The same is true for an atheist talking about how horrible God is in a church.
Lila Rose going on a podcast with Destiny to argue about abortion legalization would mean her free speech has the potential to be valuable; Destiny is more willing to become pro life than a planned parenthood worker.
If someone would vote for Trump even if Trump grabs a gun and shoots someone, then nothing Trump can do will piss them off (so Trump is a leader of the MAGA religion basicly). Lets say it's Trump vs Harris; if Trump gets convicted of murder and gets executed, then the right still has JD Vance to promote whatever ideas they want (even if I disagree with these ideas). I'm willing to argue with people when I believe there is a good chance they will change their mind, but I think the vast majority of MAGA does not. They were pro life at conception until Trump endorsed IVF being legal federally (with funding) and all the dead zygotes that come with it, now they are saying, "We didn't mean conception, we mean 12 weeks" all to avoid looking like a Trump religious follower, but if Trump were to say, "We need to cut the price of gas and restore the economy in red states". They want IVF legal federally (with funding), but they don't want the legalized abortion of zygotes federally (with funding) all because they shut off their brains and they let Trump be their thought leader.
If Trump tomorrow were to claim that he is the Messiah and use his rapid ear healing as "proof", and that he is going to create Trumpian Christainity as the new religion, then all the MAGA people are going to be Trump worshippers.
At that point, I would respect the Trumpian religion because they are coming as advertised. They are claiming Trump is their god; but then it means them trying to convince other people to support Trump would be akin to religious conversion. But MAGA will deny it until Trump claims he's the messiah, then they will embrace it.
I can respect an honest religion; but not a religion pretending to be a political ideology. If you call Trumpism a religion, then I won't be mad, but then you can't convince others of your religion without it being viewed as converting people (from a political perspecrive, this is more acceptable than religious because the implication with it being a poltical perspective is you are willing to change other people's minds, but you are also willing to have your own mind changed). From a religious perspective, this is not at all accurate.
I don't like arguing with people if I know they aren't going to change their minds. I'm willing to change my mind if (and only if) I believe the person I'm talking too is willing to do the same.
Yes, because I don't care about some joke he made, especially not one from 8 years ago. I'm more interested in his policies.
Ye has made similar statements, "I could say anti semetic shit and they can't drop me". Now pretty much everyone views him as anti Semitic; but I would be fine with Ye making that statement and not Trump making his because Trump was running for POTUS; Ye wasn't a serious contender. Musicians don't have power; politicians do. Therefore, politicians should be held to a higher standard.
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@ILikePie5
Lol I’m blocked, yet you’re still responding to me. Sounds like cult behavior to me
Incorrect; it happens all the time.
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@Shila
The only question to all MAGA people is why elect a convicted criminal Trump who even committed crimes when he was in office the first term.?
Because Trump is a god to them. If Trump claims to be the Messiah, uses his fast ear recovery as "proof", and calls his religion Magdated Christianity (MAGA updated) then his base will change their religion from whatever it is right now to Magdism. Even the never Trumpers are going to have to treat Magdism like any other religion; with mutual respect.
They say Trump is a felon; if Muhammad was alive in the US today, then he would be a felon as well; having sex with 9 year old girls. The left respect Islam.
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@Lemming
It doesn't need to be 'Harris's position, what matters is that I view it as her 'sides position.One's side get's pushed forward by their candidate being in office, even if their candidate does not make it their main push.
A politican listens to people to the left and right of them when making policy decisions. Ex: On Israel, her base was pro Palestine, but Biden listened to people to the right of him on that issue and enacted what they wanted.
Treat Harris like you would Biden (minus Biden being 100 years old).
Guns
Harris and I disagree on guns; but there are much bigger freedoms at play than the right to own an AR 15.
I also disagree with the million terms for gender.
I do as well, but this is a classification debate instead of social policy. Social policy is, "Should X be legal?"; a classification policy would be, "Is Maryland part of the South east USA?" (are trans women part of women?)
I say let the kids grow up a bit first, random age 18?
My rule is the # of years old you are; add 1 point. # of years you've been on HRT; add one point. I think you need a minimum of 18 pts to be allowed to get a dick snip or to have your titties taken.
Just have 4 categories for sports, men, women, trans, and any.
Professionally; if that happens, then the transwomen would be in a league 500x smaller than the women's or men's; it's not pratical.
I think the Left encourages immigration to the point it is detrimental to current inhabitants.
How is people moving in inheritely harmful to the people already here?
I think the Left 'can be hypocritical when they get immigrants in their cities, though some show amazing support.
It is hypocritical, but Trump is hypocritical on immigration as well; he wants to deport undocumented immigrants but he married multiple people who came here undocumented. If you prefer Trump to Harris based on actions vs words, then that's respectable; I'm just saying if Trump is saying he could shoot someone and not lose voters (while never claiming he went too far with that statement), then that should be a deal breaker to you; I mean, you can have another republican replace Trump (like DeSantis). If this election was DeSantis vs Harris, then I would vote for DeSantis; DeSantis has Trumpian vibes while not running a cult. I'd rather let every houshold decide for it's self whether to allow undocumented immigrants; it's the most local version of the 10th amendment (which is basicly the local rule amendment).
I am less about deporting, than I am about my government verbally and physically discouraging illegal immigration.
In order for the government to discourage undocumented immigration, they are going to have to deport some people. But why deport anybody?
I don't really care for immigration in general, but acknowledge it's use in some circumstances, our history.
Wanting to deport the undocumented means you care about immigration (just not in the way that makes sense).
I think we should try to improve third world countries to a higher standard of living, as I think a lower standard of living results in population booms.
What about keeping the money in America? Or if you want ot help Africa, then let people from there move here without restricion and (if they want), then they send their own private money home instead of taxpayer money?
I think people should value their heritage and blood.
Why? Lets say you're British; all that means is you are ethnically from an Island. It says nothing relavent about you.
Include Everyone for the sake of Diversity Movement.
Racial diversity is irrelevent.
But I 'would think excusing one batch of college kids their voluntarily accepted debt, would not fix the problem.
Understandable, but seinors got college 99% or so government subsidized; why can't Gen Z be treated the same?
Certainly something for me to think about.
Think about it for 24 hoursl let me know what your results are.
I suppose government might encourage people to go for colleges that don't cost as much,
The main reason college is cheap is because of government subsidies to it.
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@Savant
Politicians are funding wars that get civilians killed.
That is true. But if politician X starts a war that gets only 5 innocent civilians killed, then to treat that the same as that politician grabbing an AR 15 and deciding to shoot up a church and killing 5 people to me just isn't fair. With war casualities, there will be people that argue it was justified to take out the bad guys (I don't agree with these people; but they have a higher tolterance for civilian death to take out the bad guys than I do; whatever). This is different than a politician deciding to shoot someone personally. There is no justification for doing that (except sefl defense, accident, and similar).
Since Trump is a draft dodger; if he wants to fight a war in Mexico with the soliders we already have, then I won't agree, but those soliders all agreed to join the military; it is what it is. If he drafts me to fight and if he drafts other people without their consent (which is possible), then I would be mad.
And a hypothetical war seems less pressing than a real one.
Yeah; but right now we have to assume the hypothetical war will turn into a real one.
But the point is that just because he can get away with something doesn't mean he will. That's an assumption.
It will always be an assumption until he does it. But sometimes, it's ok to assume.
Example, if I say, "All these N_GGERS are annoying and they yap like wild monkeys!", then you could easily assume the missing letter is an I. If it's an A, then that's possible, but you would usually assume it's an I.
I don't think you picked the right thread title then.
MAGA often doesn't want to be known as the, "We agree with Trump 100% of the time" group, but they are and I like to call a spade a spade. Just like a lot of white suburban people don't want to be known as racist, but they move out of a city to a suburb, and if they're honest, then they say it's to get away from the blacks.
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