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@Nevets
The theory that the Garden of Eden was based in Sumeria does appear to be gaining support however.
Many of the Old Testament biblical stories are lifted from ancient Sumerian epics.. This is a proven fact. They were likely to have been copied during the exile in Babylon.
ABRAM aka Abraham came from Mesopotamia. It is believed that he was "called by god" to leave his homeland to create a new nation elsewhere.
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@eventuality001
If you read the full story,
Take a leaf from your own book and read all of this thread _ in full.
So to take a one line / ONE STEP THEOLOGICAL Catholic or Trinitarian or Islamic approach to the Bible -this does not present the full story - it only provides support for a pre - conceived - presumed narrative by using this ONE STEP THEOLOGY reasoning.
That is just another way of you saying I am cherry picking and not understanding the "context".
Like I have said. Being "possessed" in those ancient time could mean a number of things. I have listed a few on this thread, including being ill, disagreeing, going against the grain or upsetting the status quo. It doesn't mean that one has been over taken by an evil entity.
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Still nothing of consequence to debunk what millions of Christians - other than you - believe.
Once again, I will point out to the reader that Stephen did not refute one of the hundreds of verses.
They refute themselves simply by not including a single witness that "the lord says will witness " his return.. I have asked you to produce witness from inside or outside of the scriptures that attest to seeing a once dead and rotting corpse, but now alive and well Jesus coming on a cloud in AD 66 - 70. YOU HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO DO SO! not a single one. Not one single follower from this little gang:
"every eye will see him,"
Do any of his disciples claim to have seen him at the siege in Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?. What about any one of the Mary's? What about Joanna,and Susanna? what about Salome, does she give an account of Jesus being present at the siege in Jerusalem AD 66-70? Do any of them make any mention of seeing their lord at the siege in AD 66 70?What about his "secret "disciples Joseph of Arimathea? Or Nicodemus, do they make mention of seeing him at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 -70? And what about his own MOTHER!??? ANSWER: NO TO ALL OF THE ABOVE.
yet also according to YOU and Peter "some" of the people witnessing the promise would live a "thousand years" and would witness the return. You cant have it both ways , and I won't let you have it both ways.
When there are many verses telling us that we should listen to the voice of god, who is it that we should we listen to? Jesus's own words? OR PETER a man that tells lies - a man that denied even knowing Jesus three times! Luke 22:59-62? PETER, the traitor and coward that was supposed to be "keeping watch" over Jesus but fell asleep three times! that led to Jesus` arrest, trial and barbaric torturous execution? Matthew 26:40?
It appears to me that if we are to accept that Peter is correct in his thousand years excuse then that alone blows your Jesus ' return a few decades later, clean out of the water, doesn't it.
He just keeps asserting his favourite verses over and over
Do I?
What I actaully have been doing is simply quoting from these unreliable and ambiguous scriptures what they themselves have to say on the matter of Jesus' return. I haven't had to "assert " anything. I haven't interpreted anything either. but YOU on the other hand, by your own admission has been interpreting everything for us. This is YOU above saying this , is it not ? >>>> "I offered for my interpretation as biblical".
That will be the verses where GOD HIMSELF! promised that some of these alive at the time of his promise will witness his return. This didn't and hasn't happened. AS THE BIBLE clearly points out. hence the confrontation Peter has with descendants of those that heard the promise all dead and gone. LOOOOOOOOK! >>>2Pe 3:4 - “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”
It was always going to be the case of apologists such as Peter making excuses to the gullible, ignorant and superstitious of time that would swallow his feeble excuses - hook line and sinker. Peter was a fisherman after all and he cast out this little piece of bullshit on his line for them to bite and swallow >>>
You are forgetting brothers that “With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day”.2 Peter 3:8:
And I suppose they all, said "ok , I see", and all went about their merry way? And without mentioning the fact that if this indeed be the case then Jesus wasn't dead for only three days but for 3,000FKN YEARS!!!!!!
as well as the many proofs I offered for my interpretation as biblical.
You offered no "proof" other than cherry picked verses that ONLY YOU believe proves Jesus has already returned in first century AD and your interpretation of anything biblical counts for absolutely ZERO.
While YOU are telling the world that Jesus has already returned there are MILLIONS upon millions of Christians that believe his return hasn't happened yet but is imminent. Are they fools and are they stupid?
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@BrotherDThomas
@Theweakeredge,
Theweakeredge, wrote: I don't need to show anything - because there is nothing to show - can't show what's not there
Then why even bother agitating the issue by sarcastically asking someone would they like YOU to show THEM a list when you know that you can't!?#44
FFS! get a grip
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@Mandrakel
Of course, biblical nuts are always going to argue that "Oh, yes they are authentic because we had them carbon-dated you know".
I couldn't agree more. You are absolutely spot on with that comment. I will always give credit where it is due; it is your best comment by far under your new or any of your previous pseudonyms. WELL DONE!
They absolutely love the fact that their Jesus and many of his follower are mentioned outside of the New Testament, don't they?
That is until, one brings up the verses such as how Mary was frightened to death of the misogynistic Peter( the lords "rock") and hated Mary Magdalene venomously saying things such as:
" I won't let this woman talk before me"
“ let Mary leave us, for woman are not worthy of life”
Yes , Peter! He that - it is alleged - upon whom the lord said he would build his church. The scrolls prove this to be utter bollocks. Peter hated Mary Magdalene with a passion and probably because Jesus had shared and entrusted many of the "mysteries" to her and not him.
This is the same Peter in the Christian scriptures that lied, and denied even knowing Jesus. The same Peter the traitor that conveniently just happened to fall asleep when he was supposed to be guarding his master that led to Jesus' arrest, trail and barbaric torture and execution.. Yes good ole' Pete the coward, what a lad. Christians should have a closer look at Peter and read closely what THE BIBLE actually has to say about his part in Jesus' trial. But they will even deny what it is they are reading although it is there in black on white. They are cowards, just like Peter was.
Yes, Mandrakel, it is when such verses are highlighted from these scrolls then it is back to the usual shite of , "context" and "having to understand ancient Greek".
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@zedvictor4
Yep, they are Vic.
Why he even attempts to camouflage his nonsense is baffling at times. It stands out like an limbless gymnast.
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@Mandrakel
Yep. And it will get better. He will start denying that he started a thread that has his name down as the author.So, that is your prophesy, is it?
It is and here you are doing what you always do and have started denying making claims already..#20 - #22
You simply cannot keep up with yourself or your own threads never mind anyone else's threads.
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@Mandrakel
I said, "There is a plethora of authoritative and properly researched reports relating to lower IQs in theists"
You may well have done but YOUR thread title is a question that askes : Why Do Theists Have Lower IQs? <<<<<<<<< that's a claim, that you have made? If you had the brains it may have served you better to have dropped the "why" from your title and you may have not painted yourself into a corner.....IF you had the brains.
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@Mandrakel
This same question was asked years ago. Have a look. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/289-what-is-a-godAnd you have an even closer look. The OP was "What Is a God?"
It was only a minute ago that you were complaining of "semantics".
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@Mandrakel
This same question was asked years ago. Have a look.
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@Mandrakel
Every year approximately nine million children under the age of five-years-old die.That's about 1000 per hour and most of those children's parents will be praying right now for God to spare their lives.Surely a God who can either do nothing to help these children or just doesn't care is either impotent or just plain, outright evil.
FFS you really are a cretin aren't you?
You have asked this question before too . Do you take me for a complete twat!?
Added09.01.18 09:14AMAuthor:Willows,2 years agoEvery year approximately nine million children under the age of five-years-old die.That's about 1000 per hour and most of those children's parents will be praying right now for God to spare their lives.Surely a God who can either do nothing to help these children or just doesn't care is either impotent or just plain, outright evil.
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@ludofl3x
I agree.
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@Mandrakel
on which day did God create fossils?
How many times are you going to ask this same questions. Do you really expect different answers?
Author:Willows,2 years ago
Added09.01.18 03:38PM
"On what day did God create fossils?"
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@n8nrgmi
the main reason i say that, is because the police man's supporters say floyd was gonna die anyway as he was doped up. they seem sure of it.
But was he helped on his way? It is a question that just has to be asked - unfortunately -regardless of the circumstances.
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@ludofl3x
THis guy's schtick is starting to look awfully familiar.
Yep. And it will get better. He will start denying that he started a thread that has his name down as the author.
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@Mandrakel
I don't have an answer to this topic since I am an atheist and believe there is no God therefore I wouldn't know why God allegedly does or doesn't do,
Then you are asking a pointless question because - no god- means that anyone or anything but a god is responsible for the fate of these poor children.? Yet here you are asking the age old question that one can only expect a child to ask.
Do I expect theists to reply earnestly? No I don't but I'm sure it gives them something to think about.
Don't be silly. Christians have had millennia of practice in inventing excuses and sweeping away such childish questions with - take it or leave it answers. Give them something a little more difficult and they run a mile. For instance, they can never square the circle when it comes to the unreliable and ambiguous mess that make up the scriptures.
One of the best excuses for this nonsense about men being born of virgins and laying dead and rotting for days and coming back to life that I have heard was from Christian author Tertullian and his claim of "a diabolical mimicry". I give him 10/10 for imagination.
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@Mandrakel
Mandrakel wrote: wouldn't it be fair that their schooling should include lessons in countering such misinformation?Would you be prepared to stand in front of a class full of Muslim children to explain that the prophet Muhammad was mentally deficient and had an "IQ lower than that of normal people"?Mandrakel wrote: I would like to see: "Now boys and girls, this morning we are going to learn about religion. Now there is no right or wrong about religion but there are some utter loonies out there who believe......"There are indeed "utter loonies out there who believe...". So how would you go about telling these Muslim school kids that to have these beliefs is "right or wrong", if there is - as you say - " no right or wrong about religion"? And what will be " the truth" that you would wish to teach them about Islam?Mandrakel wrote: I am not an educationalist...................... I am damned sure that I wouldn't allow religion to be taught in schools
Ok, but it is taught in schools and probably will be for many years to come, and this is why you have started a thread saying ; " that their schooling should include lessons in countering such misinformation", isn't it?
So, would you be willing to stand in front of a class full of Muslim children to explain that the prophet Muhammad was mentally deficient and had an "IQ lower than that of normal people"? And risk having your head removed by one of those people that you also regard as having a low IQ. Yes or No?
How would you counter for instance the"misinformation" spouted in the Quran?
Your title asks; Should Schools Teach The Truth"?
With what truth would you counter the belief that the prophet Muhammad believed that God had chosen him as his messenger and so began to preach what God had revealed to him in a vision?
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@Mandrakel
I have to say that your questions recently are very really old tired and very childish questions .Old, tired and very childish are they?
Yes. You know the answer to this tired old question as important as it is. And you know what type of apologist answer you are likely to get.
In view of the fact that the OP is about 1000 children dying every hour is this some sort of sick joke playing on the word "children"?
No. Your OP is all to do with if "god really cares" and not just exclusively about children. It is a question completely on par with "why do we have to die"? Or "will I see my mummy and daddy again"?
So, you tire of hearing about innocent children dying every day and think it childish that someone raises the issue do you?
That is not what I have said , is it. Stop attempting to put words into my mouth. I have enough of that shite from Christian apologists.
I think anyone with any moral sense of caring or compassion would be disgusted at such an offensively revolting and callous post.
I expect that you do and you are quite welcome to your opinion of my post; But tell me , how many times do you believe that you will need to ask the " does god really care" question before you receive a completely new and original answer to the standard "mysterious ways" reply or the introduction of the supernatural to answer your tired old question?
And you appear to have dodged this too.#19 didn't take long to get you on the back foot did it?
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@Mandrakel
Does God Really Care?
Only for his chosen and only at times.
I have to say that your questions recently are very really old tired and very childish questions . Do you really intend on having a discussion of god caring when some of your other statemen's and threads all point you already knowing the answer to this particular question.
LOOK>>Mandrakel wrote " Every year approximately nine million children under the age of five-years-old die.That's about 1000 per hour and most of those children's parents will be praying right now for God to spare their lives ".
So what do you think the answer is to your own question -"does god really care"?
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Music
One of the greatest gifts mankind ever bestowed on him/herself. I honestly couldn't imagine the world without music.
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@Mandrakel
wouldn't it be fair that their schooling should include lessons in countering such misinformation?
Would you be prepared to stand in front of a class full of Muslim children to explain that the prophet Muhammad was mentally deficient and had an "IQ lower than that of normal people"?
I would like to see: "Now boys and girls, this morning we are going to learn about religion. Now there is no right or wrong about religion but there are some utter loonies out there who believe......"
There are indeed "utter loonies out there who believe...". So how would you go about telling these Muslim school kids that to have these beliefs is "right or wrong", if there is - as you say - " no right or wrong about religion"? And what will be " the truth" that you would wish to teach them about Islam?
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@PGA2.0
Show me where the NT includes/refers to anyone two-thousand plus years as witnessing the Second Coming.
I didn't ask for a witness some 2000 years later I am asking for a witness just some 4 decades later. As the bible says "some" will not pass away until they witness the once dead corpse of Jesus alive and coming on a cloud.
And the second coming hasn't happen yet in our time,some 2000 years later, so I could hardly produce a witness, now could I? . But I may be able to very soon as his return is expected any day now and is imminent according to BILLIONS of Christians.
I am asking you where in,or outside of the New Testament does anyone claim to have witnessed a resurrected Jesus Christ alive and well at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66_70 ? and you cannot give one single instance. Your excuse for that is that three of them were dead. What about the other 69? Were they also dead. And what about all the women in Jesus' movement that I mentioned about, were they all dead too? Jesus said said:
“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”. Matthew16: 27-28.
he also said:
“Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened “Matthew24:25-34.
Mark13:26-30 says the same as does Luke21:27-32.
But it did pass away didn't it? And you cannot find one historical witness biblical or otherwise from the " SOME" remaining that claims to have witnessed Jesus' return on a cloud in AD 66 - 70 , NOT A ONE!
They ignore the primary audience of Scripture and the timeline, just as you are doing in making that point. Many verses speak of a soon, near, quick, coming of the Lord.
Yes, and YOU also claim that Peter explained " SOON " and " Quick " and NEAR" " by calling "soon" and "quick" and " near" a thousands fkn years!!!!
...........does that translate to thousands of years later and as imminent?
It does if we are to believe Peter , doesn't it ! YOU have insisted on using this >>>"With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day"2 Peter 3:8" , to explains why Jesus' didn't appear to those that confronted Peter about Jesus' no show.
When there are many verses telling us that we should listen to the voice of god, who is it that we should we listen to? Jesus's own words? OR PETER a man that tells lies - a man that denied even knowing Jesus three times! Luke 22:59-62? PETER, the traitor and coward that was supposed to be "keeping watch" over Jesus but fell asleep three times! that led to Jesus` arrest, trial and barbaric torturous execution? Matthew 26:40?
It appears to me that if we are to accept that peter is correct in his thousand years excuse then that alone blows your Jesus ' return a few decades later, clean out of the water, doesn't it.
I have told you. There are as many biblical verses that Christians say prove Jesus return hasn't happened yet but will happen soon and is imminent!Christianity.com."So, the question, “Is Jesus coming back soon?” is a resounding yes, and He will return without unnecessary delay. Acts 1:7 confirms the teaching of Jesus in Matthew 24:36 when it says,He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.”Jesus said this after the disciples asked Him if He was going to restore Israel. The point by Luke in Acts 1 and Jesus in Matthew 24 is that no one knows when He will return, but that He will return."They seem to trump everything you believe and have claimed . Are they stupid?They ignore the primary audience of Scripture and the timeline,
I see , so you understand these scriptures much better and more clearer that those millions of Christians that are expecting Jesus' arrival very soon. So are they stupid for not being able to read and understand the bible like you claim to be able to read and understand it?
You seem to keep missing the point that for every verse you quote that you believe "proves" Jesus has already returned, they too quote the same verses and other verses that they believe "prove" his return hasn't happened yet but is imminent. Only one of you can be correct.
Here is another example from another Christian organisation saying Jesus' return is imminent and using many of the verses that you also insist on.
GET READY! JESUS IS COMMING SOON.
This one makes their belief clear ending with the words ;
"For the hope we have in Jesus soon return in Christ's name, we ask it.
Amen."
Are they stupid too? are they too not reading and understanding the bible correctly? Are they too taking these verses "out of context" ? Or is it that they do not understand ancient Greek?
Here's a thought, maybe Peter' s bullshite excuse was a mistranslation and when he said: >>>"With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day"2 Peter 3:8" -
it was actually was meant to read " and a thousand years are like nearly two days and nearly two days is like nearly like 2,000years" ?
I keep telling you. Your claims are nonsense and no more provable that any other christian church or organisation.
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"every eye will see him,"Do any of his disciples claim to have seen him at the siege in Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?. What about any one of the Mary's? What about Joanna,and Susanna? what about Salome, does she give an account of Jesus being present at the siege in Jerusalem AD 66-70? Do any of them make any mention of seeing their lord at the siege in AD 66 70?What about his "secret "disciples Joseph of Arimathea? Or Nicodemus, do they make mention of seeing him at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 -70? And what about his own MOTHER!??? ANSWER: NO TO ALL OF THE ABOVE!!!I answered all these questions in Post 126 for those who are observant.
Would you like the question again.
you are misrepresenting the narrative. Jesus said some.
You "replied that there were 3 dead" so couldn't have witnessed the second coming, which again shows Jesus's promise that everyone standing and alive at the time of the promise was complete BS. and then there is the point of "this generation NOT passing away" .
NOW: What about any one of the Mary's? Do any of them give an account of Jesus being present at the siege in Jerusalem AD66_70
What about Joanna,and Susanna? what about Salome, does she give an account of Jesus being present at the siege in Jerusalem AD 66-70?
Do any of them make any mention of seeing their lord at the siege in AD 66 70?What about his "secret "disciples Joseph of Arimathea? Or Nicodemus, do they make mention of seeing him at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 -70? And what about his own MOTHER!???
You have not a single "eye witness" in or outside of scripture to this second coming that you insist had already taken place in AD 66-70. But choose to cherry pick verses to fit your own version from the unreliable and ambiguous scriptures simply to suite your own narrative. You have proven nothing.
I have told you. There are as many biblical verses that Christians say prove Jesus return hasn't happened yet but will happen soon and is imminent!
Here is one single example of hundreds that do not agree with YOU. And that do as YOU do and quote verses from scripture that they - just like YOU - believe proves their case that Jesus' return is imminent. : Fill your boots!
Christianity.com.
"So, the question, “Is Jesus coming back soon?” is a resounding yes, and He will return without unnecessary delay. Acts 1:7 confirms the teaching of Jesus in Matthew 24:36 when it says,
He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.”
Jesus said this after the disciples asked Him if He was going to restore Israel. The point by Luke in Acts 1 and Jesus in Matthew 24 is that no one knows when He will return, but that He will return."
They seem to trump everything you believe and have claimed . Are they stupid?
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@Polytheist-Witch
Half your posts are you telling theists what they think.
Nope. Where are you proofs and examples.
And the irony here , Witch, is that this thread is all about "getting the facts straight". You haven't manged to produce any facts to support your claims directed at me personally.
So when you are ready lets see them or simply cease and desist with your unsubstantiated and erroneous claims.
Half your posts are you telling theists what they think.
Most of my posts are questions to theistic apologists. And many more also show the apologetic theist they are bible ignorant.
Now put up or shut up" FFS!
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@Polytheist-Witch
None of that has anything to do with the fact you consistently post comments to people
Nope. I was giving my side of an opinion opined by another poster. I have never started a thread to attack theist. NEVER. And you couldn't show me one . So wind your fkn neck in Witch, you are creating an unnecessary personal argument with me on someone else's thread.
you post with daily inaccurate "facts" about what they think and believe.
well let us see just a few examples and we'll put that accusations to the test shall we?
As far as the OP they gave their opinion and I gave mine.
As did I . I gave my own personal experiences - as did he - that I have had and still do have with apologetic theist.
Then you stepped in and gave what you thought was mine.
Nope, I responded to what you wrote in reply to me, Witch keep up. LOOOOOOOOK HEERRREEE>>>#25 Show me where I have said something was your opinion? and hurry up about it!
Maybe you should quit speaking for others and state your own thoughts
I don't speak for others but only myself and you cannot give me one single example of me doing so.
AND I have already stated my thoughts and opinions on this very thread when prompted to do so. LOOOOOOOK! HEERRREE>>>>#11
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@Polytheist-Witch
How can you spend so much time around people and know nothing about them.
You are confused Witch. It not the people, Witch.
No. Its the scriptures that I have spent so much times studying and that I have spent "so much time around".. 40+ years in fact. And I would have thought devout theist would have spent a lot more time around them than I have ever done. But when they are actually put to the test, I find they know absolutely nothing about that which the believe and have faith in. Tradesecret is a classic. He is a Pastor AND a Chaplain that claims to preach and teach and tutor all over the place, but knows nothing, absolutely nothing about what it is he charges Universities to lecture their students on. You couldn't make it up. He's a fraud in other words , Witch.
SO;
If you have nothing else to ask me why not address the OP , there's a good girl ?
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@Mandrakel
They dish it out
They do when they are made to look stupidly bible ignorant and stuck for answers. And they do get rude and nasty with accusations and insults such as :
and I give it back....with interest.
Yes, I do too, now and again but only rarely. I have returned the compliments but have found that this is when the victimhood comes in.
I prefer to highlight the ambiguous half stories in the bible for what they really are and then watch the apologist attempt to explain away the contradictions and anomalies and sometimes vile verses that make up these scriptures. Such as Lot telling the townsmen they can have his young virgin daughters to do what they like with them, Genesis 19:1-21. Only a Witch would be comfortable with such stories about a man that the bible calls "righteous".2 Peter 2:7 Yet is all I that get is referred to as the:
dipshyt,....... controlling and obsessed moron........ doofuses......... stupid ......... obsessed fool............ pathetic........................... anti-God freaks! .... suckers!#16 EtrnlVw
But it keeps a smile on my face.
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@Mandrakel
@ EtrnlVw, wrote: "of a handful of doofuses that have decided picking on religion and religious people justifies "
That will be the victimhood that I mentioned earlier at post #11 They turn to the victimhood complaint when they have no answers or you have made them look bible ignorant.
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@Mandrakel
Matthew7:7-8
“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
Prayer and its alleged "power" is the bibles most cruel lie.
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@PGA2.0
How many times!? I too agree that Jesus was still around in AD 70. I believe there was every chance that he was present at the siege of Jerusalem.What I categorically WON'T be convinced of is that his dead, stinking and rotting corpse came back to life, shared a meal, went up into the clouds, came back down and made himself know that -Revelation 1:7"every eye will see him," present at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 - 70.And you have proven nothing at all as much as you believe you have.Exactly, you won't believe He rose from the dead and was taken into heaven in a cloud of glory.So you don't have any evidence then. Well why am I not surprised?Another tactic used to subconsciously implant in others that I don't have evidence.
My, you are getting almost paranoid. Are you saying I am leading "the people astray" . Are you saying that those reading here do not have their own minds? And are you saying that the people that believe Jesus' return is imminent any day now, stupid and confused? You really are holier than thou , aren't you.
"every eye will see him,"
Do any of his disciples claim to have seen him at the siege in Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?. What about any one of the Mary's? What about Joanna,and Susanna? what about Salome, does she give an account of Jesus being present at the siege in Jerusalem AD 66-70? Do any of them make any mention of seeing their lord at the siege in AD 66 70?What about his "secret "disciples Joseph of Arimathea? Or Nicodemus, do they make mention of seeing him at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 -70? And what about his own MOTHER!??? ANSWER: NO TO ALL OF THE ABOVE!!!
Peter, Paul, and James were martyred before AD 70
So they didn't live to see the second coming as Jesus promised they would , then. And what about the other 69 ? Luke 10:1-23 Jesus Sends Out the Seventy-Two.
In your own time sunshine.
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@Polytheist-Witch
. If you are that annoyed consider why you continue to expose yourself to theists since you make no conversations or alterations to anyone by posting here.
Expose myself? How? Annoyed? How?
you make no conversations or alterations to anyone by posting here.
I have no intention of doing either to anyone. I don't care if there is a god or not. I don't care that you or anyone has a faith or a belief. I simply scrutinise and question that which theists have a faith and belief IN. Just like you are questioning my non belief and why I am here posting on a RELGION forum..
You don't have to have religion.
Well many theists will give you an argument their , Witch. They believe atheism is also a religion. What say you Witch?
Besides, I believe much about the bible. Minus the "wonders and miracles" of course.
Do you believe in the miracles and wonders said to have been performed by a man god Jesus, Witch?
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@BrotherDThomas
I think your flogging a dead horse there Brother..
He shot himself in the foot when he claimed this bullshit> "I, too, am a student of Greek,"#28 as if it made him some kind of authority on all matters biblical, but runs a mile when asked to demonstrate his linguistical talents in the Greek language simply by translating a few biblical words and verses from which he ran a mile.
He has been rather silent of late when the subject of translation raises its head. It must have finally dawned on him that his claims instantly rendered the scriptures in English unreliable and useless as any kind of authority when it comes to the Christian religious faith ..
He should take on board>>> Matthew 22:29
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@secularmerlin
secularmerlin wrote: What evidence have you got?@fauxlaw replied: Faith precedes the miracle, not the other way around. If it was that easy, to just be shown, rather than put in the effort to have the evidence yourself, it would already be known to you. My telling is not going to accomplish a bloody thing for you. I've told you how to obtain the evidence. Stop asking and do it yourself. What, you thought it was yours just for asking me? Sorry, it doesn't work that way. As I said, don't ask me. I'm not the source of what you want. Nor is your attitude; that must change, as well. You're like a child that wants candy. Stop it. Grow up. Go to work. I've told you the nature of the work. Do it. Yourself. I will not, and actually cannot given it to you.
That'll be none then.
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@Mandrakel
Given that children will regrettably be exposed to biased religion in their lives wouldn't it be fair that their schooling should include lessons in countering such misinformation?
It would. But good luck with that. Muslims still today get upset over a novel and a cartoon. We have recently had a teacher beheaded and another has had to go into hiding with his family under police protection.
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@PGA2.0
What I categorically WON'T be convinced of is that his dead, stinking and rotting corpse came back to life, shared a meal, went up into the clouds, came back down and made himself know that -Revelation 1:7"every eye will see him," present at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 - 70.And you have proven nothing at all as much as you believe you have.Exactly, you won't believe He rose from the dead and was taken into heaven in a cloud of glory.
So you don't have any evidence then. Well why am I not surprised?
"every eye will see him return," Revelation 1:7
Do any of his disciples claim to have seen him at the siege in Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?
What about any one of the billion Mary's that hung around with him, did any one of them mention his return? What about Joanna,and Susanna? what about Salome, does she give an account of Jesus being present at the siege in Jerusalem AD 66-70? Do any of them make any mention of seeing their lord at the siege in AD 66 70?What about his "secret "disciples Joseph of Arimathea? Or Nicodemus, do they make mention of seeing him at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 -70? And what about his own MOTHER!??? ANSWER: NO TO ALL OF THE ABOVE!!!
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@Mandrakel
We don't yet have the technology to prove God:Ask them, why do we need it or why haven't we got itBy "them" I presume that you mean theists.
I do mean theist. And I say so because if they indeed have said that " We don't yet have the technology to prove God:" I would want to know why they think technology is needed these days when it apparently was never needed in the past, when god would just drop in and destroy something or kill someone when ever he felt like it. If they insist I would also want to know why we don't have the technology for the exact same reason. But I will admit, I have never heard this clap-trap before, it is an entirely new excuse to me for theists not being able to prove there is a god.
I have found from experience that to ask questions of theists to explain their nutty ideals is fraught with trepidation.
I don't find that. I usually find them to be so cock-sure of themselves... to begin with, until it dawns on them that the one asking theological questions happens to know more about their own subject that they do themselves. That is when they turn nasty and start being sarcastic and playing the victim.
The answer will invariably be completely non-sensical or not even addressing the question.
That's par for the course. I quite enjoy it.
That's why I prefer to slap the facts down in front of them.
That one doesn't affect them in the slightest either. They will even deny what is actually written in their own scriptures to the point of bare faced lying. They will redefine words and sometimes whole verses to mean what they want them to mean and they will rewrite scripture in the hope they you are too lazy to check for yourself. And they will often put words into the mouths of biblical characters including the mouth of Jesus and hope you are too stupid to notice.
Then there is the "context"argument and the Greek argument <<< one of my favourites that is. And another few of my favourites is the - I have qualifications, I am a Pastor, I am a Chaplain. I teach religious studies to universities. As if somehow this qualifies them and their argument to be above yours. I have found that most of these desperate claims turn out to be lies in the hope that one will bend to their perceived "authority".
Yes, of course, they will put on a brave front,
Yep. To the point where they will make themselves look the fools and liars that they inevitably are.
jump up and down and get nasty
Yep. Had that many times. But then plead victimisation when the compliments are returned and paid in kind.
but when they get behind closed doors they will start sobbing.
I have a sneak feeling this may be the case for a few.
Eventually I will wear the buggers down.
I doubt it. They have a god on their side, remember. whereas you and I only have common sense and an ability to read, scrutinise and question scriptures for ourselves.
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@Mandrakel
- You have to believe/have faith:Ask them why?Something must have given us a soul and consciousness:Ask them why?It doesn't hurt to believe just in case God is real:Tell them it does, can and has.We don't yet have the technology to prove God:Ask them, why do we need it or why haven't we got it?
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@zedvictor4
Marketing ideology, is simply that
Yep.
"Soon we will also apply for marriages, as well as for government support to expand our business."
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The question is, could this happen?
It does happen. I think the most recent piss in the wind "new religion" is Kopimism and a boy named Isak Gerson is the"spiritual leader" of the Missionary Church of Kopimism where information is regarded as "holy". Make what you like of that, but it has been recognised as a church and religion with no gods or supernatural forces. But my concern with it already is that I believe that this will not stop just at freely "sharing" or copying information but also how young Mr Isak Gerson starts to see himself in relation to his followers in the future.
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@PGA2.0
I don't care if you don't believe them. I am simply pointing out to you what it is that the scriptures actually DO SAY and not what I want them to say AND CERTAINLY NOT WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO SAY!How was Jesus to return...IN THE FATHER'S GLORY. How did the Father come in glory, for the umpteenth time?
Define glory
You ignore the context, as I have pointed out many times.
Its always the other side that doesn't get the "context" isn't it?
He will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.” <<<<<<<<<<hasn't happened has it?You're dead mistaken. One verse does not make doctrine.No that will be the bible that is mistaken, then you see, those are not my words, they are words taken directly from your own unreliable scriptures.HERE>>>Acts 1:11Bare assertions.No they are biblical facts.Your interpretation is not the biblical fat.
I haven't "interpreted" anything.. I have clearly repeated what it is the scripture themselves actually say. I haven't added my own opinion of what is being conveyed and I have certainly not taken anything away.
"every eye will see him,"
Do any of his disciples claim to have seen him at the siege in Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?. What about any one of the Mary's? What about Joanna,and Susanna? what about Salome, does she give an account of Jesus being present at the siege in Jerusalem AD 66-70? Do any of them make any mention of seeing their lord at the siege in AD 66 70?What about his "secret "disciples Joseph of Arimathea? Or Nicodemus, do they make mention of seeing him at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 -70? And what about his own MOTHER!??? ANSWER: NO TO ALL OF THE ABOVE!!!
What is your point here? Three signs? What do you want to discuss about them? Please be more specific.I have said that just like YOU keep reposting biblical verse after biblical verse that you believe proves Jesus has already returned, they too contain BIBLE passages and verses that predict Jesus' imminent return that hasn't happened yet. YOU can take what you like from them, I don't care.What do you want me to take away from your link and discuss? I am not going to squelch every fire you start. Be specific.
I have been specific. You just don't agree with them.
I have said that just like YOU keep reposting biblical verse after biblical verse that you believe proves Jesus has already returned, they too contain BIBLE passages and verses that predict Jesus' imminent return that hasn't happened yet. YOU can take what you like from them, I don't care.
So. Stop crying and stamping your feet . You haven't proven anything at all and never can.I can't prove anything to someone who will not be convinced. For others who take this seriously, please investigate further. Perhaps they will understand the truth of the matter of which the Preterist speaks. The Second Coming was in AD 70.
How many times!? I too agree that Jesus was still around in AD 70. I believe there was every chance that he was present at the siege of Jerusalem. What I categorically WON'T be convinced of is that his dead, stinking and rotting corpse came back to life, shared a meal, went up into the clouds, came back down and made himself know that -Revelation 1:7
"every eye will see him," present at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 - 70.
And you have proven nothing at all as much as you believe you have.
You need first of all to prove that a dead and rotting stinking 3 day old corpse was returned to life. <<<<<<<<<<<THAT should be your starting point if you want to convince me of anything.
Off you go.
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@BrotherDThomas
he runs away and hides
Brother. The "Greek" card is the same as Muslims playing the "one has to be able to read the Quran in Arabic" Card.
I remember phoning in to a twat at LBC radio UK to talk to a presenter named Maajid Nawaz after I hearing him telling an English man that he "couldn't possibly ever know what he was talking about and would never understand the Quran unless he read it in Arabic".
I phoned in to remind the dozy ignorant twat that Indonesians and Pakistanis make up the greater population of Muslims around the world and asked him to prove did they all understand AND READ Arabic? He cut me off and ran away too.
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@PGA2.0
You have to give justification for your point of view,
I did you clown. I quoted the bible just as you have done.HERE>>>. “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”2Peter 3:4
This does not cut it: "every eye will see him," <<<<<<<<<<DID EVERY EYE SEE HIM RETURN? NO!See Him in what way?
Arrive the same way as he went HERE>>>Acts 1:11
And according to millions of Christians, he hasn't returned yet. Are they stupid to believe he will soon?
Jesus said He would return in that generation.
And he didn't according to 2Peter 3:4
How is the Bible inconsistent when properly understood? The problem is that you think you have correctly interpreted it when you have not.
I haven't interpreted it in anyway at all. I have simply repeated what the scripture actually states, not what I want it to state., unlike YOU!
You pay no attention to the meanings found in Scripture, just make it up,Oh ffs stop it!!! YOU are the one that has made up the story of Jesus crucified DEAD and lying stinking in a grave for three days, then rising ALIVE from his grave and going up into the clouds of heaven to then descend back to earth and his return to already have happened in AD 66_70, NOT ME!When you examine prophecy, everything He said did happen in His Olivet Discourse happened.
STOP LYING!!!! These were the OT prophecies:
Isaiah 43:5-6. Gathering all the diaspora (scattered)Jews from around the globe back to Jerusalem. FAIL! And failed twice if you are to be believed.
Zechariah 14:9 The god of the Hebrews will be followed universally uniting humanity as one. FAIL! And failed twice if you are to be believed.
Isaiah 2:4 Usher in a world peace, ending all suffering oppression and illnesses. FAIL! And failed twice if you are to be believed.
Ezekiel 37:26-28 Build a third temple. FAIL! And failed twice if you are to be believed.
Meanwhile, here are some videos concerning "the signs" that we are all to look out for complete with BIBLE passages and verses that predict Jesus' imminent return.What is your point here? Three signs? What do you want to discuss about them? Please be more specific.
I have said that just like YOU keep reposting biblical verse after biblical verse that you believe proves Jesus has already returned, they too contain BIBLE passages and verses that predict Jesus' imminent return that hasn't happened yet. YOU can take what you like from them, I don't care.
He will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.” <<<<<<<<<<hasn't happened has it?You're dead mistaken. One verse does not make doctrine.No that will be the bible that is mistaken, then you see, those are not my words, they are words taken directly from your own unreliable scriptures.HERE>>>Acts 1:11Bare assertions.
No they are biblical facts. I don't care if you don't believe them. I am simply pointing out to you what it is that the scriptures actually DO SAY and not what I want them to say AND CERTAINLY NOT WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO SAY!
So. Stop crying and stamping your feet . You haven't proven anything at all and never can.
Stinking corpses indeed!
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@BrotherDThomas
And to add:.............
BrotherDThomas wrote;FAUXLAW'S EXACT QUOTE BELOW IN STATING WITH SPECIFICITY THAT THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN BIBLE IS NOT VAILD AND IS THEREFORE OUTRIGHT USELESS!Fauxlaw wrote:1. When you are dealing with texts that are nowhere and nowhen close to original manuscripts...2. When no original manuscripts exist to draw any translation from...3. When you are dealing with a variety of original authors [though no direct examples of same], and some books clearly of differing styles, meaning different authors even in the same books...4. When you have a series of ecumenical attempts to standardize a canon, and still end up with variable canons...5. When you should know that dictionary-to-dictionary translation is fraught with potential corruption, even innocently, because culture drives language, and dictionaries do a piss-poor job of teaching culture, particularly when trying to define another language's culture...6. When you have no assurance of scholarship of the translators in multiple languages...7. When you are dealing with the potential of intentional corruption in agenda-driven translation...8. When you are dealing with generational repeat of translations, even to the current era...
..............has once more rendered his own scriptures, unreliable and pointless then that goes nowhere in proving that there isn't any validity at all to these scriptures that Christians hold dear. They have been rendered useless.
Indeed the "Greek" card played often by the apologists is a gift that keeps giving to the atheists.
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@BrotherDThomas
You think that you have free will, BUT, once again, JESUS prevails in the fact that you DO NOT have free will as He shows in one of many biblical verses below:
As I have said Brother. If the scriptures are to be believed then all our paths are chosen for us. And god "knows us". Even that forest dweller of Papua New Guinee who has never heard of this ancient Jew god from the other side of the world. Or seen a colour TV.
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@PGA2.0
Are those MILLIONS of Christians that believe the second coming is imminent, stupid?Most are mislead and duped by the Dispensational view of Scripture of Darby and Scofield, or some other futurist view, just like I'm sure you have been influenced in the past.
And you don't consider yourself to have been duped? You people do make me grin at times. It is always the other side that has it all wrong isn't it?
So are they stupid to believe that Jesus return is imminent?
For one thing, I am logically consistent; you are not.
Then that means the bible is not consistent (which I agree) as I have only highlighted what it is the bible clearly states. But you just ignore it and I don't care.
HERE>>>. “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”2Peter 3:4
The bible at 2Peter 3:4 justified my question and my claim. You are on the ropes sunshine and have proven nothing.
"every eye will see him", <<<<<<<<<<DID EVERY EYE SEE HIM RETURN? NO!
Luke 24:51 While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven.
He will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.” <<<<<<<<<<hasn't happened has it?
He will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.” <<<<<<<<<<hasn't happened has it?You're dead mistaken. One verse does not make doctrine.
No that will be the bible that is mistaken, then you see, those are not my words, they are words taken directly from your own unreliable scriptures.HERE>>>Acts 1:11
You pay no attention to the meanings found in Scripture, just make it up,
Oh ffs stop it!!! YOU are the one that has made up the story of Jesus crucified DEAD and lying stinking in a grave for three days, then rising ALIVE from his grave and going up into the clouds of heaven to then descend back to earth and his return to already have happened in AD 66_70, NOT ME!
You have shown not a single piece of evidence that proves a single one of those claims. And if you want to attempt the longest thread on the religion sub forum board,be my guest. But you simply cannot shake off what the bible itself has to say on matter no matter what you consider yourself to be.
Meanwhile, here are some videos concerning "the signs" that we are all to look out for complete with BIBLE passages and verses that predict Jesus' imminent return.
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Yes, Jesus was taken up into heaven and clouds of glory hide Him from their sight,
And this proves what exactly. What's more, why do you consider anything you have posted this far , proof of anything?
And you keep avoiding the very obvious point that these people, didn't ask when is the second coming going to happen BECAUSE IT HAD ALREADY HAD HAPPENED! , now did they?
NO! they asked because it HADN'T HAPPENED WHEN JESUS PROMISED IT WOULD HAPPEN?
HERE>>>. “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”2Peter 3:4
The bible at 2Peter 3:4 justified my question and my claim. You are on the ropes sunshine and have proven nothing.
"every eye will see him", <<<<<<<<<<DID EVERY EYE SEE HIM RETURN?
Luke 24:51 While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven.
He will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.” <<<<<<<<<<hasn't happened has it?
Are those MILLIONS of Christians that believe the second coming is imminent, stupid?
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@BrotherDThomas
OMG!.... THAT'S IT, THE CHICKENS FOR FAUXLAW FINALLY CAME HOME TO ROOST, WHERE HE ADMITS THAT WHAT IS SHOWN WITHIN THE SCRIPTURES IS NOT VALID BECAUSE OF HIS 8 PROPOSITIONS THAT HE HAS INCLUDED TO PROVE THIS FACT, THEREFORE, FAUXLAW CONCLUDES THAT THE IMPETUS OF CHRISTIANITY BEING THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN BIBLE IS FRAUGHT WITH FALSEHOODS AND CAN'T BE TRUSTED BECAUSE IT IS NOT WORTHY OF THE REAL TRUTH!!!
Brother. You may well have noticed that of late I have pointed to the fact a few times now that every time the apologists such as fauxlaw " Ya'll" attempt to rely on that good ole' favourite excuse that to understand scripture, one has to be a student of "original Greek", as fauxlaw "ya'll" claims to be..
"I, too, am a student of Greek,"#28
In my opinion, there are two things I find wrong with this pathetic excuse.
(1) This excuse, if it has any validity automatically renders the New Testament written in English unreliable , untrustworthy and totally unbelievable.
(2) When the student in the ancient Greek language is given the opportunity to translate a few words or verses into the ancient Greek language to make them understandable and to make sense of these contradictions, they fold immediately? Such as when I asked many times for a translation from a "student of the ancient Greek language, ya'll" here>>> and #32 And here>>>#34 and quite a few other places.
We see again that the opportunity has arisen on this thread for the student of ancient Greek to show us their Greek language skills. But do not hold your breath, Brother.
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You said "no show."
And so does the bible. HERE>>>. “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”2Peter 3:4
The bible at 2Peter 3:4 justified my question and my claim. You are on the ropes sunshine and have proven nothing.
oldest propaganda trick going
How do you keep missing this princess>
Peter, not to mention those that took him to task admitted that the Christ hadn't return and this is the reason he was forced to move the goal posts from " a generation " to a thousand years!<<<<< this is the "oldest propaganda trick" that has been peddled for TWO THOUSAND YEARS!!!!
And I see that you are still no closer to starting your own thread ..
I posted those links for you and you decided you didn't want to even look at them never mind debunk them.Indeed, your response to those links was to asked me " what am I supposed to do with them"?I told you then, ` do what you like' I am just showing you that the same verses can and are used to "prove" the opposite to what you claim`.I also said 'I don't care what you do with them or glean from them. It makes absolutely no difference to me.You post reems of links.
Nope, just two. And you ignored them and I don't care.
The facts are that this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Revelation 1:7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. " <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< did not and has not happened!
And neither has this >>>>>>>>>>>Acts 1:11 And said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”
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@Mandrakel
The Pope in typical Christian fashion also shown that the biblical goal posts can be moved any time the church feels like moving them. Not to mention moving what god himself has commanded. But I suppose he has to keep the "homosexual community" onside, doesn't he? We all know the feeling towards homosexuality in the Muslim world and the punishment . The punishment is the same in the bible, isn't it?Punishments change with the times but the crime doesn't.
I agree, but we are talking the unchangeable and unalterable word of god and his commandments aren't we? I refer to verses such as :
Deuteronomy 4:2ESV - "You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you".
And the punishment commanded for homosexuality is death , as much as Christians just love to play word games with the verse that commands this penalty.
Revelation - "if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book".
So it appears as I have pointed out, that the church can move the goal post when ever it feels like moving them.
But it shows the Pope is compassionate
I think he was being more diplomatic and politically correct and his comments had nothing to do with his "compassion". He was playing both sides of the fence. He chose his words carefully saying that homosexuality was " not ordered to the Creator’s plan.”... while not going so far as to say homosexuality is "abhorrent and an abomination to god", and never once mentioned the punishment commanded in the bible or by Allah. Leviticus 20:13>> " If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." <<< see that, not a word of about showing through compassion in the hope of rehabilitation. No, gods commands are crystal clear cut- he demands nothing short of "death".
This is the rod that Christians made for their own backs when they adopted a god from a time and culture they understood absolutely nothing about. These kind of 21st century social changes have, and will,keep popping up and Christians will make excuses for their gods commandment to the point of denying or even lying about what it is the bible actually does say and what god actually commands, hence the word play Christians use when discussing the punishment for homosexuality.
And, as we all know, the Muslims only copied what is true in the Bible.
They did in part as they did the Torah. But as for them "only copying what is true" can be argued until the day that I ride my next unicorn.
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@Bones
Just a few of the many contradictions from Jesus son of god himself, "ya'll"
Equal then not equal
John 10:30 " I and the Father are one".John 14:28 “ I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I" .
I judge then I don't judge
John 5:22 , 30. " Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son. By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just".John 8:15 " You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one.John 12:47 " I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
I am my own witness and it is true. Then It is not true.
John 8:14 “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going".John 5:31 “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.
Man is not my witness. Man is my witness .
John 33-34 “You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34 Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved.John 15:27 "And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.
Before the default excuse of "YA'LL" NEED TO BE SUDENTS OF GREEK, "YA'LL" is raised, let me draw your attention to the fact that these verses are all from the same gospel.
Context
And if they are not in "CONTEXT!" then anyone is welcome to put these contradictions into "CONTEXT! for us showing us all how they make perfect sense when they are read in "context" and in Greek, "Ya'll.
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