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@ResurgetExFavilla
@HistoryBuff
how do you know what their recommendations were previously? I certainly don't. What the CDC recommends for flu season is not something 99% of people would ever have heard of.
exactly, as Resurget pointed out in Japanese culture sick people wear masks, so if you go back to my point.....had they started decades ago, educating and encouraging people to wear masks especially during flu season people would be more use to it and compliant now right?
ResurgetExFavilla, for flu season people who were symptomatic with an u.r.i. could wear a properly homemade mask. There was another study, when I homemade mask uses a plastic liner they were able to reduce the particle level to that of the N95. Though they didn't explain how. We are fitted for the N95 once a year. I would suspect people are buying whatever they can find and or making what they can. Instructions to build a better mousetrap just don't seem to be important. Layers and type of fabric make a big difference as well, why isn't that information on the cdc website or on the news?
imo a plastic shield is probably the best home use device people could get generally speaking.
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@HistoryBuff
has anyone ever told them not to?
because you think the average person would know to before covid? isn't the job of the CDC to inform the citizens?
what is your point?
again, if it's really about saving lives then why didn't they get out the information about masks long ago to minimize all the flu deaths that could have been prevented? They didn't bother to inform then, for flu etc, but NOW it's mandatory because flu deaths don't matter apparently, or other pneumonias which could be prevented by masks.
apparently the surgical and homemade masks are far more effective against flu than covid but we just hear crickets about that don't we.
Have you seen anyone or anything asking people to save masks for this coming flu season which may also include covid? neither have I.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
In general the East Asian principle of wearing masks when sick has a lot to be said for it, and I think that their cultural practice of doing so has contributed to the largely successful containment of the virus in Japan, Taiwan, Korea, and Vietnam. I think that wearing them while not sick is only really warranted with an exceptionally contagious pathogen like COVID-19.
I agree, however the W.H.O. and others disagree with regards to people who are not sick.
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@HistoryBuff
they never promoted or informed the public in any meaningful way about wearing masks during flu season have they?
anyone who has u.r.i. symptoms should be encouraged and voluntarily wear a mask if they are able.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
here ya go
Previous research also shows that surgical masks can be almost as efficient as N95 respirators at reducing influenza infection among health care personnel. This is because they protect the nose and mouth from larger droplets from coughs and sneezes. It is unknown whether this is true for COVID-19.
huh, makes you wonder why masks were never recommended during flu seasons....
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@HistoryBuff
Vaccines prevent the spread of the disease. They slow down or inhibit this so that it affects less people. That is a very good thing. But it does absolutely nothing to affect how deadly the disease is once someone has it.
that is actually incorrect, in mismatched years the flu vaccine still offers SOME benefit, often when people get the flu even though they received the flu vaccine they don't get AS sick as they would have otherwise. They don't prevent the spread of the disease, the vaccine stimulates the body to produce antibodies to the virus much like the hepatitis and other vaccines.
So in a way having the vaccine could make you an asymptomatic carrier potentially. Have you ever been told or heard not to share drink containers etc during cold and flu season? That's partly because of asymptomatic people.
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@ILikePie5
so now the family has hired a private pathologist since they don't like the results of the first autopsy, this should be fun.
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@HistoryBuff
I didn't say the senate can't do the same thing. But that isn't related to what we are talking about.
well I disagree, since government makes laws and police policy they are very much related.
We obviously need professional police,
which sheriffs, deputies and peace officers are.
so you don't believe in elections and the process, well not much else to say then I guess.
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@ILikePie5
it sure seems he loves authority and would be happy living in the nanny state, that's what Sanders was promising after all.
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@HistoryBuff
that doesn't even make sense. The police and congress are 2 very separate entities.
really? hmm you were talking about how the police cover for each other and investigate each other thus a conflict of interest, you don't think Congress and the Senate do that too?
what unconstitutional orders?
plenty of orders have been overturned etc, you should have no problem finding some and catching up to date.
ok, but without those "people with guns" to enforce the laws, society fails to function, crime runs rampant
sure I'll bet there was very little citizen crime in nazi germany and some were content to live like that, would you?
turning enforcement of the law into a popularity contest is a terrible plan.
really? you don't think people who vote for others who will be just and fair? you don't seem to know much about this but it's not a permanent position, they have to be re-elected. electing people who would uphold the constitution and protect rights is a terrible plan, wow, you'd love a police state apparently, but then bitch they are so ruthless.
since it is far easier to just not enforce them
so glad you said that written in 1957 by a woman Ayn Rand
"Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.”
But if we didn't have global trade the standard of living would be lower.
except for the bad trade deals, though I fail to see how all this time globalism hasn't helped black unemployment then a non globalist is elected and the black unemployment breaks records, but just be luck huh.
lol Bernie Sanders who never had a job in his life and became a millionaire being a "public servant" um no thanks.
We need term limits, far better accounting and oversight.
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@ILikePie5
It’s a simple question. Do you support the violent protests: burning property down, looting, etc or no? Yes or No would suffice. I say no.
no, and there's no rational justification for it.
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@HistoryBuff
you missed my point. I'm saying this is not an isolated. The underlying anger and rage is because this stuff is happening all the time.
I can't disagree with that
in practice no. Crimes committed by the police are investigated by other police. The punishments are often determined by still different police.
right so if you expand that a tad and apply it to Congress and the Senate then you can see it's the government vs the people, now the national guard which is just another form of law enforcement right? Military? who runs them? the citizens?
you must have missed where I talked about sheriffs who are often elected to their positions and who's purpose is to uphold the constitution/b.o.r. not write b.s. tickets or enforce victimless crimes, would that be so bad? Consider this for a moment if you can, the recent unconstitutional orders state governors etc have used and enforced, not all police went along with those, so where theses orders just to see how much of the police force was loyal to the government? The government, state or otherwise can't enforce laws without people with guns loyal to them and willing to do their bidding. ever wonder why all the old silly laws rarely get removed from the books but so many get added every year.
globalism has massively improved the standard of living in most of the world.
it sure has, China is a prime example of that isn't it. though all the people who lost their jobs might not thing it's such a great thing.
whose main goal is to keep themselves rich and you poor.
that is so sadly very true and that is a huge problem we find ourselves in right now, wouldn't you agree? Pelosi isn't shy to how off her wealth. How about the Clintons? Obama has done extremely well being a "public servant" lol can't help to laugh every time I heard that term used for anyone who's become rich off tax payer money or by taking advantage of their position.
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@ILikePie5
they got the attention, now it seems in the form of the national guard, more government employees with guns, contraz, well done to them.
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@HistoryBuff
You don't see this kind of explosive outburst if this was just an isolated incident and no one was upset before this.
was the time before this on the "isolated incident"? how about the one before that? and before that?
The fact that these are people hired to protect the people and they are instead murdering them certainly makes it worse.
I see so if he had been murdered by another black man, eh chalk that up to just another murder? how many degrees of murder are there that some are worse than others?
what, the power to kill people on the street?
the power to run and control their own lives, not everyone wants the government to do it for them like most liberals.
There needs to be much greater civilian oversight of the police.
lol isn't that what elected officials are supposed to do? hey maybe we should expand government and they could increase the police force like they have been doing, seems to be working right? more nanny state that will fix it, more globalism too, look how much that has helped the poor over the many years. you should really rethink your political ideology maybe.
lol you are aware that the police and government are 2 separate entities right?
but are they really? aren't they the ones who are in charge of the over site that you want? Some mayors have a lot of power over the police. Governor is calling up national guard for the riots. who has the power?
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@ILikePie5
Aren’t these the same people that want to send cops door to door to confiscate firearms?
they don't understand their own hypocrisy, it's typical when the rights of other are trampled on it's ok, but when the worm turns.....same thing, more government, more government control, handout etc but once those turn all of a sudden it's bad even though they created the problem. in their arrogance they thought they were only causing problems and controlling the other side, now they are reaping what they have sewn and they deserve far more since that's the only thing that will get their attention, same logic as the riots right?
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@Greyparrot
the power abuse, control and incompetence by elected officials isn't is obvious as when cops do it and often far more deadly but they keep voting them into office, go figure.
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@HistoryBuff
They are literally being murdered by the people in charge of protecting them. If that isn't a cause for anger, i don't know what is.
where was the anger before this murder, and the anger before that and so on and so on.....
is the anger only when it's done by someone in charge of protecting the public? why is that do you think?
There is a culture among police where they stick together and protect their own. This system regularly allows cops to break the law, even murder people, and walk away scot free.
it's almost like they have too much power right? it's almost like the people should have the power right?
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@HistoryBuff
Covid has a mortality rate roughly 10 times higher than the seasonal flu. The two are in completely leagues.
how about over the past 30 years, how does it compare then?
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@RationalMadman
You do not defeat barbaric cops by being barbaric populace, this fuels exactly what they want in order to fight back.
that is a very astute observation I had not thought of but sure does make sense. the police will now be "justified" in using force against the rioters and probably for a while after it calms down because they will be "scared" from the tensions/riots. totally see that happeneing.
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@ILikePie5
really? I wonder if they could say that to the black guy crying because he lost his business or the others hurt similarly.
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@HistoryBuff
as I said "the messages from different organizations and "authorities" seem to contradict each other."
you see governor blackface has made it a crime NOT to wear a mask, however https://youtu.be/NUHsEmlIoE4 that was from March 8th, then https://edition.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/05/27/dr-fauci-intv-coronavirus-wear-mask-sot-nr-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/coronavirus/ and when you add in the WHO recommendation you don't find it contradictory?
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@Danielle
your emotions are getting the better of you as you are arguing with someone in generally agrees with you, take a breath if you please, I understand this is a very emotional issue.
there are 2 sides to every story and then there is the truth.
there were potentially 2 sides of this story which is moot in lieu of the truth.
would it be hypocritical to protest specific police murders instead of all of them? twice as many white people are killed by police than blacks, however blacks are disproportionately killed, but then again blacks commit crimes at a disproportionate higher level.
but let's set all that aside if we can. Cops should not be murdering anyone. There's an old debate largely ignored about the militarization of the police which I believe is true. Who runs the police, the government, the police is an extension of the government. this is important when you look at how some favor more government and more government control and vote accordingly.
Personally I think the only "police" should be sheriffs, their duty is to protect the constitution and citizens, they are elected by citizens and I don't think they are in the super powerful police union.
there can't be any meaningful police reform imo because of their union. there are not enough people willing to be cops so their choice of recruits is limited.
as to this murder, the protests should be for all those murdered by the police even if you have to look at is the enemy of my enemy. I will tell you the rioting and looting HAS hurt the image of what happened and detracted from it. Violence begets violence it has and will end one way or another.
Having been without a job before, my heart and attention is now focused on those who will not have one for a long time or may lose it all together through absolutely no fault of their own.
Again taking it out on police property, vehicles and or the murderer is at least logical even though you just hurt yourself/community. No excuse can be made for what they have done. Did you hear the woman yelling out to kill white people by any chance? What could have been an event to pull people together to affect change has be destroyed by selfishness and stupidity.
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@Danielle
Presuming riots are unjustified is an attitude reserved for the privileged and the ignorant.
you would justify the hurting of innocent people either physically or financially? you really think that gains sympathy and support?
you want to make it a race thing but if you'd search just a little you'd see it a cop thing.
the peaceful protests for equal rights and to end segregation worked didn't they? I don't recall mass looting and arson.
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@Danielle
It's hilarious that white people and conservatives love celebrating the 2nd amendment and noting how we might need weapons to fight the state one day, but when we see black people do it, it's automatically criminal and unjustifiable and we look for "peaceful" resolution. Ha.
destroying your own city, your neighbors lively hood etc is not fighting the state nor has any conservative group or pro 2a done that.
It doesn't take more than a few seconds to know what he did was blatant murder.You're not allowed to put your knee on someone's fucking throat until they're unconscious. Even if you're a cop. Surprise!
it took more than a few seconds for him to become unconscious so your hyperbole isn't helpful. last I heard it took 7-8 minutes
choking IS an approve police tactic, not trachial but the arteries are fare game.
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@Vader
I think it's safe to assume black people held some of those jobs and probably needed them. They probably needed to shop at those store due to lack of transportation or whatever. Now they are without. People who had nothing to do with this murder, black people as well as other races. Those who try to justify the riots expose themselves for the kind of people they truly are.
If those business rebuild it will take a long time, meanwhile people are w/o jobs, places to shop etc. Does anyone think these companies that chose to rebuild will just eat the cost? How about destroying police cars and their building, who do they think pays for that? the cops themselves?
I say it all the time, the movie idiocracy was actually prophecy.
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@Greyparrot
and she lectures people on guns too lol you'd think her husband or whomever wouldn't have let her make a fool of herself like that, but I guess he's just a dumb or dumber than she is.
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@Danielle
hind sight certainly is 20/20 isn't it
hands up don't shoot, bag of skittles just a couple of examples of false racism, first one involved a cop. took a while before the actual truth came out and the lies uncovered so yeah it does take more than a few seconds. looking at the stats there's no evidence or reason to think this was racial, unless you have information proving otherwise. I would refer you to the links I've posted in the political section/Chaos thread.
as far as this case, police immunity is too powerful imo
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@Danielle
What I said is that people who are claiming there are "two sides to this story"
you don't think that's a natural reaction to something incomprehensible? Hoping this wasn't what it ended up being? Are you so numb to this that you couldn't fathom that there could possibly be more, that someone couldn't possibly be so barbaric? That's really sad if you think about it.
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@Greyparrot
Tony Timpa, another person held down and killed? well he was white after all so no biggy
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@Greyparrot
remember the riots when the black guy killed the white 2 old people visiting their son's grave?
remember the riots over this?
a 40-year-old Australian-American woman, was fatally shot by Mohamed Noor, a Somali-American Minneapolis Police Department officer
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@HistoryBuff
I'm not confused actually even though the messages from different organizations and "authorities" seem to contradict each other.
have you search something like "effectiveness of masks" ?
incase you didn't know you have to have a "fit test" for the n95 for it to actually work properly.
Dr. Harp said there is no definitive evidence that cloth masks decrease transmission of the coronavirus.
Some types of cloth work better than others. Multiple layers and tighter weaves are better. “Theoretically, then, any face covering will reduce the number of virus particles that reach the open air,” noted Dr. Harp.
Commercial surgical masks marketed for212 medical use had mean particle removal efficiencies from 50-75% when worn as designed but up to 90%213 when snugged to the face under a nylon layer. Cloth masks tested had widely varying mean particle214 removal efficiencies (<30% to near 90%), with some cloth masks achieving similar filtration efficiencies as215 commercial surgical masks. However, in general, surgical-style cloth masks had poor fit (i.e., performance216 was greatly enhanced with the nylon overlayer) compared to cone-shaped masks, and masks with good217 material filtration performance tended to have a filter layer (e.g., meltblown BFE85 filter layer) in addition218 to two layers of cotton or non-woven fabric.
basically if you can breathe comfortably, it's not working for you.
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um, what?
Oh btw it's a class 6 felony to wear a mask in Virginia if you are over 16, with very few specific exceptions, nice that gov' blackface is allowing the citizens to wear them for now.
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@Danielle
A ton of black people with guns should take to the streets to protest like people did when they couldn't get haircuts.
I would ask you to open up your favorite search engine and search for "armed black business owners guarding their property from rioters" something along those lines.
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@VonKlempter
when people stop voting for authoritarian politicians then maybe this will be less common. So long as people continue to elect politicians that offer them "free" stuff, ignore and violate the constitution for their own good the police will continue to be enforcers and you'll have your police state.
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@ILikePie5
Did Biden Say Poor Kids Are ‘Just as Talented as White Kids’
lol so poor = black to him
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@RationalMadman
the others will just say we weren't watching, we were watching the crowd that was forming and we were being surrounded, something like that anyway. That cop had every intention to choke him out, he was going to punish him, fix him, you could see it in his face imo. There's no way to prove intent I don't think. Nevertheless his actions lead to his death and he should get the max sentence for whatever he will be found guilty of.
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@Danielle
in this country you have to have a trial and go through due process before being convicted, which in this case hasn't happened yet has it, if you have some kind of clairvoyance to know these cops won't be charged let us know and the winning lottery numbers too if you don't mind.
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@Dr.Franklin
who needs a gun? who needs more than 10 rounds....um....well......
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@Danielle
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@Imabench
not to get too sidetracked, but don't you believe what he said was true? if you are rich or famous there are fans/groupies whatever and they will pretty much let you do whatever to them, so saying "they will let you grab them by the pussy" is a true statement even if it is crude.
You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.
Trump: Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.
it's disappointing you would try to equate that with what Biden actually does, like it's some kind of defense.
but like I said they have ignored what Biden has actually done, on video, with children etc and they ignore it, so, as I said they will ignore everything and anything, "you ain't black" hahaha at least he didn't use the "n" word.....yet.
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@Imabench
even before now Biden creeping on little girls has gone ignored, the videos don't lie, so if people are willing to ignore that long time behavior they will ignore everything.
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@Vader
30? was it the one where they sprayed her with a fire extinguisher? she did not look 30 at all.
anyway, imagine if someone tried to intervene and save that guy, by pulling to cop off or something, they would probably have been shot or at the very least arrested.
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@Vader
there's a video of them attacking a white old lady in an electric wheelchair, haven't verified it was from that riot or not, but the video seems to speak for itself.
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@PressF4Respect
Then the trolls and spambots came.
that's why I left
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@Vader
I no longer have respect or trust, because you can't. Their jobs is to make an arrest period. The Supreme Court ruled long ago they can lie or pretty much do whatever it takes to make that happen. This should be obvious with the numerous videos of police encounters. They threaten, lie, intimidate and use "mistake of law" as a sword not a shield.
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@Imabench
yes but that cop wasn't white, I would NEVER reach for something out of sight of the cop, they are well protected from wrong doings by their union and the government.
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@Vader
police should be there to keep the peace and enforce our constitutional rights, what that job was meant to do has been lost for a very long time, peace officers kept the peace, now they enforce laws of which are so many you can be charged at their whim. we do not have ignorance of the law defense, but they have mistake of law defense, meaning if they got the law wrong that's ok, it was a mistake, sorry you have to spend days/weeks in jail, pay a bunch of money for bail/lawyer, our bad.
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@Greyparrot
how soon they forget, sigh
Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act
the bill was originally written by Senator Joe Biden of Delaware and then was passed by Congress and signed into law by President Bill Clinton.
The Act contributed to mass incarceration and prison overcrowding. The legal system relied on plea bargains to minimize the increased case load.[21][22] Jerry Brown and Bill Clinton later expressed regret over the portions of the measure that led to increased prison population like the three strikes provision.
As a result of the aforementioned increase in incarceration, a disproportionate amount of minorities ended up within the American prison system.
this is what president Trump has rolled back, probably not enough but even the first half black president didn't touch it.
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