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@TheRealNihilist
Where is your evidence that UK law is made some-place else?
I suppose you think that is another trick question. Are you trying to tell me that Europe doesn't decide and dictate any UK law?
will make the UK create another referendum
So the government decision to offer a "one time only" democratic referendum to stay or leave the EU, means absolutely fk all to you then. I am not surprised.The words of a quisling if ever I head them. You still haven't said where your from, but I don't realy give a shite.
You should be saying they were not elected by the public
I already did at #14. Where I clearly said :
" Junker is not elected by the electorate i.e the citizens of any country. I didn't vote for the tawts. DID YOU?? I didn't vote for vote for the French drunken turd, DID YOU!? I didn't vote for a single member of the European Commision who have elected a president for themselves, DID YOU? If you cannot grasp this the get off the thread your wasting my time and your own."
But your head is so far up your own jacksey you seems to have missed it, I should consult a surgeon, if I were you. I told you; you are not as clever as you believe yourself to be, and anyone who has had a part in convincing you that you are clever are not your friends, they are your enemies and my friends. And there is no cure for buffoonery but there is still a chance of a position when the circus comes to town, so don't give up.
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@keithprosser
In my view, islam was invented as a political device - it was intended to forge unity aross a pan-arabian empire containing a wide variety of ethnicities and religions.
What is your evidence that Islam was invented and intended to forge a unity of religions?
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@Greyparrot
So it's not just an American thing that political elites want to thwart the will of the people. America has the impeach Trump movement, and UK has the remainiacs.
Apparently not GP. I believe Donald Trump is the greatest president Great Britain never had.
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@Snoopy
Do you think Christians pose a threat to you, your people, or your country?
You may not realize it but that is a tricky question.
If a Christian Western country attacked the U.K. (another Christian country) in the name of Christianity and or a god/Christ of the "Christian religion" then without doubt I would think that. But you see, WWI & WWII were not religious wars to my knowledge.
So am I a "Christianophobe" because I have started over 25 threads on this forum criticising and questioning Christianity and the bible?
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@keithprosser
I get the impression that your heart isn't really as into being anti-Christian as it is when you are being anti-Isamic!
I am not anti Christian and I don't fear Christianity. I have absolutely no reason to . So you, jumping to conclusions have started off on the wrong foot already and made a wrong opinion of me without a single piece of evidence.. . I simply have problems with the Bible (the NT in particular) in the way that it has come down to us and in the way it has been taught to us.
people who want to criticise islam have to face up to the problem that much criticism of islam is motivated by racism and xenophobia -
Opinion. A typical opinion of apologist such as yourself who have never been able to produce a counter argument so simply default to the same old shite.. But let's stick to the point of the thread.
I don't believe that I suffer from "christianophobia" and I am amazed that considering my criticism of Christianity far far out ways my criticism of Islam yet no one has accused me of being a racist bigot who is spreading hate, and fear and division when it comes to Christianity, although I have been accused of of running a " petty little indoctrination class" when I criticise and question Christianity.
the sort of person who formerly filled the ranks of the NF and BNP are now on the anti-islam wandwagon.
Opinion again, prosser.
Veiled insults and accusations about someone you know absolutely nothing about.Get off the thread you buffoon or answer the question. This thread is about "christianophobia" and not for you to start spreading your veiled hate and division.
Frankly, you frequently come over as an old fashioned racist, just replacing coloured people with muslims.
Yes you have said similar before. So I will ask you again to produce the evidence for your accusations. But look closely at what you have wrote above there. This is you trying your hardest to squeeze a argument for racism out of an impossibility. It doesn't work, and this is why there are leftist liberal apologists such as yourself are in the process of attempting to change the English language so it that will support your argument. See here>>https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/1527
I don't mean you come over that way to me -
"not me, not me". You have changed your tune. Sounds like backpedaling and or just outright lies. You have made your opinion of me extremely clear on many occasions even going as far to accuse me of "radicalisation" of people to the far right, so away with your pretense of - in the name of fairness and diplomacy..
it's the way you come over to everyone on DArt
Everyone? so you speak for all members then?
and that is why you get accused of being an islamophoe but not a christianophobe.
Yes, accused by you and 1 or 2 others. And I do have the evidence for that accusation should you wish to see it despite your denials above.
Like I have said, I have criticized Christianity and the New Testament far far more that I ever have Islam:
See here>>>.https://www.debateart.com/participants/Stephen/forum_topics?page=6<<<<< 26 to 5, but you don't seem to mind that. No, you have had no qualms at all, and have never accused me of being racist, spreading hate and division or of being Christianophobic, there have you?
You don't mind it being open season on the subject of Christianity, but woe betide anyone who criticises Islam. That behaviour is nothing short of blatant left wing liberal bias that shouldn't have a place on any forum. You must have shares in the website, as I have seen no criticism of you for your obvious bias. Your not a mod here as well are you? I wouldn't be surprised.
To avoid it, find a different style. Or don't change style and continue to be thought of as a bigoted racist -
By you. Yes I know. but I am neither of those you accuse me of being. But you're entitled to your opinion as long as you can support that opinion when accusing people of things they are not. Having an opinion of things/ideas is far far different than to having an opinion of people. You should keep that in mind
it's your choice.
I know that too.
So, can you now answer the question, am I Christianophobic?
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@Greyparrot
Just about say it all doesn't it?
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@RationalMadman
Yes, it brings a lump to the throat. I was totally surprised that the anti Brexit and left wing anti English BBC didn't edit this part out of the proms.
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@keithprosser
So Paradise was originally conceived as more about the absence of the hard aspects of the daily life.
Nice opinion. But we are talking dead people in a place called paradise, by all accounts.
But christianity teaches that paradise (which simply means walled garden) is an actual place where good, dead, sinless people reside. As spoken by the Christ. Luke 23:43
The paradise they were promised is not described in any detail,
But a place all the same.. I just want to know what it is that those sinless enough to reach it will be doing in this place apart from "being with" the lord.
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There are many here who are quick to label anyone criticizing Islam, the quran and muslims as islamophobic and racists bigots. But I have yet to be labeled an Christianophobic racist bigot with an irrational and uncontrollable fear or dread (which is the correct definition of a phobic person) when I criticise Christianity / Christians for believing much of the superstitious nonsense that they have been taught. And no mention of me spreading fear and \hatred.
Or when I have criticised The New Testament for its half truths, false stories, its enigmatic and ambiguous verses and for calling it extremely flawed.
I haven't been called a Christianophobia racist bigot when I have criticised the Old Testament when calling it a war book where mankind is controlled by a warmongering psychotic and schizophrenic jealous god and his human cohorts and also for its superstitious nonsense. Or have I been accused of spreading hatred and fear although I have been accused of some kind of being on some kind of "radicalisation" mission.
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@Melcharaz
this attempt to undermine me because you don't understand "Being" in the spiritual context is laughable.
Don't be silly. I have no intention of "undermining you". I want to know the answer to a question that you should know. But you don't.
you don't understand "Being"
I understand the word "being" and I understand the word "with". I want to know what I will be doing while I am "being with the lord"? I was "being with my grandchildren" yesterday and we were doing lots of things.
So stop ignoring and whining about me not understanding and attempting to "undermine you".
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Yeah the European Council elected by the people who voted for their Prime Minister.
No, You are getting the commision mixed up with the eu council which IS UNELECTED you buffon, how many times .
Why do you want to vote on the head of the EU?
Who said I did. I don't and didn't ask for a vote on the head of the EU. I voted to leave in a democratically held referendum. Which this corrupt government are determined to overturn the will of the people.
You still have that under the EU and guess what they even protect these issues you have.
Nope. We do not have home rule for a start. A country making laws for other countries is not home rule . I have explained this already but your a little dense to take it all in. Never mind.
This does not help my position.
Which doesn't surprise me at all. You poor soul. But I don't particularly care about "your position" and I cannot do anything about buffoonery,either.
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@TheRealNihilist
As of right now the Queen can simply on whim say she wants to go to war whereas the Prime Minister I think requires approval of the House of Commons.
Absolute nonsense.
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@TheRealNihilist
Bad initial argument. If it was legal to punch you in the face would you be for that?
Learn to read. I said apart from the ILLEGALITY
Are you telling me the UK had no identity when they were in the EU? What are UK practices?
No. Stop being silly. I am saying we (17.5 million )want to keep the identity we have had for millena along with all our one laws and statues that have been developed over centuries and not be told what we can and cannot do. There was also these points you seem to have ignored _ I also said; autonomy, independence, self-government, self-rule, home rule, self-legislation, self-determination, non-alignment and freedom.
That was a trick question.
I didn't find it "tricky" at all. You're not as clever as you like to think you are. You should study my reply carefully and stop acting like a dunce. And we, here in Great Britain have laws in place to keep despotic Monarchies in check. Have you never heard of the Bill of Rights and the fkn Magna Carta?
You didn't answer my question. What if the UK voted to remove a law?
You didn't ask that so stop lying. what you asked was :
Is removing laws inherently wrong?
AND I REPLIED>.
Yes. Although it is a fact that some laws are and do become obsolete. Such as cleaning your doormat after 8am. And of course new laws have to be created.
If lets say there was a law passed right now in the UK that made blacks become second class citizens? You would be against removing it after it was passed as law right?
Hypothetical nonsense. . It wouldn't get passed the first reading. Stop being silly. Stop trying to be clever. You are showing yourself to be the opposite of clever.
President Junker is elected by the European CouncilEach new President is nominated by the European Council and formally elected by the European Parliament, for a five-year term. As of 2019, the current President is Jean-Claude Juncker, who took office on 1 November 2014. He is a member of the European People's Party (EPP) and is the former Prime Minister of Luxembourg.
Yes, so what!? Junker is not elected by the electorate i.e the citizens of any country. Try reading what you have posted. - "by the European Council" - who are also unelected. So you have a bunch of unelected bureaucrats ELECTING their own fkn president. I didn't vote for the tawts. DID YOU?? I didn't vote for vote for the French drunken turd, DID YOU!? I didn't vote for a single member of the European Commision who have elected a president for themselves, DID YOU? If you cannot grasp this the get off the thread your wasting my time and your own.
No you haven't. If you haven't in your next response and you are reading this tell me why you value sovereignty ....
I have answered this twice now. Your just ignoring my responses. So for the third time and last time: I value it because it enshrines autonomy, independence, self-government, self-rule, home rule, self-legislation, self-determination, non-alignment and freedom.
All these above are being eroded by a foreign power.
It was not that long ago these wankers in Europe were telling us we couldn't sell straight bananas and shopkeepers were being arrested for refusing to use kilo's instead of pounds.. The last time I looked 82% of legislation ( that is thousands of new laws ) came from these bastards and agree with by the bastard traitors in the British parliament. I wasn't consulted, WAS YOU!? This includes over 19,000 directives,170,00 pieces of legislation.
And you seem to have ignored my question. I asked you above:
What country are you from?
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@Melcharaz
Then what? What will "we" be doing?be with the lord forever.
Doing what? What will those from among mankind and have remained sinless and "walked in the way of the lord" actually be doing?Did you miss this? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^being with the lord
You simply do not know do you. You come here preaching truth and telling us how fkn "sinful" we are and accuse me of "not understanding" and yet you cannot answer a question that christianity has had over 2,000 years to come up with an answers. I bet your god is ashamed of you, or at least your teacher, either way, you have done both a great disservice.
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@TheRealNihilist
Why should the UK value sovereignty?
Are you serious?
Sovereignty is the full right and power of a governing body over itself, without any interference from outside sources or bodies. <<<< That should speak for itself.
What is so wrong about redistributing power to a foreign nation?
Hahhah.I won't profess to know the in's and out's of this classical mess by you really do not understand this at all do you? So apart from the illegality of it all that I have already pointed out above , this is not "redistributing", this is total takeover of every aspect and field of a nation's identity and practices. In layman's terms, it takes away autonomy, independence, self-government, self-rule, home rule, self-legislation, self-determination, non-alignment and freedom.
Are you for a monarchy or dictatorship?
If you mean me personally? At this moment in time I would prefer a Monarchy but at any time I would never choose a dictatorship. Unfortunately Her Majesty has been reduced to nothing more than a mascot and has become the fairy tale Princess in the Tower. Go back and read #1
Prime Ministers and MP’s have committed treason and sedition, by deceiving Queen Elizabeth into breaking the Act of Supremacy of 1559.
Are you for a democracy?
I am. But we are being dictated to by the EU and now our own fkn government who cares not for the DEMOCRATIC will of the people .
What if it was democratic?
????! Great Britain is a democracy. Or should I say supposed to be? What country are you from?
Is removing laws inherently wrong?
Yes. Although it is a fact that some laws are and do become obsolete. Such as cleaning your doormat after 8am. And of course new laws have to be created.
“No foreign Prince, Person, State Potentate. Hath or ought to have any power, Jurisdiction, Superiority, supremacy, or authority Ecclesiastic or spiritual in the Realm heretofore claimed...Are the EU breaking this?
I would say yes on the grounds that the 28 members of EU Commision are all unelected. But when your own country freely hands over it's sovereignty to a foreign power thereby breaking the Act of Supremacy of 1559 then the receiver can not be totally held to blame. It is Great Britain who have broken the law against the will of its own citizens and this is why I all calling them - rightfully - The Treasonous Treacherous BASTARDS!!!!!! go back and read # 1
Prime Ministers and MP’s have committed treason and sedition, by deceiving Queen Elizabeth into breaking the Act of Supremacy of 1559.
Why do you value this so much?
Value what? If you mean Sovereignty, then I have already answered and explained this to you in my reply to your first question above.
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@Yassine
Where is your outpouring for the millions of Muslim deaths by western countries?
BS!
It has been estimated that nearly 2,000,000 people demonstrated in London alone against the wars in Iraq. But again this is not about MY outpouring is it, There have been plenty of candlelight vigils and songs of peace from the western civilisation for others. No,this thread is about the lack of condemnation from the so so integrated muslim community telling us in the west that they condemn and deplore what is done by muslims in the name of islam and Allah. No not once have heard the words "not in my name" coming from the followers of the "religion of peace".
The western media have soon forgotten those poor souls murdered in the terrorist attack on the train in the Netherlands, the day following the massacre at Christchurch. No, there were no candlelight vigils and songs of "give peace a chance " from the muslim population in utrecht there either. Indeed this terrorist attack by a Turkish muslim came straight on the back of the vile and inflammatory speech muslim Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan gave against the west.
No, what we got instead from the muslim community in Christchurch is racial and religious hatred and inflammatory speech spouted at a "love and peace rally" by a muslim preacher who has spoken at the largest mosque in New Zealand and who had, just day before, had shared a platform with the silly NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern who for some strange reason wore hijab, the oppressive compulsory head covering that Iranian women are casting off at the cost of imprisonment and torture.
Indeed, " I won't mince my words" says Ahmed Bhamji, "it was the local Jewish businesses that funded him [ Brenton Tarrant ] and Mossad were behind it" . Yes, these inflammatory words of incitement where Ahmed Bhamji chose to point the finger at local jewish neighbours came at a Love Aotearoa (NZ) Hate Racism rally .
He certainly didn't hold back
Ahmed Bhamji deliver his hate filled rant here in this 5min video >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVasVStyRMY&t=168s
And no one to my knowledge, to date has taken this preacher to task over his inflammatory hate speech in public. Although the local chrsitchurch jewish community had this to say:
" Bhamji's words "are dangerous lies,” and that “They put the Jewish community at risk, at a time of heightened security concerns"
I am sure the muslim apologists will have us believe that these Jews are nothing but irrational nasty "islamophobes" .
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@Greyparrot
Why does Brussels know what is best for England?
It only thinks it does because it was encouraged to by our own elite, self serving treacherous bastards. Who have rode roughshod over the Act of Supremacy of 1559.
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I commented on another thread:
"I think surrendering our sovereignty to a foreign power was a crime in the first place" And this is why:
In England we have a very good and ancient Constitution, built on trial and tribulations of our forefathers, who experienced, on a number of occasions, despotic rule, which here desire to live as freeman gave them the strength to overcome. >>>>On each occasion they set in place protections to prevent despotic rule.<<<<<
Today we have despotic rule by the House of Commons, who claim authority even over Her Majesty the Queen. They have withdrawn their homage to Her Majesty and, under the Common Law of England, are no Parliament, but foul and base traitors. They are destroying a legal system and Constitution built around the teaching of the Bible.
In the House of Commons sometime ago , according to the secretary of Andrew Dismore (MP), Dr Egan: “there has been an interesting discussion on whether by passing a law, they (Parliament), can do away with the rule of law”. Why would anyone in their right mind even contemplate such a thing, let alone discuss it”. What are we left with if they remove the rule of law? We are left with satanic law.”
He also states that ex Prime Ministers and MP’s have committed treason and sedition, by deceiving Queen Elizabeth into breaking the Act of Supremacy of 1559. This act contained an oath, part of which states:-
“No foreign Prince, Person, State Potentate. Hath or ought to have any power, Jurisdiction, Superiority, supremacy, or authority Ecclesiastic or spiritual in the Realm heretofore claimed, used, or usurped within this realm or any dominion or country being within or under the power, dominion, or obeisance of your highness, or shall advisedly, maliciously, or directly put in ure or execute anything for the extolling, advancement, setting forth, maintenance, or defence of any such pretended or usurped jurisdiction, power, pre-eminence, or authority, or any part thereof, that then every such person and persons so doing and offending, their abettors, aiders, procurers, and counsellors, being thereof lawfully convicted and attainted according to the due order and course of the common laws of this realm shall suffer specified penalties, culminating in punishment for high treason ”.
The first Prime Minister [to commit treason] was Edward Heath who served as British Prime Minister from June 1970 – February 1974. The object was twofold to get the kudos of being the man who took us [the British] into Europe and 2nd to betray this Kingdom to our traditional enemies the French and Germans, every other Prime Minister since who has signed any EEC/EU Treaties and as government ministers work to collective responsibility they have all taken part in the lying to Her Majesty, Parliament and the people”, i.e. they have committed High Treason.
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@Outplayz
It was likely his first offense. The law is usually lenient on you for certain offenses if it's your first offense.
It seem you haven't taken into account that the repercussions this type of "crime" sometimes results in, fake or not. If Smollett had have been believed ( as the world press were so so quick to do so, without proof) the retaliation from this could have been chaotic and violent.
Smollett should have been in prison for behaviour likely to cause civil unrest.
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@SamStevens
Mayor Rahm Emanuel has said that the city is sending Smollett the bill for the investigative work in the hoax, which is $130,000.Emanuel made clear that [....]Trump helped create the toxic atmosphere that allowed Smollett to think he could get away with staging a hoax.
Maybe Mayor Rahm Emanuel with an estimated net worth of $11,441,530 [2010], would like to chip in a few dollars to assist Jessie - the smug slug - Smollett with this financial burden, which wasn't created by Donald - the great, fantastic and brilliant - Trump. does anyone know if this bill has been issued?
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@keithprosser
52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
Which is simple code for; and all the people finally woke (from the sleep they had been in) i.e from the stark denial and or ignorance to the injustices being dished out by the Romans and the corruption of the High Priesthood and the lies they were being fed by them and had also been been appeasing the nation into believing the Romans were the good guys they are peaceful.: But the murder of their rightful king was the final straw.
In other words it had taken something so unjust and violent for the Jewish citizens of Palestine to finally become woken up from their sleep and say enough is enough.
"Woke"
Woke is becoming a common slang term that is easing into the mainstream from some varieties of a dialect called African American Vernacular English (sometimes called AAVE). In AAVE, awake is often rendered as woke, as in, “I was sleeping, but now I'm woke.” 'Woke' is increasingly used as a byword for social awareness.
I would like to say that it is like when Prime Minister Theresa May stood on the steps of number 10 after the Manchester bombings and said "enough is enough". .
Like I said; I would like to say that, but then she went on to allow thousands of Jihadis return to Britain after their murder spree in the Middle East.
So she only pretended she that was "woke" to appease the nation just like the high priesthood did to those gullible Jews in Palestine.
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@Snoopy
I would think the parties inhibiting a successful transition are in danger of posturing themselves as traitors.
They are traitors. Nearly every MP in the house is a fkn remainer, including the Prime Minister. They have done everything to keep us in the EU from day one. Article 50 was supposed to be triggered immediately and it wasn't. That was the first hint they those treacherous and treasonous bastards were going to simply ignore the DEMOCRATIC will of the people. They are are on very thin ice but don't seem to care. They know the army will protect them.
They have simply walked over the referendum result as if it didn't happen and treated millions of their voters with total and utter disdain. They are fkn scum who should be hung asp, imo.
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@TheRealNihilist
The advantages of staying in the EU outweigh being outside it.
You are entitled to your opinion, But the referendum result says we leave and the Tory government promised we would and also promised there would be "no second referendum". Remainers just cannot accept it. Once you start turning over the will of the people then you are on the road to a full blown and bloody rebellion and most of those bastard traitors in parliament deserve to hang right now, today, IMO
I think surrendering our sovereignty to a foreign power was a crime in the first place? The EU has in my opinion brought the UK to it's fkn knees.
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@Melcharaz
He did believe and repent. He believed Jesus was the son of God and confessed that he had sinned and was worthy of the crucifixion he was experiencing. he then asked for Jesus to remember him.
Let us see your evidence for that then.
He fulfilled all the requirements for repentance, humilty, admission of Guilt and sin, recognition of Christ, Asking for Mercy.
And your evidence for that is ?
But my sins have all be paid for and wiped away "with the blood of the Christ" , have they not?Only if you accept it and repent of your sins.
Your moving the goalposts again and adding the "depend's on's - if's, and or's" , AGAIN!.
and you have swerved this question AGAIN!
Then what? What will "we" be doing?be with the lord forever.
Doing what? What will those from among mankind and have remained sinless and "walked in the way of the lord" actually be doing?
Did you miss this? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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@TheRealNihilist
Can someone explain BREXIT to me?
Yes. It is where, the government grant a democratic referendum to its citizens and then the same Government totally ignores the fkn result.
I hope this helps
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@Melcharaz
Then what? What will "we" be doing?be with the lord forever.
Doing what? What will those from among mankind and have remained sinless and "walked in the way of the lord" actually be doing?
at least, those who believe on him. I wouldn't say "We" from your point of view unless you are willing to believe and repent.
But my sins have all be paid for and wiped away "with the blood of the Christ" , have they not?
You don't seem to catch on that when you make such profound statements based on your faith, you paint yourself into a corner and then you try to escape with another profound statement.
Simply show me where in scripture it tells us that the two crucified alongside the Christ repented on the cross and confessed and repent their sins and confessed their "belief"?
To my knowledge, one mocked him telling him to "save himself "and the other simply said words to the effect that the Christ Jesus "didn't deserve to die because he had done nothing wrong". But even so, they, according to scripture were promised this:
Mark 23: 39 - 43
39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
You see, there is nothing there at all that states what you will have us believe. You insist one has to be "willing to believe and repent" to get to paradise, yet you have not shown any evidence, were as, I have shown you evidence that appears to the contrary. So can you explain this; why it is that some get a free pass whereas others do not?
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@Snoopy
The Australian government is going to prioritize its obligations to the refugees
So the Aussie Government are classing this terrorist as a refugee. Ok. I wonder how well that is going down with your everyday Ozzy?
then looks forward to prison time of up to ten years.
Looked after and paid for by the hard working Ozzy taxpayers.
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@TheRealNihilist
What should Australia do about it?
I have given my only thought on that particular matter above. 1st paragraph, last sentence, post 9 above.
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@Melcharaz
God will create a new heaven and new earth and we will be in the new jerusalem and we shall be with the Lord forever,
Then what? What will "we" be doing?
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@Melcharaz
The lord Makes good and creates evil.
Why did "the lord" even bother creating anything..... at all.
It seems to me that the truth is, your lord created everything then he lost complete control of it like some nutty professor. You have had over 2,000 years to come up with answers to these questions and is all you / Christians do is make answers up on the hoof .
You have no understanding of those scriptures, this is why you have regularly contradicted yourself and painted yourself into a corner when challenged on your opinions and or the statements you have made. .
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Okay. Allow the Muslim community to cut all ties from him is a good idea
Allow? Who can stop them only other muslims..
. Sharia Law doubt they would base it on that.
That is what I have said. He wouldn't have broken any islamic law so it is my guess they won't ask him to leave his position.
They would base it on bad publicity. If he has bad enough publicity then it would be difficult to advertise Islam with him which Muslims do not want.
Does the Islamic community really actually care what the kuffar thinks of them? I don't think so.
I wouldn't consider all Muslims intolerable
I think you mean intolerant. And neither would I and I haven't suggested that ALL muslims are intolerant.
but the ones who take their holy book literally or advocate for such actions. An example of a person who takes it literally is Ahmed Bhamji.
I am so happy you have said this. And my question here is , why is it that no one has told Ahmed Bhamji that he shouldn't take the Quran literally? Why, come to that, has no one told the muslim terrorist of Islamic State that the Qur'an is not to be taken literally? Could you show me an example of say an Imam from Iran or Saudi Arabia telling the billion+ muslims of world that the quran is not be taken literally?
I am still looking for the condemnation of Ahmed Bhamji's racist inflammatory anti semitic rant from the muslim community, but not yet found anything.
Maajid Nawaz terrorist recruiter? I need evidence. I know he has really bad views but never heard of that one.
Yes, I thought you would. Do you actually believe I would say something I was unable to support even if it was true?
Indeed, ex convict Nawaz has now fully nestled himself into a lucrative place on LBC radio London and has a regular slot on sky news The Pledge. This is what happens when they say "I am reformed and I read the quran different know and am "de-radicalised". So all is forgive then, he is all true blue British now.
Ex jailbird Nawaz gave a speech addressing the Oxford Union, where he unabashedly claimed and proudly proclaimed that he had "recruited army officers from around the world mainly Pakistan to overthrow western governments and instigate military coups".
In this clip he seems to have forgotten what he told these Oxford students just a few weeks before this phone -in.
So if enough people bring this up he will be tried and guilty if enough evidence is shown.
I doubt it. There is more chance that those complaining will be told to shut up and go away and stop being racist bigots and if they don't go away, they will be arrested for spreading hate, fear, and racial hatred and accused of being "islamophobic".
Nawaz also did a anti semitic rant too
Maajid Nawaz's speech at al-Quds day in London
he was rewarded with a lucrative job as mentioned above.
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@TheRealNihilist
a "recievers" section
I sometimes forget.
So Australia ought to remove Ahmed from his position. Do you want to take it a step further?
I haven't said that. And this hate filled inflammatory anti semitic rant took place in New Zealand.
I will say that the NZ government should give the muslim community the chance to remove him, but, you see, he may not have broken any muslim sharia law, so I don't see that happening, do you?
And muslims are taught from birth to hate Jews and christians and told not to take them for allies /friends. I am not saying that ALL muslims take notice of this vile intolerant command but it appears that our man Ahmed Bhamji takes his quran serious and at its word. Quran 51- You, who havebelieved, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact]allies of one another.
He no doubt will go onto being invited onto every radio talk show in NZ and maybe he will even be offered a regular spot as a regular or guest host as happened in the UK with ex jailbird muslim and self confessed terrorist recruiter Maajid Nawaz.
But that said, I am sure NZ simply has to have laws against hate speech and racial incitement and inflammatory language likely to cause breaches of the peace.
So the laws are, I immagine, are already in place dealing with hate speech and racial incitement and inflammatory language and so no need to introduce new ones. But the New Zealand government must have lost them. I suppose they will scramble to find them out and dust them off if ever a white Christian decides spout inflammatory language of incitement towards muslims or anyone else not Christian. We will see.
So the Jewish community have very rational fears when they say :Ahmed Bhamji's words extreme "are dangerous lies,” and that “They put the Jewish community at risk, at a time of heightened security concerns" ?What are you trying to say with this?
I am saying is it likely that the Jewish community are correct when that say:
" Bhamji's words "are dangerous lies,” and that “They put the Jewish community at risk, at a time of heightened security concerns" Or are their fears Irrational?
Yes or no. It is not a difficult question and it is not a trick question.
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So who do you blame this on?
Keeping in mind that this thread is to do with the racial hatred hate speech given by Ahmed Bhamji the chairman of New Zealand’s “busiest and biggest mosque"
The individual,
Yes Ahmed Bhamji. And although there were a few in the crowd who seemed to agree with what this preacher had to say, it was only Ahmed Bhamji speaking inflammatory words of incitement and pointing his finger in the direction of his jewish neighbours .
his Religion
No, Bhamji makes it quite clear "it was Jews that financed" this deranged killer. Not muslims.
or the government?
No. I don't think the NZ government caused Ahmed Bhamji to use such inflammatory and inciting language towards his Jewish neighbours.
So I am guessing Australia should have Ahmed in jail for spreading false information and other charges?
Guess away. But what do you mean when you say "the other charges"
How do you propose in making that happen and giving a good enough case for him to stay in jail?
It was your guess, you tell me.
I condemn what he is saying. Is that okay?
I am relieved to hear it.
I think there are more irrational people or people with bad logic than people who follow good logic.
So the Jewish community have very rational fears when they say :
Ahmed Bhamji's words extreme "are dangerous lies,” and that “They put the Jewish community at risk, at a time of heightened security concerns" ?
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No I don't live in Australia but if you do.
I don't. So again stop suggesting "WE" should do something.
I'll accept that.I'll give a number of less than 10 thousand came to the rally. Now lets see the Muslim population of Austraila. It is 602,200 which means that rally had less than 10% of the Muslim population attending.
What has that got to do with Ahmed Bhamji's hate speech "being used for something he didn't like". ?
And you haven't actually explained to me what it is you mean by "being used for something he/I didn't like"? Can you give me an example?
Do you think he is a representative of Islam or only a specific mosque?
Are you just being ignorant on purpose or are you just ignorant? I have said above already. Try to read it, slowly if necessary, here>>
Ahmed Bhamji is a very influential and high profile so don't try to play this down as some lone voice in the wilderness giving his own racialist and hateful opinion. He share a platform with the Prime Minister of the country, for christs' sake! He has also spoken at the largest mosques in New Zealand. So he is not the nobody preacher that you are attempting to paint him.
So are you implying [.....] ?
I have implied absolutely nothing, so stop trying to put words into my mouth. It's not working.
I notice you haven't condemned the racial hatred hate speech by this high profile preacher and undoubtedly a man of influence who is so influential and so high profile that, as the chairman of New Zealand’s “busiest and biggest mosque", he was able to share a platform with the Prime Minister of NZ and able to preach hatred unmolested by any authority. He was able to preach inflammatory words of incitement towards the local Jewish communities. Although it has been reported that the Human Rights Commision have started to air their opinions, lets see if they also take action, but I doubt it. Can't go upsetting the "muslim communities" now can we.
Biggest mosque
“These conspiracy theories[ spouted by Ahmed Bhamji the chairman of New Zealand’s “busiest and biggest mosque" ] are dangerous lies,” New Zealand Jewish Council spokesperson Juliet Moses told local website Newshub. “They put the Jewish community at risk, at a time of heightened security concerns.”
Do you think that these vile and unfounded accusations put about by the chairman of New Zealand’s “busiest and biggest mosque" , are dangerous and put the Jewish community at risk, omar2345 ?
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@Snoopy
With all due respect, it should be common knowledge that I do not know the precise nature of his predicament.
I think his own words speak for themselves. He tells us and the world that he knowingly and willingly joined an outlawed muslim terrorist group called ISIS. The terrorist group he joined has been defeated. He is in the hands of his captors. He wants to return to the place he once called home but gave up willingly to fight with a terrorist organisation. In my opinion, he should be tried in the country he was captured and fighting against for crimes of terror.
I assume that he is stateless, living in Syria with a family and a funny accent, and seeking asylum.
Tricky one that. He gave up his Australian passport when he joined the newly formed State of Islam. So to say he is actually stateless isn't quite true because Islam is still with all, unfortunately. It needs to be established what it is and from where he is "seeking asylum".
This is based on my understanding of Australian law, and the fact that he is groveling to even be let back into the country.
Indeed it may well be that "by law" he has to be returned to the country he gave up. But Syria has laws too doesn't it? He has committed crimes in that country simply by joining and fighting along a terrorist group and killing Syrian forces.
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When you don't put an ought statement after what you have said.
What statement? Is all I have done is highlight the hateful words that this preacher had spouted at a "love" rally and the accusing finger he points at the local Jewish businesses and Jews in very area he was spouting his hate . This is incitement, this is hate.
And have simply highlighted the fact that this man was allowed to point an accusing finger at local resident Jews with no evidence to support his hateful accusations.
You run the risk of your message being used for something you do not like.
I don't think I have "run any risk" .
Do you think that this preacher of hate was running any risk of his message "being used for something he didn't like". Did he even consider this risk before he pointed his hateful accusing finger at his innocent Jewish neighbours?
Do you hate Muslims?
No. But do not dare to try to turn this hate speech against Jews around on me. It wasn't me accusing local resident Jews of financially supporting the monster Brenton Tarrant who murdered innocent muslims at prayer.
Do you not see this is one person which is not a representative of everything single person following Islam?Obviously not all muslims.
But Ahmed Bhamji is a very influential and high profile so don't try to play this down as some lone voice in the wilderness giving his own racialist and hateful opinion. He share a platform with the Prime Minister of the country, for christs' sake! He has also spoken at the largest mosques in New Zealand. So he is not the nobody preacher that you are attempting to paint him.
How many people were actually at the rally?
Thousands according to this:
"Taking a stand against racism, the 'Love Aotearoa, Hate Racism' rally was held in Auckland's Aotea Square this afternoon, drawing a crowd of thousands."https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/we-wont-let-happen-again-rally-against-racism-draws-thousands-aotea-square
But you knew that didn't you? Yes THOUSANDS attended this rally "taking a stand AGAINST racism". And there was your man Ahmed Bhamji right in the thick of it spouting hatred.
What are the chances do you think Ahmed Bhamji's hate speech "being used for something he didn't like".
Or isn't he a real muslim?
Has an official for the government made a response to it?
Not to my knowledge and I doubt they will. Have you raised the issue with anyone, yourself?
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@TheRealNihilist
What are you trying to say with this?
Try reading it. It is quite clear. The story says it all.
Don't shoot the messenger simply because you don't like the message.
but would like to know what ought we do about it as well.
Then start a thread. you could call it, Why is this hate preacher getting away with racist and anti semitic hate speech and what should be done about him?.. But you won't, will you.
This thread is about blatantly preaching hate and anti semitism at a "love rally".
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Yes this is what mosque leader Ahmed Bhamji a preacher claimed in a hate filled rant.
At what was by all accounts supposed to have been a "Love Aotearoa [NZ], Hate Racism" rally this muslim preacher said;
"I won't mince my words, I stand here and say I have a very , very string suspicion that there is some group behind him [ Brenton Tarrant ] and I am not afraid to say, Mossad is behind this".
Ahmed Bhamji had shared a platform just the day before with NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern who for some strange reason wore hijab, the oppressive compulsory head covering that Iranian women are casting off at the cost of imprisonment and torture. She started her speech by thanking Ahmed Bhamji and .... Muhammad.
Indeed it seems then, according to Ahmed Bhamji , that muslims praying at mosque at the other end of the world posed a threat to Israel, so they sent in this violent Mossad trained individual to assassinate the congregation.
Ahmed Bhamji then ramped up his hate speech by informing everyone that he knew that local "zionist business houses" were also behind him [ Brenton Tarrant the shooter ]
The apologist will be pleased to know that Ahmed Bhamji wasn't arrested, warned about his language or even told to move along during this hate filled speech at this "Hate Racism" rally. And I won't ask for any evidence of Ahmed Bhamji's claims as the apologist will tell me I have taken him and everything he clearly said ( he didn't mince his words see), out of context and I am being "islamophobic" while ignoring the hate and antisemitism spoken by Ahmed Bhamji .
see Ahmed Bhamji deliver his hate filled rant here in this 5min video >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVasVStyRMY&t=168s
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@disgusted
Primitive desert dwellers wrote the books that invented the god you claim inspired the primitive authors to write the books inventing this god.Do you have any idea how many primitive societies invented gods?There have been (estimated) 100 billion humans to have existed, how many of them have believed in your yahweh god?
Do you not have any other argument but to keep repeating over and over and over the same fkn sentences over and over and over?. I know 10 years old children that could argue against these statements of Melcharaz better than you and with good sound logic. . But is all you can do is repeat OVER and OVER and OVER :
" there is no god" - "the bible was written by men" - "men created gods". It is one way to get your post count up I suppose.
Have you ever, just once tried to deconstruct what it is someone is claiming? Instead of just spouting the same old crap over and over and over?
You really are a boring nauseating tit .
Now go cry to a mod about me insulting you by calling you a tit , you boring tit.
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@Melcharaz
According to fatalism, you would essentially be correct, however it was also their choice to agree with it and refused to love or serve God
Then it sounds no better than Islam, is it? The quran teaches love, obey and submit to allah or burn in hell. Which also proves that there isn't the "free will " a phrase Christians just love to bandy around.
Could you show me anywhere in the New Testament where this threat is spoken and laid down by the Christ?
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@Melcharaz
--> @StephenThis does not answer my questions though does it? The fact is you simply do not know what happens then, once a good godly person receives his reward of reaching paradise and you cannot prove what it is you belive you know.You have told me that it " was obviously more than rest". I asked how long for? You then added "rest in righteousness and rest from sin", and called this "the main feature", which made no sense and I reminded you that the blood sacrifice of the Christ died to wipe away the sins of the earth. You then further this with:once the final judgement is done, God will create a new heaven and new earth and we will be in the new jerusalem and we shall be with the Lord forever, in this, we will share Joy, peace and happiness the likes of which we cannot recieve or comphrend here on earth. or in this mortal and sinful body.That place being paradise. So do you notice how circular you have made this. I'll explain. I started this thread saying, I have reached paradise - which according to you above "all my sin has gone".I then ask what then? You said "rest".I ask then what? And you reply"rest in righteousness and rest from sin".So I remind you, I have reached paradise- and as you agree - I have no sin at this stage, so then what happens? and you came back with this:Paradise is in heaven, Yes, all sin is gone. You can repent from sin here on earth, but you will still be sinning, however when you repent the Lord will not find it or remember it during judgement.Only 1 person died sinless, that is jesus christ, the rest of us have sin in us and we need to repent to be forgiven, repentance and the death of christ keeps us free from being damned as a sinner, but doesn't take away the sin nature.The whole salvation and where we go is simple and outlined in the bible, Im sorry if you misunderstood what i was saying, ill sum it up brief as i canWe are sinners, if we die, we go to hell and then we wait for judgement. If we accept christ and repent, we die and go to sheol, which is the non tormenting part of hell and we resurrect when the rapture comes. accepting christ doesn't make us sinless, it only makes us to have no bondage to sin when judged. After that, we are with the Lord and all the pleasures and peace and are waiting on everyone else who lives on the earth after the rapture to go through what they go through, then we reign with the lord 1000 years on earth. then satan rebels a final time, then the judgement where we judge the souls and angels according to God's word, then the new heaven and new earth and new jerusalem.
So you don't know, you cannot prove a single word you have said and like I suspected have made it all up as you went along. You have not a single piece of evidence for anything you say above and instead created more questions. So, although you have given me cause to ask many more questions concerning the above. I will ask only one:
God will create a new heaven and new earth and we will be in the new jerusalem and we shall be with the Lord forever,
Then what?
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@Snoopy
He is a refugee
What is he seeking refuge from?
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@Melcharaz
The word is proof enough, if you understood what the word actually is, you might consider the implications when i say the bible is proof. Jesus Is the word of God. If God is true and not a liar, then everything the bible says which comes from God is truth.
This does not answer my questions though does it? The fact is you simply do not know what happens then, once a good godly person receives his reward of reaching paradise and you cannot prove what it is you belive you know.
You have told me that it " was obviously more than rest". I asked how long for? You then added "rest in righteousness and rest from sin", and called this "the main feature", which made no sense and I reminded you that the blood sacrifice of the Christ died to wipe away the sins of the earth. You then further this with:
It is to be present with the Lord Jesus Christ.
but didn't you say at post 71 above that being present with the lord comes AFTER this rest and not during?
make no mistake, Christs death gives us the ability to repent and not be bonded by sin. But sin abides in humans still and it will be no more when we reach that place. All sin is gone.
That place being paradise. So do you notice how circular you have made this. I'll explain. I started this thread saying, I have reached paradise - which according to you above "all my sin has gone".
I then ask what then? You said "rest".
I ask then what? And you reply
"rest in righteousness and rest from sin".
So I remind you, I have reached paradise- and as you agree - I have no sin at this stage, so then what happens? and you came back with this:
It is to be present with the Lord Jesus Christ.
but didn't you say at post 71 above that being present with the lord comes AFTER this rest and not during?
After that, it depends on how you got there. if you are a christian or an old testament saint and believed on him before the rapture then you will move from the 3rd heaven, paradise to where jesus and the throne of God is and be the bride of christ.
So it is not at all as matter of fact as you make all this, is it? And the fact is you simply do not now "what then" do you? You see, being AND dying sinless is not enough anymore is it, according to you? There now seems to be other conditions , i.e. there are a lot of "depend's on's - if's, and or's" aren't there?
It is not enough then that we are sinless when we reach paradise , is it, according to you? The fact is you don't know what happens then and are making this up as the questions are fired at you., this is called - blinding it - where I come from. I am not questioning your faith. In fact I quietly admire anyone with this resolute stance, I do, at times wish I could "believe". No, I am questioning your understanding and knowledge of the scriptures.
So no one knows, what then? I didn't think so. Not even the scriptures can tell us what then? Yet the goal of all Christians is to reach this place "paradise" to reside in everlasting love with Jesus but cannot tell us what then? DEAD?
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@Snoopy
What happens to him if he stays in Syria?
I should imagine he will be imprisoned as a criminal. But I am not sure of the laws of Syria. He did belong to a outlawed ISLAMIC terrorist group and no one forced him to Join.
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@Snoopy
Islamophobia is rooted in racism and is a type of racism that targets expressions of Muslimness or perceived Muslimness
Which, in their own words,“racialises” Islam. "muslimness" ????another non word created by the left to ban free speech. I have read the forward to this ridiculous proposal here>>> https://policyexchange.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Defining-Islamophobia.pdf
Someone should remind these traitors that the English language has stood us well for hundreds of years and doesn't need defining simply to outlaw and criminalise the criticism of a religion or ideology.
phobic
/ˈfəʊbɪk/
adjective
- 1.having or involving an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something.https://www.google.com/search?q=phobic+meaning&rlz=1C1DSGK_en-gbGB437GB453&oq=phobic&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j35i39j0l4.4512j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Islam has given me many a reason to rationally fear it. And this of course is another reason they are desperate to put a definition to the non word "islamophobia".. You will not even find this non word in any dictionary in the world printed before 9/11.
about 15 years ago, the late great Christopher Hitchens warned of the "criminalisation" of the then newly invented word- "islamophobia" in this 4 minute video here>>>Christopher Hitchens on Islam and the End Freedom of Speech https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32KRwzJsy1o&t=34s
In my country, people would be preparing for revolt. Have you noticed any similar concerns mounting around this subject?
By all accounts in the UK and much of Europe there is a growing feeling that before soon, people will have to defend themselves against the "islamic threat", as the elected elite have simply refuse to listen to, and take notice of the, very genuine and rational fear that its citizens have concerning the very real threat that Islam poses to the West. Islam is causing problems all over Europe and these cretins in power are ignoring it and insisting that "Islam is a religion of peace". I have yet to see a single scrap of evidence that supports that opinion.
looking at the Pew research projection figures it paints a terrible demise of white westerners.
Muslims are projected to increase as a share of Europe’s population – even with no future migration
So the fear westerners have is genuine and rational.
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" PM Theresa May refuses to commit to adopting recommended Islamophobia definition".
5 minute video >>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LcibP2wYqY
Is this a threat from the Muslim Council Of Great britain towards the British Prime Minister and her party?
"The Muslim Council of Britain warns the Conservative Party is at risk of 'placing themselves on the wrong side of the argument'" .
Sounds very much like one to me.
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Well I don't no how long this will last but Theresa May U.K. PM has turned down the offer to completely change and redefine words of the English language.
Will common sense prevail.
"Theresa May refuses to commit to adopting recommended Islamophobia definition".
Is this a threat from the Muslim Council Of Great britain to The prime Minister?
"The Muslim Council of Britain warns the Conservative Party is at risk of 'placing themselves on the wrong side of the argument'" .
Sounds very much like one to me.
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@Greyparrot
Of course he is, now. He's running from a war zone........... he fought in and lost
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Warnings from the late great Christopher Hitchens.
"Resist it while you can. before the right to complain is taken away from you".
"It's coming to a place near you"
"You cannot complain, you will be told that you are islamophobic, the term is already being introduced as if it was some form of race hatred"
"The Middlesex cricket team that was forced to change its name from the Middlesex Crusaders. The school who cannot read the Three Little Pigs".
"Watch out for these symptoms, they are symptoms of surrender".
ALL of those symptoms have come and his predictions have proven to be correct.
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@ludofl3x
The question is simple. Is something moral because god says to do it, or is something moral independent of god's command?
No that is a strawman argument on behalf of someone else. That certainly was not the question. This IS the question:
Is It Moral ....To punish someone for a crime they did not commit? See post No1. Not a single mention of god
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