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Stephen

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God exists, and I Can Prove It.
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@Best.Korea
Is this your final proof

"Final proof"!!? 
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Christians don't hate the LGBTQ+ community
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@SkepticalOne
In fairness, the Bible didn't prohibit homosexuality until 1946 with the RSV translation. "Biblical" condemnation of LGBTQ is a modern invention. Its not hate because, you know, it's in 'the word of the Lord' (just ignore the fact that we put it there).Link
From the link -"mistranslation" .

These verses are perfectly clear as are the sentence for committing these "abominations" . Or are those death sentence also a mistranslation?

Leviticus 20:13  "If a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death: their blood shall be upon them"


and "all transvestites".

"The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God". Deuteronomy 22:5

I can only think that YouFound_Lxam want's to send us all back to the days of Sodom and Gomorrah,...........



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God exists, and I Can Prove It.

QESTION  1

Imagine I draw a circle on a white board. 
The space inside the circle represents all knowledge. 
It contains Physics, Chemistry, etc. 
Even knowledge that we are still trying to find, exists in this circle.

Now I ask you this question. If I gave you a pen, and asked you to fill in how much knowledge you think you have/know in the circle, how much of the circle would you fill in? 
Just answer me that.

QUESTION 2
Let me rephrase what the circle represents. The circle represents all knowledge. Everything that could ever be known about any subject. All the sciences, all the arts, etc. So, you guys put in a percent, that isn't fully 100%. So, you guys are admitting, that there are still things out there that you don't know. You just haven't discovered those things yet. 

Therefore, could God not exist, in a dimension, that you haven't discovered yet?

Answer: Yes.

No. the answer is, no. Now tell me why I have answered-NO ?
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Why and how did life come about?
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Can you believe that our resident #1 Bible stupid Miss Tradesecret would even make a thread like this in the first place?

Yes I can Brother.

There is no cure for stupid. And the narcissist  has no sense of their own stupidity.
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Why and how did life come about?
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@BrotherD.Thomas
MISS TRADESECRET QUOTE IN HER POST #66: "Hmmm, I don't think God is deceptive."

As we all know, you don't get the prize for being the #1 Bible stupid fool like Miss Tradesecret is within this Religion Forum, without her proving this fact from day to day!   Deceptive definition: tending or having power to cause someone to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid : tending or having power to DECEIVE.


In the following passages, our brutal serial killer Jesus, as God, was in FACT deceptive, therefore showing Miss Tradesecret ONCE AGAIN in being Bible stupid!

"For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie."  (2 Thessalonians 2:11)

"And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet." (Ezekiel 14:9)

"O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived." (Jeremiah 20:7)
 
Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people." (Jeremiah 4:10) 

You beat me to it, Brother D.
I guess we have to wait for Tradesecret's definitions of deceit , deceive & deceptive?


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Christians don't hate the LGBTQ+ community
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@BrotherD.Thomas
YouFound_Lxam, who is vying to be more Bible stupid than Miss Tradesecret,


YOUR ERRONEOUS BIBLE STUPID QUOTE AGAIN IN LEADING OFF ANOTHER EMBARRASSING THREAD OF YOURS: “Christians don't hate the LGBTQ+ community”

True Christians don’t hate the LGBTQ community because they don’t have time to do so, this is because they are ordered by Jesus as God to MURDER these sexuallly immoral of His Creation 

 And that,-as they say - is that!
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God exists, and I Can Prove It.
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@YouFound_Lxam
God only kicked them out of the Garden, because they disobeyed his one rule, and they had sin in their hearts. So, they could no longer be in his presence.

You really are shite at reading any scripture aren't you? You are as bad as Tradesecret.

Read this slowly and please at least try to see what is being said and why.

Genesis 3:20-24

New International Version


 Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living.
 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them.  And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”  So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.  After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

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Christians don't hate the LGBTQ+ community
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@Gion
 by votin' against legalizing gay marriage or hurtin' trans people by votin' for trans genocide.

Well isn't that what the god of Christians promotes, encourages and commands?
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God exists, and I Can Prove It.
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@GnosticChristianBishop
 Christians just run away,  after the usual insult are launched.

And pose questions of their own in response to your own questions. This,among many other devious ploys are simply attempts to guide and divert the direction of the argument.
Especially after they have painted themselves into a theological corner with an opening statement and are far too thick and dense to realise it.
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The Story of the "certain" Witnesses?
@ Tradsecret.

So we reach Number12 on your list, Tradesecret.

12. Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him. #99
The story of this disciple is well know to every man, woman a child that has ever had the story read to them or have been taught to read and memorise the bible from a very early age. The BIBLE says he was thief,, a son of a zealot and he betrayed of his Rabbi Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. He himself was also a zealot from Galilee.
We have already touched on Judas earlier so there isn’t a lot to add.
So;
It is also common knowledge to any reader of the BIBLE that his so called surname Iscariot is a slight mistranslation and should read Sicarii. The Sicarii were assassin Zealots and named after the dagger that they used for assassinations and some simply called them “dagger-men”. So, it appears then that it was clearly a case of -like father like son - as Judas’s father, Simon, the BIBLE states, is a Zealot.
In the BIBLE Jesus himself calls Judas Sicarii a devil / Satan;

John 6:70-71 “ Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”  (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.”).

The remainder of the story of this betraying Zealot assassin is that he apparently regrets what he has done and returns the 30 Pieces of silver to the chief priests but this makes no sense whatsoever. Lets read it:
Matthew 27:1-3  Early in the morning, all the chief priests and the elders of the people made their plans how to have Jesus executed. So they bound him, led him away and handed him over to Pilate the governor.
When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders”.
WHY!!? has to be the big question. Here Judas the Zealot is acting like he didn’t expect this to be the out come? So what was he expecting to happen to Jesus once he betrayed him? This is not to mention the dire warning Jesus gave to any would-be betrayer that may be contemplating stabbing him I the back;
“The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.” Matthew 26:20-26 New International Version
This didn’t seem to faze Judas at all, even after Jesus had made Judas aware that he was onto him Judas simply responded in the manner that any deceitful liar would;

“Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, “Surely you don’t mean me, Rabbi?” Jesus answered,“You have said so.” Matthew 26:20-26 New International Version
Yet not a single one of the other 11 disciples sitting around the table stopped eating and rose in protest, or anger, and, what is more, none of these holy men didn’t seem to recognise that Satan was even in the room and had possessed Judas and these will be the same disciples that had been given powers to cast out all demons!
All this besides the fact that the life and death of Jesus was, by all accounts, predestined. So why was Judas made the bad guy by the church, Tradesecret? Was Judas not doing the lords work to the letter “as it is written”?
The point here as you should have worked out by now (but I doubt that you have) was to show you that Jesus was most certainly not surrounding himself with lovely upstanding Simple Simons that were happy just fishing all day long and providing for their families and that may have had a few minor discretions or “inherited sin” to their names.
He had surrounding himself with a bunch of murderous deceiving backstabber's that were Zealous for the reinstatement of the law of their God and a true King of the line of David and at any cost. And to show you that the Jesus story is a repeat of OT stories about a son returning from exile to claim that which he believed or was led to believe to be his rightful heritage- the throne of Jerusalem because “his time was near”.

So with all of these men that are Zealous for the Law in place what does Jesus do next? Because he is not going to gain his throne with just a few simple Simon fishermen against the full might of Rome, is he, Tradeseceret? That would take a “miracle”, wouldn’t it?

There is one more question that should be seriously considered. Jesus called Simon Peter and Judas Sicarii two of his inner circle of disciples, “Satan”. Which of these Satan’s did Jesus meet with when he retreated to the “wilderness”  to make a deal in the desert after his baptism, where it appears that all offers were refused and no compromise was reached.?

Before we proceed it is only right that we look at their leader; Jesus himself and his role in the myth that Christians have wrapped him in, and why he and John the Baptist became rivals.

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Christians don't hate the LGBTQ+ community
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@Best.Korea
Yes after 2000 years of killing gays, lets pretend we dont hate them anymore.

 And pretend god didn't mean homosexuals.
Leviticus 20:13  "If a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death: their blood shall be upon them"


and "all transvestites".

"The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God".Deuteronomy 22:5

I can only think that YouFound_Lxam want's to send us all back to the days of Sodom and Gomorrah,........... and we know what happened there don't we.


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Christians don't hate the LGBTQ+ community
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@YouFound_Lxam
I am a Christian, so I think I speak for most Christians (at least the real Christians) when I say that we don't hate the LGBTQ+ community.

What is a "real Christian"?

As Christians, we base all of our teachings on the Bible. So, using the Bible, we can argue, that true Christians who believe and read God's word do not hate the LGBTQ+ community.

All very hypocritical then.

I can only think that this must be a distraction thread. Because what you have written above is simply not true - according to you own scriptures. Have you never read and understood the meaning of the word - Abomination?

abomination
/əˌbɒmɪˈneɪʃn/
Learn to pronounce

noun

  1. a thing that causes disgust or loathing.
  2. a feeling of hatred.
  3. atrocity
  4. disgrace
  5. horror
  6. obscenity
  7. outrage
  8. curse
  9. torment
  10. evil
  11. crime
  12. monstrosity
  13. violation

Leviticus 20:13  "If a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death: their blood shall be upon them". <<<< god's words.

What is it you have written above again?  >> "Christians who believe and read God's word do not hate the LGBTQ+ community."

Well your god certainly "hates" homosexuality and homosexuals and makes no excuse for it either. He even presses home his point too, saying;


"Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you".Deuteronomy 4:2

Or is it as I have always said often on this forum? That this is a case  of Christians adopting a god from an ancient time an ancient place and an ancient culture that they didn't know or even understand.

You Christians made this cross for your own backs and you have to learn to live with it.


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Why and how did life come about?
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@zedvictor4
zedvictor4 wrote;

@ Tradesecrete: And you've largely ignored answers to the OP.

Which might suggest that you are being deceptive.


Yep, true to form. You did't expect any other kind of responses, did you Vic?

He hasn't even gone up the gear column with the deceit he is capable of , he's only in first.
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God exists, and I Can Prove It.
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@FLRW

OK, it's time to vote. Do you think YF_L  proved that God exists?

NO

. And this thread was finished right at the beginning of Page 2 if not before when he admitted this to Sidewalker


YouFound_Lxam wrote: You have proven the argument I am making impossible with the evidence that I have. But I am sure with time and resources I will be able to prove gods' existence". 
That should have been the end of it.

But then the true intent of his thread emerged as I predicted  when I wrote as early as post #13

Stephen wrote:  I thought you were going to prove god exists?. Is all you have done is make statements , made further claims and turned to asking me questions.

It is a backdoor way for you to avoid supporting your own claims. 

And is all you have done further is attempt to put the burden on proof  for the existence of a god onto someone else.
Tradesecret has attempted the same deceitful ploy using the same sly tactic many times.  In fact, Tradesecret is attempting this shite again as we speak on this thread here>>>> https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8366-why-and-how-did-life-come-about?page=1&post_number=1

when I wrote:
Stephen wrote: " It's another way asking a question about religion and god disguised as a evolution question and another way of saying atheist have the burden of proof (that god doesn't exist). It is a case of ask a question, wait for a  response, and then tell respondent to prove his case by supporting his response with facts, if he can't there must be a god. And where all facts will be denied and dismissed with the wave of the hand".
Which is happening exactly as I predicted it would.



YouFound_Lxam  has gone from "I can prove god exists" to making many claims about the bible that he has proven himself to know nothing about.
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God exists, and I Can Prove It.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Yahweh is portrayed as quite evil in scriptures and even admits to it in Job;2,3.
Well, I have actually learned this story, and the story is about God testing Job, using the Devil. He has the Devil go in and take everything away from Job, but in the end, Job stays faithful to God, showing God that Job is a very faithful servant, and worthy being an evangelist.

Well you didn't learn it very well did you?



Who in their right moral mind would see such a character as a good God?
God is good.
Opinion. The god of the OT is a vile , jealous god of war. The OT is a history of the Hebrews/Israelites. It is an ancient book of war and conquest fought by men on gods command. 








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God exists, and I Can Prove It.
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@YouFound_Lxam
 and would like to share why I believe it

Nice. Why don't you start a new thread titled - Why I believe in the Bible &Jesus.
I will be more than happy to engage you in a civil conversation/discussion.
I look forward to it.😊


Thank you. Maybe I will one of these days.
What's stopping you starting it now?

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Why and how did life come about?
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@TWS1405_2
There are more investigative journalists and scholars who have put forth the same theory. Far more plausible than the fictional deity written of in the Bible.
 
You might enjoy these, TW.

Zecharia Sitchin

When Time Began

The Stairway to Heaven

The End of Days

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Why and how did life come about?
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@Sidewalker
Tradesecrte wrote:

(1) I will await you definitions to see whether they match or not. 

(2) It really is going to depend upon how broad or narrow your provided definition of the theory of evolution is going to be.

(3) for the theory of definition and then we can go from there.

(4 )Let's see what your definitions are and then perhaps we might be able to discuss this properly. 

(6) Again we are going to have to see how broad or narrow your definition of evolution is.

(7) for the theory of definition and then we can go from there.

(8) But let's start by you - defining and providing the basis of Christianity
8 responses in one post and not a single attempt to address a single valid point  that you have put forward in your in depth and detailed post#32 , Sidewalker. And all asking you the same thing. -ie  asking for proof.

I will remind you, if I may?  ,Tradesecret doesn't accept definitions "from some dictionary"  or  "from some obscure website from the other side of the world".

It is as I predicted here above.  











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Why and how did life come about?
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@zedvictor4
And how bleak do winters get in Bethlehem?

Well the temperatures would drop rapid  after sundown, Vic.  below freezing.  It was December ya know. And they weren't in town they were out on the hills "snuggling".
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Why and how did life come about?
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@zedvictor4
Give or take 3978 according to Bro D.

Ah, well. The Brother is including Jesus ' time before he was Jesus.

I thought you was talking about from the time of shepherds had a light shined on them in the bleak mid winter while they was freezing to death and snuggled up (that's what it was called then) with their woolly four legged charges to keep warm an all that.
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God exists, and I Can Prove It.
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@YouFound_Lxam
 and would like to share why I believe it

Nice. Why don't you start a new thread titled - Why I believe in the Bible &Jesus.
I will be more than happy to engage you in a civil conversation/discussion.
I look forward to it.😊


Thank you. Maybe I will one of these days.
What's stopping you starting it now?


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Why and how did life come about?
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@zedvictor4
Wasn't Jesus born 2022 years ago on Christmas day in a manger?

 Give or take 2022 years, Vic , lad.

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The Torah Is "shit" According to Some NT Authors
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Do you remember this from above Deb?

Deb Wrote; Any day now God could start on doing another book.  

 Stephen wrote: They  have already done that Deb.

The new gods on the block are the Corporations and Western governments are their new priests. 
 At one time when there was a natural disaster the Priests used to prey on the ignorant and uneducated, telling them they had upset "the lord their god through their sinning" so had to cough up more of their hard earned take home pay, live stock etc etc. It was a  tax, Deb.

 Now they cannot get away with blaming us for upsetting "the Lord through sinning" any longer, but they will still blame us for causing these natural disasters and will now charge us different taxes,  such carbon tax because we have caused - according to them- climate change.  Do you see the bullshit cycle of this, Deb?

 They are purposely conflating a natural cyclical occurrence with mans sins - pollution.

Climate change come about simply because of the movement around the sun. It is an elliptical orbit taking the earth further away - ice age  and then closer - the big thaw -  every 1,116. The Sumerians knew about this, Deb and the priests, once they had usurped all the kings used this natural occurrence to take the piss out of the illiterate, ignorant superstitious and rob them blind. Just as the are doing today.


The new gods have spoken Deb

BREAKING: European Union Reaches Agreement to Force Everyone in EU Countries to Pay for CO2 Emissions – First Step of Personal Carbon Credit System.
The Gateway Pundit previously reported that more British cities promoted a new scheme to ban privately-owned vehicles into certain areas without permits to reduce traffic and “help tackle climate change,” protesters called it “climate lockdown.”



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Why and how did life come about?
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Can you believe the two Bible fools Miss Tradesecret and YouFound_Lxam, as if they were the same person in being so Bible dumbfounded!  


I am interested in seeing how he copes with those here that he has clearly underestimated and do know what they are talking about in this particular field.
. But I predict another dereliction.
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Why and how did life come about?
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@BrotherD.Thomas
When does Miss Tradesecret’s Bible stupidity ever stop?

Has it ever sopped? 
After I said this was another backdoor ploy to heap the Burden of Proof onto the atheist #18 &#28 and questioned if this topic was in the correct sub-forum. #10  Tradesecret has had to admit that  this was a "religious " topic because she says;

Tradesecret wrote: "I was coming at this from a religious perspective. I anticipate that I will engage with these in due course".#30
BS
Although she says in her OP ;
Tradsecret wrote:   
 [A]  "I am not asking about why or how non-life came into being  - we can assume that for the sake of the discussion.
[B]  I am asking about the evolution from non-life to life.  " 

No mention there about god the creator of all things. Jesus or Religion.

 I  suggested the same on this thread by YouFound_Lxam here> https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8271-god-exists-and-i-can-prove-it?page=1&post_number=13

Do you remember what I said here Brother D? 

"clones"

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Why and how did life come about?
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@Sidewalker
This concept of a deceptive God is very hard to accept, it strikes me as a much greater challenge to Christianity than any damage the concept of evolution could ever hope to do.

 Yep. He is an absolute diamond for shooting himself in the foot. I am amazed he has any toes left.
Good post, bye the way.
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The Story of the "certain" Witnesses?
@Tradesecret


So who do we have left on your list, Tradesecret?

Lets go with the Thomas,

7.Thomas and All the gospels and Acts but is also called Didymus in John.
12.Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.#99

Thomas.
Here again we know very little about this disciple only that Thomas is mentioned in the list of disciples and is famous for “doubting” Jesus; which reminds us of Simon the Leper/ Pharisee doubting that Jesus was the “messiah”. Thomas is responsible for speaking what has to be one of the most enigmatic lines in the New Testament bible. He is assumed to be a fisherman and he is from the wilderness of Galilee, where else?
The bible also calls him “Didymos” said to mean “twin”, so in reality this disciple doesn’t have an actual name, Why? Who is he “twin” to?
The only thing or person in all of the bible that Thomas can be twined with is that Thomas doubted Jesus as did Simon the Pharisee/ leper.

Doubting Pharisee /Leper: When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, “If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is—that she is a sinner.” Luke 7:39

Doubting Thomas: “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands, put my finger into them, and put my hand into his side, I’ll never believe!” John 20:24

But there again the BIBLE records all of the disciples doubting at one point or another, doesn’t it Tradesecret? So it cannot be that Thomas is called “twin” for this reason, surely?

Of course, seeing that you insist on sticking with the BIBLICAL facts only, we cannot know anything else about him, but the apocrypha tells us much more.
With that said, it is incredible if not astounding that Thomas the “twin” is best known only for doubting  that Jesus had been resurrected from the “dead” in the first place, isn’t it Tradesecret?

I mean, hadn’t this been the same Thomas that had witnessed with his own eyes Jesus himself had “resurrected Lazarus from the dead” after rotting and stinking in a tomb for four days? Not to mention all those other “miracles” he must have witnessed? Why ever did Thomas demand physical proof that his lord had come back to life after rotting and stinking in a private tomb for only three days!?
Still, what ever his real identity he was yet another disciple recruited from desert wilderness of Galilee, the land of the cut-throat assassins of the zealots

Which leaves us will Judas number12 on your list.


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Why and how did life come about?
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@Best.Korea
@Best.Korea,

So naturally, religious people hope to confuse an atheist by making him feel like he has to prove that God doesnt exist.

It is the theist that always seem to be confused about whose shoulders the burden of proof lays. It is the universally accepted fact that the B of P lays with he that brings the claim- accept in the small mind of the theist. 
Like I have already pointed out, this thread is nothing more than a very poor backdoor ploy to put the B of P onto the shoulders of the atheist by framing the question under the guise of  the very old evolutionary question of where did it all come from and how? And posed by a narcissist that thinks he is way above the intelligence of others here.

I am more interested in seeing how he copes with those he has clearly underestimated.

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Why and how did life come about?

Is this another one of those
"if I dont know the answer, then God is the answer"?


 I do hope I am wrong. 

But yes. It's another way asking a question about religion and god disguised as a evolution question and another way of saying atheist have the burden of proof (that god doesn't exist). It is a case of ask a question, wait for a  respond, and then tell respondent to prove his case by supporting his response with facts, if he can't there must be a god. And where all facts will be denied and dismissed with the wave of the hand.



Just as this thread turned out to be.
 And the author didn't prove his claims on that thread  either.
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Why and how did life come about?
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@Barney


Tradsecret wrote:   

 [A]  I am not asking about why or how non-life came into being  - we can assume that for the sake of the discussion.


[B]  I am asking about the evolution from non-life to life.   
Same thing, surely ? 



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Why and how did life come about?
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@Intelligence_06
The title of this topic is;

"Why and how did life come about?"

I think this topic is in the wrong sub forum.

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Good music
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@zedvictor4
If you like Dire Straits/Mark Knopfler, I doubt you'll be disappointed with Joey.
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Good music
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@zedvictor4
Anything by Joe Bonamassa
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What Was Special About These 3 "Dead" People?
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@zedvictor4
And to you too.  


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What Was Special About These 3 "Dead" People?
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@zedvictor4
C. They were just having a right laugh.

I think you may be onto something with C, Vic. 

Seriously.

12 years old "dead" daughter .  It appears to me  that at the house of the (wayward)"dead" girl there was some sort of party going on while dad and mum were out, - as kids do. The music was blaring and loud coming from the house, with screams and wailing , the neighbourhood was complaining  and her dad just couldn't control her any more.

Do you think I am kiddin' Vic?

Mark actually says she is not dead but there is some commotion going on wailing and screaming, as girls do.

Matthew says,  Jesus went into the there was noisy crowd of people playing pipes,  and also says  girl is not dead but asleep.(couldn't take her booze)
 Another bible says there were mistrals and all sorts of carry on. Jesus kicked them all out telling them the party's over. etc etc

So maybe the girl was not "dead" but just wayward and out of hand.... and drunk.

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What Was Special About These 3 "Dead" People?
The New Testament tells us that in the time of his ministry Jesus is said to have raised only three people from the "dead".  The child mortality rate must have been high in 1st century Palestine so why only three? 

If we are to take the gospels in order as presented in the New Testament, the first recorded instance come in the gospel of Mark 5:35-43 NIV

In this version  a Pharisee named Jairus in Galilee a synagogue leader's daughter has "died" and said to be only 12 years old. Jesus is said to have simply  took her hand , told her to "get up" and she was alive again.

In Luke's gospel it is a Galilean widow  living in Nain. Her son that was ready for burial. Jesus simply told  him to "get up" too and he was alive again. Luke 7:11-15.

Then in John's gospel we are told of Lazarus of Bethany in Galilee and a friend of Jesus had died. He was simply told by Jesus to "come out" of his tomb after being "dead" for 4 days. John 11:1-44

So what was so special (if anything) about these three particular "corpses" that they were important  to be raised from the"dead"?









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The Story of the "certain" Witnesses?
@ Tradesecret

So we are down to four on your list of disciples, Tradsecret.#99
Thomas and All the gospels and Acts but is also called Didymus in John.
Matthew the tax collector; also known as Levi in Mark and Luke, not mentioned in John and Matthew in Acts.
James the son of Alphaeus, and In all the gospels - and Acts except John
Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.

Lets go with Matthew also known as Levi?

Jesus had returned to his home town in Galilee and after doing a bit of “healing” he Just happened on Matthew “sitting at the receipt of custom” also known as the “the tax collector’s booth” and said “follow me”, and Matthew does so and then Jesus and some of the other disciples sit down and they all have dinner at the home of Matthew. Matthew 9:1-21.
Matthew by all accounts was a “tax collector”, while other gospels use the term “publican”. It simply means he worked for the governing authorities which included Rome, Herod and the Temple authorities. His name is also said to mean “a gift from god”! And that is about all we have of this disciple under the name of Matthew.

Matthew also known as Levi . The reason bible scholars believe Matthew and Levi are one and the same person is because just like the story of Simon the leper/ Pharisee at the house of the anointing #152 , there are two parallel stories about a tax collector in both,
Mark 2:14;
“As he walked along, he saw Levi son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,” Jesus told him, and Levi got up and followed him.”
And Luke 5:27.
“After this, Jesus went out and saw a tax collector by the name of Levi sitting at his tax booth.“Follow me,”Jesus said to him”.
Sounds a reasonable assumption to me. How about you, Tradesecrete?

And, whereas one gospel writer omits something another will fill in as you rightly tell us here> no two stories are exactly the same, Tradesecret wrote: “Each of the four gospels are telling the same story, Not exactly of course. But they are all presenting it quite different ways.” #139 .

 
And in this case we see that Mark has added the name of Levi's father and his name we are told is Alphaeus.

The name Levi means “attached” or “joined”. But joined to what or whom? Well given the circumstances of him being a Tax collector with a name like Levi he may well have been a Pharisee collecting taxes for the temple. And Levi-te is the name given to the line of priests since Moses. They were also known as “warrior priests”.
What about the father of this disciple Matthew / Levi given to us by Marks gospel; Alphaeus?
Do you remember me saying this to you, Tradsecrete?

Stephen wrote: “And you should have cross checked your list of the 12 disciples too. << that will be something else that will be coming come back to bite you”.

I said this to you because I knew you hadn’t realised that yet another disciple on your list has the same father. And this is why I asked you (three times) do you want to add anything at all to your list here> #100 …. and that other disciple is number 9 on your list;
Tradesecret wrote:“9.James the son of Alphaeus, and In all the gospels - and Acts except John#99 “
Yes, Tradesecret, it appears that Matthew also known as Levi and James are brothers with the same father? Or is this just another coincidence? Or is it as I pointed out to you above that the meaning of the name Levi means “attached” or “joined” to- James?
What does the name Alpheus actually mean? Well it varies on who one chooses to read and believe. But it boil down to “changing or successor”. What if it means both; changing the successor?
And the name James, what does that mean? We know from Mark 3:17 that Jesus himself called James, brother of Andrew, Boanerges a “son of thunder”. And as already mentioned above we also know that the name James literally means "supplanter” and “to supersede another especially by force or treachery". #157 This, as you may well realise with all of that brilliant work you do studying ancient languages and translating them into English bring us to Boanerges, which is a Greek phrase that translates to English as, “sons of thunder.” The Greek is a slight mistranslation from the Hebrew phrase, bənē reghesh, which translates into English as “sons of rage”…. They are all Galileans, including the father, Alphaeus and are all Zealots if there names and or appellations are anything to go by.

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@YouFound_Lxam
 and would like to share why I believe it

Nice. Why don't you start a new thread titled - Why I believe in the Bible &Jesus.
I will be more than happy to engage you in a civil conversation/discussion.
I look forward to it.😊


Thank you. Maybe I will one of these days.


What's the hold up?
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@YouFound_Lxam
 and would like to share why I believe it

Nice. Why don't you start a new thread titled - Why I believe in the Bible &Jesus.
I will be more than happy to engage you in a civil conversation/discussion.
I look forward to it.😊
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@YouFound_Lxam
I just feel like doing it.
Why?
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@YouFound_Lxam

Well so much for:
There is no reason for me to respond on this thread at all from this point on.   
There isn't any reason to respond to your claim.


It's always so funny to me when your opponent stops arguing and starts insulting instead.

Yes. I have had  quite a lot of that myself, real vile and disgusting things and all from Christians/believers that claim to have been "called by god" and tell me that "god personally have gave them wisdom" too. 
You'll get used to it. 

What is your own denomination?

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@BrotherD.Thomas
Now when Miss Tradesecret posts, we have FREE REIGN in showing her Bible stupidity without her responding .


Brother. I am telling you now. Tradesecret's narcissistic personality, his ego , arrogance and air of superiority will simply not allow him to  resist responding. You can bet your last $  that Tradesecret will come up with his own definition and meaning to the words "permanent block", that he speaks of here> #390
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@YouFound_Lxam
I have already laid down my evidence, and it's up to you to believe it or not.

 Ok so that should be the end of it. Most  People here on your thread do not accept your "evidence", myself included.  Your "evidence" has been rejected and debunked.
So what now?
Will you simply keep going in circles where you repeat the same thing over and over, in the belief  that you will get a different outcome?

You have shown often that you don't even know your scriptures and this is only your maiden thread.
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@YouFound_Lxam
This forum is supposed to be about proving the existence of God, and to have a rational discussion about it, without insulting.

This is  what happens when you make a claim that you cannot support. You may believe that you can prove it and you may believe that you have factual evidence that proves your claim, but it has been shown to you over and over by quite a few members now that what you believe to be evidence is nothing of  the sort.

 You would be better off requesting moderation to lock this thread, because it became circular pages ago  and has drifted into argument that has shown you to be extremely lacking in biblical education and it has now become back and forth about who knows what and who doesn't about the bible. And the Brother beat you hands down on that score pages ago too.       
There is no reason for me to respond on this thread at all from this point on.   

       Good luck.      
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Debate Joke
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@zedvictor4
Old farmer runs into financial difficulty and has all his machinery repossessed. He writes to his son in prison worried that he cannot dig the field by hand all  by himself in time for sowing. His son writes back saying ' dad, whatever you do, do not dig field three it is where I buried all the gold and cash from the robbery'.
The warden read the letter and tips off the police and they go dig up the field. 
The son writes to his dad saying, ' dad,  now is the time to sow the carrots and potato seeds, it the best I can do from here.
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@Tradesecret.

Lets go for; number 6 on your list -

6.Bartholomew;  All the gospels and Acts except John where his name is Nathaniel.#99


Bartholomew . In the entire New Testament this disciple only appears in the four lists of the twelve apostles (Matthew 10:2–4, Mark 3:16–19, Luke 6:14–16, Acts 1:1–13). And under this name he is not mentioned at all in John’s Gospel.
But what we do have is the name of another disciple by the name of Nathanael but does not appear in the other three synoptic gospels.;
John 21:1-2 Afterward Jesus appeared again to his disciples, by the Sea of Galilee. It happened this way: Simon Peter, Thomas (also known as Didymus), Nathanael, from Cana in Galilee, the sons of Zebedee, and two other disciples were together.
So, Tradseceret. unless you are going to tell that Jesus had 13 disciples then it appears that Bartholomew and Nathanael are one and the same person, which by now we know is getting to be quite common for these disciples of Jesus’ to have multiple names.
What is most interesting about Bartholomew/ Nathanael is that this disciple appears to have been introduced to Jesus via another disciple that goes by the name of Philip and number 5 on your list. #99
Read carefully, you may like this, Tradesecrete.


“The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me”. ( And just like that, he does).
Now Philip was of Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter.
Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth?”

  Well considering that Nazareth was supposed to be a place in Galilee, the bandit country run by the Zealots, it appears that your disciple Bartholomew/ Nathanael understands perfectly the violent nature of his fellow Galileans. The name Nathanael according to BIBLE scholars means – “a gift from god”.
But what about the name Philip, that other disciple on your list that introduced this “gift from god” Nathanial to the lord? His name is very revealing when it is studied. Its meaning ranges from, “WARLIKE” a “lover of horses” and get this one, “He Who Leans On His Military Complex”! And a Galilean too.
What is said in scripture about Philip? Well nothing much except he appears to be some kind of body guard to the “messiah” and acting here as a gate keeper: John 12:20-25. So apart from being listed with the other 11 and being from Galilee, that is all we get about Philip from the four gospels.

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@Tradesecret


why would you bring such a quote from another website that within the context of an entire conversation which incidentally you have not provided - and suggest that it has anything to do with me and my own values?

Simply because this is not the only time that you have spoken about sexually experimenting is it Reverend?  In fact there was a time when on your pulpit here you couldn't shut up about the perverted side of your own life, which when added to  the post in question simply supports your own previous statements,..... written by you .....about yourself.


but the fact that you and Brother continue to bring it [ my lewd sexual deviant past ]up -...why would you bring such a quote?

Well its called throwing stones in glass houses, Reverend. You are quick to denigrate others from that lofty perch that you have placed yourself on while oddly forgetting that your own deviances and preferred sexual practices and experimentations are all over the WWW  put there by no one else but yourself and something that you want to conveniently forget while denigrating others. This is not a very wise thing to do when your own back story puts many here in the shade. 


Tradesecret wrote:You must be an unusual atheist. Most atheists I know are impractical and airhead.  Many end up in prison, for theft and sex related crimes, mostly kiddie crime. Many commit suicide and or are on drugs and alcohol. Not too many get married, or if they do - are on to their 4 or 4th marriage. Many are gay or lesbian. #33

Tradesecret wrote:I have used various substances and I experimented sexually in a variety of ways#50

 Not a wise thing to do imo.

What was it you that you repeatedly tell us all here?  

Tradesecret wrote: I simply asked God for wisdom and he gave to me?   I asked him for wisdom and he gave it to me. #53


You don't want to actually engage with the bible.

No, that will be you Reverend. And the reason you do not want to "engage in the bible" or even discuss it, is because you know absolutely FUCK ALL about it. 


I'm not embarrassed about what I wrote -

 I know. And that is another problem of yours. Talking filth is not my idea of discussing scripture or even discussing the clergy or religion. . But you simply cannot shut up about your own sexual deviancy and sexual experimentations of the past. I keep telling you, I didn't write those posts about you, you wrote them about yourself. So don't come here trying to shift the blame for it onto others that are simply reminding you that your own slate isn't as clean as you would like it to be, you devious church-going crocodile.



although in hindsight I regret that I did write it. I didn't consider that such comments would become so twisted by people like yourself -

 No one has twisted anything Reverend. Your initial claims of sexual deviance are supported by other and later claims of your sexual experimentations on this site too. 1 example  HERE>>   Tradesecret wrote:I have used various substances and I experimented sexually in a variety of ways#50


 But I guess that is your MO.  ......................you have to resort to attacking people.  

 You keep saying "attacking" while forgetting that you have "attacked" most atheist you know as being:

 Tradesecret wrote:You must be an unusual atheist. Most atheists I know are impractical and airhead.  Many end up in prison, for theft and sex related crimes, mostly kiddie crime. Many commit suicide and or are on drugs and alcohol. Not too many get married, or if they do - are on to their 4 or 4th marriage. Many are gay or lesbian. #33 Not to mention calling others "backward" and  " illiterate". and  " fucking thick" and" the slime of Satan"!!!


I have always endeavoured to believe that you might actually want to discuss religion in a reasonable manner.

 Like I had already said, you were given the perfect and rare opportunity to discuss the BIBLE in a reasonable manner here>>https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8152-the-story-of-the-certain-witnesses

And is all I got in return were slights, barbs and insults and ad hominem by the bag full and I haven't retaliated a single time.  On that thread in the link above I am giving you a bible lesson and a lesson on how to study and research it properly. You just couldn't stand the pace.


Well there you have it. I didn't want to do this. But I am going to put both you and Brother on permanent block.
Pull the other one, Reverend. You just cannot stand your own lies, hypocrisy and double standards being brought to the surface any longer.

But you do as you please. But do not be a coward by responding to anything I write where I cannot respond to you directly in return. It is an extremely cowardly practice carried out by a few here..... and  a habit that  I am confident that you will not be able to resist practicing yourself.

Off you go now, Reverend "tradey" Tradesecret.  𓂀 𓂀   👁👁





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@YouFound_Lxam

Brother D. you are a troll, who doesn't understand Christianity, and 
is even worse with the scripture.
Maybe if you actually took time to go to church and study the Bible for what it truly is, then you would understand.


Says the man that says  "Jesus wasn't a Jew"and that "Constantine wanted Jesus dead". And that Jerusalem was country 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


I never said Jesus wasn't a Jew, I said he did not abide by Jewish Law, he abided by Gods law.


YouFound_Lxam: That is why the Pharisees got him killed, using Judas (one of Jesus disciples) to hand him over to Constantine.#233

YouFound_Lxam: Jesus was not part of Judaism.#210

Judaism religious practices.
Were these his new  inclusive and tolerant and laws? Was this love thy neighbour?

“I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”Matthew 15:24

These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Matthew 10:5

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@YouFound_Lxam


Brother D. you are a troll, who doesn't understand Christianity, and 
is even worse with the scripture.
Maybe if you actually took time to go to church and study the Bible for what it truly is, then you would understand.


Says the man that says  "Jesus wasn't a Jew"and that "Constantine wanted Jesus dead". And that Jerusalem was country 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


I never said Jesus wasn't a Jew, I said he did not abide by Jewish Law, he abided by Gods law.


YouFound_Lxam: That is why the Pharisees got him killed, using Judas (one of Jesus disciples) to hand him over to Constantine.#233

YouFound_Lxam: Jesus was not part of Judaism.#210



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@Tradesecret
I don't have a problem with sexual deviancy.  

We know. And that is your problem. You admit to it here >>  https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEGUEW9 .  And don't seem embarrassed or ashamed to admit it Reverend. 

But your god has a big problem with it.

Leviticus 18:6-18
‘None of you shall approach any blood relative of his to uncover nakedness; I am the Lord. You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, that is, the nakedness of your mother. She is your mother; you are not to uncover her nakedness. You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s wife; it is your father’s nakedness.
The nakedness of your sister, either your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether born at home or born outside, their nakedness you shall not uncover. The nakedness of your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter, their nakedness you shall not uncover; for their nakedness is yours. The nakedness of your father’s wife’s daughter, born to your father, she is your sister, you shall not uncover her nakedness. You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s sister; she is your father’s blood relative. You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother’s sister, for she is your mother’s blood relative. You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s brother; you shall not approach his wife, she is your aunt. You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife, you shall not uncover her nakedness. You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother’s wife; it is your brother’s nakedness. You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and of her daughter, nor shall you take her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter, to uncover her nakedness; they are blood relatives. It is lewdness. You shall not marry a woman in addition to her sister as a rival while she is alive, to uncover her nakedness.



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