Total posts: 8,861
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
Why don't we just cut to the heart of it then. How do people determine morality without god(s)?
That is why I questioned weather this was a religious question and is it in the correct forum.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Tradesecret
I think I have answered this before. I think everyone on this planet believes that their morality is correct. Otherwise they would think otherwise.
Are there some who act in contradiction to their own standards and morals?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
Any supporters of Jesus clearly feel that in at least one instance punishing someone for a crime he did not commit was both moral and necessary.
Remind me, which one?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
Is this a religious question? Is that why it it is the religion forum?
If so, then shouldn't the question be - is it religiously moral- To punish someone for a crime they did not commit?
Created:
"I was a hard working man who became religious"
Just like that? !
"Then I just wanted to do what I thought was right".
So you joined Islamic State a terrorist organisation in Syria ,which is a muslim Empire under a Caliphate, a chief muslim leader. Though you admit this now was "a mistake" and ONLY AFTER this Muslim Caliphate has been beaten. And you got captured by the Kurds? I see. Carry on.
"Australia if my home"....
Hold on, let me stop you there. Australia is not your home. The defeated Islamic Caliphate is your home, where ever that may now be.
"I was born there and my mother is of Australian descent".
And you gave it up along with your passport to go live and fight for your newly adopted State. You belong to the state of Islam, not Australia.
Watch the video in this report it is astounding"
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Melcharaz
the bible is my proof of paradise.
No, the bible is words on paper. It is a case of believing or not believing. it depends totally on faith. it is not evidence. It is not proof.
It's more than just rest obviously,
it is not obvious to me. So what more besides this "rest" at this stage ,is there?
but its main feature is rest in righteousness and rest from sin.
But our sins were already "wiped away" with the rather - cannibalistic - shedding of the blood of The Christ. And do you actually have evidence that when we die that this is the "main feature"?
It is to be present with the Lord Jesus Christ.
but didn't you say at post 71 above that being present with the lord comes AFTER this rest and not during?
yes here we are:
After that, it depends on how you got there. if you are a christian or an old testament saint and believed on him before the rapture then you will move from the 3rd heaven, paradise to where jesus and the throne of God is and be the bride of christ.
So it is not at all as matter of fact as you make all this is it?
Created:
you seem suddenly very keen on the inter-workings of the conflict that has been going on between the herdsmen & the hunters & the farmers over land rights & water supplies.
Indeed your link, the link that you have provided as some kind of evidence to counter my point, doesn't actually mention "christian" or muslim" now does it. It just says herdsmen & farmers, It does though mention that:
"a Mali-based al-Qaeda affiliate said it had carried out an attack last week on a military base that left more than 20 soldiers dead".
Al Qaeda? isn't that an ISLAMIC TERRORIST group?
you seem suddenly interested
Did you not expect me to read and research your link a little further.? I was curious as to why you would post a link that actually supports the point of this thread.
And no, not "suddenly". Since the MUSLIM TERRORIST ATTACK on 9/11/ 2001 I have been researching why it is that thousands upon thousands ( a very small number of the 1.5 billion I know) muslims want to murder anyone who isn't muslim, .
Yes my muslim awakening was right there, where on that day it took only 19 muslims to bring a massive US city to its knees murdering over 3,000 people and where muslims around the world actually celebrated this violent unprovoked attack. Nope, no outpouring of grief or outrage from the Western muslim communities. No marches by thousands of western muslims against the violence saying "not in my name", no songs of " give peace a chance", in fact as you well know, MILLIONS ( a very small number of the 1.5 billion I know) of muslims around the world were very happy.
I have found though from my own research 2001-2010 that it wasn't just white westerners that were woken up to the very real and serious threat of Islam , many muslims too realised the horror and violence of Islam and the violent instructions that are written in the Quran. And many became apostates. So that can only be a good thing can't it.
You seem to have totally forgotten the point of this thread:
Seriously: Where Is The Outrage? Where is the Western Media? Do you see that word, WESTERN?
Jacinda Ardern tells Christchurch service "New Zealand mourns with you" – as it happened
I am still waiting for the outpouring and candlelight vigils of mourning from the Dutch muslim communities for the victims of the muslim terrorists attack in the Netherlands. You may remember this. It was first reported that this was all down to a "domestic dispute" by the media, until it simply couldn't be denied any longer that it was in fact a terrorist attack, then it was - all quiet on the western front..
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Melcharaz
The Lord raised them from the Grave with his death,
How do you know this?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Melcharaz
Paradise is just a resting place.
So the answer to my question of " Paradise- what then? " is, according to you, "rest".
And your evidence for this is?
The bible says what the heavens is. Psalms 8:3
3 When I consider your heavens,
the work of your fingers,
the moon and the stars,
which you have set in place,
4 what is mankind that you are mindful of them,
human beings that you care for them?
5 You have made them a little lower than the angels
and crowned them[ with glory and honor.
No, this is someone admiring what he sees above him and wondering and attributing its existence to a god, without actual proof.
I too look at the "heavens" above me in awesome wonder. But just because it is there suspended above me as if by miracle and magic, and I still wonder in awe at this spectacular sight, is not evidence that it was god- created or that I go and live/ "rest" among the above mentioned at ps8:3.
So "rest"- you say. Why and how long for?
Created:
-->
@Yassine
=> More than 130 Fulani villagers killed. (this week)- 130 slaughtered -mostly women & children- TWICE, in Nigeria AND Mali. You Christians have been super busy this past month.
Yes absolutely terrible. And yes , the Western media once again displaying an outpouring of outrage and condemnation at the slaughter of innocent MUSLIMS which is my whole point of the is thread.
Where is the outrage at the slaughter of Christians ? Where is the condemnation and outrage and mourning from the Western media when innocent Christians get blown to pieces? Where are the muslims saying " not in my name" when children and women get splattered all over Manchester by a muslim performing Islamic jihad on the instructions of Allah? Thank you for proving and highlighting exactly my point.
Did you miss the title of this thread . It concerns the cowardly WESTERN MEDIA bias when it come to muslims being slaughtered. As you have proven above.
As to your BBC link here>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-47680836 I suggest you also read it instead of just posting it and hoping no one will bother reading it thoroughly.
"More than 130 people were killed in an attack on a village in central Mali on Saturday by armed men wearing traditional Dogon hunters' clothing.
Clashes between Dogon hunters and semi-nomadic Fulani herders can occur over access to land and water.
The Dogon also accuse Fulanis of ties to jihadist groups. The Fulanis claim that Mali's military has armed the hunters to attack them.
Last year, hundreds of people died in clashes between Dogon hunters and members of the Fula ethnic group.
On Friday, a Mali-based al-Qaeda affiliate said it had carried out an attack last week on a military base that left more than 20 soldiers dead.
The militants said it was in response to violence against Fulani herdsmen.
One Ogossagou resident, who asked not to be identified, told Reuters news agency that Saturday's violence appeared to be in retaliation for the attack on the soldiers".
You Christians have been super busy this past month.
Really? OK lets see what or who it actually is that the DOGON worship.
First let me tell you, fewer than half of the 300,000 Dogon are Muslim, and fewer still are Christian. Most practice traditional religion.
The religion of the Dogon rests on the belief that some 3,000 years ago amphibious beings from Sirius visited the Dogon.
"The key spiritual figures in the religion were the Nummo/Nommo twins. According to Ogotemmêli's description of them, the Nummo, whom he also referred to as the Serpent, were amphibians that were often compared to serpents, lizards, chameleons, and occasionally even sloths (because of their being slow moving and having a shapeless neck). They were also described as fish capable of walking on land; while they were on land, the Nummo stood upright on their tails. The Nummos' skin was primarily green, but, like the chameleon, it sometimes changed colours. It was said to at times have all the colours of the rainbow."
Well that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ all sounds rather heathen and primitive and superstitious to me and nothing at all like Christianity. But each to their own I say and as long as they don't try to convert me by the machete, eh?
And:
The Fula people or Fulani number between 38 and 40 million people in total, are one of the largest ethnic groups in the Sahel and West Africa, widely dispersed across the region.[ Inhabiting many countries, they live mainly in West Africa and northern parts of Central Africa but also in, South Sudan, Sudan and regions near the Red Sea coast.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@RationalMadman
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@RationalMadman
Jesus was spiritiually Lucifer the whole time...... Lucifer/Jesus
I have slight problem with that RM and I should imagine so should a lot Christians. Jesus was "dead" on the cross when this mass raising occurred and he hadn't been "raised" at this juncture.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
Some christians point to the old testament to justify their moral standards
What some christians may or may not do doesn't answer the question - such as?
and therefore the old testament is a potential justification for christian behavior even if this does not apply to all christians.
It doesn't apply to any christians in truth. What you say "some christians" may or may not do has nothing to do with the old testament. And it isn't evidence. My cat has a wooden head and breaths fire. If you want proof of that claim my brother will come on here and confirm it. Will that be evidence enough for you? OK, here is my brother: yes Stephen's cat has a wooden head and it breathes fire and "some other people" seen this too.
So again there some reason we are eliminating the old testament from consideration? Is it not used as part of some christians moral foundation?
See above.
And asking the same question over and over will not garner different answer. If you think the ot should NOT be "eliminated" that's your affair but the thread is a "Debate" of Islam, and you should make your case concerning the ot in relation to Islam.... if you have one.
Created:
Posted in:
Is there some reason we are eliminating the old testament from consideration?
Who is? Not sure what you mean, but there is plenty of violence in the OT , compatible with Islam, if that is what your getting at.
Is it not used as part of some Christians moral foundation?
Such as? Religion does not have the monopoly on morals. I do not have to believe in a god, or be religious or have read the New or Old Testaments to be a good person with morals.
The christian "foundation" as you put it, is the new covenant and has nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew OT and their god. Even Jews don't read the OT never mind take any laws or moral guidance from it. Do you not believe that people had laws and morals before Moses decided to write down the commandments? This was the new covenant of his time. It may as well be obsolete. Islam on the other hand has undergone not a single change in all of its 1400 + years since Muhammad had his so called "revelation".
.
Created:
-->
@RationalMadman
I don't care if Bsh1 still remains in the team or not, he is not too terrible and not too great.
That, I take it, is your personal opinion. It certainly isn't mine, RM. I think he is bias and over zealous. how can calling someone a clown - no matter how many times - result in a warning??
Created:
Posted in:
Matthew 27:52-53 King James Version (KJV)
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
In every other account with the exception of Jesus, we have the name of the person - who happens to be very much alive himself - performing this so called miracle of raising from the "dead".
Who raised all of these saints? And why just the saints and not the sinners who had been exonerated by the blood of the Christs sacrifice?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@keithprosser
You do blow up easily!
Oh please!!! So me having to continuously highlight points and facts to you that you simply ignore, is me blowing up? Grow up.
My point is that even without explicit scripture Christianity - or Christians - have been violently intolerant towards non-christians and heretical christians.
So you concede then that there isn't a single instruction from the Christ to his followers to go out into the world and kill in his name anyone who doesn't believe in him or god or isn't Christian as does the quran. GOOD!
And I have said many times; there isn't a single direction from the Christ to his followers to "kill" others for simply not believing or for not being Christian. Neither does it instructs followers not to take anyone at all who isn't muslim, as allies as does the Quran. In fact the opposite is true and you know it.
I agree Christians have killed believing they have god on their side and in a god's name, but this is in direct contradiction to the teachings of Jesus the Christ, Prince of Peace, you know that too.
But you just can't help trying your damnedest to contextualise the Christian practices and actions of today with the teachings of Islam today and the actions of muslims which hasn't change one single iota from the day of its conception over 1400 years ago. But I have gone over this before with you but it doesn't stop you coming back with the same old tripe!
So I am going to take it you do not have any New Testament verses resembling those violent and intolerant quranic direct instruction from allah to his adherents then? Thought so.
I am still waiting for your discussion on how to "counter" islamic violence. You did say here post 114 https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/1499?page=5 that you'd be discussing it with your tag partner, yassine. You haven't discussed that yet.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@keithprosser
you only asked for something 'even resembling'!
I did. I asked for you to find me anything resembling those quranic instructions in the New Testament where Christ himself instructs his followers to go and kill in his name. OR where the Christ says - do not take a Jew OR Gentile OR a Buddhist OR a hindu OR a Sikh OR a muslim as an allies?
Or kill any christian who converts to Islam or Judaism, OR kill anyone because they do not believe in god.
So, suddenly proper consideration of context is vital.
No it isn't. I didn't ask for context did I? and No it isn't always vital as you always seem to believe it is when it comes to the Quran. It's alway you who accuses me of quoting "out of context" and ask me to "put it into context" weather it be the bible or the quran.
So I am going to take it you do not have any New Testament verses resembling those violent and intolerant quranic direct instruction from allah to his adherents then? Thought so.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@keithprosser
Lk 19:27 "But as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and slaughter them in my presence.’”
I could accuse you of quoting out of context, but that would be lowering myself to your own level of intellect and scraping the barrel.I could ask you to actually put this parable into context, but I won't.
Yes, you have tried this tripe before keith it didn't work then and it doesn't work now. I made clear to you twice on other threads that this is only part of a parable spoken by The Christ aka the Prince of Peace.
Lk 19:27 Is a judgment of a god and not an instruction for others to carry out in his name. The Meaning is, is that all of mankind will one day face god's judgment. Put simply those who have hated and or rejected God will be punished.
So, would you like another attempt or is that it?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@keithprosser
Monotheism has intolerance built-in;
Islam certainly has and it makes its intolerance of other faiths extremely clear in over 100 verses of the Quran.
Quran 4:89 - They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they migrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.
Quran 9:29 - Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture – [fight] until they give thejizyah (jizyah = tax levied by Muslim on non- - believers or be killed on refusal to pay) willingly while they are humbled.
Quran 9:123 - Youwho have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with the righteous.
Quran 9:30 - The Jews say,"Ezra is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah." That is their statement from their mouths;they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah Destroy them; how are they deluded?
Bukhari : 9.84.57. - ISLAM AND APOSTASY"Prophet Muhammad said: Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him."
And there is this very clear instruction from Allah:
Quran 51 - You, who have believed, do not take the Jews and Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you – then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah Guides not the wrongdoing people.
It would be interesting to see if you can find anything in the Christian New Testament even resembling any of those extremely intolerant and violent verses, keith.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@TheRealNihilist
Where are the rules?
It comes under threat and abuse. I know, its absolutely ridiculous. Telling someone you will report them or even telling your abuser that you have reported them comes under threats and abuse.
This is what I have received and it stays with you it is never scrubbed after a time.
10.03.2018 11:15PM
Do not--for any reason--threaten another member with a report. That is entirely unacceptable and viewed extremely unfavorably by moderation. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/416?page=2&post_number=41
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@RationalMadman
Do not threaten her with mod action, you will get things backfiring onto you.
This is true, RM. A kind friendly warning to some one that you will report them if they persist with abuse will get you a warning strike against you and not your abuser. I had two warnings.
Created:
-->
@Outplayz
but scientists are, to my knowledge, at least trying to advance us...
They are. Although the work of Scientists comes on the shoulders of giants - which is probably the only time they look back - their goal is always looking to advance/improve i.e, are looking forward. All the work of scientist, as a rule, starts off for benevolent reasons only for their discoveries and inventions to turn malevolent.
however, i'm sure they are wolves too. Instead of truly trying to figure out this reality... most scientists are working towards what makes them money.
I can assure you,Outplayz, there is rarely a scientist that is not owned by a corporation and they do not own their intellectual property although their name be on the discovery/invention. I am not talking mundane vacuum cleaners or flexi hose pipes here. The 'freelance' scientist is an extreme rarity these days and they suffer at the hands of corporations who do not allow their discoveries and inventions to see the light of day. Nikola Tesla and John Searle were / are prime example. The mention of free energy and your doomed unless you cave in to the might of the giant corporations. .
They don't care about things like spirituality bc that doesn't sell or make them money...
I am not sure science and spirituality are compatible. Though there may well be scientist who are spiritual. That said, I do doubt very much, that religion will ever be compatible with science. Scientist only deal with facts not superstition. That also said, I think a religious story and science came extremely close to being one or on the same level recently when a cotton farmer come amature scientist discovered the secret of "manna" this is the ancient bread know to the Egyptians as Muffkutz. It is too long a story to tell here but is covered in large part by Sir Laurence Gardner in his book -Lost Secrets of the Sacred Ark. It is a absolute fascinating story of cotton farmer who, in the 1970's found a strange white substance on his land that really did have "magical properties", by all accounts.
i think the majority are just trying to find the new next big thing to get rich. This world is pure greed.
It is always a possibility you will have your "mad" and or "rogue" and "nutty" scientist. That said, many scientist are accused of being all three by their peers until said peers are eventually proven to have been wrong. Newton and Einstein are examples.
Created:
-->
@keithprosser
I am damn sure I could find a post - or part of one - where you mock-praise islam or mohammed.
Go on the, lets see one. But be sure not to be confusing the words "mock" with criticising as in - Stephen has criticized the New Testament and Christianity far far more than he has Islam. 26 Christian to only 5 muslim to be exact and two of those 5 are debatable. See here>> https://www.debateart.com/participants/Stephen/forum_topics?page=5
Created:
-->
@Outplayz
Wrong person dude
It obviously was but was far too late to edit it. Sorry.
I think prosser knows it was meant for him.
Created:
-->
@keithprosser
i'd accept it was misguided or misinformed but i don't think it was cynical.
No? Ardern is also an appeasing ignorant woman. There are women in Iran who are in prison and being tortured for uncovering their heads and casting off this "oppressive" garment. But you won't recognise that will you. These poor imprisoned and tortured muslim women don't exist as far as you are concerned.
Do you think Prime Minister Adern had these poor muslim women in mind when she thought it would be a good for her image to don this extremely oppressive muslim garment, keith?
No, and neither did you.
Iranian woman ‘jailed for 20 years’ for removing headscarf
"Speaking to Amnesty International, Shajarizadeh’s lawyer, Nasrin Sotoudeh, claims she was subjected to torture and beatings after her arrest".
POLICE in Tehran arrested 29 women in February for protesting against a law that makes the wearing of hijab compulsory.
Iranian Woman Who Removed Headscarf Jailed For Two Years
Created:
-->
@Outplayz
I am damn sure I could find a post - or part of one - where you mock-praise islam or mohammed.
Go on the, lets see one. But be sure not to be confusing the words "mock" with criticising as in - Stephen has criticized the New Testament and Christianity far far more than he has Islam.
Created:
-->
@keithprosser
Shah's output and it's atypical.
But not for Shah who argued for Israel’s population to be “transported” out of the Middle East to America. And going further she included a picture of Israel superimposed over the United States, with the approving comment: “Problem solved and save you bank charges for the £3bn you transfer yearly.” adding that she would tweet Barack Obama and David Cameron with the suggestion and said it would “save them some pocket money”.
More posts by Shah then emerged. She wrote the caption #ApartheidIsrael on a picture that appeared to compare the state to the Nazis. It was above a picture of Dr Martin Luther King holding the quote: “We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was ‘legal’.”
Shah had employed a Labour councillor, Mohammed Shabbir, who is also alleged to have made antisemitic remarks, claiming Russian Orthodox Jews were involved in “the sex trafficking trade – demand is particularly high among Charedim, the conservative Orthodox Jews, many of whom are regular clients of brothels”.
She IS vile and a racist and a bigot who lets her mask slip now and again.
I am damn sure I could find a post - or part of one - where you mock-praise islam or mohammed. If so, do you mind if i post it widely as showing your true colours?
Ahh, is this your attempt at more bridge building with me.
Listen. You can do as you please. But please share my other posts while your "exposing my true colours" (as If I have been hiding them) "criticising" the bible and Christians of which I have criticised more than Islam on this forum by 26 threads to 5 and I am not sure two of those count as criticism of Islam Or Muhammad Or the Quran. List available on request. But you can search my forum record here>>> https://www.debateart.com/participants/Stephen/forum_topics?
But again I see it is me you are attacking and not the content of my posts. . I have said many times, because you have no answers or responses this is frustrating you. You need to be calm come up with some answers and responses and stop crying and stamping your feet.
where you mock-praise islam or mohammed.
I don't understand the - mock-praise - part. Can you expand.
Created:
Whoops. Foot in mouth.
disgusted wrote: Respect. Something wingnuts know nothing about, especially Slump and Stephen. Such sad little people
The backhand was beautiful:
ResurgetExFavilla responded: How is that respectful? If a convent was shot up, would it be respectful for a politician to dress up in a habit to make a speech? After the Japanese earthquake and Tsunami, should Obama have gotten into his Noh theatre makeup and dressed Michele up in a kimono?Should our leaders don the cheongsam to discuss tragedy in China? A saree when Bangladesh floods?I mean, Jacinda Ardern is a pretty outspoken feminist and an agnostic who left the Mormon church, who lives with a man whom she isn't wed to, has a child by him, and sees this as a superior arrangement, the 'way of the future'. Her stated beliefs run 100% antithetical to what the hijab stands for, which is humility and submission to God, things which she clearly sees as old fashioned and not for her.
The clown disgusted obviously didn't understand the post. Didn't notice the hypocrisy of Ardern, couldn't recognise the double standards displayed by Ardern, or realise that, as ResurgetExFavilla states, that Jacinda Ardern is a self serving opportunist politician whose career is in the slide, even though it was pointed out to him .
Hats off to the clown disgusted. Put his big hooter into something he understands nothing about ... as usual.
Created:
-->
@Outplayz
Let's not forget the demi-god corporations too.
That is also interesting,Outplayz. As I also mentioned in the same essay that the Corporations were/would be the new high priests of the new millennium. But looking at it now, I may have had it the wrong way around. i.e the Corporations ( who put in these politicians) maybe are the New Gods and the politicians are their priests.. I also said that the scientist of the new millennium will be the demi-gods, and I will stick with that.
Created:
-->
@Analgesic.Spectre
The major news outlets don't let you criticise Islam. Maybe you're[Yassine] talking about fringe ones, or maybe you [Yassine] just don't know what you're talking about.
That will be the latter. He's [Yassine] good at conflating,exaggeration and lying. He's even pretty good at contextualising today's Christianity and the 'actions' of Christians with today's Islamic jihad. He will, somewhere, bring up the "crusades" as he and the keith prossers of the world always do.
But they always leave out the part where the crusades were in direct response to 400 YEARS!!!! of muslim invasion of the Holy Land, europe, and the Indian subcontinent butchering and converting by the sword as they went.. Yassine will no doubt bring into the mix the British Empire and overseas "invasions" by the USA whilst leaving out that there had been three rather large Muslim Empires stretching across the globe and hundreds of years before there was ever a Great Britain,British Empire or a USA. The last Muslim Empire only came to an end in the early 1940'. and there had been no "invasions" anywhere by the USA until the muslim attack of 9/11.
Another favourite of the Yassin's and the keithprossers of the world is to blame the "West's foreign policy", while conveniently forgetting the intervention in Kosovo where the west saved the lives of countless Muslims from Serbian ethnic cleansing. I can still see those lines of hundreds of thousands of muslims heading for the west where most have settled. I can still see the aid being air dropped down to these hundreds of thousands of these poor muslim refugees, from countries around the world including ISRAEL, but the yassines and prossers won't go there because to acknowledge such complexity - and the amount of charity given by the west - would be far too problematic.
There is no mention of the first Gulf War where, at the distressing pleas for assistance and thanks to US-led intervention, Kuwaiti MUSLIMS were spared the horrors of a protracted Iraqi occupation thanks to the sacrifice British and American lives.
In other words according to muslims such Yassine and apologist like keithprosser, it will always be someone else's fault.
Created:
-->
@Outplayz
Most of these gods are just egotistical, self serving Narcissists.It's funny bc i think most politicians are too... and, people that crave power. And, guess which people wrote it? Correlation? Maybe.
I once said some years ago in a university essay that politicians will be the gods of the new millenium.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@keithprosser
This Islamic scholar disagrees....
“He was a warlord barbarian, yet to Muslims he is the perfect example of a moral man.” from the book Mohammed's Koran: Why Muslims Kill for Islam
He got that right and that is something I have been saying since I started researching this barbaric ideology since 9/11.<< this Muslim terrorist atrocity is what caused me to research Islam. And going by the comments below this video that you so kindly posted keithprosser, it just has to be worth the read then. Thank you, Keith.
Have you read Mohammed's Koran: Why Muslims Kill for Islam, yourself, Keith?
I noticed this best selling book - Mohammed's Koran: Why Muslims Kill for Islam - is co authored by Peter McLoughlin. This is the same author who wrote about Muslim Rape gangs, in his book,
Easy Meat: Inside Britain's Grooming Gang Scandal
The author Peter McLoughlin, has often spoken about how he sat on this Muslim rape gang story for 2 YEARS!!!! for fear of upsetting his left wing libtard friends.
Peter McLoughlin said that he chose this title after the ex Home Secretary Jack Straw was brave enough to admit that, “White female children are seen as 'easy meat' by muslim Pakistani Rapists”.
Robinson obviously knew what he was talking about when he stated in 2017 that this book, co authored with journalist Peter McLoughlin would be banned. Though it is available here http://www.mohammeds-koran.com/store and here https://www.waterstones.com/book/mohammeds-koran/peter-mcloughlin/tommy-robinson/9780995584907
Amazon bans book co-written by Tommy Robinsonfrom their website
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@keithprosser
--> @keithprosserok, given notorious verses such as 2:191"And kill them wherever you overtake them"and 5:51"Do not take the Jews and the Christians friends"Shouldn't you be out there killing Christians rather than being friendly with them?- Who says I'm not already doing that... LOL! Seriously, I know. It's getting really old though. It's just baffling to me how they can quote that verse & say it incites violence against [insert whomever] with a straight face, as if they don't know that self defense is!! Of course, by conveniently omitting the whole context & the inconvenient bits, like when you read a classified document with all the blackouts... They see "kill them wherever you overtake them"... & not "Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you"..."but do not transgress'..."Allah does not like transgressors"..."... they have expelled you* ..."And do not fight them at the Holy Mosque until they fight you there"...'if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors"...etc.- As for the second verse, it's another interesting twist. The Salafis LOVE that, of course when it suits them. Thank God they aren't big on that mantra since Trump, now they are buddy-buddies. The classical schools, however, agree that befriending or loving non-Muslims is only prohibited in matters of religion, as the verses specify. That is, to befriend them or love them for their religion or to support their religion or support them against Muslims: "Allah does not forbid youfrom those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from acting kindly and justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers". (60:8-9), Obviously a Muslim can not support a non-Muslim to transgress against other Muslims, that's treason. The Prophet (pbuh) had a lot of non-Muslim friends whom he loved, particularly his uncle, his son-in-law, his Jewish neighbor... & a lot of allies among them too, the Christian Abyssinians, the Copts of Egypt, most Jewish tribes of Medina (except the three that betrayed him).,,etc! The whole notion is patently absurd.
I can't wait to watch prosser (challenge) pick holes in this absolute bullshit. But he won't. he's far too much of a fkn apologist. I wouldn't be surprised if he is tag teaming with his mate "yass". Away you go prosser, the floor is yours....... & yass'.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Yassine
If you're asking why God didn't give victory to the Muslims when they are in the right,
No I am NOT asking that. And I didn't ask that you snidey fkr did I. Nowhere do I say " when they were in the right"
This is exactly what I ask you:
Post 5 above
why had Allah failed his adherents in not rewarding the muslims victory at this time and not it seems, any other time before this conquering Turkish muslim hoard had taken swaths of Europe, the Holy Lands and and large parts of the Indian continent?
So stop editing my words to assist your answers.
then this equally extends to all other groups,
I didn't ask about "other groups" I asked SPECIFICALLY about Muslims. As you well know. So stop trying to conflate with muslims "other groups".
for all of them may taste victory as they taste defeat -as Christians in Europe were not given victory over Muslims in countless occasions.
Yes yes we know know all about European invasions of muslims and the forced conversions of the peoples of these lands by the sword. I have already covered that above.
In Islam, we don't believe victory is a sign of divine favor -unless in the cause of Allah ;
The Ottoman Empire was a muslim Empire wasn't it? Are you saying this devastating decisive defeat was not Allah's will? And that Alla had caused the defeat these murdering Muslim invaders?
The Ottomans conquered the eastern part of Europe,
And also deep into the Caucuses, north into France and South East Germany. Lets get it right.
they did not rule the Indian subcontinent!
The Muslim Ottomans invaded deep into the Indian subcontinent too and you know it . Stop lying.
So even with your interpretation,and for all your editing and conflation of my question of what I asked you, you have still failed to tell me why this decisive victory went to the Polish king and not the adherent faithful muslims of Allah.
Created:
-->
@disgusted
A bill of rights does not bestow freedom of speech
Again you actually need to bone up before you post and spout the complete bollocks you always spout.
The English Bill of Rights is an act that the Parliament of England passed on December 16, 1689. The Bill creates separation of powers, limits the powers of the king and queen, enhances the democratic election and bolsters freedom of speech.
Created:
-->
@ResurgetExFavilla
How is that respectful? If a convent was shot up, would it be respectful for a politician to dress up in a habit to make a speech? After the Japanese earthquake and Tsunami, should Obama have gotten into his Noh theatre makeup and dressed Michele up in a kimono? Should our leaders don the cheongsam to discuss tragedy in China? A saree when Bangladesh floods?It seems just weird to me. Maybe not necessarily insulting, but bizarre. I mean, Jacinda Ardern is a pretty outspoken feminist and an agnostic who left the Mormon church, who lives with a man whom she isn't wed to, has a child by him, and sees this as a superior arrangement, the 'way of the future'. Her stated beliefs run 100% antithetical to what the hijab stands for, which is humility and submission to God, things which she clearly sees as old fashioned and not for her. Is it 'respectful' for a stripper to wear a nun's habit? That seems like a more extreme situation, but in the same vein. If she isn't wearing the hijab because she respects what it stands for, then she's really just using it as a prop to elevate herself. After all, she wasn't doing too well politically until this shooting hit, she's a politician. When politicians see an opportunity for good press, they'll do anything.The 'solidarity' movement was also founded by a bunch of affluent white women. This is a pretty notorious group when it comes to cheap tokenism and self-aggrandizing slacktivism.
I really love this post. BRILLIANT!
Created:
-->
@disgusted
Whoops. Foot in mouth.
disgusted wrote: Respect. Something wingnuts know nothing about, especially Slump and Stephen. Such sad little people
The backhand was beautiful:
ResurgetExFavilla responded: How is that respectful? If a convent was shot up, would it be respectful for a politician to dress up in a habit to make a speech? After the Japanese earthquake and Tsunami, should Obama have gotten into his Noh theatre makeup and dressed Michele up in a kimono?Should our leaders don the cheongsam to discuss tragedy in China? A saree when Bangladesh floods?I mean, Jacinda Ardern is a pretty outspoken feminist and an agnostic who left the Mormon church, who lives with a man whom she isn't wed to, has a child by him, and sees this as a superior arrangement, the 'way of the future'. Her stated beliefs run 100% antithetical to what the hijab stands for, which is humility and submission to God, things which she clearly sees as old fashioned and not for her.
The clown disgusted obviously didn't understand the post. Didn't notice the hypocrisy of Ardern, couldn't recognise the double standards displayed by Ardern, or realise that, as ResurgetExFavilla states, that Jacinda Ardern is a self serving opportunist politician whose career is in the slide.
Hats off to the clown disgusted. Put his big hooter into something he understands nothing about.
Created:
-->
@keithprosser
That is what people in those days would have believed, yes.
Maybe Yass will concede that Sobieski had a more powerful god than the muslims had "in those days". In so doing admit that there is more than one god.
Created:
-->
@keithprosser
"And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."
And obviously a more powerful and intelligent god , too.
Created:
-->
@keithprosser
I disussed things withYassine last week.
I read that, nothing there in the slightest concerning "the best way tocounter it" though, is there? Unless I have missed missed it.
No doubt he will want to answer you highly topical question first.
Not without lying he won't. Then he will respond with a question of his own as you do often . He will then bury the post under plies of irrelevant bullshit and by doing this, he somehow believes that he as answered the primary question.... which he hasn't, and never does.
Created:
-->
@keithprosser
I think we are all aware that radicalisation occurs
And they do nothing about it, is my point, you buffoon. WHY????? This BBC report ONLY came 18 months AFTER the Manchester bombing and 2 years after the imam at Didsbury Mosque called for "military Jihad" in a 3 hour sermon. But even you admit they knew as "we all knew"? Al Noor NZ, it was exactly the same. 4 YEARS before there had been a hate preacher there and at least three jihadis from that mosque had gone to fight jihad and died. how many had visited and preached hate in that 4 years?
But somehow I think machine gunning ordinary muslims isn't the best way to counter it.
Then why don't you discuss what is "the best way to counter it" with Yassine? here>>>
But you will have to keep in mind that "Islam is the perfect religion of the one god Allah", before Yassine will entertain you.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Yassine
Anyone wishes to debate on the topic of Islam?
John III Sobieski. After his victories over the Muslim Turkish Empire- aka the Muslim Ottoman empire the muslims called him the "Lion of Lechistan"; and the Pope hailed him as the savior of Christendom.
Did Sobieski deserve both these titles and why had Allah failed his adherents in not rewarding the muslims victory at this time and not it seems, any other time before this conquering Turkish muslim hoard had taken swaths of Europe, the Holy Lands and and large parts of the Indian continent?
Created:
-->
@ResurgetExFavilla
Why is the prime minister of New Zealand doing these interviews in hijab?
Appeasement? She is no different to the bonehead coward we have here in the UK; Theresa - the appeaser - May. While on the one hand she said about the NZ murders, "this will not be tolerated and should be condemned by every person with a soul",: the families of the Manchester islamic terror bombing victims were told (ordered) not to "be angry", "Islam was a religion of peace, don't look back in anger, and give peace a fkn chance!". ,
Where was the outpouring of grief and condemnation by the masses of the muslim communities of the UK for the children blown up in Manchester?
That Al Noor Mosque in Christchurch NZ had radicalised at least three people and had invited hate preachers to speak there and not a thing was done to stop it.
Similarly the same happened concerning Salman Abedi of the Didsbury Mosque Manchester where it was also revealed that 16 jihadis from that mosque had gone to, and returned from fighting JIHAD in Syria.
Manchester mosque sermon 'called for armed jihad', say scholars
A sermon at the mosque where the Manchester bomber worshipped called for the support of armed jihadist fighters, according to two Muslim scholars.
An imam at Didsbury Mosque in December 2016 was recorded praying for "victory" for "our brothers and sisters right now in Aleppo and Syria and Iraq".
Scholars Usama Hasan and Shaykh Rehan said it referred to "military jihad".
The imam, Mustafa Graf, says his sermon did not call for armed jihad and he has never preached radical Islam.
The recording the BBC obtained is of Friday prayers at the mosque six months before Salman Abedi detonated a suicide bomb following an Ariana Grande concert at Manchester Arena in May 2017.
Abedi and his family regularly attended the mosque and his father sometimes led the call to prayer."
The recording proved him to be a liar. no surprises there then.
Video recording here>>
Created:
-->
@Outplayz
bc it is a profound love they have for their religion. (Which is another thing that's dangerous... obsession over primitive texts).
Which is a large factor when it comes to Islam, the CULTURE of muslims IS ISLAM
I am the least bit afraid of death...
On a personal level neither am I.
i actually can't wait to see if i'm spiritually right.
Will you ever know you was wrong?
I will even go as far as saying i'm more powerful than Allah.
Well, John Lennon said something similar concerning The Christ and the Beatles didn't come out of that too well at the time. So don't tell your friends that you are "more powerful than Allah"https://www.google.com/search?q=beatles+more+famous+than+christ&sa=X&rlz=1C1DSGK_en-gbGB437GB453&biw=1536&bih=723&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=kzwse-JitjvqHM%253A%252CaFuBNWfnjAMDiM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kTZxfCVvO8hUicrmqvoyilFBtlwMg&ved=2ahUKEwjSmP2l6JzhAhXuUBUIHQh6BiwQ9QEwAHoECAsQBg#imgrc=kzwse-JitjvqHM:
So don't tell your friends that you are "more powerful than Allah". And remember, Salman Rushdie only wrote a novel and he now has a fatwa on his head of over $4,000,000.
Only narcissistic gods will not find enjoyment in opposition that beats it...
Most of these gods are just egotistical, self serving Narcissists.
i will never worship an easily offended god, bc that isn't god by definition.
Any god that has to repeatedly remind his worshipers that he is the one and only god , isn't worth worshiping in my books.
i think this can bring Christianity back into another age of darkness.
This is interesting in that I think the opposite may well happen IN RESPONSE TO Islam. Christianity in the West is not popular at the moment, the churches are empty for the best part of the year and only open for funerals and weddings. Well that is how I see it here in the UK . But I do believe it will be forced to reinstate its position here as a CHRISTIAN, patriotic country. here>>
One country, two religions and three very telling pictures: The empty pews at churches just yards from an overcrowded mosque https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2332998/One-country-religions-telling-pictures-The-pews-churches-just-yards-overcrowded-mosque.htmlNo doubt the keithprossers of the world will accuse me of stirring up "hate" of Muslims when is all I am doing is starting and showing you the facts.
But i really do like how you said it, these minorities can pack a punch
I am sick of hearing the phrase " just a tiny tiny few muslims". It is purposefully used in the disingenuous manner that it intends by the MSM and by apologist.. And it wasn't just the "minority" nazis as I mentioned that cause millions of deaths. No, the majority of Russians were peaceful too this didn't stop the majority killing 20 million, again, The majority were irrelevant. In China it was the same story where the minority went on to butcher its was across south East Asia killing 12 million. The majority were irrelevant.
if they get pushed enough.
They don't have to be "pushed" too far though do they, just draw a cartoon and away they go, screaming to kill every new born baby kufar they can get their murderous hands on.
Created:
-->
@Outplayz
it's ancient text. Who knows if the prophet didn't put debate, but then some power hungry warrior switched it to fight.
Well just think of the many problems this would solve if this was indeed the case?
Have you researched any Muslim Islamic sources /scholars to find out if this may be the case? And have they agreed that these "ancient texts" have indeed been tampered with and altered and by whom? And have they suggested that these "ancient text" be returned to their original state?
And keep in my, i also interpret by thinking what would a perfect god mean.
So do millions of the 1.5 billion muslims who believe that it is the "perfect UNALTERABLE word of Allah" and understand "kill" to mean only one thing. How do you interpret the word "kill".
Would it want more death? I don't know.
See last response above..
Haven't read the Koran in a while. But from what i did, i am fully in agreement with you that it's dangerous.
It is.
bc the word fighting could mean a verbal fight too.
I am sure that the perfect god and the perfect prophet would know the difference between a verbal argument of words and to fight in holy battle of Jihad and why he wrote those words.
be construed to mean to fight
It cannot be construed any other way. I am sorry to say.
However, even Christianity can become dangerous.
No. I think you mean, Christians, can become dangerous. And you would be absolutely correct. But not on the instruction of their leader The Christ. He teaches turn the other cheek, love your neighbor, give away your sock, shoes, coat hat and scarf, your house, live stock all the rest your belongings.
We never know how or who will be interpreting it in the future, or how it will change.
Well the important thing is to understand how the millions of the 14.5 Billion muslims are interpreting it today.
One little change to Jesus like, "you know your flawed and will do flawed things, but repent and i'll be with you again." I don't know, just a small change.
It would. But you understand that in reality, it will not and cannot happen. It would mean muslims will have to change the "unalterable word of god" .
Now, these future humans would think, well maybe i'm born to sin and keep coming back to god... that's my test. So said person becomes an evil drug lord killing humans for his/her success, and repents every night. I don't know, that's just one hypothetical but it is pretty conspicuous it has the potential to violence just like any other man-made text.
Posed and answered in the same paragraph
See what religion does? It's just natural land, stones, rocks, wood, etc... that you can have anywhere, but no god says this is our land so i will kill you if you try to take it.
The god of the ancient hebrews ordered the murder and the taking of land. The muslim god has ordered that everyone on the planet submit to his/Islam. And has taken great swathes of the planet three or four times. You don't have to tell me "what religion does" my friend.
All it does is turn good people into monsters..
It can and if it is appeased by those who should know FKN better.
i mean, they feel like they are fighting for the survival of their loved ones,
And in many cases they are.
Created:
-->
@Analgesic.Spectre
But yeah, I feel for you, Stephen. The U.K. is quickly becoming swamped with Muslim immigration and anti-White/anti-U.K. sentiments. I'm sorry this is happening to your country. Just know that the people, who can actually see what are going, on are with you.God save the Queen.
Thank you , it is comforting to know.. God save the Queen, indeed.,
Created:
-->
@Deb-8-a-bull
In my opinion, you are right to say your MOM 3;17 isn't right, and right to say MOM 28;9 is right and right to say your DAD 78:44 is right.
Created:
-->
@keithprosser
No. But maybe i'm trying touild a bridge with you.
Maybe ? As much as you like to impress upon others reading here that I and my opinions are a problem I am not your problem.
And you still haven't answered a single point I have made . Why is that?
I take it you don't want to resolve the issue with a blood bath.
True, but doesn't that make me a coward in your eyes?
Lets see, are here we are, your attempt at building bridges with me,
--> @keithprosser I am your enemy because I think you are a hater, post 9and at post 12 same thread
Reply--> @keithprosser I can believe you've never done any physical violence. You don't have the balls. you just use language designed to incite others to violence.
As anyone can see, the foundations of your bridge building we me don't seem to have a very good foundations, do they keith?
I am still waiting for examples of your accusations at post 9.Me posting a tweet by muslim MP Naz Shah is hardly going to "incite anyone to violence" . But even if it did, you would blame the secondary problem ( me in this case) and never address the fact that Naz Shah posted the vile racist tweet in the first and primary instance. As you have shown already. You proved my point.
Created:
-->
@keithprosser
I linked to the detailed 72 page report that explains the reasoning behind the definition in a previous post.
And I linked to one here explaining its very large pitfalls and ambiguous text.
"It is therefore all the more puzzling that the All Party Parliamentary Group Should call for the government to adopt a definition of Islamophobia as “rooted in racism” and “a type of racism that targets expressions of Muslimness or perceived Muslimness” – a definition of Islamophobia which, in their own words,“racialises” Islam.
>>>>>>>Yet their report even quotes the distinguished Professor Tariq Modood condemning such racialisation as a “specific process” that characterises Islamophobia.<<<<<<
Unfortunately, >>>>the APPG’s confused report<<<< Islamophobia Defined demonstrates that >>>>its authors appear to understand neither the concept of racism nor the meaning of Islamophobia. <<<<
As Policy Exchange’s Research Note explains, despite the undoubted good intentions of MPs on the committee, >>>>the adoption of this definition would be a grave mistake, undoing much of the good work to integrate Muslim communities during the past quarter century or so. <<<<<
Trevor Phillips man "of colour" OBE, this well educated and Honoured must be a racist and a bigoted "Islamophobe". To not agree in the slightest with these left wing liberals such as yourself , eh keith.
Created: