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@PGA2.0
You made a claim, "No show."And so does the bible HERE>>>. “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”2Peter 3:4that^^^^^^^ sounds like a no show to me sunshine.Repeat, repeat, repeat, without justification.The bible at 2Peter 3:4 justified my question and my claim. You are on the ropes sunshine and have proven nothing.Please note, reader, Stephen has not answered one of my questions yet again.
I have no need to answer your questions.
You ask questions in relation to the verses that you cherry pick from scripture to support your own outrageous claim that Jesus` corpse, after sinking and rotting in his grave for three days , rose from the dead and after ascending up into the sky to heaven into be "with his father" THEN ,decided to return back down earth and take part in the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66-70.
But, unfortunately for you, those very same cherry picked verses that you have chosen to support your claim that Jesus has already returned can be and are, also used to support the claim by millions of Christians that Jesus' return hasn't happened yet but is imminent.
I posted those links for you and you decided you didn't want to even look at them never mind debunk them. Indeed, your response to those links was to asked me " what am I supposed to do with them"? I told you then, ` do what you like' I am just showing you that the same verses can and are used to "prove" the opposite to what you claim` I also said 'I don't care what you do with them or glean from them. It makes absolutely no difference to me. .
Start your own thread sunshine, what are you afraid of?
PGA2.0, WHY ARE YOU SO SCARED TO START A THREAD ON THE EXACT TOPIC WHERE PRETERISTS BELIEVE JESUS ALREADY HAD HIS SECOND COMING IN AD 70?!Because ..............................That takes a big chunk out of my day. I do not have time to either prepare or respond at the moment to such a thread.
But you can find the time for debates that you brag about and find time to post reams upon reams of cherry picked verses from scripture on this thread alone.
Start a thread on your belief that Jesus has been and gone in AD 66-70 lets see how you do? You never know, you just may convince me? But as of this the moment, you have proven absolutely jack!
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@Castin
My personal belief is that Jesus died because he became a threat to the authorities of Palestine and Judea.
Sedition and rebellion.
- the messiah was never supposed to die.
Correct. And so proving that he could never have been the messiah prophesised about in the Old Testament as Christians will have us believe.
since it depicts a very human Jesus who does not sound at all god-like, I am inclined to believe Jesus may have actually said this on the cross in a moment of genuine doubt and abandonment. It's very sad.
Indeed it does.
Look, if the bible is to be believed at all on any level, then lives had already been saved , he had already, according to the bible, resurrected and saved "dead " people. He had also already been "forgiving" people all over the place, too. The story is a nonsense that falls flat simply because Jesus' own actions prove it to be nonsense.He had been forgiving individuals, but not everyone.
When he could have just forgiven everyone. Just as he could have cured blindness instead of just one blind man. Or eradicated leprosy instead of just a few lepers. Do you see the nonsense this all makes of the scriptures?
His death on the cross was supposed to be for everyone, or so Christians believe.
Well I have done that one point to death. Jesus, again , in his own words tells us that came to unite and rule over the "lost sheep of Israel ONLY". And they would have been Jews, like himself, Christians simply cannot accept this very clear fact.
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@Mandrakel
But it shows the Pope is compassionate because we should help these people help themselves so that they can become normal again.
The Pope in typical Christian fashion also shown that the biblical goal posts can be moved any time the church feels like moving them. Not to mention moving what god himself has commanded. But I suppose he has to keep the "homosexual community" onside, doesn't he?
Did god show any compassion when he decided to wipe Sodom and Gomorrah of the map?
I found it more interesting that the Popes ruling comes just days after the Popes return from visit to Iraq. Pope Francis, is the first sitting pope to visit Iraq (the land of those iniquitous cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, of Abraham and Lot) attended a meeting in the wilderness with the powerful, Shiite Muslim religious cleric Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani.
We all know the feeling towards homosexuality in the Muslim world and the punishment . The punishment is the same in the bible, isn't it?
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@Castin
“Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” (Luke 23:34). Amazing isn't it. Jesus asks god to forgive his mockers and persecutors. Why? Why didn't Jesus himself forgive them as he had been forgiving others including those that hung by his side!?Jesus seems to be at his most human on the cross, and at his most separate from God -- hence his crying out, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
Indeed,its very human trait to have doubt isn't it?
Some Christians interpret God as having to turn away from Jesus in this moment
Does the bible suggest he "turned away" from god? Or is that Jesus was a man that had lost faith in what he had been believing in, as many very human beings do when sadness and sorrow and hopelessness enters their lives. I personnel believe it was a plot that was almost fatal and he was lucky to survive the stunt.
because Jesus had taken on the sins of humanity on the cross -- meaning Jesus would not have had his forgive-y powers because he was disconnected from God.
All assumption Castin. The bible shows that there was absolutely no reason for a blood sacrifice for forgiveness. Jesus died for sedition and not for some benevolent and selfless act of forgiving and "saving" the whole of making .
Look, if the bible is to be believed at all on any level, then lives had already been saved , he had already, according to the bible, resurrected and saved "dead " people. He had also already been "forgiving" people all over the place, too. The story is a nonsense that falls flat simply because Jesus' own actions prove it to be nonsense.
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@BrotherDThomas
PGA2.0, WHY ARE YOU SO SCARED TO START A THREAD ON THE EXACT TOPIC WHERE PRETERISTS BELIEVE JESUS ALREADY HAD HIS SECOND COMING IN AD 70?!PGA2.0, don't you realize that the membership and Jesus are watching you RUN AWAY from doing this simple request, like FAUXLAW equally runs away from substantiated biblical axioms, huh? You are the continued Bible fool when you run away in "trying" to defend your faith, which is obviously in the name of Satan!
Because when challenged his argument falls flat. There is no way on this earth that he can prove that Jesus' dead and rotten stinking corpse rose from the grave/tomb and was in Jerusalem in AD 66-70 in the flesh or in spirit. No matter how many times he stamps his feet and demands that I listen to his shite.
Preterists, just like all Christian factions,do not even agree with one another upon which date the second coming was supposed to have occurred!.
He cannot seem to get it past his skull bone that the bible makes the claim that Jesus did not return when he said he would. And that MILLIONS of Christian around the world also do not believe Jesus has ready returned. They though, do believe his return is imminent.
There are plenty of members here that don't believe that Jesus's "second coming" has already occurred and the only reason they haven't weighed in on the argument is because they wouldn't agree with me openly even if I paid them to. But I don't need them to , Brother.
I will give the preterist one thing though Brother. Like me they put Jesus in Jerusalem 70 AD and well after his supposed death.. the difference being I don't believe that he ever did die in the first place.
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You made a claim, "No show."And so does the bible HERE>>>. “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”2Peter 3:4that^^^^^^^ sounds like a no show to me sunshine.Repeat, repeat, repeat, without justification.
The bible at 2Peter 3:4 justified my question and my claim. You are on the ropes sunshine and have proven nothing.
oldest propaganda trick going
You must have missed this princess>
Peter, not to mention those that took him to task admitted that the Christ hadn't return and this is the reason he was forced to move the goal posts from " a generation " to a thousand years!<<<<< this is the "oldest propaganda trick" that has been peddled for TWO THOUSAND YEARS!!!!
And I see that you are still no closer to starting your own thread ..
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@Outplayz
Stephen, my dude... you know the Bible infinitely more than i do... i don't even believe Jesus is real. I'd have to read it again and see how i interpret the stuff in the Bible.. but the Bible is so boring so please don't make me research.
I am not asking you to or making you do anything. But it helps if you knew a little about what your commenting on before commenting.
This was interesting from you:
i don't even believe Jesus is real.
I believe a Jesus existed and that he believed he was rightful heir to the throne of David. Or those that put him forward for the job did. I don't believe he was a son of a god in the silly biological sense that Christians believe and will have us believe. Being called "son of god" is/was nothing more that a title. Emperor means exactly the same thing. The whole nation of Israel were called sons of god HERE> Exodus 4:22. King Solomon was a "son of god", I Chronicles 22:9-10 , David was " a son of god"Psalms 2:7
but these are the little facts that Christian elders and Christians on this forum wish to keep from their flock.
but the Bible is so boring
Christians rely on people just like you that don't read the bible for themselves "because it is boring". They rely on people just like you for a living. They can guide their congregations to what verses they should turn to. Have the verse read out-loud to them and then have it all explained to them in one fashion or another. The explanation will change from Pastor to Pastor, from Priest to Priest and Chaplain to Chaplain. For most of the time they are "just passing on" what they have been taught or heard.
Read this from the horses mouth>>#20 " in most parts are merely passing on the teaching of what i have received."<<< those are the words of a fully trained and educated Pastor and Chaplain on this forum, who is also a lawyer and trained in many languages that teaches at universities. I have shown him that he doesn't know his scripture too.
But what they also do is steer the congregation away from the more problematic, contradictory and ambiguous verses that they cannot explain away with nothing other than " god works in mysterious ways".
Do you believe that all the money for all of those beautifully designed gothic and medieval churches came from god? Donations for forgiveness was thought up by priests not gods.
The point of this thread was to show that the idea that a blood sacrifice was need is proven by the bible itself to be bullshite.
You may have missed this>.
I have mentioned a few times now that it was never a case that Jesus came to die for our forgiveness that we may live and dwell in "paradise/heaven". But like many claims made by Christians the bible has it own way of debunking what they claim and believe.
First of all Jesus claims that he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel. Matthew 15:24. These would be the 12 Jewish tribes that made up Israel, gods " son". Exodus 4:22 and not some tribe from a remote island in the Pacific or South American rain forest.
No, we are talking Palestine in the time of the failed messiah Jesus, also known as - the Christ. And, it appears that Jesus was very much alive and well,and not dead or even resurrected when he started going around forgiving people at will, and the bible makes this clear. And the bible always has a knack for contradicting what later Christians come believe without reason.
The bible clearly states that Jesus said to people "your sins are forgiven". Example Mark 2:5 to the paralysed man ; "“Son, your sins are forgiven.” see also Matthew 9:4-7
This was blasphemy according to the priesthood , "He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” Mark 2:7. Jesus 's response to this charge comes via Mark 2:10
"the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins": and we can see from this that Jesus it appears was forgiving people on a regular basis.
The priesthood had notched up another charge to level against him but non the less, Jesus carried on going around just forgiving people all over the place and even while he hung on the cross, which is interesting for another reasons when we take the time to read the words Jesus is said to have actually spoke:
“Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” (Luke 23:34). Amazing isn't it. Jesus asks god to forgive his mockers and persecutors. Why? Why didn't Jesus himself forgive them as he had been forgiving others including those that hung by his side!?
Anyway, regardless. Jesus, the BIBLE states , was forgiving people even before he was arrested and crucified showing that there was absolute no reason for a blood sacrifice to forgive sins..
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@BrotherDThomas
Stephen; YOUR ONCE AGAIN REVEALING OXYMORONIC QUOTE: “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” (Luke 23:34). Amazing isn't it. Jesus asks god to forgive his mockers and persecutors."
Which begs the question why didn't Jesus forgive his persecutors and mockers when he had been forgiving people right up to almost the point of his own death.. It is simply preposterous to say that he, Jesus son of a man, had all of a sudden lost his " authority" to forgive them himself.
The problem with myself in having to accept that Jesus is the serial killer Yahweh God incarnate, then relating to your statement above, when Jesus said "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing" postulates that Jesus was literally talking to Himself as God! It's like Jesus saying: "Hello God, its me, you!"
That was the other point to my post. Why was god asking god - himself- to forgive his mockers and persecutors?
As if the dumbfounded of the Bible pseudo-christians like FAUXLAW, PGA2.0, ETERNLVW, et al weren't enough to contend with within this forum, then we have to try and decipher situations of Jesus being God, the Son of Himself, and the Holy Ghost being the aforementioned two, AND to try and remain intelligent looking in the aftermath.
Yes well, it's all Greek to me , Brother.
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@PGA2.0
You made a claim, "No show."
And so does the bible HERE>>>. “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”2Peter 3:4
that^^^^^^^ sounds like a no show to me sunshine.
oldest propaganda trick going
You must have missed this princess>
Peter, not to mention those that took him to task admitted that the Christ hadn't return and this is the reason he was forced to move the goal posts from " a generation " to a thousand years!<<<<< this is the "oldest propaganda trick" that has been peddled for TWO THOUSAND YEARS!!!!
And I see that you are still no closer to starting your own thread ..
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I have mentioned a few times now that it was never a case that Jesus came to die for our forgiveness that we may live and dwell in "paradise/heaven". But like many claims made by Christians the bible has it own way of debunking what they claim and believe.
First of all Jesus claims that he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel. Matthew 15:24. These would be the 12 Jewish tribes that made up Israel, gods " son". Exodus 4:22 and not some tribe from a remote island in the Pacific or South American rain forest.
No, we are talking Palestine in the time of the failed messiah Jesus, also known as - the Christ. And, it appears that Jesus was very much alive and well,and not dead or even resurrected when he started going around forgiving people at will, and the bible makes this clear. And the bible always has a knack for contradicting what later Christians come believe without reason.
The bible clearly states that Jesus said to people "your sins are forgiven". Example Mark 2:5 to the paralysed man ; "“Son, your sins are forgiven.” see also Matthew 9:4-7
This was blasphemy according to the priesthood , "He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” Mark 2:7. Jesus 's response to this charge comes via Mark 2:10
"the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins": and we can see from this that Jesus it appears was forgiving people on a regular basis.
The priesthood had notched up another charge to level against him but non the less, Jesus carried on going around just forgiving people all over the place and even while he hung on the cross, which is interesting for another reasons when we take the time to read the words Jesus is said to have actually spoke:
“Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” (Luke 23:34). Amazing isn't it. Jesus asks god to forgive his mockers and persecutors. Why? Why didn't Jesus himself forgive them as he had been forgiving others including those that hung by his side!?
Anyway, regardless. Jesus, the BIBLE states , was forgiving people even before he was arrested and crucified showing that there was absolute no reason for a blood sacrifice to forgive sins..
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Please note anyone reading this thread, Stephen seldom does any expounding on texts/verses I issue, he just moves on to his next pet verses and talking point because he is unable.The texts contradict what he is preaching.I haven't had to move on anything at all. And the BIBLICAL text agree with me.Not at all. You fail to identify how the Father came in His glory in the OT. [....................................]oldest propaganda trick going
No. No. No! You have to admit that even Peter, not to mention those that took him to task admitted that the Christ hadn't return and this is the reason he was forced to move the goal posts from " a generation " to a thousand years!<<<<< this is the "oldest propaganda trick" that has been peddled for TWO THOUSAND YEARS!!!!
And I see that you are still no closer to starting your own thread ..
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Please note anyone reading this thread, Stephen seldom does any expounding on texts/verses I issue, he just moves on to his next pet verses and talking point because he is unable.The texts contradict what he is preaching.
I haven't had to move on anything at all. And the BIBLICAL text agree with me.
You believe you have proved something i.e. that Jesus kept his promise and has returned. You haven't provided a single piece of proof to support your claim. The bible also says he didn't return when he promised to return..
Jesus promised that some of those hearing his promise to return and a generation would NOT pass away BEFORE witnessing his return.
>>>>>“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”. Matthew16: 27-28.
THE BIBLE shows this didn't happen. HERE>>>
2Peter 3:4 “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”
So Peter, the biblically PROVEN unreliable and untrustworthy lying turncoat and betrayer and apologists Peter, thought up this piece of bullshit?
" But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 2 Peter3:8.
AND ACCORDING TO MILLIONS OF CHRSITIANS HE HASN'T RETURNED YET EITHER. !!!!!
What ever is the matter with you man.? Are the scriptures so unreliable that YOU say he has returned while millions of Christians say he has not BUT, his return is imminent!!!?
You can go around in circles for as long as you like but you have much proving to do to debunk those millions of Christians AND THE BIBLE that Jesus has already returned.
In Post 96, he ignored my points and Scripture, just moved on as usual.
They wasn't points. They were unreliable verses from the same unreliable source that prove nothing. And I haven't had to move on at all. Those verses that show Jesus didn't return when he promised are still there proving MY case while debunking yours. Get over it princess. If the bible is the word of god you have to accept it, contradictions an'all.
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@BrotherDThomas
Well how about this for a perfect example of rendering the Christian New Testament in English useless and unreliable and therefore pointless as any kind of proof of anything concerning the Christ or god when that good ole' favourite "Greek card" is played. , Brother? They are really good at shooting themselves in the foot , I'll give em' that, "ya'all".
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@secularmerlin
@Outplayz
Outplayz wrote: Jesus dying for everyone is a pretty iron clad way to prove he died for everyone.
No it isn't. And if any of the scripture is to be believed then Jesus came ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel . Not England or Wales or Scotland or the natives of Papua New Guinea or the Aborigines of Australia.
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@PGA2.0
. You do not understand the spiritual.
I see. So you are now flipping everything from the factual to the " only spiritual". So where is the " peace on earth" , that is to be ushered in? Where is the " relief from sickness and starvation for the people of the earth"? Will that only be happening in the world of spirits too? Like Peter, Your are full of shite and I keep telling you; that cherry picked verses to suit your belief, already returned Christ, do not make..
Your own bible tells us that he hadn't returned by the time "this generation had passed" as he promised.
And when the population started to wake up realising there had been no return as promised because the people of the time of THE promise HAD DIED and nothing had changes and all was it was as before, they confronted Peter about it Here>>>
2Peter 3:4 “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”
So Peter, the biblically PROVEN unreliable and untrustworthy lying turncoat and betrayer and apologists Peter thought up this piece of bullshit?
" But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 2 Peter3:8.
There is no getting away from it. Your boy failed on his promise and the people of the time hadn't forgot either. They understood this promise and when it was supposed to be fulfilled , much more than YOU and other Preterists would ever know. You make it up as you go as do many other Christians when trying to explain away the anomalous, ambiguous stories and sayings that make up these unreliable scriptures.
You post thread after thread that ad hominem Christians and mock Christianity, calling us stupid ...
There are millions of Christians that believe the second coming of Jesus is imminent, are they stupid?
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@Outplayz
So if Jesus meant what he said,And what was it that Jesus actually said about dying for our "forgiveness"?I'm not sure, can you please elucidate?
Well you have said " so if Jesus meant what he said". I am simply asking you what it is that you believe he said? We are talking about a blood sacrifice for forgiveness.
I'm sure it's different in the Bible...
What is different in the bible?
I wouldn't be surprised if there is a contradiction to how i'm thinking of it.
Well, Jesus in the bible says nothing concerning coming to earth to pay a blood sacrifice for our forgiveness. Does it?
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@Polytheist-Witch
It's in the script. Read a different one and he didn't.
I don't think it is is the scrip at all. I have read nowhere in the bible where Jesus says that he was sent to pay a ransom and must die that we may be forgiven.
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@ EtrnlVw,
yep, straight back to the reading comprehension issues.
It's always the other bloke with you lot. fkn hilarious.
@ EtrnlVwI'm not going to entertain your silly questions with your motive of just trying to trick idiots .............
Which "idiots"are those then?
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@coal
Vaccine Passports
I am in no way religious but this sounds all very " mark of the best to me"
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@janesix
Honestly I don't see the point of this exercise. Why make things up, how we would prefer it? It's hard enough trying to figure out what's going on in the first place.
A+1
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@ EtrnlVw
You have made so many contradictions in your op, and in the first two paragraphs in particular. It is difficult to know where to start.
Just one example; you say:
"..............we all know what everyone dislikes about religion and concepts about God, the Bible, moral ideologies, laws, rules and so forth. For this topic I would like to reach beyond all of that baloney. "
and then we a right back to god and the concepts of god:
"Lets say we all know we originate with God, and we are all free to engage creation as we so wish, free to depict God as we see is fair."
What happened to forgetting all that baloney? And which parts " about religion and concepts about God" do you consider to be baloney? Or is that part simply directed towards the " the easily tricked idiots" you mentioned earlier?#39
You will be pleased to know that I'll give it a miss for now.
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Again, you don't understand the covenant Israel made with God,
And again you have ignored what was expected from the promised messiah as prophesised in the Old Testament that you cannot help but keep referring to.
Here, let me list again some of those requirements that were prophesised in the Old Testament about the promised "messiah" according to YOU! Christians.
Now if as you say Jesus the Messiah had returned in AD 66_70 , then he also failed again to fulfill those prophesies. Lets have a quick look at a few of them shall we?
Isaiah 43:5-6. Gathering all the diaspora (scattered)Jews from around the globe back to Jerusalem. FAIL! And failed twice if you are to be believed.
Zechariah 14:9 The god of the Hebrews will be followed universally uniting humanity as one. FAIL! And failed twice if you are to be believed.
Isaiah 2:4 Usher in a world peace, ending all suffering oppression and illnesses. FAIL! And failed twice if you are to be believed.
Ezekiel 37:26-28 Build a third temple. FAIL! And failed twice if you are to be believed.
The evidence is in my favour, not yours.
Only in that tiny pea of yours, princess. There are millions of Christians, not to mention atheists, that disagree with you and they can also produce just as many if not more biblical verses that "prove" Jesus has not returned yet but his presence is imminent".
And to clear up your view of what I said, He was crucified, died, rose again from the dead three days later, spent 40 days with the disciples, then ascended into heaven to be with the Father and returned in judgment 40 years later on these OT people.
Yes I understand your claim. I don't believe it. And neither do millions of Christians around the world. Are they stupid for believing Jesus` return is imminent NOW!!! ?
You post thread after thread that ad hominem Christians and mock Christianity, calling us stupid ...
There are millions of Christians that believe the second coming of Jesus is imminent, are they stupid?
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@BrotherDThomas
Stephen,YOUR QUOTE: "I am far too lazy at the moment to put up the verses that prove them all wrong concerning that false claim of "free will", Brother."The only two of MANY passages supporting the biblical axiom that pseudo-christians DO NOT have free will, whereas the stupefied of the Bible FAUXLAW says that pseudo-christians do have free will, are as follows:
“In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will." (Ephesians 1:11) Key phrase: "having been predestined" and according to the purpose of Jesus and His will, pseudo-christians do not have free will, period!"The lot is cast into the lap, but it's every decision is from the Lord." (Proverbs 16:33). EVERY decision in what happens to one's life, is determined by Jesus, period!As I have stated towards the Bible ignorant fool FAUXLAW, he is guilty of the following passage relative to the topic at hand: "Only a simpleton would not know, and only a fool would not understand this:". (Psalm 92:6)
Yep. That's them.
Stephen, what comical run away excuse will FAUXLAW use this time regarding my post #57 above? Time will tell! LOL
Well it will any one of the billion excuses they throw up when caught displaying their own bible ignorance. They never fail. I am sure the student of "Greek" excuse will raise it head sooner rather than later, Brother. Indeed it is the only excuse that the faux Christian fauxlaw ever uses aside that most common excuse "context"!
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@Outplayz
So if Jesus meant what he said,
And what was it that Jesus actually said about dying for our "forgiveness"?
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@BrotherDThomas
we do not have free will, whereas he says through his outright Bible stupidity, that we do have free will, NOT!
Well he is wrong as both you and I that know this is an extremely false claim that is never supported , backed-up or proven by those that make this false claim. It is a cop-out for them when they are on the backfoot and have painted themselves into a tight theological corner, Brother.
Indeed, the excuse of "free will" is not even supported by scripture. Quite the opposite, scripture is clear in any language - including Greek - that we do not have free will . And I am sure that I do not have to point out those biblical verses that make it perfectly clear that we, as gods creations and everything we do, everything we say is by the will of god, if the scriptures are to be believed.
I am far too lazy at the moment to put up the verses that prove them all wrong concerning that false claim of "free will", Brother.
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@ EtrnlVw,
it's not you trying to manipulate the discussion.
What discussion? There is hardly any need or room for discussion when one asks for a simply yes or no answers as you have done. Is there? <<<that is a yes or no question.
" LOL! ". I don't know of many "deep questions" that only require or can be answered with simple yes or no answers.That's because you lack creativity and depth. Here, I'll spit out a few just to give you some ideas....Do you like being God? [Yes]Do you desire to be anything but God? [No]Are you content? [Yes]Do you co-exist with energy? [No]Do other entities exist within our physical universe? [Yes]Are you and each soul one and the same? [No]Is eternity independent of linear time? [No]Will I always exist? [No]Do you want to exist? [Yes]Does anything matter? [Yes]Do you like religion? [No]Are you lonely? [No]Do you dream? [No]Are your dreams and creativity fulfilled? [Yes}Are you pleased with your creations? [No]Will you recreate forever? [No]Is creation your only outlet as an expression? [No]Is everything in creation an illusion? [No]Have I always existed? [No]Will I be able to fulfill my created purpose? [Yes]Am I fulfilling my purpose in any way? [Yes]Have I made any positive impact in your creation? [No}Do you experience love or hate? [No]Do you feel anything? [No]Is nonexistence an option? [No]
What is deep about those? . They simply require yes or no answers.. If that is the limit of the depth of question that you can muster to ask you favourite being then is it any wonder that you have been led by the hooter all of your life.
You sound like a fawning teenage schoolgirl phoning in to her favourite Saturday morning tv show to ask her favourite popstar of the day what kind of pizza does he like. "LOL"
Why did god even bother creating anything at all in the first place?The answer goes back to the very nature of consciousness (which is the fundamental core of both God and the soul). The very nature of consciousness will always seek to express itself in some way and creativity is the main form in which that plays out. One way to answer fundamental questions about consciousness is to look within and ask yourself the same question.....why would I create anything in the first place?
Strawman. I wasn't asking you about conciseness now was I? And I didn't ask you why "you" would create anything in the first place? I was asking you why god even bothered to create anything at all , ever in the first place. I want a reason why. And you don't have one.
and you didn't answer this question either;
@ EtrnlVwI'm not going to entertain your silly questions with your motive of just trying to trick idiots .............
Which "idiots"are those then?
ask yourself the same question.....
No. I am asking you why god created anything at all in the first place. It is obviously a far too deep question for you to handle. You best stick with the TV phone in. "LOL"
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@zedvictor4
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@ EtrnlVw,
Lol well I was thinking you were going to have a series of really deep questions.
" LOL! ". I don't know of many "deep questions" that only require or can be answered with simple yes or no answers.
But is this deep enough for you. Why did god even bother creating anything at all in the first place?
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@ EtrnlVwI'm not going to entertain your silly questions with your motive of just trying to trick idiots .............
Which "idiots"are those then?
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@BrotherDThomas
OMG, where do Jesus and I start? LOL! You stated that you answered some questions because you were asked "politely," but in return, you impolitely stated that Steve is not worthy of discussion, had reading comprehension issues, in being an ass, having silly questions, and tricking "idiots" into nonsensical games, whereas you admit IDIOTS are you. Priceless deduction!
You beat me to it , Brother. Hypocrite doesn't begin to cover it does it.
I asked one simple yes no question as per theme of thread . Nothing more nothing less.
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@BrotherDThomas
Stephen,I think we discussed this matter a while back, where I proposed that Jesus really didn't die to begin with.
We have and I agree. But there are millions of people that call themselves Christians that don't agree and from their stand point,Brother, they seem to accept that a blood sacrifice was needed in order to forgive us our sins.
What I have had to accept as a TRUE Christian, is the Biblical FACT that when Jesus was raised from His 3 day tomb nap in a Zombie form, He therefore really didn't DIE for our sins because He came back to life, and to be a true sacrifice, you have to remain DEAD!
I agree brother. I believe Jesus survived the cross and have said so many times.
............arose on the third day of dying on the cross, which is hardly a true sacrifice.
Correct, hardly giving ones life if you haven't actually give your life , is it , Brother?
Whereas, we can only wonder in how our US soldiers would have wanted the same situation to come back to life after they were killed in WW2 fighting for the USA, where this is a TRUE SACRIFICE, period!
That truly is.
Bottom line, JESUS DID NOT DIE in the true sense of the term to be a sacrifice, therefore He didn't die for our sins! 2+2=4, oil and water don't mix, and Christians still have our sins, period!
Well I would still like an explanation for why Christians believe the blood sacrifice was required to forgive us our sins.
In Mark 3:31 we hear from Jesus saying;
" Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed .....", .....but leaves out why he "must"?
How does one person dying for the forgiveness of others actually work? Why did god demand the blood sacrifice in the first place?
I personally believe all this to be a big lie and also I believe the blood sacrifice was not at all needed and is a complete fabrication made up by the biblical authors and Christians. I also believe the bible itself proves that a sacrifice wasn't needed and that it was not a case that anyone "must " die either,: such is the contradictory nature of these unreliable scriptures.
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@Outplayz
[....] if i knew i would die saving someone, but still did it... that means i "truly" love that person.
I am sure most people would without thinking but I don't think love comes into it, do you really love the complete stranger that you have just saved from drowning?
But this thread is about Jesus and the need for a blood sacrifice in order for our forgiveness where don't see there is any need whatsoever for anyone to die. And oddly enough,the bible in part appears to agree with me.
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@FLRW
@Intelligence_06
You are both preaching to the converted.
I was hoping someone could give me a real reason why Jesus had to die for us to have forgiveness from the theist perspective.
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@Intelligence_06
Christianity only became popular after some Roman monarch said he’d believe in it.
Yep. I know. Milvian Bridge ect etc
I want to know why Jesus, it is said, had to pay for our forgiveness with his life?
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......it simply makes no sense!
This is a question that has niggled at me for years but I have never once read a convincing answer explaining why he had to die ?
By all accounts it stems back to the Garden of Eden and "original sin", but this doesn't explain why Jesus had to die for forgiveness our sins.
God- being god could just as well have said - `ok Stephen all that was in the past and you are no more responsible for what those pair - Adam & Eve -did back at the beginning no more than you are responsible for the slave trade that I am still allowing to happen over a quarter of the globe' , - but he didn't. Why?.
Odd it is that he was making "new" covenants every once in a while but never included a pardon for the past.
We are called to "wash away our sins" by John the Baptist yet when we undergo this ritual, we , it seems, still need a man to then suffer and die for our forgiveness for sins that have already been "washed away" in the baptism ritual.
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@eventuality001
So the Jewish leaders simply replied to him or responded to him by accusing him of being possessed by an adversarial spirit.
Like I have said. Being "possessed" in those ancient time could mean a number of things. I have listed a few on this thread, including being ill, disagreeing, going against the grain or upsetting the status quo. It doesn't mean that one has been over taken by an evil entity.
Being "possessed" was the idiom of the day. It is used today too. i.e - "whatever possessed you to do that"?
For instance: look at all these different versions of the same single verse and how the word demon/ possessed interchanges and is used along side the words insane/mad/out of his mind/crazy and lost his senses.
All the same verse>>John 10:20
Some said, “He’s demon possessed and out of his mind. Why listen to a man like that?”
Many of them said, “He is demon-possessed and insane. Why would you listen to Him?”
And many of them were saying, "He has a demon and is insane. Why do you listen to Him?"
And many of them said, “He has a demon and is mad. Why do you listen to Him?”
And many of them were saying, “He has a demon and is insane. Why do you listen to Him?”
Many of them said, “He has a demon and He is mad [insane—He raves and rambles]. Why listen to Him?”
Many of them were saying, “He has a demon and he’s crazy. Why do you listen to him? ”
Many of them were saying, "He has a demon and He's crazy! Why do you listen to Him?"
Many of them were saying, "He has a demon! He is crazy! Why do you listen to him?"
Many of them said, "He's possessed by a demon! He's crazy! Why do you listen to him?"
Many of them were saying, "He has a demon and is insane. Why bother listening to him?"
Many of them were saying, "He is possessed by a demon and has lost his mind! Why do you listen to him?"
Many of them said, "He is possessed by a demon and is mad. Why do you listen to him?"
Many of them said, "He has a demon, and is insane! Why do you listen to him?"
and many of them said, 'He hath a demon, and is mad, why do ye hear him?'
And let us not forget, that even Jesus' own mother believed him to be “He is out of His mind.” and to have "lost his senses" thought " he was crazy" " become mad" and on it goes.here>>.
all the same verse>>
Mark 3:21
When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."
When his family heard what was happening, they tried to take him away. “He’s out of his mind,” they said.
And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for they were saying, “He is out of his mind.”
When His family heard about this, they went out to take custody of Him, saying, “He is out of His mind.”
And those belonging to Him having heard, went out to seize Him; for they were saying, "He is out of His mind."
And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.
But when His own people heard about this, they went out to lay hold of Him, for they said, “He is out of His mind.”
And when His own people heard about this, they came out to take custody of Him; for they were saying, “He has lost His senses.”
When His own people heard of this, they went out to take custody of Him; for they were saying, "He has lost His senses."
And when His own people heard of this, they went out to take custody of Him; for they were saying, “He has lost His senses.”
When His own family heard this they went to take custody of Him; for they were saying, “He is out of His mind.”
When his family heard this, they set out to restrain him, because they said, “He’s out of his mind.”
When His family heard this, they set out to restrain Him, because they said, "He's out of His mind."
And when his friends heard it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.
When Jesus' family heard what he was doing, they thought he was crazy and went to get him under control.
And when his friends had heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him. For they said: He is become mad.
And when his friends heard it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.
When his family heard about it, they set out to take charge of him, because people were saying, "He's gone mad!"
When his family heard about it, they went to get him. They said, "He's out of his mind!"
When his family heard about it, they went to restrain him, because they kept saying, "He's out of his mind!"
and those alongside Him having heard, went forth to lay hold on Him, for they said that He was beside Himself,
When his family heard this they went out to restrain him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."
And when his family heard it, they went out to take charge of him: for they said, "He is out of his mind."
Hearing of this, His relatives came to seize Him by force, for they said, "He is out of his mind."
When his friends heard it, they went out to seize him: for they said, "He is insane."
and his friends having heard, went forth to lay hold on him, for they said that he was beside himself
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-->@EtrnlVw wrote:If you could ask any questions that would require a yes or no, what questions would you ask God?
The simple yes or no challenge didn't get far past the first fence , did it?
Lets see . Of the 36 posts made here thus far, there are actually only FIVE questions posed that require simple yes/no answers.
Yet our contrary author chooses to approach only those questions that do not require a simple yes or no answer..
Is it that questions requiring yes or no answers are far too difficult for god ......................and theists, yes or no?
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@PGA2.0
I see that you are still no closer to creating a thread of your own and your belief that Jesus has already kept his promise and did so - according to only you - in fact return in AD 66-70. Its probably just as wise not to, considering that you have offered nothing in the way of proof on my thread.
How often do I have to explain to you that quoting cherry picked unreliable verse from the same unreliable ambiguous scripture do not serve as any kind of proof that Jesus returned from the dead and was alive in in AD 66-70? and neither does making up bullshit about the works of Flavius Josephus which I have read and studied in its entirety. It a brilliant piece of work thanks to the Romans that patronised it.
or your purpose is to deceive others due to your great bias and hatred of Christianity.
How can I deceive others? I simply scrutinise and ask questions about the scriptures and quote scripture verbatim!
So Let me just remind you of a few things, shall I? The Messiah as promised, ( in this case Jesus) didn't achieve a single thing that was prophesied he was supposed to achieve while he was alive. Now, the usual christian apologetic excuse for this miserable failure to fulfill the prophesies was because "all this was to be achieved in the second coming".
Now if as you say Jesus the Messiah had returned in AD 66_70 , then he also failed again to fulfill those prophesies. Lets have a quick look at a few of them shall we?
Isaiah 43:5-6. Gathering all the diaspora (scattered)Jews from around the globe back to Jerusalem. FAIL! And failed twice if you are to be believed.
Zechariah 14:9 The god of the Hebrews will be followed universally uniting humanity as one. FAIL! And failed twice if you are to be believed.
Isaiah 2:4 Usher in a world peace, ending all suffering oppression and illnesses. FAIL! And failed twice if you are to be believed.
Ezekiel 37:26-28 Build a third temple. FAIL! And failed twice if you are to be believed.
The messiah or as the Jews have it the "Mashiach" is anointed into the service of god to do gods work and part of that work was to achieve all of the above . And he failed. Just like you have failed to prove anything you have claimed.
And as far as I remember reading, some 200 out of the 613 mitzvot (commandments) in the Jews bible or Torah cannot be performed without a Temple. I believe I have also read that the Jews in Israel today have all the stones cut and ready to put in place when the Jewish messiah arrives- he hasn't arrived yet you see. And they should know, being Jews as was Jesus.
If anyone achieved anything or part of the OT prophesise it was Polish Jew David Ben-Gurion,1886 _ 1973 who played a massive part in the re-establishment of the State of Israel in 1948..
how well you ignore what Scripture teaches.
Nope. that will be you sunshine. I too could do the same the shows he hasn't and didn't. In fact I quoted one particular verse that clearly shows that there had been no"falling away" or great apostacy but a giant surge in Jew and christian populations since AD 66. Although Christianity, I believe has had its day and is on the way out. Maybe we are in the end times right now?
Or your purpose is to deceive others due to your great bias and hatred of Christianity.
Well, that is just your opinion of me. It counts for nothing and it is wrong. I don't care if there is or is not a god. I don't care that you have a belief. Christianity affects my life in absolutely any way and neither do Christians.
What does interest me , indeed fascinate me, are the scriptures and the New Testament in particular.
So it is what you have faith IN that I am scrutinizing and questioning and it seems to be getting right up your hooter.
I have said many times now that I personally believe that there is an underlying story to these scriptures that slowly reveals itself once the surface has been tested and scratched . And certainly a different story entirely to the bullshit that you like to preach and teach and "merely pass on".
You don't know what "the falling away" is?
Oh but I do, and it didn't happen after the fall of Jerusalem in AD70. I have said, I believe there is a "great falling away" going on right now, within the Christian churches especially in the western world. In fact I created a thread dedicated to the great falling away, with clear supporting statistical evidence here>>
Christianity won't be # 1 much longer.
[h] There is a distinction between full preterism and partial preterism. A full preterist agrees that all of Scripture has been fulfilled and can give such beliefs a good reason
Of course there is dear. Of course there is. Just like there are Christians that believe only some of the bible and some believe it in its entirety.
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@BrotherDThomas
- However, Irenaeus who claimed the book of Revelation was written at the close of the reign of Domitian ( A.D. 81—96) and Victorinus confirmed this date in the third century, as did Eusebius (263-340), then since the book was written AFTER AD 70, it could hardly have been referring to events that would be fulfilled in A.D. 70! 2+2=4. oil and water don't mix, and the Satanic Preterist fool PGA2.0 continues the fraud of his faith!
It is for facts such as those you mention above and the one I have mentioned that I was hoping PGA2.0 would indeed create his own thread explaining to myself and the rest of Christendom all about Jesus' return in AD 66-70 and his role in the fall of Jerusalem.
Did you read that other biblical/Josephus coincidence that I alluded to earlier , Brother?#66
You may have missed it as PGA2.0 buried it rather quickly under a pile of irrelevant nonsense.
Just in case you missed it:
Brother, through all of your years of dogged bible and religious study and years of religious training and preaching do you recall reading that other extremely coincidental story left to us from the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus concerning three of his friends? I know you are a busy man so please allow me to remind you.
“And when I was sent by Titus Caesar with Cerealins, and a thousand horsemen, to a certain village called Thecoa, in order to know whether it were a place fit for a camp, as
I came back, I saw many captives crucified, and remembered three of them as my former acquaintance.
I was very sorry at this in my mind, and went with tears in my eyes to Titus, and told him of them; so he immediately commanded them to betaken down, and to have the greatest care taken of them, in order to their recovery; yet two of them died under the physician's hands,while the third recovered”.
So here above Josephus asked Titus in person to have his friends taken down and spared, this was when Vespasian was Emperor. Now we read from John’s gospel;
“And after this Joseph of Arimathea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus:and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus”. John 19:38-42.KJV
But this ` coincidental ' story doesn't end there. If you recall Brother, the two brigands hanging next to the biblical Jesus at his crucifixion didn't make it either but Jesus, just as with Josephus' friend, recovered too.
What do you think Brother? What an amazing coincidence, eh!!!!?
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@BrotherDThomas
PGA2.0, the Satanic "Preterist" rewriter of the Bible at the cost of calling Jesus a LIAR, therefore committing the Unpardonable Sin!: [......................]START THE THREAD, OR ACCEPT THE FACT THAT STEPHEN OWNS YOU UPON THIS TOPIC,
He won't be doing that anytime soon I'm afraid, Brother. For all of his whining and moaning and posting reams upon reams of biblical verses from Revelation in particular he doesn't seem to have noticed a few things.
He is not a great thinker is he, Brother? PGA2.0`s belief that the Christ had already kept his promise to return on a cloud in AD 66-70 I am sure can be debunked with just one example of many from scripture itself.
Take for instance 2 Thessalonians 2: 3- "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;".
Do you see that right there Brother?
Falling away from what? The facts are that there were no established christian church to "fall away" from and not a single Christian was involved in the siege of Jerusalem.
Jesus had his Jewish support from all quarters. which included rich and influential men and women supporters of the cause. Men/women on the inside of the Jewish authorities and serving in Herod's palaces. Women supporting them of their substances, massive support from the heartland of the zealots in Galilee, but does he ever once call them "Christians"? Answer to that is NO! Not a single author of the four gospels ever mentions the word - Christian.
So again, what was there a falling away from? When did the great Christian apostacy happen? It didn't . In fact the Christian church grew massively and eventually became the state religion of Rome! Does that sound like a great "falling away from the CHRISTIAN church, Brother?
And for all the whaling and stamping of feet coming from PGA2.0, it is interesting too that like the many different Christian sects can't a agree with one part of scripture or another, preterist can't actually agree among themselves concerning the time second coming.
They will have it that virtually the whole of the apocalypse was fulfilled by A.D. 70 with the invading Roman armies and the fall of Jerusalem, while others have it that the promised return happened with the fall of Rome A.D. 476!
Brother, if Revelation and Matthew 24:7 and Luke 21:11 are ever to fit a time and place in human history then today would be that time. IMHO.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Not sure you have to believe.
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die ,John 11:25
And whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?" John 11:26
Mark 16:16. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Romans 10:9-14. Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
John: 3:15-16. That whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
I don't need Jesus to do it or to not suffer in some made up hell.
No one does , Witch. But I don't doubt that it is of some comfort to those that chose to believe.
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@Polytheist-Witch
If Christ died for our sins as a gift of salvation then how can anyone reject it. It's just there.
I think you have to believe that he died for you before you are granted everlasting life on another planet. And of course you have to die first, Witch.
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@ EtrnlVw
FLWR, Brother D, Stephen and Victor need not apply
That just about makes up the total of the religion sub forum. I thought you said no bias? #1 EtrnlVw
Anyway, while I am here:
When will Jesus return as promised? Millions of Christians believe his return is " imminent". A simple - I don't know - will do, unless of course you do know?
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@FLRW
Tolstoy believed that traditional mysteries such as Jesus’ divinity, Mary’s virginity, miracles and resurrections were either total nonsense or could be rationalised away.
I believe it to be a bit of both. As I have explained over many of my threads. One example being raising the "dead" who were not dead in the physical and natural rotten stinking corpse sense at all. Raising the "dead" to the be among the living is nothing more than a ceremony, a ritualistic and symbolic initiation.
Jesus chose his twelve from among the " dead " into his circle of the living. There are many giveaways in the scriptures that point to this being the case. And one perfect example of this is this nugget from Jesus himself:
Matthew 8:21-22
And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. King James Version
Take that literal and at face value and it makes no sense at all, in fact if this was meant in the literal sense then it would be and out `n` out impossibility.. But take into consideration what I have wrote then it all makes perfect sense. And it becomes perfectly clear that this can only mean dead in spirit or faith.
Lazarus wasn't "dead" he had lost faith in the Jesus movement and the cause, while undergoing the "raising" ritual, and neither was the lost "dead" son who was simply wayward and decided to strike out on his own to see what the world was like among the "dead".
24 " For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate. Luke 15:11-32 . It seems being "dead" was a common idiom among the faithful Jews of the time.
Indeed we use such a term today when we see children sleeping as being -"dead" to the world. Or the saying to someone very much alive " as far as I am concerned, you are dead to me"
This example of the "dead" sleeping daughter is interesting;
“behold,there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live. And when Jesus came into the ruler's house, and saw the minstrels and the people making a noise. He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn. But when the people were put forth, he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose”.Matthew9: 18-25.KJV
So we see, if the “certain” ruler’s daughter is dead has her father believes she is, ( and I am sure he would know a dead daughter of his from a live one) then Jesus lied . And if she (the daughter) was not dead, then there was no miracle performed but a ritual “raising”.
It seems sycophantic fawning Christians and these Gospel writers, want it both ways.
Again it is interesting that when these crafty gospel authors do not want you to know something they often use that enigmatic word " certain" instead of just spitting it out. A "certain" place and "certain" person.
All the raising of those that had lost faith and became spiritually "dead" yet not a single prayer of forgiveness for Judas from a single person in scriptures.
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@BrotherDThomas
Stephen,Once again you make me leery of my TRUE Christianity, where I have to "look the other way" when reading your well researched and thought out posts, and then backing them up historically or biblically. Damn you!
No offence intended , Brother I can promise you that.
Also of mention is when you stated "Jesus of Nazareth," whereas this town is where Jesus is from, but at the same time, it did not exist in Jesus' time period!
Indeed as any student of Greek ancient or otherwise will tell you , the word is Nazarene as Jesus was a Nazarite as far as I understand. Still it is neither here nor there where he was from or what he was, he didn't forgive Judas for doing the lords work, period!
Many TRUE Christians like myself look for historical confirmation of this hometown of our serial killer Jesus, but there is no source whatsoever that confirms that the place even existed in the 1st century AD!
That is true. I mentioned this fact sometime ago.
It is disturbing that Nazareth is not mentioned even once in the entire Old Testament. The Book of Joshua (19.10,16) – in what it claims is the process of settlement by the tribe of Zebulon records twelve towns and six villages and yet omits any 'Nazareth' from its list!The Talmud, although it names 63 Galilean towns, knows nothing of Nazareth, nor does early rabbinic literature. What is really disturbing is that St Paul knows absolutely nothing of Nazareth, and no ancient historian or geographer mentions Nazareth, whereas it is only first noted at the beginning of the 4th century! Huh? WTF?
Indeed Paul the murderer of Jesus' own flock didn't know a lot to be honest Brother. He made it all up on the hoof as many Christians today do once they have painted themselves into a theological corner.
Indeed some christian bibles make it perfectly clear what was written on the head board of the cross read . Young's transliteration for instance>>
"And Pilate also wrote a title, and put it on the cross, and it was written, 'Jesus the Nazarene, the king of the Jews".
The Derby Bible also states clearly:
And Pilate wrote a title also and put it on the cross. But there was written: Jesus the Nazarene, the King of the Jews.
Now Pilate also wrote an inscription and put it on the cross. It was written: “JESUS THE NAZARENE, THE KING OF THE JEWS.”
Pilate also had a sign lettered and put on the cross. The inscription was: JESUS THE NAZARENE THE KING OF THE JEWS
The list goes on Brother. And it appears that as new information is slowly discovered , uncovered and revealed we have over the centuries have been able to piece together a better and clearer picture of what it was like in the first century Palestine of Jesus's time, minus the so called "miracles"!
At times our Bible scares the Hell out of the TRUE Christians like me, but not for the spoon-fed pseudo-christians that swallow whatever they need to hear. :(
And that about sums up the situation. It scares then to hear a few fact and it scares them to realise that they have probably been backing the wrong horse for over 2,000 years. So simply choose to ignore.
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@ronjs
so what would cause people to choose to reject God despite this threat if not free will.
So you are another christian that fails to read your own scripture but rushes defend the indefeasible at the first sign of criticism regardless.
Read you own bible? The woman was deceived and beguiled by one of gods own creations. And it is not a choice if it comes with a threat, is it.
An all knowing God would pour out perfect justice on anyone including Judas
I wasn't talking about gods justice. Stop avoiding the question. Has god or Jesus forgiven Judas or Satan for their "transgressions"? Have you prayed for forgiveness of either?
Our experiences are open to interpretation,
As are the anomalous, ambiguous half stories that make up the bible. You don't even know when Jesus will return. As all you ever tell us that that it will be soon.
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@BrotherDThomas
What has always bothered me is the biblical fact that my serial killer Jesus created Judas in the first place (Colossians 1:16 ), could control his actions if need be, but Jesus didn't in the betrayal scenario.
So the question is a great big WHY? Was it a purposeful enactment played out in reality for the benefit of the "multitude" or to convince the temple of the authorities of his legitimacy as high priest king of the Jews?
I can hear the Christians stamping their tiny feet for not considering this question not to mention have a plausible answer to hand. The usual one is that it "must" happen as Jesus said it "must" because of a single supposed OT prophecy, But this is simply old cobblers. Can anyone not see Matthew and co simply cherry picking OT verses to 'fit' the Jesus story?
The "Judas kiss" that is said to have served as the identification of Jesus has to be nonsense too. And any reader of the scriptures- Christian or otherwise - will probably be fed up to the back teeth of these authors contradicting one another.
“And as soon as he wascome, he goeth straightway to him, and saith, Master, master; andkissed him”. Mark14:45
Onereally has to wonder what that was all about. Judasis said to have identified Jesus with a kiss, whereas he could havejust pointed and said ‘that’s him, the one in the white robe just absolutely glowing in the dark due to the holy spirit inside of him` . And no one seems to be able to explain why Judas had actually betrayedJesus, except for “it is written” and Jesus said it "must " happen.
But Johnon the other hand tells us Jesus identified himself;
“Theyanswered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. AndJudas also, which betrayed him, stood with them”. John 18:5
And lets not forget, the Jewish authorities knew perfectly well what Jesus looked like. He had had many run-ins with them over things concerning the sabbath and "rendering unto Caesar" and there is the witnesses at the temple riot which must have amounted to hundreds.
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@ronjs
So is the threat enough to make you become a Christian or do you use your free will to reject Christ?
You failure to understand that the threat of death for disobedience is not free will if it comes with a threat.
God (Jesus) is a loving and forgiving God, but is also a just God.
Has he forgiven Judas or Satan for their "transgressions"? Have you prayed for forgiveness of either?
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He returned in AD 70.I started such a thread before. The participants largely avoided the issues.Have you!? Or is that more bullshit? You have started only five threads total on this forum. Four of which are directed to the person. Two of those were directed and personalised towards me. How you got away with breaking that rule puzzles me to this day when the Brother was banned for simply quoting someones biographical profile that was already available to anyone on this forum.. And the fifth is to do with morality.Well, I was not aware of such a policy until you made such a big fuss.
I am not kicking up anything. I was simply pointing out the double standards. The rules are clear, No " calling out threads" i.e direct to the person. I didn't complain or flag your bullshit.
You post thread after thread that ad hominem Christians and mock Christianity,..........us stupid
Stop with the victim-hood. I think there are Christians that are calling you stupid too to believe that you believe that you have evidence that Jesus kept his promise and had already returned in AD66-70. Like them, I have seen no evidence of a return especially in the light that millions of Christian believe Jesus return is imminent NOW!!!
and because we question these threads,
Nope. You can question away.
it really gets your goat.
Nope. I think the reverse is more likely.
You even blocked me once.
I did and I will block you again if you keep posting reams and reams of bullshit that you believe proves and upholds your believe that Jesus kept his promise to return and had done so in AD66-70.
I'm glad to see that you have a forgiving nature!
Don't hold your breath everyone has their limitations ......... including Jesus.
(A) He returned in AD 70.I started such a thread before. The participants largely avoided the issues.I cannot locate your thread alleging that Jesus had already returned to earth as promised in 66-70 AD some 35+ years after once laying dead , rotting and stinking for three days and then ascending into heaven, as you claim.I did include evidence in my two threads that addressed you.
Nope! Again you tell lies. You said that you had already started a thread on the subject of Jesus return in AD 66-70 ( See (A) above in BOLD,) when both those threads clearly show that you haven't. They were of different subject matter altogether. They were about me and what I post and more whining and victim-hood etc.. and they both show too that you couldn't support your claims on both those threads, either! And a quick read shown me you got roasted.
Make yourself more clear, then.
What is it that is so hard for you to understand about a simple request to " create a thread of your own on the subject of Jesus return in AD 66-70" ?
And to clear up your view of what I said, He was crucified, died, rose again from the dead three days later, spent 40 days with the disciples, then ascended into heaven to be with the Father and returned in judgment 40 years later on these OT people.
Yes I understand your claim. I don't believe it. And neither do millions of Christians around the world. Are they stupid for believing Jesus` return is imminent NOW!!! ?
I did not claim Josephus believed Jesus returned.
Oh stop it!!! You have claimed that Josephus witnessed Jesus' return on a cloud as promised and " describe it in much detail " #26 <<<<<<<<simply not true is it.
You claimed that the balls of fire catapulted at the city of Jerusalem in AD 70 were Jesus coming on a cloud.
Flavius Josephus mentions no raising from the dead of Jesus called the Christ and making a show on a cloud and sitting anywhere , either. Stop making things up. Is it any wonder you are called "stupid".
I am cross-examining your claims of a no-show.
Yes I know. The bible says he hasn't and didn't return for those LIVING at the time of the promise to witness.
And when the population started to wake up realising there had been no return as promised because the people of the time of THE promise HAS PASSED AWAY, they confronted Peter about it
2Peter 3:4 “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”
Yet even allowing for all those Jews alive at the time of the promise and living another hundred + years, Jesus simply failed to show and keep his promise.
But what was the bullshit response they got from the biblically PROVEN unreliable and untrustworthy lying turncoat and betrayer and apologists Peter?
They got this load of old fanny;>>> But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 2 Peter3:8.
Jesus mentions nothing of this "1,000years" at the time he made the promise , so YOU also have prove and explain how many people of the time of the promise went on to live a thousand years? Don't you! Considering THE BIBLE tells us! >>>
Genesis 6:3 And the Lord said, " My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years".
Off you trot now.
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