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@BrotherD.Thomas
@YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam wrote: Brother D. you are a troll, who doesn't understand Christianity,
Says the man that says "Jesus wasn't a Jew" and that "Constantine wanted Jesus dead". 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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@Tradesecret
So
who else do we have on your list of twelve disciples, Tradesecret?
How about another known cut-throat Zealot in the Jesus camp.
Number
10 on your chosen cut and pasted list. We have already touched on
this disciple at #110 ,
but
let us have a closer look at him.
Tradesecret
wrote:
"10.
Thaddaeus; or Lebbaeus or Judas the Zealot in Matthew and Mark, known
as Judas, son of James, not
Iscariot in
Luke and John and Acts".
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8152-the-story-of-the-certain-witnesses?page=4&post_number=99
And
you left off your list that he is also aka Jude. And Judas Brother of James.
So
here again, we have yet another cut – throat Zealot in the Jesus
camp that the BIBLE is openly admitting to.
Interesting
that the bible is quite silent on this Zealot, Thaddaeus . His name
interchanges quite a lot and can become very confusing. This Zealot
disciple is also know as Judas, Brother of James & Jude. But
lets stick to the specific biblical names on your chosen list.
Thaddaeus
- In the bible there is absolutely nothing recorded by this man
under this name only as mentioned on the list of 12 disciples!?
Labbaeus
- In the bible there is absolutely nothing recorded by this man under
this name and is only mentioned on the list of 12 disciples!?!?
Judas
the Zealot -In the bible there is absolutely nothing recorded by this
man under this name!?
Judas, son
of James.
It is only here and under this name that this man with four names is
recorded as saying anything at all worth of note in John 14:22 NIV.
This verse is interesting in that this Zealot is asking Jesus why he
is keeping his identity secret from the "rest the world "?
Why indeed? Maybe it was because it wasn't the right time and he wasn't ready? Was it a
case that his army of followers wasn't large enough to take on Rome
at this point in the mission? Maybe he was going to remedy this shortage of 4 or 5,000 with a "miracle"?
We
have to wonder why then the bible is silent on this Zealot
Thaddaeus/Lebbaeus? He was important enough to be listed among the
inner circle of twelve and we also know that he was given, and
trusted with, supernatural powers as were the other 11 disciples
which included the sword wielding Simon- called Peter and Satan, and
Judas the betrayer and the man that Jesus called the "devil"
as shown here>
"When
Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and
authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases". Luke
9:1
So
where on earth do Christians get the background from for this elusive
Zealot of the inner 12 disciples, Tradescret?
The
nameThaddaeus/Lebbaeus is believed to mean "man of courage"
"sent from god" or "courageous". Why is he
known for his courage? The bible on the surface mentions nothing
concerning a single courageous action by this Zealot with many names.
Those Christian scholars that you put so much trust in have written
many of words about this man which all boil down to them all saying
the same thing;
'
we know nothing', so on the question of this Zealot they are a silent
as the bible!? Yet the Christian church have made him a "Saint".
The
only thing we know about him comes under the other name that you left
off your list; Jude. Which boils down to nothing more than five
mentions of Jesus out of some 661 words in the whole letter that the
bible authors attributes to Jude. And in which he refers to himself
not as a disciple but a "bond servant". Here>>
But
here is something that you may not like to face. Lets look at this
part of the long name Thaddaeus/Lebbaeus;
Judas
the Zealot (not Judas Iscariot) known as Judas, son
of James #99
To
remind you; I had above said this to you when we previously touched
on this name:
Stephen
wrote: "Anyway, be it son of - or brother of - James, you should think
on that a while". #110
This
is where your own teaching and translation of Hebrew and Greek should come in
handy, Tradesecret.... If your "Hebrew mentor in Moscow" was
worth his salt.
Son
of "James", with the name James literally meaning "supplanter and to
supersede another especially by force or treachery". And
I am sure that even you know that the Greek rendering of the words
bar – abba simply means - son of - the father .
So
here then among this disciples other names we have a Judas that is a
son of a treacherous supplanter. This fact couldn't have gone unnoticed
by Jesus, could it, Tradesecret? Names meant everything in those times as I am sure your know. And there is no mention of Jesus
himself changing or adding these other names/ appellations to this
Judas/Thaddaeus.
So with a careful reading we clearly see that we have two disciples
named Judas whose fathers also just happened to be both called James.
With the bible telling us that one of these Judas' is Zealot and with
the other Judas being a traitor whose surname happens to be Isacriot
/Sicarii also a Zealot.
It
appears to me that the gospel writers are at pains to disguise or bury
the real nature of this disciple named Thaddaeus
Aka Judas the Zealot and why his name means "man of courage sent
from god" . And the clue to his real identity for me at least comes with these
words – "son of" the father; Bar-abbas.
Do
you remember saying this?:
Tradesecret
wrote:
"A
disciple is someone who followed Jesus. They
don't have to be called a disciple."
There
is, in all four gospels a man who is a murderer of Romans that goes
by that very name; Barabbas, isn't there Tradesecret? Matthew
27:15–26; Mark 15:6–15; Luke 23:18–24; and John 18:40.
Of
these four gospels Mark's is the most telling:
"And
there was one named Barabbas, which lay bound with them that
had made insurrection with him,[Jesus]
who had committed murder in the insurrection". Mark 15:7.
Luke
uses the word "sedition".
"And
they cried out all at once, saying, Away with this man, and release
unto us Barabbas:
Who
for a certain sedition made in the city,
and for murder, was cast into prison”. Luke 23:18-19
John
clearly states:
“They
shouted back, “No, not him! Give us Barabbas!” Now Barabbas had
taken part in an uprising"_.
John 18:40
There
is no getting away from it Tradesecret; this is your Judas/Thaddaeus
and number 10 on your list of disciples. Whose
first name was Jesus:
"So when the crowd had gathered, Pilate asked them, “Which one do you want me to release to you: Jesus Barabbas, or Jesus who is called the Messiah?” Matthew
27:17, that just happens also to be another Galilean Zealot.
The
first questions that you should be asking yourself is; What
"uprising"? What "sedition"? and What "
insurrection" had Jesus taken part in with Judas/Thaddeus aka
Barabbas, where the BIBLE says people were killed? But you won't want to face these BIBLE facts so you won't be asking anything.
So who do we have left on your list Tradsecrete?
Philip
and All the gospels and Acts
Bartholomew;
All the gospels and Acts except John where his name is
Nathaniel.
Thomas
and All the gospels and Acts but is also called Didymus in John.
Matthew
the tax collector; also known as Levi in Mark and Luke, not
mentioned in John and Matthew in Acts.
James
the son of Alphaeus, and In all the gospels - and Acts except John
Judas
Iscariot, who betrayed him.
Lets
go for; number 6 on your list -
6.Bartholomew;
All the gospels and Acts except John where his name is
Nathaniel.#99
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@Public-Choice
You may have a point.
But then someone also once said:
"Christianity is the belief that all of your sins, all of your mistakes, all of your regrets, and all of your pain can be given into the hands of The One who created you and loves you. A God who loves you so much He took the punishment for you".
So quick apology and "I believe in you lord" and all is forgiven.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
We can await her return.....
Ironic that of all the beautiful quotes in the world s/he chose this one for her profile then disappears..... back to harbour
Tradesecret wrote:
About me
“A ship in a harbor is safe, but it is not what ships are built for.” -John A. Shedd
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@YouFound_Lxam
And people like Brother D. can misinterpret scripture,
That is all you have done since you started this thread. The Brother has had you on the back foot almost since you started this thread. As have a few others. This is your latest clanger that the Brother had to correct you on>>> #355
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@Vaarka
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@Dr.Franklin
unreal
It is unreal. Doc. I posted two links/
We have nearly all Western government turning a blind eye to the treatment of Christian at the hands of a government that they are supporting with $$$$$$$billions and the few that are posting on this thread are as silent as the grave on the matter..... including you.
And while these Pastors and Priests are busy poncing and mincing around, Zelensky is doing this to Christians;
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Time is measured by continious movement of certain things.
Nope. Only one thing. The movement of the Earth around the Sun. The whole of the New Testament is all to do with the "change of time". Old time out - New time in.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Stephen,
YOUR REVEALING AND TRUTHFUL QUOTE: "If that be the case, I can live with the knowledge that when I slip my skin that I am hell bound to live among a better class of people, Brother D.😁"Yeah, the irony is that the likes of unreligious scientists like Carl Sagan, James Chadwick, J.B.S. Haldane, Alan Hale, Stephen Hawking, etc., are burning in Hell as we speak!
Good to know I am on the right path and heading in the direction I hoped for, Brother D.
Whereas, the likes of Albert Fish, American serial killer and child rapist - Devout Christian. David Berkowitz, aka Son of Sam, American serial killer - raised Jewish, converted to Catholicism, is now “born again” Christian. Peter Sutcliffe, British serial killer - raised Catholic, is now Jehovah's Witness, etc., are, or will be, walking with Jesus in heaven!
Just shows that any pieces of shite can end up in heaven as long as one says" I believe in you lord".
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9)
Yes. Ted Bundy and the Yorkshire Ripper have nothing to worry about, where as I am doomed to burn in the hell-fire simply for having the audacity question the bible.
With the passage shown above in where Jesus ALWAYS forgives us of our sins, then there is NO INCENTIVE not to sin in the first place! WTF!
Best get some sinning done before its too late for me then, Brother D.
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@FLRW
Shouldn't the topic be: God Doesn't Want You To Know He Exists, and I Can Prove It ?
Nice.😊
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@YouFound_Lxam
I thought this forum was to talk about how people are trying to make Jesus trans. Not to condemn people.
Then you'd be wrong, again. wouldn't you?
This sub forum is a forum to discuss region. It is a religion forum, not a relig-ious forum.
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@YouFound_Lxam
It's just a bunch of uninformed people who are looking up random scripture, and misinterpreting it, or changing it for their own convenience.
Yes. Well. There are one or two theists here that do exactly that when caught on the backfoot after painting themselves into a theological corner. Tradesecret is famous for it.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
whereas you being a Hell bound Atheist, don't have these problems of faith while upon earth. :(
If that be the case, I can live with the knowledge that when I slip my skin that I am hell bound to live among a better class of people, Brother D.😁
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@ Best.Korea
Today's Church is the opposite of that. It depends on donations.
And they think that encouraging a new Sodom and Gomorrah is their way to raise funds is it?
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@BrotherD.Thomas
@YouFound_Lxam
So, what you are saying [@YouFound_Lxam] relative to the Trinity Doctrine is simply: there are three divine persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Yet these three divine persons are distinct from one another: the Father is not the Son, the Father is not the Holy Spirit, and the Son is not the Holy Spirit. However, there is exactly one God (1 Timothy 2:5), therefore Christ is His own Father and His own Son. The Holy Ghost is neither Father nor Son, but both in spirit. The Son was begotten by the Father, but existed before He was begotten. Christ is just as old as his Father, and the Father is just as young as his Son. The Holy Ghost proceeded from the Father and Son, but He is of the same age as the other two!
Which always reminds me of a quote by a Rabbi I once read about Brother D.
"the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" said Rabbi David Kimhi - " therefore, with reference to this god whom you call Father, Son and Holy Spirit, - that part which you call the Father must be prior to that which you call Son, for if they were always coexistent would have to be called twin brothers.
More over, if the Son is the Father what of Mary getting pregnant? Is this not an incestuous congregation? The Father has sex with the mother to conceive the Son who is also the Father.....so technically the Son, who is also the father, had sex with his mother"...
It's all very - Oedipus, isn't it ?
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@SirAnonymous
Here Jesus gives all his chosen supernatural powers. Would this be immediately after he had recruited them all or sometime after time?
Matthew 10:1–2 — The New International Version (NIV) 1 Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness
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@Greyparrot
New Jersey mother being told she is being “monitored” by local law enforcement at the behest of military personnel who didn’t like her social media posts questioning sexualisation of children in school.
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What is it with Pastors and priests that they have to stoop so low to attract worshipers. Is it any wonder the Pews are empty?
And while they are busy poncing and mincing around, Zelensky is doing this to Christians,
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@YouFound_Lxam
God exists, and I Can Prove It.
Well you haven't done so yet, my friend.
There are many ways to prove gods' existence,
You haven't shown a single one of these "many ways" , either.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Well I was, and still am, hoping Tradesecret would take this very rare opportunity to engage in a cordial exchange on a thread that has, thankfully, gone almost uninterrupted by other members here. It is after all something Tradesecret complains never happens or ever gets the chance to do.
I reminded Tradesecret of this rare opportunity here >> https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8152-the-story-of-the-certain-witnesses?page=4&post_number=90
Tradsecret to my mind has no excuses not come to this thread to discuss and debate and seek to prove the rightness of his cause by the use of any effective and reasoned argument or discussion and to dispute anything I have to say concerning the scriptures.
Meanwhile I will simply keep heading in the direction I am in dripping out what I believe was really going on in the life of Jesus in scripture just below the surface.
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@Tradesecret
Tradesecret wrote: 11. Simon the Canaanite, and the zealot.
Indeed,
Tradesecret. But what you forgot to add was this Simon the Canaanite
and the Zealot was also the father of Judas Iscariot (aka Satan) as explained to
you via the BIBLE earlier on this thread. >. "son of" John 6:71. "Devil" John 6:70.
So
what do we know about Simon at number 11 on your list disciples,
Tradesecret? Because on the surface the bible tells us very little
about him.
…………………………..
The
Zealot stance was a simple one. Rome was the enemy and Rome had to
leave the birthright that had been bestowed on Israel by their god.
Every Jews duty was to fight for the reinstatement of a rightful ruler
to preside over the Kingdom of Israel. No Jew should “render unto
Caesar” any tax or acknowledge him as their ruler or master. The mission of
Zealots was supported from many quarters including Pharisee and the
“poor” of Qumran- the Essenes. And it was anything goes; they
were to use any and all means possible to achieve their goal; Jewish
independence. This would include anything from large scale military
operations, guerilla warfare, assassinations, cutting supply routes and cutting the throats of
their own family members that opposed them or
believed to be traitors.
In other words, they were the terrorist of the day and all from
Galilee where they were first formed by another (failed) Messiah
by the name of Judas of Galilee/ Gamala
Yes,
another Simon.
Simon
the Canaanite/Simon the Zealot and father to Judas Iscariot aka
Satan.
The
NT made it clear on this occasion that two Simons were actually one
and the same person. But while many Christians seem to believe that
this Canaanite was from a place called Canaan it is simply not the
case. The word is a political designation and not regional one.
The
NIV bible at Acts 1:13,Luke
6:15,Matthew 10:4 & Mark
3:18 do not hesitate to call him out for what he is; an outright Zealot. The
KJV calls him by his not so Zealotey sounding name- the Canaanite Matthew
10:4 KJV.
&
Mark
As
you may know, Tradesecret, with all of your years of training in
ancient languages that the Aramaic word equal to Zealot is- qannai
and when rendered (or corrupted) into Greek becomes – kananaios –
into English – Canaanite – meaning Zealot .
What
about those other two disciples on your list that are prone to violence at the
first sign of resistance to the cause, James
and John?#99
We can be sure that Jesus didn’t just pull their
designated surname “Boanerges” out of a hat. This designation
the bible says means “sons of thunder”. But it isn’t clear if
or not this designation is referring to their father- Zebedee or is
the direct designation given only to his two sons. Mark 3:17 KJV.
Either way, be it sons and/or father, at least two of these men were
men of violence and fierce individuals which the BIBLE attest to. We
also know that these two were vying against Simon- called Peter aka
Satan, for a high position in the movement too, and at any cost. Mark
10:35-37
How
and where did Jesus meet these two “Boanerges” men of violence?
Well it appears that, like Simon – called Peter and his brother
Andrew “they
straight away” - abandon their nets, tools, boats, business, home,
wives, children and any other family without a single good-by and
followed a man they had never met in all of their lives:
“And
going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of
Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father,
mending their nets; and he called them.
And
they immediately left the ship and their father, and followed him”.
With
the little biblical information we have about these two disciples
there is only one conclusion to be drawn; they too are Zealots. They
were easily riled, quick to explode and quick to call down violence
on anyone that showed the slightest opposition to the cause. And they once
begged Jesus ignore a please of “demon possessed” little girl……
who just happened to be the daughter of a Zealot/Canaanite. As
mentioned above, the Zealots will see their own fry if it furthers
the cause and protects the secrets of the mission.
And
Jesus met them in Galilee, where else?
And keep this in mind, Tradesecret, that the wife of Zebedee, the mother of James and John was named Salome. One of those women of Bethany.
Jesus
is beginning to look like a military leader on a recruiting campaign.
..................................................
So
who else do we have on your list of twelve disciples, Tradesecret?
How about another known cut-throat Zealot in the Jesus camp.
Number 10 on your chosen cut and pasted list.
Number 10 on your chosen cut and pasted list.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
@YouFound_Lxam ; because you can't put a single thought of yours together logically without trying to have to defend it in the aftermath because it was WRONG! LOL!
Indeed, Brother D. Most theist seem to have that problem. Or they will default to denying what they have written or it is your fault because "you don't understand the bible".
@YouFound_Lxam; I've forgotten more about the Bible than you will ever learn
I don't think anyone here can deny you that.
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@Tradesecret
Are you a drug addled kiddy fiddler?
Not at all, but according to you:
Tradesecret wrote: "Most atheists I know are impractical and airhead. Many end up in prison, for theft and sex related crimes, mostly kiddie crime. Many commit suicide and or are on drugs and alcohol. Not too many get married, or if they do - are on to their 4 or 4th marriage. Many are gay or lesbian......Most of them don't think very much....."
Very hypocritical things to say about those people considering your own self confessed "sexual deviancy" and "sexual experimentation" and sexual perversions and experience. Shouldn't you be helping and advising them instead of ridiculing them? they are "lost sheep" after all.
And then immediately go into how great you are and above everyone else AGAIN;
Tradesecret wrote: "I took several years to learn the ancient languages so that I could read it myself. I learned all about the ancient cultures so that I could understand as best I could how they lived back in those times so that I could best understand what the authors are saying. I trained with people from all different religions and non-religions in order to make sure that I could best understand these cultures and languages."
You just keep those tall tales and ripping yarns about yourself, coming, Reverend. The place wouldn't be the same without them.
I don't particularly care what lies you make up about the bible -
What lies would they be?
But given what you write most of the time is old - and refuted already.
Just not by you.
Your are the proven bible dunce that is incapable of even conjuring an original thought. I will though give you acclaim and accreditation for the very colourful imagined past that you have invented for yourself, Reverend, that doesn't know he's a Reverend.
what makes a book religious?
I asked you is the bible a religious book?
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@BrotherD.Thomas
YouFound_Lxam, the number 2 Bible fool of this Religion Forum,THE STATEMENT IN QUESTION TOLD BY JESUS IN THE "FIRST PERSON": ”But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.” (Luke 19:27)When Jesus specifically stated the above statement, why did He "wussy out" and didn't bring forth His enemies Himself to slay before Him, as it is Jesus' position to do so in the first place in the following passage: JESUS SAID: "Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”(Romans 12:19)YouFound_Lxam, address this contradicting situation shown above for us.YOU MAY BEGIN:
A very good question, Brother D. I am quite looking forward to a rational and reasoned answer.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Yes. And? Many of the Jews rejected him. The people of Jerusalem didn't even know who he was. The Samaritans rejected him altogether because he only has his eyes on the prize...Jerusalem.There is nothing there in John 1:11–12 that states that there were Christians in Jesus' time or that he preached to the "Goy ".Christianity, was not named as a religion before, Jesus came to earth,
I know. It came centuries after Jesus lived and not while he was here. Hence no Christians OR CHRISTIANITY in Jesus' time. In fact , the words Christian or Christianity are extremely rare words in the NT only three times if I remember correctly. And neither words are mentioned at all in the 4 gospels.
Let me explain.Before Jesus came down to earth, Jerusalem was one of the only countries in the world to have stayed loyal to his scripture.
So Jerusalem was a country, was it?
So he sent his son down to Earth originally to free the Jews.
ONLY to free the Jews.
But when Jesus came down, and the Pharisees rejected him, as well as most of the Jewish community, God decided to instead give his gift of sacrifice to all men.
And Jesus knew all about this change of plan did, he?
The reason the Pharisees rejected him, was because they were very corrupt, and the didn't want Jesus convincing the people to stop giving them money for their sins..
Jesus wasn't accepted for many reasons and by almost everyone except the Zealots and the Galileans.. And even many of them rejected him towards the end. And maybe they were right to do so, he didn't fulfil a single prophesy of the expected messiah. And he didn't get a sniff of the throne of David as was promised to his mother the most "blessed among women" Mary.
And that is your mistake when talking about Jesus the JEW!I won't be going into early Christianity with you because you know not you Constantine from your Pilate. Or your scriptures.Well no. Jesus was not a Jew.
Stop it FFS!!!
He was God.
You haven't even proven there is a god yet.
Therefore, Jesus wasn't in part of any religion, because he was God.
But a whole religion was created in his name. As I said three time now, Jesus would have been appalled that a religion was created in his name.
Jesus was born of Middle Eastern descent.
Yes to Jews, in the land of the Jews. You will be looking a long time to find a single scholar to agree that Jesus was not a Jew. But please, knock yourself out.
Hopefully you get to read the Bible more.
And you should start reading it.
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@Tradesecret
Are you a drug addled kiddy fiddler?
Not at all, but according to you:
Tradesecret wrote: "Most atheists I know are impractical and airhead. Many end up in prison, for theft and sex related crimes, mostly kiddie crime. Many commit suicide and or are on drugs and alcohol. Not too many get married, or if they do - are on to their 4 or 4th marriage. Many are gay or lesbian......Most of them don't think very much....."
Very hypocritical things to say about those people considering your own self confessed "sexual deviancy" and "sexual experimentation" and sexual perversions and experience. Shouldn't you be helping and advising them instead of ridiculing them? they are "lost sheep" after all.
And then immediately go into how great you are and above everyone else AGAIN;
Tradesecret wrote: "I took several years to learn the ancient languages so that I could read it myself. I learned all about the ancient cultures so that I could understand as best I could how they lived back in those times so that I could best understand what the authors are saying. I trained with people from all different religions and non-religions in order to make sure that I could best understand these cultures and languages."
You just keep those tall tales and ripping yarns about yourself, coming, Reverend. The place wouldn't be the same without them.
I don't particularly care what lies you make up about the bible -
What lies would they be?
But given what you write most of the time is old - and refuted already.
Just not by you.
Your are the proven bible dunce that is incapable of even conjuring an original thought. I will though give you acclaim and accreditation for the very colourful imagined past that you have invented for yourself, Reverend, that doesn't know he's a Reverend.
what makes a book religious?
I asked you is the bible a religious book?
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@YouFound_Lxam
That is why the Pharisees got him killed, using Judas (one of Jesus disciples) to hand him over to Constantine.
Constantine!? So Pontius Pilate was named Constantine. Or was Caiaphas also named Constantine? I see.
Maybe Constantine was named Caiaphas Pilate?
He was not sinning, he was listening to what God told him to do, not what man told him to do.
Well, is all we ever hear Jesus say are the words " for it is written" but he never gets around to telling us where it is actually written.
JESUS SAID!“I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”Matthew 15:24(John 1:11–12).
Yes. And? Many of the Jews rejected him. The people of Jerusalem didn't even know who he was. The Samaritans rejected him altogether because he only has his eyes on the prize...Jerusalem.
There is nothing there in John 1:11–12 that states that there were Christians in Jesus' time or that he preached to the "Goy ".
The Jewish people rejected Jesus as the one who will free the Jews. I am not taking about Jewish traditions, I am talking about the Christian faith.
And that is your mistake when talking about Jesus the JEW!
I won't be going into early Christianity with you because you know not you Constantine from your Pilate. Or your scriptures.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Rosends wrote: In Judaism, and remember, Jesus was supposedly Jewish, breaking a law IS a sin.YouFound_Lxam wrote: Jesus was not part of Judaism. He follows the Christian religion, because his death, and resurrection, started it.
Seriously!!? Jesus was a born Jew of Jew parentage. There were no Christians in his time. And if the BIBLE is to be believed then he hadn't come to save or free anyone other than Jews.
JESUS SAID!
“I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”Matthew 15:24
These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans.Matthew 10:5
Jesus would have been appalled that a new religion had sprang up in his name.
If you look in the Bible, you will actually see Jesus going against the Judaist high priests. He came to earth not to follow the laws of Judaism, but to spread Gods word.
Judaism is "gods word" , you clown.
JESUS SAID!
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.Matthew 5:17
He [Jesus] came to earth not to follow the laws of Judaism, but to spread Gods word.
If you had have said Paul I would agree with you totally. That is exactly what I have said here>
Paul had said that the Old Testament laws were null and void and called them,"shit".
The self confessed liar Paul had his own version of what "gods laws" were.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Stephen,Your post #12 is well said with even more historical background to my poor Jesus having His disciples leave Him. We can only wonder in how Jesus, AS GOD, felt when they left Him, but as we know, Jesus knew they were going to leave Him in the first place because Jesus is omniscient!In whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things.” (1 John 3:20)
Well he certainly knew he was a wanted man from the time he made his well staged appearance in Jerusalem.
This was nothing short of an open challenge to temple authorities. With his knowledge of the so called prophesies of the OT about a King Messiah being sent to free the Jews, it was with the full knowledge of what he was doing, and he could have hardly fulfilled it unwittingly or through sheer coincidence. One could say it was staged to show for the first time that Jesus had actually acted the part- at least - like a king and Messiah.
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@zedvictor4
In that sense GOD and Trinity is therefore an over-complicated explanation for what we already know.
The trinity gobbledegook came about because the Romans had to make Jesus a godman to cause him to be acceptable to the Roman citizenry. Rome and Romans already had its established pantheon of gods. There was no "god in three persons" as far as Jesus the JEW was concerned. It is nothing more than yet another Christian invention.
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@Yassine
I'm quite surprised one of these claimed gospel authors wasn't name Simon. Simon's were everywhere in Jesus' day according to Tradesecret. They were more common than donkey shite.- One of the disciples of Jesus (pbuh) was named Simon, one of his -alleged- brothers too.
Yep. You couldn't turn a corner in ancient first century Palestine with tripping over someone named Simon.
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@Tradesecret
Why is it you are so desperate to get rid of me?
Sound like more victimhood to me.
I don't want to get rid of you Tradesecret. Quite the opposite. I prefer you stick around. I dread to think what this religion forum would become without being able
read your ripping yarns and tall tales about yourself,, and the highly qualified position that you have afforded and elevated yourself to in the belief they put you in an higher qualified position than anyone else on this forum to speak on such matters as the ancient scriptures.
What are you scared about?
On the contrary. I believe it just maybe you that are worried that some here just might start taking on board what I am actually saying about your scriptures and find out for themselves if or not that my take on the New Testamant story of Jesus is more plausible than the myth that you have been regurgitating and adding to for over the last two thousand years.
You don't even have to read what I have to say concerning these unreliable and ambiguous half told stories that makeup the four contradictory gospels. . It should be of no interest to you whatsoever. After all, you are the one that knows better than any - "drug addled kiddy fiddling#33" - atheist, aren't you?
Is the bible a religious book, Tradesecret? Or just another history book to you?
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@YouFound_Lxam
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.Yes, that means that he explains Gods rules, in story's, to make it more clear to them.
Nope. He spoke in parables so they WOULDN'T understand him. I keep telling you. You have to understand the situation in Palestine at the time and how dangerous it was for any rabble-rouser, especially for someone that had a following that posed a threat to the status quo.
Even his own disciples were in the dark and did not understand. They were forever asking Jesus to explain the parables to them. For which he would use yet another parable.
“And when He was alone, they that were about Him with the twelve asked of Him the parable. And He said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God, but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables.
“That seeing they may see, and not perceived: and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted and their sins should be forgiven them. And He said unto them, Know ye not this parable? And how then will you know all parables?” Mark 4:10-13
“That seeing they may see, and not perceived: and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted and their sins should be forgiven them. And He said unto them, Know ye not this parable? And how then will you know all parables?” Mark 4:10-13
“And the disciples came, and said unto Him, Why do you speak unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto YOU to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but unto them it is NOT given.” Matt 13:10-1
It was a case of "calling the many" but "choosing the few".
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Oh, do I need to define parable again?
No. But you do need to know the difference between what is a parable and a clear statement made by Jesus.
Tell me, why did Jesus use parables?
Keeping in mind that Jesus says this:
Matthew 13:13
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mark 4:34
He did not say anything to them without using a parable. But when he was alone with his own disciples, he explained everything.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
@YouFound_Lxam
Brother D. Thomas wrote: Stephen, How many times have we seen these pseudo-christians like the Bible stupid YouFound_Lxam try in vain to rewrite the the Bible to take away Jesus' true modus operandi?
Many times, Brother D. Tradesecret does it every other post when he is on the backfoot after painting himself into a corner.
YouFound_Lxam wrote: Ok, BrotherD.Thomas, yes Jesus did say that.But you are reading it wrong still.
First you outright deny Jesus spoke those words and now that you have been shown to be completely wrong, you have moved the goal post and claim it is not being read correctly!?
It's always the other person that is reading it wrong and doesn't understand, with you lot. Have you ever once stopped to consider that you don't have a clue what is going on in the New Testamant? And that it is you that could be "reading it all wrong"?
You keep telling me that I should study the bible. How do you know I haven't? And the verse in question is not a parable. It is a clear order to bring any dissenters to him to be killed especially those that had deserted the movement.
In fact it comes directly after the parable of ten minas if you'd studied it closely. And he uses it to justify his intended violent actions. Or should I say the author of Luke gospel used it to justify the intended actions of his hero.
So I think you need a little more bible study.
Tradesecret is a Tutor in all things biblical and theological.
He tutors and teaches students at Universities in Australia, or India? Or is it New Zealand? He has memorised the bible from a very early age and knows it backwards and forwards, and reads it in ancient Hebrew and Greek. He also reads these ancient languages and translates them into English. And he is a qualified and accredited Pastor with a large congregation and is a Chaplain to his countries Armed Forces.
Just what you need I should think.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
YOUR DIRECT QUOTE FROM THE LINK ABOVE POSTED ON 6/12/2019 AT 7: 53-36 AM:Tradsecret wrote: “Yeah, Us Indians - and I can say I am Indian because I lived there for a while - have a serious problem with sex. We are deviants - but this is ok - because we are just modeling our goddess”
So s/he is an Indian, that is Australian, that is a New Zealander whose first language is Greek!!!?
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@BrotherD.Thomas
YouFound_Lxam; Wrote: A parable is a way that Jesus taught his followers about the bible, and what God wants for them, through story's.So no, God did not command anyone to be killed.You are literally false when you said:JESUS SAID: "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.” (Luke 19:27)Because Jesus did not say that.
Well the bible states that he did say those words. It is Jesus saying those words and no one else. He was speaking of those Jews that wouldn't listen to him or accept him as king or messiah.
Yes indeed, there was a very nasty side to your "turn the other cheek son of god", once you understand what is going on in these scriptures and what was going on in Palestine at the time.
Well now who's the uninformed one?
You are. You are denying what the bible actually states. And what it means. It is a embarrassingly bad habit of Christians to deny what is actually written in the bible when having to face a few truths as to the real nature of Jesus the man.
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@Yassine
@Tradesecret
Now those kinds of things have happened in other religious traditions too, but the difference is this:These people were actual eyewitnesses to what they were claiming.- The authors of the Gospels are anonymous. The names John, Luke, Matthew...etc are conventional -decided a century after the fact, & not of the actual disciples of Jesus (pbuh)
I'm quite surprised one of these claimed gospel authors wasn't name Simon. Simon's were everywhere in Jesus' day according to Tradesecret. They were more common than donkey shite.
Tradesecret wrot; In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.It is not an argument. It is a statement of fact.A statement of fact testified to by the only witness who was there. God.Yassine- This is circular. How do I know God indeed said that?
If it came from the mouth of Tradesecret, then you can guarantee that it is a lie.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
We can only assume that Jesus' disciples didn't want to LITERALLY eat Jesus' flesh and drink His blood as the passage above so states, therefore this passage comes into view; "Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?" (John 6:60)Its finished, the disciples obviously didn't want to eat Jesus' flesh or drink His blood because of this revealing passage; "From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him." (John 6:66)
The reason they deserted him was simply because he wasn't saying what they wanted to hear. As I mentioned in another thread; "turn the other cheek" and "love your enemies" and worst of all, "render unto Caesar" wasn't the kind of language that the cut-throat Sicarii assassin Zealots of Galilee wanted to hear and from which most of his disciples originated.. Many other (failed) so called "Messiahs' before and after Jesus had been military leaders on a mission to ride the holy land of the pagan Romans. And on the surface at least, in the four gospels we are presented with the wrong type of Messiah...... but scratch the surface and we can find a different Jesus altogether.
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@YouFound_Lxam
No. He was taken to a tomb privately owned by his secret disciple Joseph of Arimathea that was inside private walled garden where his wounds were treated with medicines brought to the tomb by his other secret disciple Nicodemus and he recovered from his trauma.Why would they take him to his tomb, if he was still alive?
I can't believe that you even had to ask that. But here goes. He was crucified for crimes against Rome. He was entombed (not buried) to keep up the pretence of him being "dead". If it was known that he had survived, they would have simple rearrested him and made sure he didn't survive a second time. (unless of course there has been a bribe involved).
No. His crucifixion made them despair and lose hope. The mission had failed. He hadn't live up to what was expected of the promised Messiah. And most of his following had deserted him and well before his arrest because they knew it was doomed to fail .The promise by god that he would "inherit the throne of David" didn't come to fruition either..Then why did all the sudden, soon after his death and resurrection, did all of his disciples all at once leave their families and risk their lives in the name of Jesus?
Who says they did? Besides, doesn't the scriptures say they did this at their first meetings?
As a matter of curiosity, did his followers go into mourning when he was arrested, crucified and pronounced "dead"?
And they were lying. They hadn't witnessed anything.That's not a valid point. Saying to someone you lied isn't a proof of lying. You are just assuming they lied, because you don't want to believe it.
Ok. tell me. How many of Jesus. disciples witnessed a stone cold dead Jesus get up of his cold slab, change his tunic, roll away the stone and go mincing around the olive groves as if nothing had ever happened?
Now would you afford me the same curtesy and reply to my post that you have ignored three times.
Stephen wrote: So the 7 day creation story is not to be taken literally but the 1 day = 1,000 years is to be taken literally?How do you know?YouFound_Lxam Wrote: Here is the thing about the scripture. The scripture doesn't always mean something literally happened, and it doesn't mean something metaphorically happened.
All very ambiguous then.
So how do you know when to take something literal or metaphorical? Did the illiterate superstitious Jews and early Christians understand metaphor and idioms?
From what I have read even the disciples of Jesus didn't understand what he was talking about most of the time, so how can you claim that you understand what is meant by something spoken 2000 years ago, when the local goatherd and fisherman couldn't?
Stephen wrote: "So the 7-day creation story is not to be taken literally but the 1 day = 1,000 years is to be taken literally?"YouFound_Lxam wrote: Yes maybe. But maybe by the scripture saying that, it could be representing that God lives outside of time, therefore it was portrayed differently.But then again it could have meant a literal 7 days, or 7 thousand years. Thats the fascinating thing about the bible.
"maybe it is"? "could have meant"?
That's called make it up as you go along where I come from. And opens the door for you take literary licence and apply any excuse as long as it suites.
YouFound_Lxam wrote, That's the fascinating thing about the bible.
And it is fascinating to me that Christians have had 2000 years to iron out these ambiguous half stories that make up the NT and with every new excuse for these biblical ambiguities comes new dilemmas and questions To put that in English, you Christians have continually been putting patches on a burst innertube for over 2000 years and it has left you holding nothing but patches..
You should actually take note of what your Christ had to say on such matters.
Matthew 9:16-17 New International Version
“No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the patch will pull away from the garment, making the tear worse. Neither do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst; the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.”
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@Yassine
@Tradesecret
YouFound_Lxam Well, I mean there are a lot of ways I can prove his existence. But I was hoping someone else would put in why they don't believe it so I can disprove their argument.Yassine- Say, the Universe has a Creator, God. Prove to me Jesus / Yahweh is said God.Tradesecret wrote: Genesis 1:1Yassine- Where is the argument? Why don't you lay it out for me.Tradesecret wrote: It is not an argument. It is a statement of fact. A statement of fact testified to by the only witness who was there. God.
John 5:31, KJV: If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
John 5:31, NLT: 'If I were to testify on my own behalf, my testimony would not be valid.
You just can't help yourself , can you Reverend.😁
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@YouFound_Lxam
1. Jesus died by crucifixion.
Yes. He was convicted of Les Majesty and for crimes against Rome along with two other rebels that had taken part in the rebellion with him.
2. He was buried.
No. He was taken to a tomb privately owned by his secret disciple Joseph of Arimathea that was inside private walled garden where his wounds were treated with medicines brought to the tomb by his other secret disciple Nicodemus and he recovered from his trauma.
3. His death caused the disciples to despair and lost hope.
No. His crucifixion made them despair and lose hope. The mission had failed. He hadn't live up to what was expected of the promised Messiah. And most of his following had deserted him and well before his arrest because they knew it was doomed to fail .The promise by god that he would "inherit the throne of David" didn't come to fruition either..
4. The tomb was later found empty after his interment.(accepted by 75% of scholars)
Yes. Jesus had recovered enough to be moved. And an empty tomb is only evidence that a tomb was found to be empty.
5. The disciples had experiences which they believed were literal appearances of the risen Jesus.
That's because he hadn't died.
6. The disciples were transformed from doubters to bold proclaimers.
No, it left them arguing among themselves over who would lead the church.
7. The proclamation of the resurrection took place at the very beginning of the church.
Proclaimed by all those that hadn't witnessed anything but an empty tomb.
8. They preached the message of Jesus's resurrection in Jerusalem, where Jesus had been crucified and buried.
And they were lying. They hadn't witnessed anything.
9. The gospel message centered on the death and resurrection of Jesus.
No. The church is built on the lie of the resurrection.
10. Orthodox Jews who believed in Christ made Sunday their primary day of worship.
That doesn't mean, or prove anything. Least of all that a three days old rotting and stinking corpse came back to life
11. James, a family skeptic, was converted to the faith, when he believed he saw the resurrected Christ.
This is the nearest you have gotten to telling anything resembling the truth. James and the rest of the family including his mother believed him to be crazy. Which is rather odd considering that she had experience an " immaculate conception" and told by god himself how successful her holy begotten child would become.
12. Saul (Paul) was converted to the faith because he believed he saw the risen Jesus."
Paul was a self confessed liar that would be "all things to all men" as long as promoted his cause.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Tradesecret wrote: https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEGZNA4post doctoral
!
S/he want's everyone to be even more impressed, Brother D. I wonder what field?
I know its not biblical or theological research.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Brother D. God hates
Proverbs 6:16 -17 - Proverbs 21:4
Haughty as being “blatantly, disdainfully proud.” Haughty eyes are said to be sin in along with a proud heart. Haughty eyes are characterized by an arrogant attitude and a tendency to “look down” on others.
Remind you of anyone, Brother D?
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@Tradesecret
. You keep a list of everything I say and then use it whenever you get stuck with an answer.
I could never get stuck on anything where you are concerned Reverend. And that "list" of comments and statements made YOU are to be found anywhere on this site that YOU offered freely to all forum members. The forum has its own search engine.
And they wouldn't be answers either. They would simply be to remind YOU of your own claims made past and present when the occasion calls for it.
You and Brother are fundamentally unable to engage properly in a discussion.
More lies. I and members of this forum have presented you with the perfect opportunity to engage with me without interruption from anyone else on the forum. You have failed on two fronts to do that. You started with your usual denials, then went up a gear using slights, abuse and then outright ad hominem where-as I haven't, and you have totally ignored the thread altogether. But I can assure you, that no one is surprised by your behaviour or your ignorance..
Your problem is that you cannot, and are incapable of discussing scripture simply because you don't know them at all, this is why you only prefer to discuss god and how loving and wonderful you believe he is, but you'd be wrong about that too. How many times is it that I have to correct you on bible verses?. How many times have you denied what is actually written in the bible? How many times have you demanded I produce proof from the bible? What kind of highly qualified minister of the church would demand this if he actually did "know the bible backwards and forwards and had memorised it from an early age and in ancient Hebrew and Greek "? You are a compulsive pathological liar, and most people here should know by now that you are.
Like I have said, you simply do not know your subject enough to hold a decent conversation, no matter what accolades and qualifications that you brag about and claim to hold. You should have never called me "slime of Satan and dumb as fuck", when I had only been here a while and don't even know me, Reverend, when you don't even know yourself or who you are from one day to the next.
James 4:16 " As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil". ...... and will always backfire on you.
I am a doctor #130
Well then, "heal thy self physician". Luke 4:23
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Religious people stop loving there moms WAYYYYYYYYY to early , ( i think )Im pretty sure.
Maybe because of this, Deb
Matthew 10:35-36
35 For I have come to turn
“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’
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@Tradesecret
@BrotherD.Thomas
I am a doctor#130You just cannot help adding to your long list of imagined qualifications , can you Reverend. Maybe you should ask god for more wisdom of how to stop compulsively lying and aggrandizing about yourself.if you are going to refer to that image - at least quote it in full.Ok. The profile that you refer to is the profile you chose to share on a forum of the WWW. Here>>. https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEGZNA4It shows you to be Female although you now insist that you are now Male.It shows you to be a New Zealander although you insist that you are Australian.It shows that your first language is Greek where your other profiles show your first language is English.It also shows you to have a "doctorate" but are now denying that you are a Doctor but wish to be addressed as such!! << only someone with serious mental issues could make such a statement as that.I personally do not care what you choose to be from one day to the next.But I do have a problem with someone that masquerades as a person to have been "chosen by god" to be a " Pastor to a congregation of over three hundred". That also claims to be " a Chaplain to his countries Armed Forces" while preaching to others about truth and integrity with a bible in one hand and a sheet full of lies in the other but knows nothing about the bible he is holding, while also claiming to "read it three times a year" and to have " memorised it backwards and forwards from a very early age" and knows it in "Hebrew and Greek".James 4:16 " As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil".You should stick with the farm that you also claim to own, imo.I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to Brother who seems to want to continue his little narrative about me. I am not a doctor and I am not pretending to be one either. I have explained that entire image that Brother continues to show is nothing but a profile I put up because he and you were stalking me.
Answering questions and replying to comments on a public forum is not stalking you absolute clown , Stop playing the victim , AGAIN!!!
It was a profile meant for nothing more than revealing the stupidity of Brother and you. You both take it however you wish
Well that backfired spectacularly on you didn't it? Because is all it revealed was that you, a man that brags to being "chosen by god to lead a church of some three hundred parishioners" and that had personally revealed to you " wisdom "among many many other things, to be a compulsive psychopathic liar.
I do own a farm. So what? Australia a big place. It's not a Huge farm. But it's a farm.
Yes well we are all used to your exaggerations and self promoting aggrandizations by now. So it doesn't make the blindest bit of difference.
James 4:16 " As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil". ...... and will always backfire on you.
At least I passed high school
You couldn't pass water unless there was someone there to assist you, Reverend..... and then you'd still miss aim, as you always do.
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@Tradesecret
but we've read what he [Stephen ] said about you - shila highlighted that didn't he?He doesn't think you are particularly bright.
Let's see what Shilla highlighted then.
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