Total posts: 8,861
This is really drifting away from the OP.
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@n8nrgim
@Tradesecretyou're one of the few left on this site that believes the bible has no errors in it. what do you think of this hypothetical?
Well, I have my beer on the sideboard here and sent Mrs Stephen for the scratchings and crisps.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
@ n8nrgim,YOUR QUOTE TO THE #1 BIBLE FOOL MISS TRADESECRET WITHIN THIS RELIGION FORUM! LOL!!!: "you're one of the few left on this site that believes the bible has no errors in it. what do you think of this hypothetical? "ROFLOL!!! Listen up you equal Bible fool to Miss Tradesecret, here you RUN AWAY from literal godly biblical posts to you that are NOT IN ERROR, and then you want the #1 Bible ignorant and Stupid fool Miss Tradesecret to address your hypothetical? Are you FU*KING CRAZY?!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Some take longer to learn from their own mistakes Brother D.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
Well it is simply common practice now for the Reverend Tradesecret to open the gate wide with this not very well thought out comment, but what's new?
Tradesecret wrote: "To suggest therefore that it (Atheism) teaches peace is nonsense. And for any atheist to agree with you - it would be nothing less than hypocritical. "
Dividing the family unit is what Jesus most certainly did in his teaching yet s/he has the brass bollocks to speak about " atheist hypocrisy"😂
“If any man come to Me and hate not his father and mother, and wife and children, and brethren and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
Luke 14:26
Is the Reverend trying to tell us that dividing the family unit is a perfect exercise in teaching about "peace", Brother D?
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@Sidewalker
@eventuality001Cut and paste nonsense.But no less valid questions, regardless of their source.Except for being made up nonsense.I see. And you know this how, exactly?It comes from being knowledgeable about the subject matter, you should try it some time.I see.Then you will have absolutely no problem addressing the OP's questions will you. Which up to now, you have simply dismissed as "nonsense" without a single piece of evidence.Sorry kiddie, I'm afraid you are gonna have to be the expert on both nonsense and Mohammud LOL
So from the very beginning you have had absolutely no intention or interest in responding to the OP's questions that have been posed to the likes of you that claim to be "knowledgeable on this particular "subject matter".
You should be banned just for admitting that you are only on this forum to stir shit and cause conflict and have no interest in conversation or discussion even when it concerns your own claimed "knowledge and expertise" in this particular "subject matter".
I suppose you don't mind looking like a complete bellend!🤣
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@Sidewalker
@eventuality001Cut and paste nonsense.But no less valid questions, regardless of their source.Except for being made up nonsense.I see. And you know this how, exactly?It comes from being knowledgeable about the subject matter, you should try it some time.
I see.
Then you will have absolutely no problem addressing the OP's questions will you. Which up to now, you have simply dismissed as "nonsense" without a single piece of evidence.
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@Sidewalker
@eventuality001Cut and paste nonsense.But no less valid questions, regardless of their source.Except for being made up nonsense.
I see. And you know this how, exactly?
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@Sidewalker
@eventuality001Cut and paste nonsense.
But no less valid questions, regardless of their source.
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@IlDiavolo
so I can suppose that the writers were inspired by the greek phylosophy.[.........................] it squares perfectly because the gospels were written in greek,
Indeed.
The Israelites had been under Greek rule for some 500 years before the Roman rule. Generations had been born and raised in Greek society taking on the Greek culture and its gods. They had drifted from their original god, the god of Jacob/Israel and had become Hellenised. This part of their history is missing from the gospels. . These generations were the" lost sheep" that it is said by Jesus to have come to find , reunite , save and to tie back to their original roots, faith and god. i.e. those that had "fell away". Hence the parables of the lost coin, son and sheep:
“I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
The word religion literally means to - tie back.
There were many Jewish revolts against the Greeks and on which the bible is silent about.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
I am sure you would agree, TRUE Christians like myself have to have the concept of “Original Sin,” otherwise there would be no need whatsoever for Jesus to come to earth to save us from our sins in the first place!
Yes, another dilemma for the Christian Church. Is it any wonder they had to change the story and pile all the blame on us.
Lest you forget, not only did Jesus as God state that because Eve transgressed FIRST in being the impetus of “Original Sin,” {.........................}
I believe that you are speaking of the post Jesus story as relayed in Timothy ?
The idea of "Original Sin" is a fascinating subject all of its own, in my opinion, Brother D. It is clear from the much earlier story of the so called "fall of mankind" that it was gods own sons that were the transgressors as the Sumerian epic and the Book of Enoch clearly spell out. It was they that had "sinned" against god in the first instance.
And it has to be taken into account what god himself has to say in the Genesis version: " whom I created,” then going on to state "for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth".
To corrupt something there had to be a state or condition where there was something unspoiled to begin with. And Genesis goes on and talks about what man has become because of his spoiling or corrupting nature with which he was created through Eve.
But let me tell you this. Humans have never needed a sinful nature to make them sin.
Wasn't the first sin ever committed- committed by "the devil himself" ? He didn't have a sinful nature to make him sin, did he? Then there are the angels that " fell from heaven". So did not they too have a sinful nature to make them sin. It is only then that Eve is said to have sinned. She did not have a sinful nature to make her sin. Then, why should it be thought necessary for all men to be born with a sinful nature to account for their sins? Were not the son's of god created first?
It is the firm belief of Christians and the Christian Church that the son's of god "fell" i.e. sinned; the bible is riddled with verses telling us this, 2 Peter being just one. But the Pastors, Chaplains and Priests can never face up to - going by their own beliefs - that the son's of god too must have had been created /born with the same sinful nature. They -the Pastors, Chaplains and Priests - will ignore the clear biblical fact that it was only after the son's of god sinned, that Eve is said to have sinned and not before, while also ignoring the what we have and are, all comes from god according to their very own ideology!
If every man "born of women" did "inherit sin" from Eve "the mother of all living" then it came from only one place; god.
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@Greyparrot
Let's import this kind of diversity.
Not sure about the USA but here in England it was always been against the will of the majority of the population. I wasn't ask If I wanted it and neither was anyone I know. Ex Prime Ministers' Tony Blair & Gordon Brown foisted this on us. Indeed, PM Brown swore to "rub their noses in diversity"; how he thought that would make him popular or was some how serving our country is beyond me? Merkle did the same in Germany as did other European leaders did to their countries.. Sweden for instance have been suffering acts of terrorism of one sort or another almost on a daily basis for years now: hardly ever reported.
Its only now all Prime Ministers including Blair have come out and admitted that their social experiment of ' multiculturalism and diversity hasn't worked '.
But still the the boats are escorted to our shores .
For me, the warning shot was fired across our bows when Salomon Rushdie wrote a novel and the riots that followed across the Middle East 1988/9. . This should have given all Western Governments a window into the future. But to speak out on these seriously dangerous issues I and many others was labelled racist bigots and eventually labelled with newly invented woke non word - " Islamophobic".
You still have a chance to do something about it over there in the USA and to save your country being turned into the shithole that my once green and pleasant land has now become.
I hope the god of the USA does bless you, but don't rely on it or him.
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@IlDiavolo
I'm pretty sure this story of Adam and Eve has a raison d'etre only known by the person who wrote it.......
I think in the bible authors version he tried to hide it.
Interesting point if we are to compare the Genesis creation story with the original Mesopotamian creation epic written thousand of years before the bible was even thought of.
In this much earlier story the Serpent was non other than another god, the Lord EA Enki half brother to Enlil the ruling god. He took a likening to the earthling woman and slipped inside her; something that was a total taboo for the gods and their sons.
Genesis appears to touch on this story but affords us just two lines concerning the whole saga. One will be forgiven for believing that the bible authors wished to brush over the whole episode a quickly as possible; simply writing:
"the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose", and that is it!
The Sumerian story fills in some of the the missing parts. They have it that these son's of gods saw these "daughters of men" and raped them. As punishment for they were forced to marry them and remain on earth never to return to their heavenly stations.
But the punishments wasn't because they had committed rape, it was because they had "defiled themselves" by having sex with these daughters of men.
Is it any wonder the Book of Enoch was wasn't included in the bible? For according to Enoch, the leaders of this gang rape were two son's/angels of god named Azazel and Shemyaza and it was for this reason that they were bound in chains to await the fires of hell; <<< reminiscent of Revelation and referred to in a recent post I made to you here>>#13
Interestingly, when these " daughters of men " gave birth, the resulting off - spring were rather on the large side. Maybe this is why when we read of Eve's punishment she is told:
"“I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children". ?
All good stuff, me thinks.
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The Idea of Original Sin is believed by Christians to have come about thousands of years ago in the Garden of Eden located in Mesopotamia( modern-day Iraq) by, we are told, a woman that had a conversation with a "serpent".
God by all accounts had warned her husband to- be, Adam not to eat from the all knowing tree of good and evil or he would die the same day. But it turns out that Eve after a conversation with a serpent took its advice and decided to have a good ole' chomp of its fruit regardless. It has to be noted though, that Eve was never given this warning against the tree; he had warned only the Adam and at a time before Eve was even created. But this didn't stop the Church placing all the blame for original sin on the woman; Eve, and as a result all those "born of woman" are sinful, i.e. we have all inherited sin; Eve was now a temptress and seducer in the eyes of the Church and all done no doubt to establish male superiority over the woman and the so the women is informed that for encouraging the Adam and casting her influences upon him against god will , " your husband will rule over you".
At this point it is only the Adam that is exiled "Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden". And it is not until later in the story we discover that Eve followed him. And they dwelt in the land of Elda.
We then hear of a secondary problem for the gods. It was another tree, the Tree of Life and it appears that this problematic tree was also the cause of the Adams expulsion "lest he put forth his hand and eat and live forever and be like us" although he hadn't touched this tree he was deprived of any of its benefit regardless.
It is difficult to understand the context of this whole saga, where the serpent has come from. Because god had created all the animals before he created the Adam yet not a single word about the creation of a serpent with the power to oppose him. Buy all accounts god had looked over his creation and "saw that it was good". But without any explanation a serpent with the human voice appears a totally independent creature over which god has no control!?
As I have wrote about in another thread - https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9943-the-myth-of-satan?page=1&post_number=1 - the Church dogma on the serpent /satan anomaly but doesn't appear anywhere in Genesis.
It wasn't until the church Father, St Augustine of Hippo of North Africa had pronounced in the 4th century that because Eve had enchanted and enticed her husband to eat from the forbidden tree that he pronounced the doctrine of "Original Sin" which insists to this very day. It maintains that owning to the transgression of Eve "mother of all living" all people are born is sin simply by virtue of having mothers!.
Of course, as per usual, it must have slipped the minds of the early Church Bishops that this would have included, Jesus.
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@Best.Korea
How can you explain the existence of everything without God?God is literally the only explanation for the existence of everything.Checkmate, atheists!No matter how many times that you pose this question or variations of, the burden of proof will always lay with those that make the claim.So, you have checkmated yourself unless (1) You can confirm which god your talking about. (2) You can prove his existence. (3) You can prove where he came from.So you cant answer this simple question?
I haven't made any claims , you have done that.
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@Best.Korea
How can you explain the existence of everything without God?God is literally the only explanation for the existence of everything.Checkmate, atheists!
No matter how many times that you pose this question or variations of, the burden of proof will always lay with those that make the claim.
So, you have checkmated yourself unless (1) You can confirm which god your talking about. (2) You can prove his existence. (3) You can prove where he came from.
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@zedvictor4
Not so many of these Prophet types seem to have been farmers though.
The so called prophets usually came from rich families with rich and influential friends in high and low places.. They leached off of the hard labour of their slave workers & peasants. They put the fear of god and the devil into them so the would cough up their last penny, or "widow's last mite". And not a lot changed for millennia. I have sat in a church where there were only four parishioners, old they were, this didn't stop the plate being passed around.
So conmen who defrauded elderly women, is about the strength of it.
So says the bible. "Yet they shamelessly cheat widows out of their property and then pretend to be pious by making long prayers in public." according to Luke.
And so J the B was the greatest insectivore then.
Who knows? It may have been the caviar of the day, Vic? Still. One has to wonder how he survived all those battles for and against Herod (if I remember right) on such a diet.
Still. It appears - as I my self prophesised - that no one will to want to leap to the defence of the so called prophet, John the Baptist.
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@IlDiavolo
Of course, we all know that what they really want is to have a monopoly on the tithe. Hahahahahaha.
Which they had for sometime.
One tenth of annual produce or earnings, formerly taken as a tax for the support of the Church and Clergy such as Pastors , Chaplains and Priests. Or it could be a case of a misspelling of the word - profit? There again the bible does say that John the Baptists had lived only on "locusts and honey" all his life. Must have been the caviar of its day.
Leviticus 27:30 where it says “A tenth of the produce of the land, whether grain or fruit, is the Lord's, and is holy.” And Proverbs 3:9 says, “Honour the Lord with your wealth, with the first fruits of all your crops.”.......... And steal the odd grieving widows home from underneath her. John 3:16
I wonder did "the Lord" himself actually ever get to sniff a single mite donated by the widows? Mark 12:42-44KJV
The "miracle" here is that the once backward, uneducated and illiterate peasants began to be educated and learned to read and write. They began to read and study the bible for themselves only to realise that they had been lied to for over two millennia by the Pastors and Priests.
Thankfully those days are gone now for the many that can think for themselves.
Much of the money the church manages to reap now seems to be spent on law suits and pay-outs of ££££millions in compensation to its victims of sexual abuse.
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@Sidewalker
n8nrgim asked a question,
There is no question addressed to me from n8nrgim at all. and there is no question addressed to you either. So there is nothing to answer. I did though, address his comments directed to me. HERE>#6. So stop lying. AND DERAILING MY THREAD FURTHER!!
Would you like to have another go Sidewalker ?
Here you are, note the underlined.:
Sidewalker wrote @n8nrgim: That's not it, it's way too personal and obsessive for that, this is about a person. There is a Christian he is deeply angry with but it's someone he is afraid to address directly.
If I am not constrained by C of C rules and I knew who you were referring to, I would most certainly address "directly" the "person" it is you have in mind but you appear far too afraid to mention, as I have all posters on this, my thread.
What exactly are you waiting for?
I am waiting for you to tell me who the "Christian person " is that you believe I am "afraid to address"? that you speak of HERE> #8
If you haven't the balls to spit it out and name this certain "Christian person" I would like you to kindly leave my thread. Or you could try addressing the topic .
And stop being sneaky and cowardly by not tagging me when you are responding to me directly.
p.s. I haven't "whined" to anyone. It's all in your mind.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
My favorite of Miss Tradesecret's ungodly Bible rewrites, was within the Noah's Ark thread a while back. Whereas because of my direct biblical axiom of having 8 pairs of each kind of animal upon the Ark (Genesis 7:2) and there being 1.2 million animal species alone, without fish, birds, dinosaurs, etc., then with the math being done, there were 19.2 million animal species upon the Ark that was only approximately 500 feet long, and 60 feet wide, with three separate decks! (Genesis 6:13-16)To try and cover this biblical axiom and blatant FACTS shown above, Miss Tradesecret had the audacity to state that my serial killer Jesus as God put "infants" upon the Ark instead of full grown animals!
So that made all the difference then😒. This thread is all about the meaning of evidence, Brother D. When has the Reverend ever offered a single piece of evidence for any of his claims, never mind proof?
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
you[ Critical-Tim] had to change topics to Intersubjectivity, Concise Explanations, yada, yada, yada to try and save face in front of the membership! LOL!
Nail on head, Brother D.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Deb.
Lets look at just one of only three "raisings of the dead" performed by Jesus: The daughter of Jairus.
Like many of these so called miraculous raisings of "dead" bodies, there is a problem with this story.
When we take closer look at the “dead daughter” story we can see that either Jesus lied or he didn’t perform a miracle.
18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, "My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live". <<< [Here then the daughter is dead and expired, unless this "certain ruler" didn't know what a corpse looked like and with it being his own daughter!]
19 And Jesus arose, and followed him, and so did his disciples. [And by all accounts performing a quick miracle on the way!]
20 And, behold, a woman, which was diseased with an issue of blood twelve years, came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment:
21 For she said within herself, If I may but touch his garment, I shall be whole.
22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.
23 And when Jesus came into the ruler's house, and saw the minstrels and the people making a noise,
24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.
25 But when the people were put forth, he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose.
26 And the fame hereof went abroad into all that land. Matthew 9:18-26 King James Version
So if the “certain” ruler’s daughter is dead - her father would know the difference between dead and alive - , then either Jesus lied when he said she was only sleeping or Jesus was telling the truth and there was no miracle performed at all.
Which is it deb?
And notice Deb, there isn't a single mention of prayer in this story of miracles. Not even a - get up dead not dead daughter and be alive again - , no deb, not a single words came from the mouth of Jesus. There's not even a "thank you Lord" come to that!
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@IlDiavolo
@FLRW
@Best.Korea
One has to ask; if A Satan of the Old Testament and the Christian created "devil" are one and the same entity as the Christian Church insists, then what ever gave the devil the idea that he could test god/son of god?
But we can read this is was supposed to have happened when we turn to Matthew 4:1 where we are informed:
Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
By further reading of this unwitnessed story it shouldn't go un-noticed story that the New Testament compilers use both titles Satan - devil for the same entity.
4 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:
“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’”
7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’”
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”
11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.
Well apart from the fact that there were only two present one has to wonder how and why this story was put together in the first instance. And why did the son of god need testing or tempting at all!? And as I have already mentioned above, what gave the devil the idea that he could test god/son of god in the first place?
This story if it is at all to be believed can only make sense if we read with the full knowledge of what A Satans' /son of god (the bene ha - elohim) duty and function was as I have set out above #1 last paragraph.
It also has to be considered too something that the early Church Bishops had seriously overlooked concerning their created satan-devil- serpent. But that is for another day, unless someone decides to point it out before I do so.
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@Sidewalker
Obviously, the agenda is to control the conversation and suppress the free exchange of ideas and opinions,
Not at all. It is simply required that you stay on topic. You have not at all attempted to express or exchanged any ideas or opinions of the topic matter, have you?
but how exactly are the kinds of questions that can be asked
But you haven't asked any questions have you? You have gone right for the throat of the author and not the throat of the argument or whole point of the thread.
I have even addressed something that you have raised with another member on this thread that had absolutely nothing to do with the topic but was kind enough to address you anyway. But then what did you do?, you ignored it and have now started a dispute with a moderator! <<<<<<This is something you should have done in a PM as not to further derail this topic.
Would you like to have another go Sidewalker ?
Here you are, note the underlined.:
Sidewalker wrote @n8nrgim: That's not it, it's way too personal and obsessive for that, this is about a person. There is a Christian he is deeply angry with but it's someone he is afraid to address directly.
If I am not constrained by C of C rules and I knew who you were referring to, I would most certainly address "directly" the "person" it is you have in mind but you appear far too afraid to mention, as I have all posters on this, my thread.
So when you're ready.
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@zedvictor4
So how did these Prophet guys make a living.Were they paid by GOD.
I suppose they considered they were, Vic. One tenth of annual produce or earnings, formerly taken as a tax for the support of the Church and Clergy such as Pastors , Chaplains and Priests. Or it could be a case of a misspelling of the word - profit? There again the bible does say that John the Baptists had lived only on "locusts and honey" all his life.
Leviticus 27:30 where it says “A tenth of the produce of the land, whether grain or fruit, is the Lord's, and is holy.” And Proverbs 3:9 says, “Honour the Lord with your wealth, with the first fruits of all your crops.”.......... And steal the odd grieving widows home from underneath her. John 3:16
I wonder did "the Lord" himself actually ever get to sniff a single mite donated by the widows? Mark 12:42-44KJV
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@n8nrgim
But the point here is the double standards of the Church. Have you read my example from the bible? Do you agree that Pharaohs' priests were magicians and sorcerers ?I missed that part. It's possible the Bible made a mistake,Mistaken about what, exactly?it's possible evil sources can do the supernatural too,So are you saying then that the priests of Pharaoh were just plain evil? Or somehow possessed ?Sorcerers and magicians in bible days might have just been slight of hand and....
I think the bible and god takes these things a little more serious than conjuring tricks and slight of hand. Indeed such people that practiced "slight of hand" as you put it, were put to death and then sent to the everlasting fires of hell.
Talking of which, didn't Moses himself use "slight of hand" when trying to convince the Hebrews that he was sent from god? But the church calls this a miracle? I could have performed exactly the same slight of hand and would have been accused of devil worship and demon worship and burned at the stake, why do you think that is?
the Bible is being misleading to call magic
Well the bible calls it a miracle from god when Aaron performed it, but when the priests of Pharaoh did the same it was called sorcery. This is the double standards I am hoping you can explain. Have you even read the biblical story which I have highlighted ?
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
Relative to your initial post, the pseudo-christian never reports the miracles that didn't 't work, but only the ones that "allegedly" did.
Indeed the church teaches the ritual of prayer - "ask and you will be given to", etc.
From an old thread of mine https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5587-the-bibles-most-cruel-lie
December 14 2019.
Church attempts resurrection of a dead two year old child, through Prayer
“We have a precedent” said Pastor Bill, “Jesus raised the dead”.
He said “there was no time limit on how much longer the prayers and singing would continue, but added that the child remained at the county coroner's office”.
Interesting that Jesus also commanded any one that followed him to:
“Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give”. Matthew 10:7-8 .
They appear to have done everything by the book too:
“'Since that night, and at the continued request of the Heiligenthal family, Bethel Church has hosted prayer and worship gatherings which consist of singing and prayer,' the church said in a statement”.
Interesting it is that the bible informs its adherents to continue praying! And to “never give up”. Luke 18.
The baby’s funeral was eventually held December22.
What happened here ? “Ye of little faith”or the wrong faith?
It appears that the only thing “raised” during this whole sad sorry saga was $62,000 (“unforeseen expenses” don’t you know) via a GoFundMe page. I can hear Pastor Bill sermonising Acts 2:45 as I write.
It isn't hard at all to find hundreds of cases where every single devout religious grieving parent was denied what they asked for in their payers.
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@n8nrgim
But the point here is the double standards of the Church. Have you read my example from the bible? Do you agree that Pharaohs' priests were magicians and sorcerers ?I missed that part. It's possible the Bible made a mistake,
Mistaken about what, exactly?
it's possible evil sources can do the supernatural too,
So are you saying then that the priests of Pharaoh were just plain evil? Or somehow possessed ?
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@n8nrgim
Christians can show evidence of things that look supernatural and r inexplicable.
And I have said to you before, Some say "supernatural" while others will simply say unexplainable.#42
But the point here is the double standards of the Church. Have you read my example from the bible? Do you agree that Pharaohs' priests were magicians and sorcerers ?
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@ponikshiy
Palestineans have rejected peace with Israel several times in exchange for land several times because they just want war.
And Arafat had no intention of keeping the Oslo Accord signed in 1993
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@n8nrgim
@Sidewalker
Sidewalker wrote @n8nrgim: That's not it, it's way too personal and obsessive for that, this is about a person. There is a Christian he is deeply angry with but it's someone he is afraid to address directly.
If I am not constrained by C of C rules and I knew who you were referring to, I would most certainly address "directly" the "person" it is you have in mind but appear too afraid to mention as I have all posters on this, my thread.
So when you're ready.
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@Sidewalker
@FLRWI LOVE SMART PEOPLE !!!!! That must be what God says.Sidewalker, wrote: I think he must love idiots even more, why else would he have made so many of them.
2.4 billion followers around the world and that's just one religion among many. You may well have a point?
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The devil by many accounts is believed by Christians to be a master of "trickery" and one would suppose it natural enough for the Church to have us all believe that magic is the work of the devil.
Yet apart from the well know so called miracles familiar to the Jesus of the gospels; exorcism, laying on of hand and showing of faith, Marks gospel states that Jesus ordained his own disciples with the same power to be able to do likewise such as heal the sick 'cast out devils, demons and unclean spirits', as he himself had done.
But from the Christian perspective they are presented to us as miracles, but when performed by those of another faith or religion or no religion at all they are considered by the Church to be unacceptable magic or witchcraft or sorcery. Although, the table was once seemed to have been turned on Jesus when the temple authorities accused him of using or appropriating the use of a devilish spirit to heal the sick.
The difference in attitude obviously lies in the recognized legitimacy of the act in accordance with different standpoint and religious belief. If a Christian Pastor or Priest performs a healing, it is without question said to have been done via the help of god. But if a heretic achieves the same result, it is said to be magic and deemed to be the work of the devil with the church proclaiming "by the glory of god" while the heretic stands accused of it being the work of the devil and an abomination.
So it is then that those that practice "magic" without sanction from the Church were identified as sorcerers that attracted and used evil spirits with the use of rituals and incantations that they were to become servants of devils, demons and evils spirts. While the Church have also been for millennia using exorcism, Mass readings, sprinkling of "holy water" beads, knotted rope and other sorts of sacraments and rituals including payers..
One good example and starting point in investigating these double standards can be found reasonably early in the Bible.
Its the story of Aaron and his magic rod and those staffs of the priests of Pharaoh that the Bible refer to as sorcerers, and magicians. the story can be found in Exodus.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
I remember perfectly well, Brother D.
When I challenged him on the same, the Reverend went into full rewrite scripture mode, claiming the biblical words "curse" meant 'murder' and "children" meant 'adults'.
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@n8nrgim
it is odd that you have such hang ups on the intricacies of the bible. either you are excessively worried about a fiction book, or you harbor some sympathies to it being something that is worthy of concerning yourself. at least, that's what it looks like to me. you might want to honestly reflect on that.
Never mind ME!
It is irrelevant what it is you think and believe about me. It is a genuine inquiry concerning a genuine Christian anomaly.
Try answering the questions posed.
So, can you answer any part of my four part inquiry?
Try parts: (1) & (2) Is it just an unfounded assertion of Christians and the Church that John the Baptist was a prophet? (2)Is there anything at all in scripture that suggest he was a Prophet?
Or simply do not respond at all. And leave the thread.
it is odd that you have such hang ups on the intricacies of the bible
I don't have any "hang up's". I research, question and study the bible. It is an extremely interesting book. You being the believing Christian, should have no problem answering my questions. Or the opportunity to debunk anything I have written.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
And further to my reply to you above#14, Brother D.
The Reverend Tradesecret also wrote:
After all, a footprint in the Woods is just a footprint
Like an empty tomb in a garden owned by one of Jesus' very rich friends is just an empty tomb.
The Reverend Tradesecret certainly likes to have his cake and eat it, doesn't he Brother. D.?
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@Best.Korea
But was he a prophet as Christians and the Chrisman Church preach and will have us believe?
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Is it just an unfounded assertion of Christians and the Church that John the Baptist was a prophet?
Is there anything at all in scripture that suggest he was a Prophet? . In fact, if the story of John is to be at all believed, even in part, we can read that John himself had flat out denied he was a Prophet. Why would he make his denial if there was no truth to it?
Didn't John the Baptist know he was a prophet?
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
MISS TRADESECRETS LONG-WINDED WORD SALAD ON PROOF OF SOMETHING: "I think I answered this above. In my view, if we don't know whether Big Foot exists or not, you could say the evidence was evidence consistent with Big Foot, presuming of course that the measures you have in place enable you to reach this conclusion reasonably. After all, a footprint in the Woods is just a footprint. It might also be correct to say it is evidence of Big Foot if, in fact, it was Big Foot who produced the footprint. Of course, even that depends entirely on your theory. Interestingly, enough, if there is a footprint in the woods, that was produced by a giant rabbit for instance, and assuming Big Foot does exist, would the fact that the footprint was made by a rabbit be evidence that Big Foot didn't exist, even if we know that he in fact did exist?"I am going to enter into Miss Tradesecrets lengthy dissertation the name of Jesus instead of Big Foot, and the Bible for obvious reasons:"I think I answered this above. In my view, if we don't know whether Jesus exists or not, you could say the evidence was evidence consistent with Jesus (Bible), presuming of course that the measures you have in place enable you to reach this conclusion reasonably. After all, the Bible is just the Bible. It might also be correct to say it is evidence of Jesus if, in fact, it was Jesus who produced the Bible. Of course, even that depends entirely on your theory. Interestingly, enough, if there is a Bible, that was produced by Jesus, and assuming Jesus does exist, would the fact that the Bible was made by a Jesus be evidence that Jesus didn't exist, even if we know that he in fact did exist?"
Such is the ease in which the Reverend Tradesecret's gobbledegook can be dismantled when s/he attempts to sound intelligent, Brother D.
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@IlDiavolo
It is interesting that when we read of the post Jesus writing about Satan - "the serpent of old"- and the Christian invented "Satan/devil" the Christian Church will immediately point to John's so called "vision" in Revelation as evidence for all three entities being one and the same entity which they are not for reasons set out above..
The chapter that the Church home in on for their evidence comes from of Revelation 20: 1-3. 8
Revelation 20:1-3 King James Version
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Well as far as John seeing into the future, he obviously didn't have to look that far, because it is more than obvious where he gained his super seer powers from. Is all one has to do is pick up a copy of the Book of Enoch which John had obviously had read for himself.
In the book of Enoch chapter 54 we can read of an angel called Azazel:
And I looked and turned to another part of the earth, and saw there a deep valley with burning 2 fire. And they brought the kings and the mighty, and began to cast them into this deep valley. 3 And there mine eyes saw how they made these their instruments, iron chains of immeasurable weight. And I asked the angel of peace who went with me, saying: ' For whom are these chains being prepared ? ' And he said unto me: ' These are being prepared for the hosts of Azazel, so that they may take them and cast them into the abyss of complete condemnation, and they shall cover their jaws with rough stones as the Lord of Spirits commanded. 6 And Michael, and Gabriel, and Raphael, and Phanuel shall take hold of them on that great day, and cast them on that day into the burning furnace, that the Lord of Spirits may take vengeance on them for their unrighteousness in becoming subject to Satan and leading astray those who dwell on the earth.' 7 And in those days shall punishment come from the Lord of Spirits, and he will open all the chambers of waters which are above the heavens, and of the fountains which are beneath the earth. 8 And all the waters shall be joined with the waters: that which is above the heavens is the masculine, and the water which is beneath the earth is the feminine. And they shall destroy all who dwell on the earth and those who dwell under the ends of the heaven. And when they have recognized their unrighteousness which they have wrought on the earth, then by these shall they perish.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
Therefore, don't go to far on your topic of wanting proof that something exists, where Jesus' existence is embarrassingly sparse to say the least after His death.
And less sparse before he is said to have died, Brother D.
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@n8nrgim
what if you saw foot prints in the woods, and claimed that was evidence of big foot? and, we'll assume big foot doesn't exist. is it fair to call that evidence to begin with, then, if big foot doesn't exist?
No. It is simply evidence of a foot print.
Like a tomb that was found empty, is only evidence that a tomb was found empty.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
Islam, the most disgusting and sickening religion known to mankind!
Indeed, especially for millions of muslims themselves.
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@n8nrgim
i didn't respond to your post cause it was so weak.
Which still makes my "weak argument" much stronger than your imagined and fallacious faith based argument for the presence of a "miracle" that you believe a long dead Jesus performed in the 21st century. .
AND you should take the time to read your link very slowly and carefully. SHE WASN'T BLIND in the first place she was temporarily blind. The headline is very misleading.
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@ponikshiy
We do not blame Germans for th holocaust. It was nazis.
I agree. The Nazis were a tiny minority among a German population of some 69 million in 1939, the majority were peaceful and probably didn't want a world war.
So we have a "tiny minority" responsible for the deaths of millions. Around 60 million.
Islam has well over 1.8 billion adherents. If just 1% were terrorist that is equal to 18 million.
So just in case you missed my point, I am saying that the majority is irrelevant.
Its the religion that is the problem. And I believe Muslims suffer more than anyone because of it.
Indeed this atrocity is squarely on the shoulders on the tiny minority -Hamas, who just happen to be Muslims that follow the Quran to the letter.
It is as they say 'it is our religion'.
"She is now a slave. The man who captured her is her master. He can do whatever he pleased with her . This is our religion. He is allowed to sell her at the cheapest price in the slave market, "
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@FLRW
List of atheists in science and technology
Speaking of lists
I asked @n8nrgim if he had one example after he said "i like to think Jesus still heals people with things that look like miraculous healing".#12
He offered this as evidence.. Woman cured of blindness after praying> https://jamesbishopblog.com/2017/02/10/doctors-confirm-womans-miracle-healing-from-irreversible-blindness-after-attending-church/
I responded here> #42
So speaking of lists, I could also offer a list of my own of people being cured of blindness where it wasn't prayed for or any intervention by Jesus , or Pastor, or Priest of Chaplain or even in a church setting with prayers.
And although some will call these incidents "miraculous" the causes for the cures ranged from, banging head on coffee table. Run over by a car. Falling from a ladder, being scared by a dog suddenly barking and many more. The most common is being admitted to hospital for a totally unelated operation for a totally unrelated complaint.
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@Best.Korea
Read about Jewish religion.
What do you recommend, specifically?
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Palestinians applied Quran when they invaded Israel!
"She is now a slave. The man who captured her is her master. He can do whatever he pleased with her . This is our religion. He is allowed to sell her at the cheapest price in the slave market, "
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