Stephen

 Yet today - most scientists simply believe what they have read in a book -

and what their priests have told them to believe - lecturers - and they are told "don't question it".

 It is fact.  Me, I don't just believe whatever I read in a book or what my priests tell me.

Me, I don't just believe whatever I read in a book or what my priests tell me.

I like to question and to critique.

God Damn it, if Miss Tradesecret doesn't return for obvious reasons

OMG, should we worry about the #1 Bible fool of this Religion Forum, Miss Tradesecret, because it has been 11  days 

Yep. Conquerors and conquered and insurrection and a charismatic leader fucking up ordinary peoples lives.

Same old same old.

 but deluded bloke who though that he was

the son of a deity

The NT is shit according to a lot of people.

But are any of them  disciples or apostles or NT authors?

Disciples of Stephen the Atheist maybe.

The NT is shit according to a lot of people.

don't you think that this was  a cruel and deceitful promise to make to a mother while keeping from her the truth of her sons cruel torturous demise at such a young at age? 

The original question was what kind of mother Mary was to celebrate her son's inevitable suffering.

I answered this by showing how she didn't know.

It's not my fault Christianity is a terrible religion.

What is a "real Christian"?

Someone who follows the teachings of the Bible and Loves the Lord. 

You mean be nice and tolerant and inclusive as in this verse said to have been spoken by Jesus?

If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26

He is teaching to not hate. Not be "be inclusive". 

OMG, should we worry about the #1 Bible fool of this Religion Forum, Miss Tradesecret, because it has been 11 days 

What is a "real Christian"?

Someone who follows the teachings of the Bible and Loves the Lord. 

Hebrew and Aramaic had no word for homosexual.

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

I think the bold underline is clearly speaking of homosexuality and homosexuals, no matter how you decide to paint it. And YOUR GOD HATES BOTH!

Well surely your all caring and loving god wouldn't command the death penalty for two male best friends sharing a fkn tent, would he?

He hates the sin, not the person. 

Just to clarify. 

prejudice is a matter of personal disposition, you don’t really need to use the Bible to support bigotry anyway.

Except for the consensus among Biblical Scholars is that neither of these passages was referring to homosexuality as the term is used today

What is clear is that Christ never said a single word about homosexuality, not one word.  What He did do is tell us not to judge others, and he did that over and over again.

I'm not THAT old, but I would assume that yes, it existed before the 19th century.

Ok, so if it existed before the 19th century, we could safely assume, that people had a name for the practice of homosexual acts or being homosexual in general. It wasn't the word homosexual, so what was it?

SidewalkerISo you chose to be heterosexual, it could have gone either way.  Did the Bible help you decide?

YouFound_LxamLYes, I guess if I was attracted to men instead of women, then it could have gone either way. 

The bible leads me to the righteous path. I have always been heterosexual. To assume the Bible helped me decide, is also assuming that I was confused about my sexual preference, which I have never been confused about. 

SidewalkerIIf it wasn't a choice for you, then why do you think it's a choice for gay people?

SidewalkerI've read the Bible, please provide the verses that say it is a sin.  

YouFound_LxamLeviticus 18:22: "Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable."

SidewalkerThat's from the Old Testament, is there anything from the New Testament that provides this guidance to Christians.

Stephen wrote:  You keep telling us you know your bible very well.  Try reading Corinthians, Acts , 1 Timothy, Romans. Or will you forever need spoon feeding, like that other  thick bible dunce the Reverend Tradesecret who tells us often about his own sexual deviances and his own homosexual experimentations?

Here>>#104

,

None of the passages you are referring to refer to “Homosexuality” in the New Testament.

But this young maiden was chosen above all women on earth to conceive, bare and give birth to the son of a god!  How could god get so much wrong.?

He didn't fulfil the promises made to his mother Mary, the "blessed among all women" concerning this holy child. And he chose a neglectful  "blessed among women" to have his child  given that she failed even to notice him missing for a whole day and didn't recover him for four days.

 How do you know he was not talking about eternally blessed in a different way?

You're looking at it from a worldly standpoint.

SidewalkerI've read the Bible, please provide the verses that say it is a sin.  

YouFound_LxamLeviticus 18:22: "Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable."

SidewalkerThat's from the Old Testament, is there anything from the New Testament that provides this guidance to Christians.

If you hang around people from 3rd world countries, you would see they often seem to have very little regard for the safety of their children. Whenever I live near Hispanics they always are letting their 5 year old children play in the middle of the road with their only supervision being their 12 year old siblings. 

I am not sure why the mentality is different. Perhaps they generally just want to raise tougher children, maybe they really do care less about their children, but Mary from your description seems typical of your typical impoverished woman. 

Public-Choice  wrote: You will argue the Christian God does command Christians to vote against LGBTQ+ rights.

Stephen wrote:I will argue anything where and when ever I believe their is a genuine argument. But  I don't believe I have ever said - "god commands that Christians vote against LGBTQ+ rights".

What I have said is that the god of the bible finds homosexuals and homosexuality  an "abomination" and that  they should be "put to death".. You would know this if you had been following this thread..... or have read your bible.

Post #11: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8377/post-links/362318

You seemed to be agreeing with Geon's statement here, were you not?

@Gion wrote:  personally-maybe its just me idk, "disagreeing" with somethin' like sexuality or gender is usually equivalent with voting against their rights and such? for example, hurtin' gay people  by votin' against legalizing gay marriage or hurtin' trans people by votin' for trans genocide.#9

Stephen Wrote: Well isn't that what the god of Christians promotes, encourages and commands?  #11

that was going to be hunted down, betrayed and arrested and put on trial  and then beaten senseless and then nailed to a cross to die an agonising death? 

She didn't know that any of that was going to happen. She was told

“Don’t be afraid, Mary. You have found favor  with God.31

 You will become pregnant, give birth to a son, and name him Jesus.32

 He will be a great man and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his ancestor David.33

 Your son will be king of Jacob’s people forever, and his kingdom will never end.”(Luke 1:30-33)

That sounds pretty worthy of celebration to me.

You will argue the Christian God does command Christians to vote against LGBTQ+ rights.

Why do you disagree with them?

Because it goes against the bible.

My guess is that Mary and her local priest had consensual sex and they came up with the "God did it".

Who's your Daddy?

Irrelevant.

But the Father of Jesus was the acting Gabriel, a priest. It was he , it appears, that had raped the very young maiden Mary. Poor girl didn't know what was going on. She had no say in the matter.  But she  appears to have come to terms with the idea of having to be the unwilling receptor and vessel of the holy sperm of the priest Gabriel.

Maybe this is why she was such a poor mother. And maybe the answer to the question of why Mary was so excited knowing that the chid that she was forced to carry and give birth to  was going to  suffer a cruel torture and death for the sins of his father, Gabriel?

I hope that helps.

You need to whine at somebody who gives a crap.

Who's your Daddy?

 but now I'm thinking it's your mother

could it be that Miss Tradesecret could be YouFound_Lxam?!  Huh?  I will have to talk to Jesus tonight in prayer where He would obviously know if these two Bible fools are the same person!  Zeus forbid!

YouFound_Lxam, that wants to be Bible dumber than Miss Tradesecret,

Like I said above, "Christians"  maybe don't hate homosexuals, but your god -  the god of the Christian bible most certainly does and insists that they be put to death there and then.

I rest my case. 

The passage in question that you are having a hard time dealing with is where JESUS SPECIFICALLY STATES AS GOD: "If a man also lie with mankind, As he lieth with a woman, Both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death,; their blood shall be upon them.” (Leviticus 20:13). This passage unfortunately is to be followed even today where gays are to be murdered in their time of existence on earth because "their blood shall be upon them notion" cannot happen in heaven, understood Bible stupid TROLL?

This particular offence  is singled out by god to be an absolute abhorrence, and you are trying to play it down as just another sin among all other sins.  And this is devious of you. Or you simply do not understand what you are reading when reading the bible.

I definitely understand what I am reading.

Stop it!  To covet is a sin.  Because to covet can lead to worse things such as murder or in the case of the homosexual it can lead to sexual deviancy in the eyes of god for which the homosexual should be "put to death". 

The verse posted by the Brother proves this fact. HERE>>

Brother D. Thomas wrote: This is in the same context as committing ADULTERY in looking at a woman with TEMPTATION of lustful intent:  ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent>>>>>>>>>>> has already committed adultery with her in his heart."<<<<<<<<<<<< (Matthew 5:27-28)  

Just thinking about it is a sin. It is thought sin/crime.

Biblical definition of covet: "The Hebrew word translated "covet" is chamad (חמד) which is commonly translated into English as "covet", "lust", and "strong desire." The Hebrew Bible contains a number of warnings and examples of negative consequences for lusting or coveting."

Not just wanting, but wanting something with sinful intent, is a sin.

The only example of being put to death because of homosexuality is in Leviticus, which takes place in the Old Testament, and is the old law, before Jesus came to sacrifice himself for our sins. 

The Brother takes his scriptures serious- far too serious imo.  I have had my own run-ins with the Brother D over the years. But I can guarantee you this;

the Brother  won't deny what is written in the bible.

He won't attempt to re-write scripture.

He won't attempt to re define words and their meanings to  win an argument, and the Brother does not try to defend the indefensible with blatant lies, denials and contradictions. Nor will he play semantics, nearly  all have which you have displayed from the day you started posting on the religion forum.

Brother D. takes everything in the Bible literally,

even though half the things in the Bible are metaphorical.

I am a Christian, so I think I speak for most Christians (at least the real Christians) when I say that we don't hate the LGBTQ+ community. We just disagree with them.

God will be proven any time now.

You just cannot admit it or tell the truth  when caught cold can you?     It might well be human nature but to covet is  a sin. Stop trying to play down the seriousness of the  coveted "sin" in gods eyes.

To covet, is wanting, or desiring something else that someone else possesses. I'm not saying you can't want other things that other people have, but to want what they have specifically, is coveting and is a sin. 

One of the ten commandments' states," Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s house, nor his farm, nor his cattle, nor anything that is his!

It doesn't say covet by itself; it says covet your neighbors' specific belongings.

Brother D. Thomas wrote: This is in the same context as committing ADULTERY in looking at a woman with TEMPTATION of lustful intent:  ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent>>>>>>>>>>> has already committed adultery with her in his heart."<<<<<<<<<<<< (Matthew 5:27-28)  

And being homosexual is a sin.

We have already conceded, that it is not.

Which is what?

Damnation in hell, unless you truly ask the Lord to forgive you of your sins and ask him into your heart.

 Exactly Brother D. 

YouFound_Lxam wanted someone to engage him in a civil conversation/discussion. But then simply resorts to telling lies and making up excuses  just like Tradesecret always does when he has painted himself into a corner.

I suppose we can expect YouFound_Lxam to start redefining words for us anytime soon which is also another trait of the Reverend Tradsecret.

Brother D. is a troll, and that is why I have decided to stop replying to him. 

I will not debate against someone who has repeatedly insulted my person,

YouFound_Lxam God exists, and I Can Prove It.   https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8271-god-exists-and-i-can-prove-it?page=1

Therefore, read biblically about TEMPTATION: In being a homosexual man is a SIN in being TEMPTED to have ungodly sex with another man in the first place of which I had to "school you" upon before!

 This is in the same context as committing ADULTERY in looking at a woman with TEMPTATION of lustful intent:  ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent>>>>>>>>>>> has already committed adultery with her in his heart."<<<<<<<<<<<< (Matthew 5:27-28)  

  Get it Bible fool?  Obviously not, therefore you remain the #2 Bible fool upon this Religion Forum! LOL!

Having homosexual desires is not a sin.

To covet  these abominations is a sin.

It's human nature to have sinful desires. But it's only temptation. Giving into the temptation is the sin.

 

And what is the punishment for homosexuals that commit homosexual acts?

The same punishment for any other sin.... because its sin.

Having homosexual desires is not a sin.

But giving into those desires is what makes it a sin. 

Stop it!  The biblical facts are clear.  Playing semantics won't work. Your god hated homosexuality and homosexuals and ordered them put to death.

God doesn't hate anything.

He loves everyone, even the sinners. But he can't allow the sinners to enter his kingdom, because he is pure, and we are not.

And God doesn't send anyone to death, he saves them from death, because the minute we are born, we are full of sin and on the way to hell. He saves us from that fate, if we ask him into our hearts. 

Your just mad, that you can't frame God, for being the stereotypical thing that all non-believers think he is.

Being homosexual in of itself is not a sin. There are many men who just feel more attracted to men than women. It only becomes a sin, once you act upon those urges. 

I would think if anything this gives mark more credibility than the rest, particularly since his account mentions less miraculous events. 

 Tradesecrete wrote: “A ship in a harbor is safe, but it is not what ships are built for.” -John A. Shedd

@ Zedvictor4 I have Stephen  on block at the moment. A permanent block until either apologise for their stupidity.

Tradesecret wrote: I didn't want to do this. But I am going to put both you and Brother on permanent block. #389

Stephen wrote:  you do as you please. But do not be a coward by responding to anything I write where I cannot respond to you directly in return. It is an extremely cowardly practice carried out by a few here..... and  a habit that  I am confident that you will not be able to resist practicing yourself.