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@Shila
Jesus is a house keeper in heaven preparing rooms for guests.John 14:2 - In My Father's House are Many RoomsMy Father's house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?
And do you believe that, Shila?
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@Shila
Did Jesus ever travel outside of Israel?Egypt, if the bible is to be taken as literally true.Jesus ever travel to Egypt?This is recorded in the Gospel of Matthew (2:16-18). Jesus went to live in Egypt with his parents for at least three years. After his return to Nazareth, there is no clear evidence of Jesus ever returning to Egypt.
You asked and I told you. So my answer is , yes, Jesus according to the BIBLE , travelled outside of Israel.
there is no clear evidence of Jesus ever returning to Egypt.
Who knows where he went after surviving the crucifixion. Some say France others say Glastonbury in England along with his family with Joseph of Arimathea in tow and others say India,. A few scholars have him alive and well living in Rome?
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@Shila
Did Jesus ever travel outside of Israel?
Egypt, if the bible is to be taken as literally true.
Wishful thinking.
He was god so who knows? I don't give a shite either way.
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@Shila
Jesus never visited England.
Who knows? He was god and got about quite a bit.
And did those feet in ancient time
walk upon England's mountains green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
on England's pleasant pastures seen?
And did the countenance divine
shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
among those dark satanic mills?
Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!
Bring me my spear! O clouds, unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire!
I will not cease from mental fight,
nor shall my sword sleep in my hand,
till we have built Jerusalem
in England's green and pleasant land.
Who knows?
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@CatholicApologetics
You've really gotten me to use my brain today. Thank you for the challenge! When we read biblical passages like James 1:6 (“…the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea…”), Matthew 21:21, or Mark 11:23, it can seem like Scripture demands an unshakeable, doubt-free faith.Those above #6 are a lot of words to simply to tell us that the bible and those verses in particular do not mean what they say but only "seem to" tell one that their faith and belief should be unshakable and doubtless. One has to ask why even put them in such a way when they don't mean what they say?Because rhetorical style in Scripture frequently uses heightened language to drive home a point.Take a slow read of what you have written.I responded on post #11. Am I missing something?
Well you have agreed with me. The point was clearly driven home in those verses. In that they don't - as you have insisted - just "seem to demand belief that excludes all doubt."#3 They are driving home the point in telling its readers not to doubt, period.
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@Shila
And Jesus is the perfect example of trust without doubting.Matthew 26:39Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”This wasn't doubt. This was sheer fear of not wanting to go through with the so called "prophecy". I believe it was a plot that went horribly wrong.Jesus put faith and trust in Gods decision. Then regretted his decision.
But still abided by "his fathers will" against his own will. He was terrified of what was to come. If the scriptures are to be believed ?
Matthew 27:46About the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”This indeed was a show of more than just simple doubt. It was a complete loss of faith.Jesus regrets his decision.
Of course he did. The mission had failed, his god didn't come to rescue him and install him as king of the Jews to rule over a kingdom that was supposed to be everlasting as was the promised to his mother. If the scriptures are to be believed ?
But strange isn't it that the sad, sorry, cruel and violent death of her son wasn't revealed to his mother at the beginning don't you think? Instead, Mary went bounding off in complete joy and excitement to tell her cousin Elizabeth the "good news" .
This is why the story makes no sense whatsoever, Shila.
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@Shila
As of November 2024 the whole Bible has been translated into 756 languages, the New Testament has been translated into an additional 1,726 languages, and smaller portions of the Bible have been translated into 1,274 other languages according to Wycliffe Global Alliance.How many times!None of that absolutely matters.The different translations of the Bible led to the separation of church into thousands of denominations.
Yes. And none of it matters.
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@Shila
Take a slow read of what you have written.And compare to one who paid the price for trusting.
That wasn't the point I was making. I am waiting to see if I get a response from he that I directed it at.
However. As to what you have posted.
And Jesus is the perfect example of trust without doubting.Matthew 26:39Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”
This wasn't doubt. This was sheer fear of not wanting to go through with the so called "prophecy". I believe it was a plot that went horribly wrong.
Matthew 27:46About the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
This indeed was a show of more than just simple doubt. It was a complete loss of faith.
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@CatholicApologetics
You've really gotten me to use my brain today. Thank you for the challenge! When we read biblical passages like James 1:6 (“…the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea…”), Matthew 21:21, or Mark 11:23, it can seem like Scripture demands an unshakeable, doubt-free faith.Those above #6 are a lot of words to simply to tell us that the bible and those verses in particular do not mean what they say but only "seem to" tell one that their faith and belief should be unshakable and doubtless. One has to ask why even put them in such a way when they don't mean what they say?Because rhetorical style in Scripture frequently uses heightened language to drive home a point.
Take a slow read of what you have written.
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@Shila
But still we the laymen theologist and or the devout Christian that "doesn't know Koine Greek " are at the mercy of the Chaplain, the Pastor and the Priest that claims to understand and able to read and speak the bible in its "original" language.Christianity was promoted as a universal religion by the Romans. The translation into local languages was necessary.As of November 2024 the whole Bible has been translated into 756 languages, the New Testament has been translated into an additional 1,726 languages, and smaller portions of the Bible have been translated into 1,274 other languages according to Wycliffe Global Alliance.
How many times!
None of that absolutely matters.
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@CatholicApologetics
You've really gotten me to use my brain today. Thank you for the challenge! When we read biblical passages like James 1:6 (“…the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea…”), Matthew 21:21, or Mark 11:23, it can seem like Scripture demands an unshakeable, doubt-free faith.
Those above #6 are a lot of words to simply to tell us that the bible and those verses in particular do not mean what they say but only "seem to" tell one that their faith and belief should be unshakable and doubtless. One has to ask why even put them in such a way when they don't mean what they say?
Mother Teresa
Died doubting. I think she was right to doubt . Those dying children that hardly received any medical care - not even basic penicillin - suffered in their dying. She, if I remember correctly called these dying children " gods contraception" . She, being the anti contraception voice of the Catholic church added, "This is how we fight contraceptives and abortions in Calcutta."
And still you canonised her made her a saint.
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@CatholicApologetics
"Believe without any doubt"James 1:6Matthew 21:21Mark 11:23Mathew 14:31Mark 11:23Those verses raise a thought-provoking point, and I appreciate your attention to detail with Scripture. At first glance, verses like James 1:6 (“But ask in faith, never doubting...”), might seem to demand belief that excludes all doubt.
They don't just "seem to exclude all doubt" - they do!
Because that is what the scripture actually states:
James 1:6 New King James Version But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind.
Matthew 21:21,
Matthew 21:21 New King James Version: So Jesus answered and said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but also if you say to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ it will be done.
Mark 11:23
Mark 11:23 New King James Version " For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says.
However, these passages are better understood in the context of trust rather than the complete absence of questions or uncertainty.
You are trying to play with word here.
Yes ,to Trust without doubt. Didn't Peter fall in the water because he doubted ? Didn't Jesus ask to him " why did you doubt"? Doesn't Romans tell us its a sin to doubt? Luke tells not to allow doubt to enter our hearts. I could go on but fail to see the point in doing so only to say that the bible simply does not agree with your interpretation of what those verses clearly convey.
Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane show us that God is not threatened by honest doubt or questioning.
I doubt very much that the episode in Gethsemane was anything to do with doubting, although his last words on the cross clearly were. But that's for another time .
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@CatholicApologetics
Don’t you know… that belief is a doubt? [........]This subtle admission of “I could be wrong” is what keeps us humble, curious, and open to growth.
"Believe without any doubt"
James 1:6
Matthew 21:21
Mark 11:23
Mathew 14:31
Mark 11:23
It is through questioning—acknowledging the gap between what we know and what remains unknowndoubt can be the starting point for genuine conversations,I would like to dedicate today's post solely to answering questions.
And you believe all those words, do you? Because I my doubts you mean them.
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@Shila
What happened to Sunday School Day 3 ? Are you ill Reverend ?You must miss your Sunday school days. lol!
Well It was my concern for the Reverend. I thought it was ill. But he's assured me that Sunday is now Monday or possibly Tuesday. #69
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@Shila
Well you see, just with those two comments, you fallen right into the same self dug pit as those Christians that say to others that they "do not understand the bible because they do not speak, read or understand koine Greek".. Because by being in such a hurry to display their haughty imagined biblical knowledge and after painting themselves into a corner, they have condemned all bibles ever written in English to the rubbish bin. As you have with any Quran that has ever been written in English.Do you see my point, Shila?There is a big difference between the Bible and Quran.According to Islamic theology, the Qur'an is a revelation very specifically in Arabic, and so it should only be recited in Quranic Arabic. Translations into other languages are the work of humans and so, according to Muslims, no longer possess the uniquely sacred character of the Arabic original.
Exactly my point. Therefore one has to rely on the the word of the preacher and his interpretation. And any Quran written in English or any language other than Arabic may as well be consigned to the rubbish bin.
Translations of the BibleMany Christians over the centuries have felt that in order for the Great Commission to be completed successfully it is important that the Bible should be available to 'all nations,' in their own languages. This has meant that the Bible has been translated into many languages.
But still we the laymen theologist and or the devout Christian that "doesn't know Koine Greek " are at the mercy of the Chaplain, the Pastor and the Priest that claims to understand and able to read and speak the bible in its "original" language.
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@Shila
It can only be read in Arabic.#78
Is the Quran meant to be taken literally, Shila?Yes, it was Allah’s revelation to the prophet Mohammad..#86
Well you see, just with those two comments, you fallen right into the same self dug pit as those Christians that say to others that they "do not understand the bible because they do not speak, read or understand koine Greek".. Because by being in such a hurry to display their haughty imagined biblical knowledge and after painting themselves into a corner, they have condemned all bibles ever written in English to the rubbish bin. As you have with any Quran that has ever been written in English.
Do you see my point, Shila?
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@CatholicApologetics
What happened to Sunday School Day 3 ? Are you ill Reverend ?
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@Castin
Okay there haven't been enough new threads in here in too long
I did a few myself , with just a few takers.. and I haven't a clue why that was the case....... too challenging perhaps?
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@Castin
the Bible doesn't say a thing about abortion explicitly. It takes no direct stance on it. However, it does indirectly address the value of a fetus.
Well depending on which god your fighting for at the time , it appears that life is cheap to the biblical god. Surely this verse must have also included pregnant women.
1 Samuel 15:3
Now go and smite Amalek and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.’”
And then there is all the the unborn that went down in the flood and all the other disasters "sent from god" But no doubt we will hear that the rules are different for god.......because he's god.
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@Shila
It can only be read in Arabic.
Well right there is one of those factors that I spoke about above. #70 Where those ignorant and gullible and uneducated Christians are just the kind of people that the Chaplains, Pastors, and Priests rely on.
"only in Arabic", reminds of the Christian that tells me I know nothing about the bible because I do not understand Koin Greek when they have painted themselves into a corner and find themselves "stumped" .
I doubt very much that all 1.8 billion Muslims around the world speak Arabic never mind able to read it, do you?
Is the Quran meant to be taken literally, Shila?
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@IlDiavolo
Maybe you're interested in it.
I shall give that a look later, D. Thanks.
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@Shila
There is very little for Muslims to fudge.
Well any religion can be fudged and for the reasons I gave earlier.
Is the Quran meant to be taken literally, Shila?
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Its all faith based belief, Shila.
That is why the preachers and teachers can make up any old shite on the hoof and have gotten away with it so long Some grow to question it while others take a step back and start thinking for themselves. And some soak it all up for various reasons.
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@Shila
As I wrote earlier on another thread, I do not care if or not the my questions go answered or unanswered.I am happy simply to have asked the question openly, and that could, and sometimes does, cause others to think about it for themselves and sometimes pose to others themselves.#55I am surprised that preachers like Tradesecret and the Holy Spirit are not coming to his defence.
Well in the case of the former I am not at all surprised. Tradesecret is a lying bible dunce at the best of times.
The point you made about education is very valid. But unfortunately Christianity will be overshadowed by Islam which has almost caught up with Christianity in raw numbers.
You have a point. I wonder how long it will be before Muslims start to actually read the Quran for themselves and make their own minds up instead of simply taking the word of their preachers? Meanwhile, the world turns and people are slaughtered for no other reason than the beliefs of others that claim authority.
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@Shila
He doesn't have to answer my questions.It is just as embarrassing to be stumped by questions.
There may be something in that, Shila.
But what has to taken into serious consideration is that "Christians" whether the be Pastors, Priests or Chaplains have had over 2000 years to enable them to answers any question thrown their way. Especially in the light of the fact that new information concerning the Jesus period is being discovered and unearthed almost on a regular basis. And the obvious fact that we in the 21st century are far more educated than those living just 150years ago.
My opinion is that the authority and the power that they once enjoyed and are so used to, along with the ignorance of the people they so depended on and the fact of going unchallenged , is now slipping away and they were never educated in how to respond to those "embarrassing " questions that now regularly leaves them "stumped". So what are their responses?
The responses are usually to lie, (usually about their own status and authority)rewrite whole verses from scripture and redefine words or simply to lay down rules and caveats before even entertaining the idea of responding to a genuine question that poses the slightest challenge to their imagined authority.
As I wrote earlier on another thread, I do not care if or not the my questions go answered or unanswered.
I am happy simply to have asked the question openly, and that could, and sometimes does, cause others to think about it for themselves and sometimes pose to others themselves.#55
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@Shila
Well that deserves a thread all of its own. Be nice to see the apologist/s explain that.He would you rather ignored him than have to deal with your questions.
He doesn't have to answer my questions.
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@Shila
I agree. I could be wrong but it is my understanding that a Rabbi was required to be married and have children. But this may not have been compulsory. It may have been that he was a Celibate of the Qumran community?Isaiah 53 speaks of Jesus having offsprings.
Well that deserves a thread all of its own. Be nice to see the apologist/s explain that.
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@Shila
And Jesus surrounded himself with men.And women.There are a few Marys. Joanna. Susanna. Salome , the women of Bethany and quite a few un-named.But the Gospel authors and christian church have relegated them to the margins of the Jesus story affording them the minimal of appearances.Jesus remained unmarried which was very unusual for a Jew of his time.
I agree. I could be wrong but it is my understanding that a Rabbi was required to be married and have children. But this may not have been compulsory. It may have been that he was a Celibate of the Qumran community?
There is no mention of any sexual encounter with women.
No there isn't. But in some of the gnostics there is a reference to him often kissing Mary Magdalene on the lips and a few of his followers raising objections.
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@Shila
That is because God didn't have Jeffery Epstein working for him.And Jesus surrounded himself with men.
And women.
There are a few Marys. Joanna. Susanna. Salome , the women of Bethany and quite a few un-named.
But the Gospel authors and christian church have relegated them to the margins of the Jesus story affording them the minimal of appearances.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Hey did you guys get anything for Jesus for his birthday ?
Yeh.
A partridge in a pear tree.
Two turtle doves
Three French hens
Four calling bird
Five gold rings
Six geese laying
Seven swans swimming
Eight maids milking
Nine ladies dancing
Ten lords leaping
Eleven pipers pipin'
Twelve drummers drumming
I didn't even get a card from him Deb. Maybe it was because of those Lords mincing and leaping about to all them pipes and drums? Or he was jealous of them other lords?
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@Shila
What about the marriages made in heaven?An idiom . = happy marriage.There are no marriages in heaven.Matthew 19:6So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
This my well be down to the fact that god being a jealous god wants those that reach heaven to love only him..... like the angels in heaven are said to do.
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@IlDiavolo
"as above so below".
On Earth as it is in Heaven, D.
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@sadolite
Activists certainly don't give a shit about hurting anyone's feelings.
They never have. They claim any violence from there side is "justified" while any retaliation is met with one "ism" or " ist" that they can feed into the situation.
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@IlDiavolo
I think it's a matter of genetics. I see people craving for money, and when they get all the money they want, they go for the power,
And then they want to be "gods." and probably are seen as gods in some peoples eyes.
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@Shila
blocked message has gone.
No problem. There never was my end, Shila.
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@Shila
This is the message I get which I click on your profile.You have been blocked.
I see. I don't understand that to be honest. You are not blocked when I look at it. Still it hasn't stopped us exchanging comments. I have contracted mods. They say it all fine.
Funny now to think about it. I think I remember something similar happening a few years ago.
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@Shila
Not true! I have been blocked by you.
Well I am able to respond to your posts so I do not have you on block. If I remember correctly. I have only ever blocked two people that no longer frequent here , they were permanently banned from the site..
And I have no reason to block CatholicApologetics. So its him who's court the ball is in.
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@Shila
Why don’t you block him like you have done to others who challenged you?
Not blocked anyone . I have been blocked by others though.
I don't mind being challenged on my thoughts, opinions and ideas, Shila.
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@CatholicApologetics
You are exposed for what you really are. Just another cowardly fraud that refuses to be challenged.
The irony being that you were exposed by your own hand at your very first post.
It matters not to me. I am happy simply to have asked the question openly, and that could and sometimes does, cause others to think and sometimes pose to others themselves.
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@CatholicApologetics
As for your questions, I'm sensing some hostility. It seems to me that you have a bad attitude towards God and the Bible.
Well, thank you for proving my point. That because you only "sense hostility" in my genuine questions, you have simply filed my particular questions under "not genuine and are argumentative". When in truth, my questions should have been filed under - too challenging.
This is a forum a religion forum, it is not a religious forum for you to use only as a pulpit and for you to go unchallenged. << That is what your "Warning #1" was all about.
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@Shila
Yep, marriage is either a binding contract under State Law.Or not worth the paper it's written on.What about the marriages made in heaven?
An idiom . = happy marriage.
There are no marriages in heaven.
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@CatholicApologetics
I'm waiting to receive the debate invite. Let's make it three rounds and rated.
Quite happy here on the open forum, where I can challenge and be challenged on my thoughts, ideas, comments and opinions. thank you.
How about my questions. You keep ignoring them.
How do you know that animals do not have free will? Considering they appear to do just as they like and please?
Why didn't god allot them free will?
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@CatholicApologetics
You missed my questions. Were they not "genuine" enough in your opinion? Or have you deemed them to be "argumentative?
I've offered to debate which still stands
Here you go then.
How do you know that animals do not have free will? Considering they appear to do just as they like and please?
Why didn't god allot them free will?
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@Shila
Good point.Which for me raises another point, Shila.What was the original invocation in the days of John the Baptist?What invocation did John the Baptist use when baptised Christ?And what was the invocation that John the Baptist was using before Jesus even appeared on the scene?John the Baptist, who lived in the wilderness of Judea, was a prophet and a preacher who prepared people for Jesus, the Messiah.
So we are led to believe. Bit its not as straightforward as they will have us believe. John was a resident of Bethany near the Jordan. The reference to "the desert" also called the "wilderness" means Galilee.
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@Shila
@CatholicApologetics
In fact, some scholars point to the Pauline letters for evidence that early Christians were baptized in the name of Jesus, not the Trinity. The Catholic Encyclopedia, for example, states that "The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century."
Good point. Shila.
Which for me raises another point.
What was the original invocation in the days of John the Baptist?
What invocation did John the Baptist use when baptised Christ?
And what was the invocation that John the Baptist was using before Jesus even appeared on the scene?
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@CatholicApologetics
You're not forced to participate in these posts.
Oh I know that. But you have also said that you will not respond to argumentative comments and questions that you deem not to be "genuine questions".
I've offered to debate (which still stands if you're interested) but you've declined it.
Stop your shite, have a good look at what your own OP DICTATES that show exactly what you are all about hence your "WARNING". #1
I like to preface these posts with a quick warning: I am not perfect. Like all of us, I am flawed and in need of God’s grace. I am bound to make mistakes, so I ask for your patience as I learn throughout this journey. Yet, I would like to remind everybody that the imperfections I have do not take away from the truth I hope to convey. For example, if I misrepresent a Church teaching, it is a direct consequence of my actions, not the teaching itself being false. I encourage you to correct me charitably if I err and to pose genuine questions in the comments, but keep in mind these posts are not meant to debate and I may not respond to argumentative comments.#1
This was you simply covering your own arse as some those reading here can clearly see. What they cannot see, is that this cowardly practice was one that the bible dunce the Reverend Tradesecret often tried to implement on many of his threads once he'd been backed into one of the many theological corners that he was stupid enough to paint himself in.
The irony here is that you have decided that a question of ""Do animals have free will?" is a "genuine question" that is suitable for "debate". #1 FFS! And you actually responded with an answer using 537 words! You then summarised with another 247 words including closing remark.
This is where your answer should have started and stopped:
It was fkn sermon you absolute clown. A sermon that you do not wish to be challenged on.
I've offered to debate (which still stands
Here you go then.
How do you know that animals do not have free will? Considering they appear to do just as what they like and please?
Why didn't god allot them free will?
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@Best.Korea
what would be a "genuine question" concerning his AnswerI have no idea, but if he doesnt want to debate, then he doesnt want to debate.
I know. He simply wants to use this religion forum as a pulpit and go unchallenged.
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@CatholicApologetics
What do you consider a "genuine question"?If your posts "are no meant for debate" , what is the reason form them?Give me an example of an "argumentative comment"?I "genuine question" is a question that seems genuine. It's very plain and simple. If I think it's a genuine question, I will entertain it. These posts are meant to clarify Church teaching, not argue their validity.
Then it is exactly as I said it is , that only YOU will decide what is a genuine question and which is not. You are a joke. and a coward.
These posts are meant to clarify Church teaching, not argue their validity.
Your posts are nothing more than sermons. Sermons that you want to be left to go unchallenged.
And you ignored the remaining two of my "genuine questions".
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@Shila
Even Jesus complained about this limited choice options.Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”
Yet he supposed to be god too and should have known the script. He didn't want to go through with such a pointless maniacal plot. And still not a single soul has ever been able to tell my why it had to be a blood sacrifice ending in death!
And another "genuine" question I put to the OP CatholicApologetics at his Sunday School Day (1 Sermon 1) thread that he failed (ignored and refused) to answer:
HERE> Instead of any story about miraculous conception, virgins, exiles, , arrests , trial, torture, blood scourging, crowns of thorns, and crucifixion, and rising from once being dead why couldn't god simply have waved his hand and tell the people of all nations of all the world that their sins have been forgiven and that he has banished and scourged all sin and evil from the earth for eternity and never shall it return.?
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