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@Alec
it should not be regulated, consenting adults do not need and should not be regulated.
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@HistoryBuff
A subpoena is already a legally binding order.
and yet people from both parties and private citizens have ignored them, yet it's only a crime if Trump does it?
" Generally, a hearing will be held where the party charged with noncompliance has an opportunity to explain its side of the story, and the court or agency has broad discretion to determine an appropriate punishment given the circumstances presented. In most cases in a contempt proceeding, the court determines the appropriateness of withholding any documents under a claim of privilege. In such cases, the outcome is more likely to be an order to produce, coupled with an award of attorneys’ fees to the party that had to initiate the contempt proceedings."
well looky there, huh whoda thunk it, whole lot of nothing.
so it's just like I said "an order to produce" clearly you can challenge a subpoena and ignore it, up to a point. Or is U.C. Berkley full of shit?
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@drafterman
I don't think this is a skin color issue even though some do. We are to believe that somehow these cities and areas have been created to keep black people in even though they are and have been ran by other black people for decades. It's a poverty issue which isn't skin color dependant nor is it cause by racism. If someone doesn't want to be poor they don't have to be in a majority of cases. What I see are excuses, soft bigotry of low expectations, lack of resources, caring the list goes on.
there is a large benefit to people in power/government to keep people poor and society divided, these terms they dream up are ghosts to keep us distracted from what is really going on.
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@drafterman
ah i.c. it's not dead, never will be, there are a multitude of reason to dislike a group of people skin color only being one of them. I still don't see "systemic racism" even if the effects are still in existence, to what amount I don't know but it doesn't seem it has power over hard work and a will to change one's circumstance.
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@drafterman
oh I thought I had answered you, no, I can't imagine a future where it wouldn't exist to some degree.
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@drafterman
as I said bias is a human trait, everyone has it and always will.
the so called "white supremist" have been dwindling in numbers for a long while with an estimate of only a few thousand in the U.S. (last I heard) But I don't consider that systemic, nor do I know of any systems setup to be racist.
Equality is a funny thing, we should treat everyone equally unless a certain group can exclude others because of their skin color, doesn't that seem a bit oh I dunno hypocritical to you regardless of the justification?
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@Swagnarok
White Americans automatically expect to achieve *at least* a lower middle class standard of living.
don't you mean work for? how do you "expect" a standard of living if you aren't a socialist aka democrat?
I grew up poor, didn't like it much, I'm not wealthy, but I'm not poor either. I never expected anything, I earned it because I didn't want to be poor. Most of my friends were poor, we lived and grew up in a poor town. Many are not poor, some are, some got involved in drugs and or crime and never did much as far are earning a living. There are some, probably quite a few that look at welfare as a lifestyle, life choice. Well anyway there's an awful lot of reasons why people are poor etc, some can't be helped but I think most can be.
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@drafterman
I don't know, there will always be bias, that's just human nature and it affects everyone to some degree. We are all capable of more, no one has really tried their hardest, they/we settle.
Thinking about places like Baltimore, Chicago and similar. Places who have received many millions, have black governors, congress persons etc. Why are those such shithole places? Because of systemic racism? I'm not seeing it if it's there. Sure seems the only time any of them claim racism is when they are in the news because of some controversy. Maybe Elija Cummings said the shithole parts of his state were because of racism but I don't recall it. If not it must be some other reason I suppose.
Now if you were to liken these issue to the soft bigotry of low expectations then I would agree with that. But I view them as different issues in the context most people portray them as.
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@HistoryBuff
It is within the rights of a defendant to order the witnesses to his crimes not to testify?
maybe, maybe not, the fact that supposedly he did would just require a court hearing and order to compel the witnesses to testify, that's how the court systems work. Without an official court order it's basically a request which can be denied, they are asking not ordering.
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@HistoryBuff
So because a small number of people can manage to succeed in a broken system, then the system must be perfect?
so there's no proof for you claim other than it's complicated, gotcha
did I say it was perfect or easy? Why do you make such erroneous assumptions on a regular basis?
How do the "small number of people" compare to other groups? How do you explain immigrants who barely speak the language yet own their own business or work so they are not on welfare?
Do black immigrants have a better, worse or same success rate than those of many generations born in the U.S. I think we both know the answer to that question but that would destroy the systemic discrimination narrative wouldn't it.
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@HistoryBuff
but it is extremely hard for black people to get into the same socioeconomic status due to the systemic discrimination.
lol sure, prove it's because of discrimination and not lack of motivation since those who are highly motivated to succeed and even thrive. There must be thousands of examples you could give where someone with bad socioeconomic status who works hard, doesn't get arrested, doesn't have a child at too early of an age and can't make it because of "systemic discrimination" So let's see some examples, this should be easy for you.
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@HistoryBuff
"That second article of impeachment charges President Trump with obstruction of Congress for refusing to comply with congressional subpoenas in the absence of a final court order. In so charging him, the House Judiciary Committee has arrogated to itself the power to decide the validity of its subpoenas, as well as the power to determine whether claims of executive privilege must be recognized, both powers that properly belong with the judicial branch of our government, not the legislative branch."
has nothing to do with tax records.
"President Trump has asserted that the executive branch, of which he is the head, need not comply with congressional subpoenas requiring the production of privileged executive material, unless there is a final court order compelling such production. He has argued, appropriately, that the judicial branch is the ultimate arbiter of conflicts between the legislative and executive branches. Therefore, the Supreme Court decision to review these three cases, in which lower courts ruled against President Trump, provides support for his constitutional arguments in the investigation."
did you even read the article?
"It undercuts the contention by House Democrats that President Trump committed an impeachable offense by insisting on a court order before sending possibly privileged material to Congress. Even before the justices granted review of these cases, the two articles of impeachment had no basis in the Constitution. They were a reflection of the comparative voting power of the two parties, precisely what one of the founders, Alexander Hamilton, warned would be the “greatest danger” of an impeachment."
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@Alec
nope, people have preferences, that's normal and natural, it's not privilege in the context as the leftist make it sound. We have bias, we just do. The bais is generally based on our experiences and things or people we can relate to or have some negative reason towards. A black female judge imo would be more likely to hand a lighter sentence to a black female defendant than an equal crime etc of a white male defendant.
I don't relate well to guys who can't pull their pants up and walk about looking like they have a very old and full diaper. Skin color isn't relevant having things in common is.
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@Greyparrot
doh!
Supreme Court ruling pulls rug out from under article of impeachment
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@Dr.Franklin
I mean it's no surprise really, is it? She read a prepared speech with some ramped up emotion bfd. Love how they said she has "selective mutism" LOL did anyone actually look up see what that is? They get scared and might not be able to speak publicly yet we need a fancy name for it. This was done so when she was questioned and couldn't form a coherent answer they would have an excuse.
She is an exploited puppet.
It's very sad, not once did I hear anything about her studying the problem or in any way shape or form being knowledgeable about this issue, nope she just read a speech someone else wrote and got all emotional. This is what the leftist love, no facts just emotion.
What they did to Sandmann was horrible and when it was brought to light do you remember all the apologies? neither do I. Those who jumped on that train are full of hate and deceit, obviously.
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@Christen
If it's true that we're "low information voters" then why not convince Trump supporters to support someone else instead, like Bernie Sanders? After all, we don't know any better and we need someone smarter than us mindless sheep to guide us in the right direction, right?
in a divided society, if you can control the majority then that's all that matters. It would be impossible to control a unified society that isn't aligned with your politics. Never forget these people running the country have no honor, fake morality and empathy. They don't care about anyone except their own kind, the rich elites. It's that simple. The pandering and never kept, hollow promises should make that obvious.
The irony is people know what to expect from someone like Trump, the left is willingly blind to the horrible candidates they run. But they are blind, dependant lemmings so there's that.
Trump "voters" know exactly what the left has to offer and doesn't want any part of that. That doesn't require much of an education to figure out, just a little common sense and a tad of critical thinking. They would rather bad mouth half the population than to actually acknowledge what these voters already know and aren't willing to accept, socialism.
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@HistoryBuff
the clinton impeachment wasn't all one party like this time
certainly you can understand people's skepticism about these so called crimes as the highly touted and shouted collusion and quid pro quo isn't mentioned, I mean there was proof right? how many said they have proof, proof positive. What they started out saying and claiming is a far cry from where they have ended up, so I guess they were just lying?
Trump Approval Among Blacks Tops 34 Percent in Emerson Poll
again you find polls valid, I do not.
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@Greyparrot
I haven't considered it the part of democrats for a long time, they have strayed so far from what they were it's not longer recognizable. They should be honest and take on the socialist monicher.
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@David
was there ever any doubt? this was the plan the day after he was elected, many have said as much publically. When the roles are reversed they shouldn't be angry when the worm turns right?
Past presidents have done far worse things against political rivals out in the open yet no impeachments, this time is seems new standards are in place. What's good for the goose.....be careful what you ask for, you may just get it.
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@HistoryBuff
polls....ok you hang on to those because they really have been so accurate right?
you just don't get it do you, yeah the next democratic president will and should go through everything they are doing now, just like the nuclear option came back to bite them in the ass, so will this, they didn't learn from Harry Reed's stupidity nor will they learn from this.
If they themselves believed they would win then why couldn't they wait for the next election to right these "wrongs"? Sounds like they have major doubts. If they were confident in a win there wouldn't be this made up b.s. urgency hey speak of. They know their position is so weak their only hope is to sabotage and create as much division as they can. Which will probably backfire anyway.
Since you have such faith in the polls, do you have the same faith and shows increase support for Trump among the American black population?
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@Greyparrot
they just can't see the forest for the trees
if you want to preserve what liberty is left, if you want as little government intrusion into your life as possible there is only one way to realistically vote and you don't need any kind of degree to figure that one out. Always amazes me how people with fancy degrees can be so stupid.
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@Dr.Franklin
Al Green said it best, honestly (paraphrasing) "They must impeach him because they can't beat him in the next election" Humpty dumpty is quoted as saying something similar, to distance or disillusion the voter base and Republican party for the next election. Whether they actually said these things doesn't matter to me because I believe those are the reasons though they would never outright admit it.
After Clinton's impeachment his popularity dropped so they think the same will happen in this case as well.
Mark Levin gave a whole list of past presidents, all the way back to Lincoln who would have been impeached under the criteria the democrats have set.
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@zedvictor4
how about it's not a priority and I have better things to think about? you just aren't as important as you think you are.
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@zedvictor4
this thread is over a year old, I have no idea what it was about or what I was saying.
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@bmdrocks21
I could see people that only care about fixing our immigration system voting for him.
for all their education and "smarts" they still haven't been able to figure how and why Trump was elected. They certainly can't blame themselves right? This idea that only dumb people voted for him helps them sleep better at night since their teddy bears just are comforting enough. I love these threads, really I do. Who are the dumb people really, those who voted for Trump or those who treated others, conducted themselves etc that forced or made people want to vote for him?
They still don't care about the deplorables nor are they interested in winning them over, obviously. The division is growing and they like it that way.
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@bmdrocks21
some people said some things, heard some things from some people and repeated them, that probably sums it up best.
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@dustryder
you are breaking the lawsDo you understand the difference between:
and
you are violating people's constitutional rights
???
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@ethang5
And the sanctuary city movement.
sure and see how the are reacting to the sanctuary 2a movements in cities and counties, classic hypocrisy
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@DynamicSquid
when regards to nuclear power, yes we should prioritize and perfect as much as possible, nuclear power.
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@bmdrocks21
we don't care how many have failed before, we will succeed!!!! even if we have to destroy the constitution to do it!
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@bmdrocks21
exactly and also cry when precedent isn't followed or things are bipartisan, go figure.Yeah, pretty much. They both make rules for short-term convenience and then cry when it is used against them. Gotta love politics! :D
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@disgusted
I'm sure that made sense in your head but it makes no sense in your post, try again.
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@ebuc
the point is don't claim to be something you are not and knowingly act in a way contrary to what you claim you are. This is the "do as I say, not as I do" mentality. I'm not claiming both sides don't do that but at this point in time the left is claiming the high ground when they should not, they don't deserve to.
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@Greyparrot
funny how the left touts themselves as the morally superior party, such hypocrites and nasty people.
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@disgusted
calling people names bothers you? how about "super predator" did that bother you?
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@bmdrocks21
the "nuclear option" started the downward spiral on precedent imo thank Harry Reid who I can't say enough bad things about
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@Barney
yeah all they have to do it make it illegal for a doctor to perform a non medical reason abortion, very simple really.
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@Greyparrot
they should ban knives....oh wait nvm, whodda thought that ankle tracking bracelets wouldn't work, go figure.
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@3RU7AL
I didn't want to use any names, but since you keep bringing it up, Historybuff is/has been thus my post to point that out to G.P.
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@3RU7AL
that's not what I'm saying, what I'm saying is those who think Trump should turn everything over etc, arguing that an innocent person would do this because they live in some kind of fantasy land but don't apply that argument to the Bidens seems rather hypocritical don't you think?
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@Greyparrot
stupid for involving troops in certain wars, stupid for GIVING tax pay money to other countries. It's funny, the same people who say Americans are stupid would be quickly speaking a different language if it were not under the protection of the U.S.
watch the first season of "Man in the High Castle" it would be something like that.
it's time to let some of these countries sink or swim.
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@Greyparrot
don't you think it's funny that people and a certain someone here say if Trump is innocent he should release this, do that etc, so why do the Bidens not want the Ukraine to investigate if they have nothing to hide? They should have laughed it off and said sure knock yourself out! Isn't that was an innocent person would do? (using their logic)
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@3RU7AL
I'm talking about the legal definition
"suspicion are held until trial." they are not found guilty at that point, yes? if they are not guilty then they are innocent until proven otherwise.
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@3RU7AL
If suspects were presumed-innocent, they would be free to roam the streets until their court dates.
but that does happen, even without having to put up a bond/bail so I don't understand what you are talking about. (released on recognizance)
suspicion is not proof
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@HistoryBuff
The fact that they used unofficial communication channels (via giulliani), hid the transcript, refused to tell anyone why the aid was blocked, etc all show that they were hiding what they were doing. That is evidence of mens rea. They knew they were committing crimes.
this kind of jumped out at me after the fact, do you see any similarities to what you wrote there with Hillary Clinton's server, deleting emails and destroying the blackberry phones which were government property/issued? Because otherwise that sure would be hypocritical.
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@3RU7AL
I didn't say it, Mueller did, remember how wonderful everyone said he was until his findings came out and they turned on him? Yeah, that guy.
Trump as a certain level of skill at being crafty. Having done what he has over his life you'd learn how to be even by accident. Call it shrewd, whatever, he knows how to game the system to a certain degree. Walking and blurring the line is just business.
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@HistoryBuff
ahhh ok it looks like Trump has violated federal campaign finance laws. (maybe)
From the Mueller report
to establish a criminal campaign-finance violation, the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant acted “knowingly and willfully”—i.e., that the defendant knew generally that his conduct was unlawful. Yes, this peculiar area of election law allows defendants to escape liability for ignorance of the law.
And Mueller concluded he lacked evidence likely to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump campaign officials acted with knowledge that their conduct was illegal.
that's from your link btw you probably read the rest anyway
this has some good stuff imo
I don't believe and am not convinced it is as black and white as you seem to think it is.
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@HistoryBuff
based on what I read, the crimes are not defined and is up to Congress to do that, which hasn't happened yet, they set those conditions, vote on it then goes to the Senate which is where it will most likely die and or chief justice.
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@HistoryBuff
But the fact that they didn't tell anyone they were delaying it, and the people who found out weren't told why it was being delayed shows evidence of a guilty mind. They knew that delaying the aid for the reasons they had was wrong, so they didn't tell people they were doing it or why.
show me where they were obligated legally to tell anyone they were delaying it.
so couldn't the devil's advocate say that once they were informed it was wrong they corrected it, thus it wasn't an intentional crime but rather a mistake?
If you think that what you are doing is above board and legal, you don't try to hide the transcript of the call.
the same reason there as hundreds of videos which instruct you to plead the 5th and never talk to police w/o a lawyer, nothing good can come of it, their goal is to arrest or prove guilt, not innocence, given how things are often taken out of context or are down right lies I wouldn't reveal anything I didn't have to, that's just common sense.
it is not what innocent people do.
irrelevant, in the U.S. you are innocent until PROVEN guilty, thinking, inferring, assuming etc is not proof.
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@HistoryBuff
they refused to tell anyone why the aid was blocked and didn't tell anyone in congress about it at all
it is illegal to delay the aid? Was there a set delivery date? How long was it delayed? Has aid ever been delayed before by a previous administration? What law does a delay break?
the white house attorney, after receiving complaints about the call, put the transcript in a highly restricted computer (which is not a normal practice)
if it's not illegal then it's just partisan crying.
aspects of a guilty mind.
um no, what it says is he didn't think he needed or was required to tell anyone these things, thus he never intended to commit a crime, if in fact any of that is actually criminal which I haven't seen any statutes or anything that says it is.
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