Total posts: 4,226
Should DART bring on new moderators?
Yes, presuming there are people who are able and willing to do it (without trying to create new rules lacking community approval).
who should those moderators be?
1. Sir.Lancelot
2. Mikal
Since my name is on the list, I'll warn voters that I'm stretching my time availability a bit already. I'm focusing on building the new site as quick as I can, but my time availability is pretty unpredictable 2+ weeks in the future. Of course, if the site absolutely needs me to mod, I'll find a way to make the time.
Should the website be rebranded to a different domain name
Yes, if we lose this one.
Should the COC prohibit the use of racial slurs?
No. There are multiple reasons I don't love this policy, but I'll just focus on the main one: I don't think "protected groups" should be singled out and it's not even clear what those are. Does it mean minority groups get protection but not majority groups?
What new features would you like to see on the new website?
1. Podcasts
2. Polls
3. Mafia ELO system
4. Add images / videos
5. Articles
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@Barney
Holocaust denial is all about the need murder any surviving Jews.
I buy that Holocaust denial is anti-semitic, but I'm not sure how saying "genocide never happened" implies a desire to keep doing genocide. If you take the words at face value, then if anything it implies an aversion to genocide. Because if one wanted to express that genocide was a good thing, why would they feel a need to deny it, rather than bragging about it? Of course, we can't necessarily take the words of Holocaust deniers at face value, but then the user is banned for what we assume they are thinking. I think banning users for something we assume they are thinking, rather than what they said, sets a pretty dangerous precedent and can't really be hate speech since it's not speech. In addition, we can't be certain that the user in question isn't just wrong or misinformed, in which case denying history doesn't necessarily have malice behind it.
If you want, I would debate you on the resolution "Holocaust denial is calling for violence."
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@Vader
Happy birthday
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@ILikePie5
Does the president have that authority? Seems like WyIted wanted Lashwnda unbanned, but that account is still gone.
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@Barney
One may dispute which method of murder Neo-Nazi trash would like to use on the remaining 15.7 million Jews, but let's not pretend that calls for ethnic cleansing are anything but calls for murder.
I'm a bit confused given the wording of the ban. Did the user in question call for ethnic cleansing, or did they just deny that it happened?
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@whiteflame
I think Lancelot's questions here are worth at least clarifying. The moderation log says chap470's ban was a joint decision. I don't know if that means unanimous or just more than one, but you can probably provide some insight here regardless.
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@Ultracrepidarian
imagine you want to buy a pair of shoes for $50. Simultaneously, a child somewhere is dying of Malaria. You can use your money instead to buy life-saving treatment for this child. Is it your moral obligation to do so?
It costs more than $50 to save a child. Top charities do it for around $4500. Not sure how to justify spending $4500 on a pair of shoes. Opportunity cost aside, it's basically throwing money away.
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@Vader
I doubt if Pie turned scum Savant was the lynch target
Lynching Pie was actually the original plan. Before Casey voted Pie confirming it was one of them, we were gonna have Pie vs. me and then Pie scum slips or something. Apparently Jerry Seinfeld speculated he was on the spectrum once but then apologized and said he didn't actually have autism, so I was gonna beat you over the head with that since you had sussed banana and I for not being formally diagnosed. I was also gonna say your role only helped town if you asked the person to claim their role before you said what the three options were, so you must have been using your scum buddy to confirm yourself. Wylted saw through the bus initially, though, so I don't know if it would have been enough to convince him.
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@Lunatic
They thought you were going to send the strengthener and hoped it would bypass a doctor protection
Ok, maybe that was Pie's logic and I just missed it lol.
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@Casey_Risk
So, I take it you redirected me to Savant? What was the strategy there?
Pie could use two JOAT abilities one night of his choosing. We role copped you as Pie suspected you might be the cop due to Elon's DOGE thing. When you turned out to be the inventor, we decided to redirect you to me so I could gain town cred. Because why would scum redirect an unknown role to themselves? But because we could use two JOAT abilities, we knew your role in advance.
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@iamanabanana
In the future if you ever get scum read for the same thing you can just point to this game. I do think it helped me in this game that I'd just been mislynched twice in a row, so people realized that me appearing to act scummy didn't necessarily mean I was scum.
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@WyIted
Why did you watch Casey?
Casey gave me a bulletproof vest, so they're role confirmed to me.
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@Vader
Maybe Savant is noob but in the case of a claimed inno child which he said was DP3, why wouldn't he target him to see if anything happened. Or better yet why wouldn't he target a claimed cop at this point to see a potential NK?
You keep repeating this point, but you seem to be starting from the assumption that I'm lying about receiving an item from Casey. Since I'm not lying, it makes sense for me to watch Casey since (a) Casey was my top town read from day 1 and (b) Casey's role is confirmed to me. Either scum were gonna let Casey be role confirmed today or interfere with her action or kill her. Whereas Pie or banana could just be lying, so it didn't make as much sense to watch them.
And isn't really convinenant that Casey just suddenly got roleblocked after the only person they targetted was myself, which convienantly got redirected to Savant, which then convienantly let Savant to see pie vist casey?
I'm not sure how any of this is "convenient." If Casey and I are a scum team, none of this would be needed because I could just say Pie visited banana instead.
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@Vader
You would be simply lying.
Again, we're talking about from my POV if I was town why would I watch someone who gave me a bulletproof vest? You don't seem to dispute that if I'm actually the watcher and telling the truth about that, I should trust Casey
he would be confirmed DP3
Or he could lie or BS something like claiming to be conveniently "vanillized." And again, I missed him saying he was dp3 child, I just remembered him saying he was DPX. So if he was scum from my POV he could just say he was dp4.
Banana, an un CC'd cop
With a miller that holds a lot more weight, but after Ultra flipped innocent, what reason did I have to believe banana? Your role claim is basically a weak cop too.
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@Vader
Role confirmation =/= affiliation indicating
Why would scum have the ability to give people bulletproof vests?
Pie is literally there claiming a DP3 innocent child and you don't watch him in case of a night kill of some sorts
I just remember Pie claiming he was inno child and not saying what day. Looking back apparently he told Casey he was dp3. But he was in no way confirmed, so why would I watch him?
we knew the NK targets would not be Casey
Why not? I didn't know that.
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@Vader
you convienantly targetted Casey, who is by no means confirmed
Since Casey was role confirmed to me and I'm the one doing the targeting, why does that not make sense?
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@Vader
When did I say they could/couldn't have more?
You said it was "underpowered." I don't see how it's underpowered if they could have more.
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@Vader
Which I guess makes sense for a Roleblock and a Redirector to exist, but even still doesn't that seem somewhat underpowered?
Why do you assume that just because scum has roleblocker and redirector means they can't have any other abilities? They could have a JOAT for all we know.
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@Vader
I don't buy that Savant as tracker wanted to watch Casey over an un CC'd cop who was probably a NK target
Except Casey is literally role confirmed to me, and it's a role I don't see scum having. Plus Ultra flipped innocent, so why would I trust banana who claimed responsibility for the fake result? Sure Casey was the one who received the result, but Casey also has a townie role. Why would scum hand out a bulletproof vest?
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@Vader
We know that a Framer exists in this game based on Ultra's turn so no matter what a Framer role HAS to exist.
Ultra was a miller. Why does a framer need to exist?
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@Vader
I received an item Casey claimed to give out, which role confirms Casey. And idk why scum would have the ability to hand out items.
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@Vader
@ILikePie5
@WyIted
@Casey_Risk
Casey was visited by Pie. Pretty sure an "innocent child" shouldn't be visiting anyone.
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@AdaptableRatman
They still are to blame lol.
Which just proves my point that people won't blame themselves.
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@Mikal
Go ahead and set up the discord how you want it
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@ILikePie5
@Casey_Risk
@Ultracrepidarian
Interested?
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@whiteflame
@Mikal
@Sir.Lancelot
We'll have to work out the format, but if it is more conversational, it's bound to be a good deal simpler to manage. I can do the line-by-line decently well, used to do it a lot. Restricting speeches to a few minutes usually isn't a problem for me. I don't mind interruptions either, though there might be a problem if they can just chime in in the middle of a point I'm making. Not the worst, but it does make a debate more haphazard.
If you're prepared, there's a guy on MDD (1stAmender) who lets people argue with him on Thursdays. He's got a list of beliefs he'll defend and will let you challenge any of them. I say we prepare you for the coming Thursday. You can watch his streams here. I'm happy to help you prepare any time this week, and anyone else who wants can be a part of the training drills as well.
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@whiteflame
@Mikal
@Sir.Lancelot
I think whiteflame is the favorite to be our representative. These platforms are pretty different from formal debates, and oftentimes it's more of a conversation format where you don't really have time to establish a framework or make a super formal argument. To win the crowd, you really do have to be winning on almost every point. If openings are allowed, that's a big help, but they're usually only a few minutes long. Plus there's a decent amount of interrupting.
To prepare WF, here's my plan: we basically have a 3v1 or something debate in VC where three of us are constantly challenging WF with studies/new arguments/etc. Once he gets good at fending off three people in real time, live debating should be a walk in the park.
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@AdaptableRatman
I need to focus on irl stuff regardless especially jobwise.
But you're also planning a revolution on the site, right? I mean if you've got time, you may as well try to be a good influence on WF and Mikal. Arguing in forums isn't the best way to achieve that.
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@Swagnarok
I'm pretty sure it was the fault of the rich until capitalism lifted the economy out of a zero-sum game based on rent extraction
And human nature hasn't changed. People will still blame the rich for people starving on the streets.
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@AdaptableRatman
meddling with the demonic
WF and Mikal aren't literally demons. If they're in danger of being possessed by demons, then abandoning them probably makes the problem worse. Especially if you believe you could be a good influence.
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@Swagnarok
then the average person will be forced to take a good look in the mirror and confront their own personal willingness (or lack thereof) to sacrifice for a stranger's sake, and the absurdity of demanding a duty from another that one does themselves shirk
Centuries ago when people were starving on the streets, people blamed the rich. Why would they blame anyone else now?
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@AdaptableRatman
Defeat your enemy by making him your friend.
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@AdaptableRatman
Na I am not at all happy to work with a seriously abusive person who frankly shouldnt be allowed on this website at and who has said a lot he has to apologise for to me
First, you don't have to work with Mikal, you can just work with whiteflame at separate times. Second, if you work with him, he's more likely to apologize. Third, is it any better arguing with him in the forums?
As for the mdd fame angle, that would lead to potential doxxing of me
You can stay behind the scenes helping WF train.
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@Bones
I know you'd probably be interested in this project.
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@Mikal
We can start training well before the new site is out or do development at the same time. I think to get an audience with those people, it would help for WF to already have a reputation crushing debaters on the Discord.
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@AdaptableRatman
Would you be interested in this? It seems like you're interacting with a lot of these people already, and I know deep down you do respect some of them. Seems like you're less likely to be bullied if we're not competing against each other.
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@Mikal
Issue is getting Hasan/Destiny/Vaush to do it. They have no incentive to actually want to debate and you would need to be ready to capitalize on the momentum and promote the site/new site. Most of them won’t take formal debaters.
You'd be surprised. Dillahunty went against a decent formal debater and seemed rather unprepared. Then there was the infamous Vaush H2O debate. I think they'd be fine going against someone as long as we prove they aren't a nobody.
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@whiteflame
@Mikal
@Sir.Lancelot
@WyIted
@AdaptableRatman
Thoughts?
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The Robbers Cave experiment, conducted by Muzafer Sherif in the 1950s, studied intergroup conflict and cooperation among 22 boys in Oklahoma. Initially separated into two groups, they developed group identities. Introducing competitive tasks led to hostility between groups. Later, cooperative tasks reduced this conflict, highlighting the role of shared goals in resolving group tensions.
I propose that instead of arguing with each other, we band together with one goal: defeat a notable streamer on Modern-Day Debate. How do we do this? Well, instead of isolating ourselves by simply competing with each other, we select one representative and devote our energy to helping train them for a live debate. Ideally we can pick someone like whiteflame who already has experience in that regard.
I know a lot of the people arguing with each other on this site consider each other friends. There's no reason to fight each other when we can be combining our efforts to send someone against professional debaters like Destiny, Vaush, and Dillahunty. All of them are on MDD, and all we need is a willing challenger who can prove themselves on that platform and petition to go against a top-level debater. With our skills combined, we have everything we need to train someone to that level.
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@Vader
tracker claim (Who was it someone please tell me
No one claimed tracker. I'm the watcher.
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@Casey_Risk
Pie was pivoting to setting up a mislynch on Owen in Mayday Mafia. I think he may have been doing the same thing here. He gives Ultra too much credit for what happened in that game, and I think it's on purpose.
I guess there could maybe be a framer involved, but that means having to guess who gets investigated. It is possible, but it requires scum to get lucky. I'll take another look at dp1 behavior though.
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@Casey_Risk
I guess it's not technically impossible for me to have that and be scum, but it's pretty rare.
Fair enough. If one of you two is lying, it's probably banana. Though I don't know why banana would stick their neck out like that when you already had the guilty result, so I think it's unlikely Ultra flips town.
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@Casey_Risk
If Ultra should flip town, who does that most implicate?
I guess it depends on his role, but unless he's the miller or something, it would implicate you and banana the most.
What do you make of my bulletproof vest going to Savant? What do you think the scum team did and why?
If it was a deflector or bus driver, I would have seen you visiting, so that leaves a redirector. As for why scum would redirect you to me, it depends on what they thought your role was.
what do you think of my role + innocent child + vaders role + savants role all being town?
I guess it's possible with so many 1x modifiers, plus we don't know what countermeasures scum have. But yeah, there's a decent chance someone is lying about being investigative.
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@Swagnarok
Core spending would cover necessary government functions, such as defense, policing, infrastructure, debt repayments, etc. A sizable chunk of the budget, perhaps a majority of all Federal spending, would fall into this camp. This would be covered by tax revenue just as it is now.
Why are those government functions necessary and not other functions? Maybe the state would collapse without policing and infrastructure, but what how much infrastructure is necessary? How high can crime rates get before the government has failed at its necessary duties? There are also anarchists who would argue preserving the state isn't necessary.
If those kids went to bed hungry then that would be a moral indictment of you.
People can already donate to the government and they don't take it as a moral indictment of themselves if they don't. Why do you think they would say anything other than to tax the rich? That's what they say now, I don't see why it would change just because you lowered taxes for everyone.
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@Vader
Each night I choose a person
I thought you said it was 1x?
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