Total posts: 3,383
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
There are community sports leagues that are not school sponsored. Parents could use part of their "school budget" to hire a music teacher or teach music themselves. I don't see either one of these as insurmountable "problems". There are also home-school clubs that offer group activities and competitions for members.
there are "home schoolers" who's parents have formed groups to hire a teacher for their children, they pay the teacher's salary etc in which case they should get their allotment of tax money they would use anyway, perhaps that money would be used more wisely and efficiently. I'm not going to pretend I understand all the finances of schools but some of the inefficiencies and waste is pretty obvious.
you want a citation for my observation and opinion? If I give you specifics I would be doxing myself.
let me ask you, this do you think schools down play their problems and try to hide them or are they 100% transparent?
the violence, fights and drugs in schools will be solved by giving the schools more money?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Snoopy
My mother taught me more than I learned from school while working full time, partly because she is a good mom, and partly because my educational system didn't afford very efficient use of my time. Music is encouraged in my family traditionally, but we usually work and learn something that is naturally of interest over sport.
do you think parental support like that at home makes students better? I mean I certainly would think so and that is probably more likely to be the case from people with wealth. Wealthy people tend to be more educated, more intelligent therefore place a higher priority on education for their children compared to others who didn't grow up that way. Seems logical in my mind which is why I say throwing more money isn't a good idea. Consider the state of some schools where the students rule over the teachers. Even here locally there are good and bad schools. The bad ones aren't because of funding but are bad because the students are violent. If parents aren't involved or don't care about their children's education all the money in the world isn't going to change that.
In most cases we are not getting our moneys worth, imo
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Greyparrot
Muslims are like a box of chocolates.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
a parent would provide a sports team? marching band or even music lessons etc huh don't know anyone who home schools that provides those things, do you?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ludofl3x
A fair point, which makes you a golf deist, then :) ? It's an imperfect analogy, I admit, but the point is that even though we can't see science working all the time, in every case some aspect of it IS working, at least whenever inquired upon. Would you say Jesus or some supernatural force had a hand in either of your eagles? Why or why not?
I have no idea, I can't prove it one way or the other, which is my general view on subjects such as this.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@disgusted
if you asked a coherent question rather than this inane drivel you try to push perhaps you'd get an answer, your attempt to be overly cleaver doesn't work.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
aLSo, as a point of curiosity, would you support giving parents the full dollar amount of the vouchers to pay them to home school their own children?
no because the amount goes for a variety of things not just direct teaching.
Vermont ($20,795 per pupil) is ranked #5 and Utah ($7,207 per pupil) is ranked #30.
ok but is being ranked 30 bad? what do those ranks mean? if it's just a comparison of schools it doesn't mean much if they are both meeting or exceeding standards.
Do you think wealthy people were generally better students? Wealth certainly helps with tutors and assistance outside of school that has nothing to do with taxes. Do these wealthy areas have a higher traditional family structure? Are these wealthy people more involved with pta and the schools?
I don't think it's as simplistic as throwing more money at them.
from you link.... lowest drop out rate #1 Iowa which is ranked #37 Alaska ranks #47 in highest drop out rate yet all the money they use.
budgets have been increased somewhere, and when they did was there an improvement? certainly some places received substantial increases
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Alec
an attempt to "take guns away" would lead to a civil war. Even in Venezuela not all the military is supportive of the current government, same would be true in the U.S.
A divided U.S. in a civil war would be the dream of places like China and Russia. When the dummies running for 2020 talk about this issue they are intentionally dividing citizens and you'd better believe other countries are watching and loving it.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@disgusted
it seems you do not understand. I have made NO affirmative claims but have brought up possibilities, theories. If YOU are making affirmative claims then YOU should explain and prove them.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ludofl3x
you'd really have to try and compare similar size schools in different areas to even see how much of a difference there is. Tax rates are different so I guess in a very wealthy area they would pay a lower % to get a similar amount as a less wealthy area. Not sure if a real comparison can be made. The amount of money doesn't necessarily translate to a better education since minimum standards must be met. Fancy schools have better athletics and other non academic activities. there have been some exceptional people who have come out of some of the worst schools and vice versa. Perhaps someone can show how throwing more money at something like this will fix the system?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Alec
we agree it needs fixing/addressing and has for a long time, we also agree about glass sizes and the quality of teachers, I always say you just need a degree to teach not the ability. I'd rather have a teacher with the ability to teach than a degree. Anyway, I generally want to fix what we can and are able first before adding more money or complications to the issue. That is one of my views as to what it means to be a conservative.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Alec
I believe there are a lot of opportunities to make the system better, use funds more wisely than to simply throw more money at it. the starting point to address or fix something is the beginning and what you already have (imo) until those things are done expanding and adding isn't a good solutions and probably will make things worse.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Alec
In order for teachers to do a better job, they need to get paid more.
so the current teachers aren't doing a good enough job then?
If more teachers are hired, it can cut class sizes in half so kids learn better.
are there no other ways to cut costs, waste or change things to allow to hire more teachers? are there enough teachers looking for jobs?
do you believe people with no degrees or 4 year or less degrees could be good teachers, people with real world and work experience?
what is the minimum amount a teacher has to be paid for them to be good at their job?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ludofl3x
the outcome may have been luck but not what put it in motion, not what started the event, which was you, intelligence. The ball wouldn't have gone anywhere were it not for you.
so either the beginning was random luck or by an intelligence, there could be other options I just don't know and can't think of any.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
Ok, (IFF) every child in the country actually gets the exact same voucher dollar value, (THEN) I'm on board 100%.
in the country wouldn't be possible or practical due to cost of living etc, but it should be as level a playing field as possible. I don't think a school in a very affluent area where property prices are sky high deserve more than kids in the next town over, somehow that needs to be more fair. Now if people want to donate then that's their choice. But I generally believe the amount should be fairly standard, they are give x amount, you make the most with it.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ludofl3x
it's not explaining what we know, we know what a hole in one is and all the things that can make it occur, the beginning of everything isn't so simple.
it's not dumb luck because it is exactly what you were trying to do and you did, you did everything in such a way that you made it happen, there is randomness we call luck sure but that's not on the same scale as the beginning of everything or life.
if you were not there would that hole in one happened? Nope, perhaps it didn't happen exactly as you wanted, but you started the events that lead to the hole in one, intelligent design.
I got an eagle on a par 4, never got a hole in one.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Goldtop
Yet, another ignorant, misrepresentation of science. Fasting sure causes the brain to not function very well.
perhaps for you it does but for many it does not, which is part of the reason for the keto diet, ketosis.
fasting promotes autophagy or do you deny science?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@janesix
I'm not a doctor but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.
IMO many things are food related.
If I had those symptoms I would cut out almost all carbs and sugars gradually as well as most foods.
A very basic diet will tell you if something you are eating is making you sick or not.
For example (assuming there's no allergy etc)
I would only eat wild caught salmon, broccoli,cabbage, cauliflower and eggs, that's it, every meal. If it made enough of a difference that I would continue on this diet I might slowly add things back into my diet until such a time as I started feeling bad or not as good in which case it was probably the thing just added, process of elimination.
I would strongly urge you and anyone else to learn about "insulin resistance" and how harmful it is, ways to reverse it and avoid it all together.
btw breakfast being the most important meal of the day is a myth and b.s.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ludofl3x
he didn't go into any real detail, but I'm not smarter than a brain surgeon, especially when it comes to the brain. Knowing everything he does about the brain which isn't everything that could be known, he was still humbled by it's design in function, simplicity and complexity etc.
I don't see it as an affirmative claim as you seem to indicate but rather the only logical explanation or reason for.
it seems there are 2 options for just about everything and the usual questions
random chance
intelligent design
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
whatever the cause or blame I fail to see how that moves the ball forward.
I guess what I'm trying to explain and articulate is the charter school concept and technical schools but in a more comprehensive way. If a child doesn't want to peruse science but excels at a trade then there shouldn't be barriers to that. In some places that opinion exists, sort of, they won't provide transportation and may include additional costs which is why I would argue that student has money earmarked and they should be able to choose how it's spent. A hybrid type system. Not I want to go to school x because my friends are there or their food is better, nothing so chaotic but logical, rational arguments should be entertained and accommodated more than the current system allows.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@janesix
I have learned more than I ever wanted to know about fasting, food, diets etc Mostly what I have learned is they are very individualistic. I've seen people fast for 40 days under supervision, my wife can easily fast for 48 hours (water only) I don't think I can, after a period of time I feel shaky and those who talk about fasting say when you feel you need to eat, eat. There's a lot of science and benefits to fasting not just for religious reasons. I "fast" usually from 6pm to 10-11 am and it does make a difference biologically.
as far as spirituality goes, can't help you there, I hope there is a creator/designer, whatever, and I hope I get to learn all the secrets of creation and everything, past, present and future.
Perhaps you need to think small and consider some of the wonders and things that science doesn't know or can't be explained.
Recently I was part of a conversation with a neurosurgeon who made the comment. (paraphrasing) When you open someone's head and see the brain and it's design, how it works how can you not believe that there is a God?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Alec
If we have more money, we can hire more or better teachers which can help prepare our students better for the world so they can be prosperous.
why can't we hire better teachers without adding more money in the equation?
why aren't the bad teachers replaced with ones that are better?
You don't need more money to do these things.
Do you think a little, some or a lot of improvements to the public school system can be made right now, today w/o any extra money?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
Most of the private schools charge more than the voucher provides.This leaves poor families and children with special needs with ZERO EDUCATION.
if the private schools want to take that amount or require the parents pay the difference, that's a choice
holding back better students to help special needs is wrong on many levels and imo is anti freedom and anti American, stifling potential for the sake of equality is counter productive.
there should be some kind of voucher system for gifted students at least and if that means they wish to attend a private school then they should have that option and whatever tax money is earmarked for that student that should follow them as well, it's going to be spent on them so let them decide how it should be spent.
it's funny how people say blacks are being held down which in reality is they are not being let out, which demographic makes up a majority in these shit hole schools, this could be a chance for some of them, with real promise, to escape and potentially give back to their very communities, how can that be a bad thing?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Alec
To better prepare our students for the real world so they get a goo life after school. School is an investment.
explain how that would work because I don't believe throwing more money at anything fixes it and very rarely makes it better and never makes it better to justify the increase.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
What happens to poor neighborhoods when the public school closes because half the kids took vouchers to go to the local Christian school?
then they will have to compete for those students by offering a better product. It's a double edged sword, there are very bright and talented kids suck in these shit hole schools because they don't have a voucher system. Imagine the lost talent because of how the current system is. The question is has the public school systems in these areas gotten better, worse or stagnant?
There's probably a hybrid of the current system with a voucher that would work and make sense. Unless you believe the current system is good the way it is, which I do not.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Alec
but I think it could use some more funding too.
why?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Snoopy
voucher systems sounds like a better idea then the current state of many schools and it should be up to the individual as to which school and type of, they apply the voucher to.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
it takes a lot of faith to get vaccines if you really think about it, I sure do love irony.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
Ok, as another example, if someone believed their taxes were supporting an immoral war, would it be acceptable for them to refuse to pay?
you'd have to assume that's what the taxes were going towards it's not a direct support imo however you don't have to pay taxes if you don't work, it is a choice.
And if someone said their religion required that unwed women have abortions, could conservatives reasonably object?
of course life > everything else generally
And if freedom of speech is sacrosanct, should someone be fired for expressing white-nationalist opinions?
they could be, as an employee you agree to the terms and conditions of the employer by accepting the job. essentially you've waived your rights by doing so.
I just don't think giving (almost) everyone a free-pass is a sustainable solution.
I don't consider it a free pass because there can be consequences when exercising your freedoms, but it should be the individuals decision to make that choice understanding potential consequences.
there can be a price to pay for freedom, nothing is free.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ludofl3x
people do and should have the right to legal protest etc, just because you exercise a freedom does not me there can't be consequences for it.
I've worked in a pediatric office for 2 1/2 years now and it's not all that uncommon for parents to wait for vaccines sometimes going years before getting the recommended or needed ones, with no real logical reason other than being dumb or lazy.
Every medication or vaccine has a potential risk, though not as big of a one as the diseases they can prevent in most cases.
Isolation for medical reasons is not discrimination.
expressing your religion is freedom of expression, I see no difference.
Now with all that said measles is certainly uncomfortable and any severe complications seems on par % wise with those who will not develop immunity from the vaccine.
and I'm sure that data is very old since the vaccine has been out for some time. of those who have contracted it recently I have not heard of any deaths or permanent disability as a result of their infection.
what I'm getting at is there are risks to both, getting the vaccine and not getting the vaccine. The choice should be theirs generally speaking and should not be forced upon them by people with guns (law enforcement). Though there are and can be consequences for those choices.
When discussing this issue with my wife she informed me there are other vaccines that have religious objections as well, because they are derived or someone made with human cells. I have not verified this or know which ones she is referring to. The objection for some of these vaccines is because pigs are used in some way. Most insulin is derived from pigs, though you can get actual human insulin.
Freedom is only needed to make bad, unpopular, objectionable etc decisions. If society was more homogeneous we wouldn't have many of these issue because everyone would be the same, ironic when you think about those promoting diversity lol but I digress.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
the hair issue would be a non issue now a days for certain
as far as kosher goes that should not be the state's call to decide, but certainly to question, separation of church and state, but up to the rabbi to make that determination.
if there is to be freedom of religion a lot of it has to be taken at face value otherwise freedom of religion couldn't exist, but everything must be tempered as to minimize abuse.
these are not choices I would personally make but feel an obligation that we should support them because there is probably a time or times when our choices might not be agreeable but we would want support for them as well.
the strict teachings of many things are all falling by the wayside, including formality, manners, respect etc, eventually humanity will be on homogeneous bland thing with little to no difference, biological automatons as there will be little to nothing for anyone to disagree on with any real conviction or passion. Whether that is good or bad we'll never know and it doesn't matter anyway. So while we can we should preserve as much individualism and uniqueness as we can imo, but that must also include things we don't like and disagree with, drawing the line at bonafide harmful things like actual violence.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@K_Michael
But I do believe that minimizing pain is the right thing to do.
I do as well and try to only support ethically treated and grown animals. I DO NOT believe in hunting for sport, just to kill. Maximum use and benefit should be used from any animal killed.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
FOR EXAMPLE, if you want a kosher meal in prison, you can't get one unless you ALSO observe the Sabbath and say your morning and evening prayers and generally FOLLOW the other rules and can demonstrate some understanding of these to a rabbi.
always? more than 50% of the time? what are the specifics for these conditional rules I don't know them. show me the text.
The non-vaccers CAN'T infect the vaccinated kids.
extremely unlikely but for that I'll give you a KABOOM!
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ludofl3x
I don't understand this question. The remedy for what?
you don't appear to want to allow a religious objection to vaccinations, correct?
if someone says religious objection, you say no, they stand on their religious objection, what then? what do you do? how do you remedy the situation? what's the solution?
btw having bodily autonomy also means NOT doing something with it or having something done to it, it doesn't just apply to killing things, if you don't believe in the slogan "my body my choice" that's find but if you do it would not be accurate if you limit that choice would it?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ludofl3x
If they are allowed in public schools and then infect an entire classroom, is that fair to the families whose religions do NOT object to vaccination?
I don't believe children are allowed to attend school if they are not vaccinated unless there is a religious objection. So is at risk then, children who are not vaccinated. Who can go to school not vaccinated. those with a religious objection. who can potentially become sick. those who are not vaccinated which should only be the ones with religious objections and those for whom the vaccine will not work.
The problem is that these measle carrying kids come into contact with children who have only gotten the first MMR (it requires a booster which means you aren't fully immune with only one shot),
I don't believe that to be true
"Children should get two doses of MMR vaccine, starting with the first dose at 12 to 15 months of age, and the second dose at 4 through 6 years of age."
are you saying they aren't immune until, at the earliest, 4 years of age?
"How Well Does the MMR Vaccine Work?
One dose of MMR vaccine is 93% effective against measles, 78% effective against mumps, and 97% effective against rubella.
Two doses of MMR vaccine are 97% effective against measles and 88% effective against mumps."
Two doses of MMR vaccine are 97% effective against measles and 88% effective against mumps."
so I'll ask you for the 2nd time
"What's the remedy for people who refuse vaccines? If someone refused then what?"
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
Which Church says homosexuality is worse than adultery?
since we are talking about legal situations and discrimination I'm not sure that is a relevant legal argument. Can you give me some laws or cases that prove all sins must be equal to claim a religious objection?
I understand you have a personal problem with what you consider hypocrisy/inconsistency but unless you can show how this comes into play legally within the context of the topics, you are just spinning your wheels.
From what I understand religious teachings are also based on interpretation of written text which is why there are disagreements as to how or why somethings are interpreted they way they are. but you know this already. and knowing this you know it's not possible to "just show you the text" even you your self have argued about how certain religious things are or have been interpreted. I'm not making any religious objection perhaps you should ask those who do but I can understand how and why someone might.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ludofl3x
I bring up the cake issue because it's specific enough for what I find acceptable, that no one should have to custom create something they don't want to, no one has a right to someone else's labor.
The bible speaks specifically about homosexuality I'm not sure what the argument against vaccines etc is, if you do and feel like explaining it I will certainly read it.
What's the remedy for people who refuse vaccines? If someone refused then what?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
he's working for someone else and is asked to serve, not custom create, totally different subjects.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
A religious objection is not carte-blanche to follow whatever passing whim you might decide for yourself on the spur-of-the-moment.
thanks captain obvious, must be why I qualified the statement with "degree"
is considered either mandatory or specifically prohibited
afaik homosexuality is a sin and I believe you agree how it is viewed by some religions. if aiding, enabling etc in a sin makes you complicit your complaint is "what about the other sins" we are now going in circles, different churches teach different things with different emphasis on sins, subjects etc if they teach, believe that some sins are greater or minor, whatever, for you that invalidates their religion/church and and claims they could make to a religious objection (it's all or nothing with you) however the government does not take away their status as a church/religion afaik. Whether you are right or wrong doesn't matter because it would seem it's acceptable because their status is not taken or made invalid by the government who rules over these issues/cases.
by your opinion there could never be a religious objection because I don't believe there is one single religion/church that treats all sins the same or equally. Because there is a freedom of religion right, separation of church and state, the government has limited authority to make such rulings using the all or nothing argument like you would have them do.
you've successfully made me see the reason these laws come up and people fight so hard for them lol.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@K_Michael
i.c. I don't think you can quantify pain or feels in animals, even people have different pain thresholds. We also don't know for certain they process or feel pain like humans since they can't articulate it, we can assume and guess but that's all, hence the word anthropomorphize. While I think we should do everything we can to minimize potential suffering etc in animals just in case that isn't enough evidence to make me want to stop eating meat.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
If the Church chooses not to host gay weddings (themselves, at their own Church), this has absolutely no bearing on whether or not individual members are allowed to attend or otherwise participate in gay weddings (at any other location).
not talking about if they are allowed, but if the practice and teaching parishioners to not recognize gay marriages, then again it's consistent for an individual to also do the same.
Sure, but the one thing does not make the other thing mandatory. It's not a RULE. There's no rule that says "don't make gay cakes".
right not mandatory, which also means they can choose to follow it in the way they think and interpret is best, which for some means no gay wedding cakes. this is very consistent, those who would attend a gay wedding or otherwise support it are the ones not being consistent when in contrast to the teachings.
as for specifics, if the baker was NOT in line with the teachings of his church/faith that would have been the primary point against him, I don't ever recall any such thing therefore it must have been consistent afaik.
it is widely known and accepted there are different interpretations/teachings based on the same books otherwise there could only be one church which could receive tax exempt status etc from the government, yet we know there are many. Therefore your claim of inconsistency/hypocrisy doesn't matter as far as allowing some "sins" but not others, i.e. remarrying divorced people.
It has been shown how the baker's objection is consistent and must be accepted by the government on that basis as they already accept different churches and interpretations of the same book and recognize them as a church/religion. Freedom of religion and separation of from government must also include to a large degree non enforcement of practice and interpretation by the government.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@K_Michael
I'm not saying they don't run away and don't need to be tracked, not sure how you got that from what I said. But yes they do get shot in the lungs run off of varying distances, lay down and die. This does not indicate suffering. I'm not saying they don't suffer or how that is even defined but I have not read any such evidence to suggest it.
people lose deer and make lots of unintended mistakes about a great many things, like car accidents, should be ban everything that people can make a mistake with that ends up in a bad outcome?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
@Snoopy
Marriage has nothing to do with "gay". If you make the vow and say I do, the both of you in totality are in it for better or worse. You don't marry attraction. You don't marry love. You marry a person, all of them, through it all.
marriage is a contract which was used to join families to gain power, strength and land etc. At the very core it is a contract/agreement, nothing more.
um ok? that is talking about the individuals rather the person whom the service is being requested ie a gay marriage. I'm libertarian on this issue which is why I support the person who does not want to do something, I don't care if or what reason is given. in context of course.
@3RU7AL
Only if the Church has a written rule specifically prohibiting making cakes for gay weddings.
that means an individual can't make any interpretation or value judgement for them selves and they don't have a choice.
The Church itself may choose not to host gay weddings. [LINK] This alone does not prohibit members from attending or otherwise participating in gay weddings.
which is contradicted by the above. So in the first sentence you state the Church makes the rules which must be followed but in the 2nd you say individuals have choice, which is it?
If a church does not recognize gay marriage and will not perform any ceremonies for, then it would stand to reason that members might not choose to support gay marriages/weddings would it not? From their p.o.v. gay weddings are like space aliens, people talk about them but they don't really exist.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@K_Michael
I don't hunt but have known a lot of people who do. Deer basically lay down and die, they don't thrash about or show any signs of pain or agony. I'm not certain what their brains are actually capable of. They can't know they are dying because they don't know they are alive.
Pain is just a neurological response to a stimuli. We generally don't like it, but does that mean it's bad?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
they don't teach enough life skills and critical thinking, thinking for themselves, especially now. I have yet to see any system that has been fixed just by throwing money at it. We should actually remove some funding for colleges which will force them to lower the costs and or get rid of some of the asinine degrees they concocted.
What's scary is you just need a degree to teach you don't need any actual skill or desire. At one time there was a teacher shortage. To fill the positions they transitioned people who were in jobs for a prescribed period of time to be a teacher. Imagine someone who has created and ran their own business successfully for 10 years, or worked in business, they probably can do a pretty good job teaching it if they had a passion for it. Though I think the really successful people sell their knowledge in the form of books and courses.
Most current curriculums teach some really useless shit but ignore the important life skills that they actually need to learn.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@disgusted
I get that part 3RU7AL has been saying it, what you seem to not understand from my post was, it's perfectly legal to not marry gays but marry everyone else, so hypocrisy doesn't seem to apply does it?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@disgusted
You are not arguing legality you are arguing religiosity and there is no religious consistency with the religious objection to same sex marriage
I'm not sure I follow, if you won't marry gays and that is the practice and policy of the church he attends, then it would be consistent to not preform a duty that would directly support or legitimize a gay wedding.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@3RU7AL
he same level of scrutiny would seem to apply to the cake man. You can't just refuse service to homos because they are "sinners" and then cheerily serve every other "sinner" (divorcee, adulterer, murder, thief, tax cheat, Sabbath violator) that walks through your door.
can someone who preforms religious marriages refuse to wed a gay couple for religious objection? I believe the law says yes even if they remarry divorced people. So I'm not convinced on this consistency standard you bring up because there are many examples that show your consistency objection isn't important legally.
The cake guy makes cakes for everyone EXCEPT the gays. TONS of other "sinners" pay him good money every day.
he makes cakes anyone can buy including gays, he does not make cakes for gay weddings only, you accused me of being inaccurate, how ironic.
Created: