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@Best.Korea
What is the letter of the key that is marked "1"?
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@zedvictor4
Is Alberto real.Otherwise it's just two opinionated people, getting along but never quite agreeing.Pretty typical behaviour.Especially for two comparative strangers, discussing contentious topics.
The other character in the story is real, but his name is not Alberto.
I do think it is funny when picturing the way I feel about my conversations with Alberto in retrospect.
It's sort of like those comical scenes in movies where two guys just keep on bothering each other, but then at the end of the day they still have a friendship
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@Best.Korea
Questions for some people are mainly "emotional arguments" which try to put burden of proof on opponent and which try to force opponent to explain what you tell him to.Questions are not arguments, obviously. They are just very good at presenting themselves as they were.
Yeah, I agree with that.
Your counter to questions have been helpful when I try to use them.
They make me feel more relaxed.
Sometimes I would get too stressed about the convo, which made me want to think harder and explain more, but this did not aid me in presenting myself better.
Sort of like a backfire with trying too hard.
Sarcasm helps keep the convo light, and it can make the other guy feel like maybe this argument isn't that serious
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@Lemming
It could be that some of his questions were rhetorical, and I didn't realize.
Though I think for most of his questions he wants them to be answered directly, and it felt like nagging to me so that's why I was annoyed.
After a few days of venting a little, I've come to understand that basically I am just annoyed with the way he is inquisitive in conversation, so I'll probably just talk less with him.
And not that asking questions in principle is bad, just, I negatively view the way he does it.
Not that I dislike him, but I would prefer less convo with him
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@McMieky
Oh, hello. My LARP character is that I'm the best penguin in the world
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We both believe in God, and so he thought my reasoning was ignoring God's commands of right and wrong and instead focusing on my own rationale.(I have my own thoughts to share about that above, but I've already typed a lot so I'll skip it for sake of relevance + being concise.)
Getting into this would explain more my criticisms of Alberto.
I might make another forum thread about it
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Intro
I have a little story to share about some recent things.
I have a friend that I have made not too long ago (let's call him Alberto), and he likes to ask questions about what I think and do a lot.
That's not bad in itself, because I do enjoy my beliefs being tested and seen from different perspectives.
It's just I have an issue with the way he asks his questions and his argument style.
Examples
I'll give some examples of how he thinks:
1. Alberto said that people who use 24-hour time are only "trying to be different."
I thought that sounded weird, and lo and behold, I found out that 2/3 of the population of the world use 24-hour time.
People don't use "military time" to stand out, it's actually more commonly used than 12-hour time.
2. The other day, I was telling him how I prefer computers over iPads, and he seemed to prefer the latter so one of his first questions was, "Honestly, what can a computer do that an iPad can't do?"
Someone who asks this question clearly does not know very much about computers.
Issue with the mode of questioning from Alberto
Now, the reason those conversations bother me is because of the way Alberto asks a question.
He asks a question like he's making a point--the question itself is a point to him, and I've noticed other people do this too.
But, the way I see it, a question is not a point, it is a prompt.
People carry so much confidence in an inquiry because they expect the person they're talking with to automatically understand the implications from the question, but understanding the points implied is not in the same stage as hearing the question.
I'll say it again, a question is not a statement, it is a prompt.
The problem is that people treat their question like it's a really important fact they've just shared.
I don't think these types of people know how to argue well, but this style of arguing is effective at slowing the other person down as I have experienced because:
1. The receiver has to first understand the question--the same as understanding any question.
2. But then secondly, the receiver is forced to try to read the inquisitor's mind because the inquisitor did not give a point, only a question, and the points are hidden in the question.
So this slows down the receiver's thought process by having to basically explain the inquisitor's point for them in his head before replying, which can take too long and thus the inquisitor can start to take the lead from the receiver taking too long to answer back.
Prime Example: Stealing batteries from Walmart
I'll give my best example of my problem with arguing with Alberto.
I accidentally stole batteries from Walmart the other night when Alberto and I went shopping for supplies together.
They were in my pocket and I had forgotten I put them there, purchased my other stuff, and then walked out the door.
I realized before we left the parking lot, and so I went back inside to pay for my batteries.
I explained why I did this to Alberto.
I started out with saying how I try to think about what is wrong to do in principle, such as asking myself, "Would X act be okay for me to do still if everyone else in the world did it?"
"Would X act be okay for me to do if it was a universal law?"
I didn't think everyone stealing batteries from Walmart was okay, so I decided to redeem myself.
I also explained how I didn't want to make a habit of stealing things because habits start small and then grow, and they can begin with things like stealing batteries from Walmart and being fine with that.
We both believe in God, and so he thought my reasoning was ignoring God's commands of right and wrong and instead focusing on my own rationale.
(I have my own thoughts to share about that above, but I've already typed a lot so I'll skip it for sake of relevance + being concise.)
Alberto led with the question, "What is good and bad?"
My immediate thought was "This is vague because he didn't give much context to it. Like, is he asking what are good and bad things to do?"
And it's a big question too.
I felt kind of stumped because I didn't know how to respond at first. The question seemed out of the blue since there was no support he had given for it.
I provided context by saying murder was bad, and then he asked why is murder bad.
I said for reasons such as it being an act of hatred and personal revenge.
Then he said why is killing bad which is not what I said, and this is where you can see I start to become annoyed with the way he argues.
More about Alberto's arguing
He likes to ask questions a lot without giving many points.
I've noticed this can make a person seem smart because the asker can become the conductor of the conversation easily by leading it with their questions.
It's more of a facade though because it doesn't actually display much knowledge of the topic, more like a distraction from letting anyone know that he doesn't know as much as you would think.
A question is not an explanation of anything which is something you need in order to argue, so Alberto does not understand the fundamentals of debating.
It seems like he eventually gets bored with my continuous answers, probably because I go a bit slower to counter him seemingly trying to speed things up for a quick victory by just asking big questions that can take a while to answer or not really giving any points at all, so the person he's talking to has to carry the weight of any meat of the topic being shared or explained.
An Ending
And the reason he questions me so frequently is because I tell him some of my deeper beliefs about life and the way I act.
I do this to sharpen my ability to explain myself, to make conversation, or to see if I'm actually wrong about something.
And, truly, I have it coming when he starts to question me because I know how he thinks, and I can tell when he is going to probe me with his own thoughts against mine.
I'd appreciate any thoughts from you guys!
Any similar situations?
Similar friends?
Ever steal batteries from Walmart?
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@JoeBob
My family tends to have a meal of cheese fondue with an assortment of food to dip with.
We’ll also watch some movies and enjoy each other’s company
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@Casey_Risk
Interested in joining us for another game?
Thanks for the offer, but I can't right now. I'm finishing up the semester, and then I'll have more free time afterwards.
I haven't really been active in two weeks or so. I only log in when I get an email notif.
Unfortunately, I forfeited one round in both of my current debates. If I do anything on here, it's just going to be responding to debates for now
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@Best.Korea
Is your solution that the government hands out all of the resources to its citizens?
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Speaking of clowns
Props to the bro
For getting so slow
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I have been busy with upcoming final projects and exams, as well as the usual grind that college demands.
(Why am I even going to college? *[insert goofy grin that hides depression and purposelessness]*)
I will have more time tomorrow to read everything
Stay crazy
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@Best.Korea
I am #824 on the leaderboard. I have much to learn from Best.Korea. It's an art form I have experience with but one I am surely no master of
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I hope this all makes more sense the more I play. Fingers, toes, eyes, and farmer suspenders crossed in hope
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@Mharman
It's obvious. The people who got tagged with this video are the Mafia since the song is about trolling, and as the Mafia you troll the town
The people who got tagged with this video are the townies because it says "You are an idiot!!!" in the clip since they're clueless to who are the Mafia
Only Banana got tagged for this one. Which means... *shrug*
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@Mharman
I identify as a Russian troll
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@WyIted
I got another role PM, not sure what it means eitherWhy did you share that? It wasn't a role PM, now everyone knows I am a massive faggot
What is Mafia anymore with messages like these? 😂
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@iamanabanana
I'd consider joining but if pie is a jerk again I will probably just quit. So if he can behave himself maybe I will join
I can't comment on how Pie treated you in your Mafia games because I didn't witness it, but I saw how he behaved in my Mafia game with him. If people are heavily interrogated or viewed as scum even early on, it can't be taken personally.
By nature of the game, everyone (at least a decent player) must develop a persona of being deceptive and looking out for themselves first. One has to adapt their character to the rules of the game in order to win. People will lie and be cunning, and that's just how you play.
I hope you stay. Mafia games are fun
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@Owen_T
Finally something I won't suck at
What do you usually suck at doing?
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@CatholicApologetics
I bet everyone has a different answer if they were to be asked. Some would say they simply aren't religious because of their current beliefs and leave it at that. They would argue that their worldview is not a religion due to its definition.
Personally, I think otherwise because everybody holds something as the most valuable in their life, whether it is an ideal, person, activity, or object; how is this any different than viewing that item as sacred? More to the point, what does it mean for something to be sacred to you besides that which you hold in the highest place? Everyone has something or somebody that sits on that pedestal. We all venerate something in our lives. We all seek comfort in some over-arching ideal that holds our view of reality together, and we seek refuge and peace in it. We cleave to our core belief with all our might. This practice seems to me like how someone would treat a god, even if the existence of god(s) is denied, so I think we all conjure a god of sorts. With my worldview, I believe there are idols/fake gods that are sought after from corruption of the mind and body and spiritual deprivation, and that there is only one true God.
Existential questions lead us to what we fashion as our belief system:
Who am I? What is the description and definition of me?
What is my purpose? What am I meant to do in my life?
What is right for me to do? So then, what is wrong for me to do? Is something that is right for me to do the same as what is right for others? Should my actions be viewed as universal laws, in which case, I should only do what I think would be right for everyone else to be doing it as well?
Many other important questions become present when we question life. And death.
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@Cerulean
Funny, my father went to Mizzou. I even have a couple of shirts from there.
That's cool your father went there. I don't go to Mizzou, but I've had a lot of experiences there, and for the mean time I am living very close by. Although come January, I will be somewhere entirely different. I don't like where I am right now
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@Cerulean
First thread I click on in Mafia Universe was made by someone called BigMenLover9923. Seems like a loving community
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Is this your way of telling me that you're waiting for me to respond in our debate together?
Round 2 is coming to a debate website near you
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@Mharman
Ceru, any of your MU friends up for a bastard game?
If by MU you Mizzou University then it's a small world to be honest
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@Earth
I'll get to see how you fit into mafia as a player instead of a moderator.
By the way, do you create the theme and character roles yourself? Is there a structure you follow?
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@Mharman
Sounds fun, Mhar. I was thinking of taking a step back for the next round of a mafia game, but this very untraditional take has me intrigued!
I want to be a clown. A clown in da car
/In
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Any tips for future reference with what I did? I'd appreciate some feedback.
The game was really fun. It's like a multi-faceted debate with loads of deception and manipulation involved. The themes and characters and abilities make it very interesting too
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I probably would've done better as a Mafia. I would've been more careful with what I said. I was too naive with feeling safe being a townie
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If you are town sorry, but if you are scum I want you to know you played extremely well and none of us was as good as you are as fast as you.
I probably should've been more honest in my gameplay. I did a lot of things that backfired really badly. Really easy to take what I said against me. Well-played mafias
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I was looking at his posts from a year ago and a lot look like this
Man, I forgot I said that. Two years feels forever ago. I get surprised I was able to talk like that in high school. Doesn't seem like me.
I guess I'll die a bit more happily while I get hanged, getting lost in nostalgia
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@WyIted
The fact you keep using the term roleblock, doesn't exactly help your case
That's what the Jailkeeper does. I can also protect someone, but I wouldn't know who
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@WyIted
If you are town than barney is 100% scum and it makes no sense for him to not be the one carrying out the NK
That's why I roleblocked him in np2. Because I thought he would be doing the night kill
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Shouldn't we vote on the person we originally thought as a majority we were very certain was mafia? Sure, I look guilty. But isn't JoeBob like a guaranteed mafia?
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I can't argue my way out of this. I'm kind of embarrassed honestly.Though if I am lynched, mafia wins
That was probably hasty thing to say. But I think you guys will end up voting me out
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I can't argue my way out of this. I'm kind of embarrassed honestly.
Though if I am lynched, mafia wins
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@WyIted
I never said I looked through several previous games. I looked at one or two to see how things go
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@WyIted
I was looking at his posts from a year ago and a lot look like thisHe seems thoughtful and intelligent. I don't think he is stupid enough to think "you win with town" makes you third party. Especially after claiming to have read several games and read the op each dp
I think one of my faults is I overanalyze small things such as the phrase "you win with town." I'm trying to think out loud even if it might sound like a stupid thing to say
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@ILikePie5
I am Huff N. Puff, the leader of a gang of Ruff Puffs keeping Flower Fields cloudy and permanently overcast by my cloud making machine.What does any of this have to do with protecting or role blocking someone?I suspect Barney had the fake claim with the Dreaming God and Jr Koopa because the justification is there.Every other townie’s justification makes sense and links the role to character, except Skipper
You want more of my character description? I thought I gave enough.
Overseeing my efforts in the clouds, I block the sun from rising into the sky. Thus, I am a Jailkeeper
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@ILikePie5
2) Skippy claims he targeted Cerulean NP1. If he did, he should’ve received a message from Earth saying: “Your action failed” because Cerulean commuted NP1. Skippy never said that his action failed and claims he never got a message from Earth, which has to be a lie if he’s telling the truth about targeting Cerulean
Earth could have forgotten to tell me that my action failed. I thought no response meant it didn't fail, but then in np2 Earth told me my roleblock on JoeBob was confirmed, so a positive response from the mod is necessary to confirm success. Earth probably forgot to tell me
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@Casey_Risk
Commuter is active. A Commuter can choose whether to commute or not. Only Ascetic is passive.
Yeah, that makes sense. My mistake
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@ILikePie5
@WyIted
@JoeBob
@Casey_Risk
Guys, I think I have been misinterpreting what Earth told me since the game first started.
I was rereading what Earth told me, and the message doesn't actually specifically say I am a townsfolk. It only says "you win with the town." I would've been told explicitly that I am on the town, right? I think this means I am really a third-party player. That makes sense since my character description is of being a gang leader, like I have my own business to attend to.
I think I put this whole party on tilt when I said at the beginning I was town
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@ILikePie5
That all depends on me to have actually been telling the truth that I have the Jailbreaker role. If was Mafia, wouldn't I have lied about that and said I have a different role?Ya, I think you’re a Mafia Roleblocker.
Dude, if I was scum with a roleblocking ability, I would not have said out loud what my ability was. Maybe there are strategies to that, but not a good one in this game right now.
What makes you think I lied about roleblocking Cerulean? Is it only because Luna's ability failed? Would you clarify the chronological line of thought that you had to suspect me? For example, did you first suspect me because you think I lied, or because Luna's ability failed?
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@ILikePie5
One of you and Skipper has to be scum cause 3 role failing roles make zero sense, especially with 2 powerful investigative roles.What are the three roles that failed? Did this happen in one night?Commuter causes actions to failAscetic causes actions to failJailkeeper causes actions to fail
Oh, I misunderstood what you were saying there. I thought your English was messing up or something. So you were saying that there are three roles that have the ability to roleblock or "role-fail" as you said. I thought you were saying that three abilities were used, and all of them failed.
After brushing up on what the roles do from the google docs list, those three roles do not seem crazy to be present in one game. The reason being that two of them are passive--Commuter and Ascetic--and only one is active--Jailkeeper
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@ILikePie5
You believe I didn't roleblock Cerulean but instead roleblocked Lunatic because he was told his ability failed. Before dp1 ended, I gave my thoughts on Mhar and Luna, and then later we were told Mharman was lynched and actually a townie. I could see someone thinking that because Mhar was innocent, I may have then suspected Luna so I roleblocked him.You probably didn’t even do the actions. But let me explain. As mafia, you and Barney/Joe know that Mharman and Luna are town. So you know that after Mharman was lynched, Luna is still alive and is a Toen Watcher. Thus, Barney/Joe has you roleblock Luna, so he couldn’t use his action and possibly catch the killer
That all depends on me to have actually been telling the truth that I have the Jailbreaker role. If was Mafia, wouldn't I have lied about that and said I have a different role?
But Luna wasn't my first or even my second option for scum and probably not my third either. There were others I would've targeted before him. I was suspicious of Ceru during dp1You’re mafia. Whatever you say, I don’t believe. You’ve been caught in a lie, and your role’s existence doesn’t make sense with Wylted’s role existence. From your POV, Wylted should be scum.
Me not having the best insight into who I should think is scum does not mean I am mafia. You're conjoining two separate points
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