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@Discipulus_Didicit
Cool story. A theist can also make a story like yours because it is an anecdote so...
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@HistoryBuff
Biden not Bernie.Bernie says dumb shite. Don't think he would be good for foreign relations.
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@Imabench
I think it is short sighted. Instead of finding actual critiques they are finding things that are not relevant today. Moving away from actual critiques or maybe there was no good critique to give.
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@HistoryBuff
Above.
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Which flaws specifically? Are you unable to see the massive flaws of Biden?
Bernie says dumb shite. Don't think he would be good for foreign relations.
Bernie thinks rent control is a good idea. Bernie also states outrageous budgets for his policies.
An excellent example of reductio ad absurdum. Obama uses a plan that was thought up by the right wing a few year before. clearly that is exactly the same as going back almost 200 years.
You didn't even demonstrate how it is was reductio ad absurdum. Your argument was x originally was Republican therefore it can't be a Democrat idea or something left wing. I use the same argument that you used and you didn't even understand it.
How is the ACA right wing when it is a public option? You still have answered this. You are moving from the points like you have done so many time before.
It was a plan to make a small change to sand off some of the roughest edges of a broken system. A right wing think tank came up with the idea to protect corporate profits. It is not a left wing plan.
So a public option is not left wing?
Is capitalism right wing as well?
Answer the questions.
1) Biden isn't left wing. His support mostly comes from the right wing of the democratic party, rich people, and people who just like him because he was Obama's VP.
Data.
2) warren is using left wing plans. Whether or not she will carry through with them remains to be seen.
Bernie is using left wing plans as well. Please argue against what I said.
Warren isn't taking corporate donations.
This was about fundraising. Do you have a hate-boner for capitalism as well? It wouldn't be surprising.
Biden is spending all his time sucking up to millionaires telling them that nothing will change if he is elected. That is not a selling point for Biden. It is one of his massive handicaps.
Data and tell my why I should care about your purity tests when winning the election matters more?
Which part of that statement are you saying I can't back up?
Tell me how Hillary has 0 values.
Do you actually believe that? You think that hilary being an unlikable candidate that few wanted to vote for was Bernie's fault?
Bernie lost to Hillary. This can mean she is more likable. If Bernie was more likable he could've been the front-runner.
She was a right wing democrat.
Evidence? Not a single thing you have supported with evidence. You are basically a talk show host afraid to know about reality instead talk about a complex universe you have.
If democrats want to win they need a candidate that actually appeals to their own party instead of trying to pick one that will appeal to republicans that would never vote for them anyway.
Tell me the Democratic roots. Back when the party started or are you using some arbitrary starting point so that your socialist worldview looks better.
Lets look at favorability polling then. Here are the favorability polls for Bernie and Biden. Bernie's spread is about +20 in recent polls. Biden's is about 0. Just because people are willing to park their vote with someone they think can win, doesn't mean they like them or agree with their policies.
Your polling doesn't matter just like your purity tests. Votes matter not about who likes who.
They defend and push for terrible trade policies.
Trade policies are anti-protectionism which is a good thing. Given socialist and far right wingers are protectionists trade policies approval can be on either side but I still think it resides with the left. Here is the link to state why free trade is much better than protectionism.
they supported stupid, aggressive foreign wars.
Doesn't make them right wing.
Hilary co-sponsored a bill to criminalize flag burning which is part of her right wing jingoism.
This was in 2005. This wasn't leading up to the election. Stop cherrypicking data to suit your narrative instead make a good faith effort in taking their most recent ideas and have an objection to that.
Biden's 1994 tough on crime bill. Support for the death penalty.
This is not even in the 21st Century. Please come back to me with a proposal that he has done. I don't care about your purity tests of an all-good Jesus straight from the day they were born. I care more about what a person wants to do now.
I will acknowledge that researching this list made me see she is not as right as I had thought.
Now you understand how I feel where you point out outrageous claims I guess you got from left wing ideologues like Kyle Kulinski, Michael Brooks, Sam Seder or JImmy Dore.
She does support some moderately progressive things. She was still a very unlikable candidate though.
Well thank you for acknowledging people change and what happens a decade ago isn't a representation of them now or at the very least unfair to criticize when they haven't tried to implement that currently.
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@HistoryBuff
Biden has never set foot on stage with Trump. Biden is also pretty quiet about what he really believes. So alot of that support is basically generic democrat vs Trump. If biden won the nomination and had to compete against Trump he would get torn apart. Biden has decades of bad votes and support of bad policies for trump to drag him through the mud with.
More fantasy or to put into terms you understand trying so hard to put Biden in a bad light while not acknowledging the problems of Bernie. Are you incapable in knowing the flaws of your favorite?
Some of them have moved to warren because they think she might be more electable. That wont save Biden though.
What does that have to do with Bernie losing?
You're kidding right? the ACA was originally a plan by a right wing think tank (the heritage foundation)
Are you actually going to make that argument? Originally back in 1828 the Democrats were against education reform. Why are Democrats do going back against what was the original party? Realize how nonsensical it is to compare how something starts to its impacts.
As i said, the ACA is a right wing plan.
No it isn't. A public option is left wing. Do you not comprehend that?
So to beat evil, you have to be evil? What is the point of getting a democrat elected if they are just going to be right wing anyway?
If left wing ideas were so unpopular Warren or Biden wouldn't be getting the support they have but they do. They are not busy not accepting fundraisers and accepting your other purity tests to make actual change happen not like Bernie over there who is steadily decreasing in the polls.
The path to winning is by convincing people that left leaning ideas are the right ones, not by moving the democratic party to the right.
The path to winning is winning swing states. Do you even know how to win? You don't win by telling as much people your ideas. You win by having them vote for you.
But Trump was a democrat a few years ago, he doesn't actually believe in anything except money and fame.
Warren was a Republican. What is your point? Are you going to selectively pick out things from people's past even though there is more current data of they have done. Trump isn't a Democrat. He is a Republican. Is that not clear to you? I have already given countless examples without you giving a single one to say he is a Democrat.
But someone with 0 values at all was still able to beat hilary.
I get it you have a hate-boner for Hillary. The thing I don't get is that how you can't even back anything up.
And do you know who is now in the lead? Warren, another progressive. You say sanders isn't winning so left wing ideas must be wrong. But a solid chunk of Warren's campaign are Sanders' ideas.
It is called taking the good ideas and leaving out the bad. That is what people should do. Bernie doesn't realize how bad rent control is.
Biden's plan will still keep millions of poor people from getting heathcare. because of that, many people will die. Bernie's plan means everyone gets healthcare. No one needs to die because they can't afford healthcare. Ergo, Biden is planning to let poor people die and bernie's is not.
More like instead of Bernie being more palatable he is let a lot of people die because of his purity tests he has allowed a person like Trump to win and remove the ACA. The only form of public option. Bernie is more at fault with this then a hypothetical event that Biden's plan doesn't help x amount of people. Even if I grant you that it would have helped much more than Bernie which didn't even get elected to do anything.
What complaints?
The polling I made points against. You defending your views on Hillary. You defending your views on neo-liberalism. You defending Bernie is popular. You defending Biden and Hillary are right wing. You defending AOC being good at anything. There is more but lets keep with that.
Biden still has a very slight lead. but they are all in a statistical tie.This is the IBD/TIPP for october 7thBiden 51, Trump 44Warren 48, Trump 46Sanders 49, Trump 45
Missing out the poll data that has Bernie the Democratic front-runner spot so he doesn't even matter.
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@HistoryBuff
No, people like bernie and AOC are redefining what left means.
AOC is economically incapable so if she is changing people she is making them stupid. Bernie did good but also demonstrated vitriol to the Democratic party that does cost them elections. Do you want Republicans to win or something?
People like the clintons have been so far right for so long that people started thinking that was the center. so even moderately left candidates seem crazy.
Your biased if you think this way. She isn't "so far right" she is a left winger which is why she was a Democrat not a Republican.
He is actively working to stop all poor people from getting health care. That is an immutable fact.
Moving the goalpost from:
Biden's plan lets poor people die.
Instead of actually defending your point you instead make a more defensible point. Why did you change what you said and tell me how he is actively stopping people from getting healthcare. Make sure I can't make the same argument against Bernie.
Seriously? Hilary lost because she was a terrible right wing candidate no one really wanted. It is right wing policies that keep costing dems elections.
Lets say I agree. Who did Hillary beat again? Bernie.
I don't agree. Hillary is not a right wing to any normal standard. She wanted ACA or better. Please instead of stating outrageous claims take the time to actually support your idea with evidence.
The head to heads of bernie vs trump show him winning by the 2nd highest margin. Clearly he is popular. There are just alot of people who are afraid that he isn't "electable" because news outlets won't stop saying it, so they park their vote with someone they perceive as having a better chance of winning.
You are not even addressing my complaints. I am getting from this you can't actually defend your points instead resort to pivoting to other things in hopes I don't have a good enough counter. You have basically shown your best point of Bernie being popular is indefensible so you have resorted to weaker positions.
Show me evidence that he has the 2nd highest margin if he wins and who is first? I am guessing Biden.
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Most of the democratic party. They sold out to their millionaire donors and stopped doing what was best for their constituents and started doing what was best their donors.
Name one person. A specific action and also define a neo-liberal.
That's not a revolution, that is reform.
Okay. What would you do if it was Biden vs Trump? Specifically about voting.
Running a candidate like Biden, who is to the right of hilary on some issues, is crazy and stupid.
Pretty much every single poll has Biden winning against Trump.
As I said, warren would be an acceptable choice, biden would not. The dems need reform. Biden is worse than hilary. If that is the candidate they push through, then they have learned nothing from their mistakes.
Would you vote for Biden if it was him against Trump?
Bernie's supporters are energized
If energized you mean steadily decreasing then you are correct.
They would walk through fire to vote for him. Biden's supporters are not. They don't particularly like him or the things he says. They support him because they think he can win, or he was VP to a black president, or because they are afraid of change. That is soft support. Those are voters that would change their mind if Biden no longer looks like he can win.
Can't even be bothered to speak about fantasy.
my point was that she has trouble looking relatable. Her cringey "i think i'll get a beer", her pretending to be native, her lying about getting fired for being pregnant etc. She is Harvard professor and she acts like it. She has trouble being relatable because she has to fake much of it.
More fantasy. Looking at the link above ("steadily increasing" one) she is steadily increasing. Your fantasy doesn't align with reality where she has surpassed Biden.
Virtually no one on the left supports Biden.
Either you are ignorant or you are intentionally ignorant. Biden is left. Just not left enough for you. Please don't ask others to conform to your socialist worldview. ACA as a policy makes you a left winger because it closely aligns with the left than it ever did with the right.
Biden's ideas are right leaning. If someone likes Biden's ideas, they aren't left wing or they don't understand Biden's ideas/history.
ACA. Heard of that? I am guessing you haven't. It is a public option. That is a left leaning policy. Come back to me when a right winger wants a public options as well.
But that means he has already won. Even if he doesn't become president, his ideas have taken over. He has changed the landscape of his party. Very few people can say that. Not all presidents can say that.
Trump changed the party by getting almost everyone supporting him. Obama changed the country with the ACA. Every single president has changed something. Don't leave out that just so Bernie looks better than he is. He is an old man who might even pull out for medical reasons given his heart attack.
Are you kidding? She, and people like her, are the future of the democratic party.
She is a disgrace to the Democratic and only hinders their efforts in regaining public control.
Basically what you are saying is that the only way to beat the republicans is pretend to be them.
If that means winning elections then yes. Purity tests don't win elections. Please do that in the comfort of your own home with AOC while every single other person advocates to win the election then reform it when in charge not cry about it when they have no power to make things happen.
Do you think trump is actually right wing? He's not.
His conspiracy theories about Obama. His reduction in taxes. Removal of the ACA. Right wing enough for me but for some reason Biden is right wing but Trump isn't? Okay guess this is HistoryBuff's worldview not a socialist one.
You don't win by going right, you win by convincing people they are better off with medicare for all. Once people realize that they don't have to go bankrupt to get medical care, the republicans will not be able to compete with that.
Bernie has said this but as you can see from polls he is steadily decreasing. Your fantasy doesn't align with reality.
No they're not. They agree on parts of it. But they wildly differ on lots of issues
False unless you have polling data that includes Trump.
87% of Republicans approve of what Trump has done. The facts are on my side.
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True Neutral
You view the world in an unbiased manner, acting mostly on either your own self interest or on the best objective course. This can mean you enjoy creating balance between all forces, meaning you may do actions that involve Good as well as Evil, respecting authority like Lawful with the skepticism of Chaotic; or, you may simply draw your line in the sand, and go your separate way. This develops you into the archetypal "on-the-fence" person.
72%
Chaotic Neutral
57%
Chaotic Good
55%
Neutral Evil
49%
Neutral Good
49%
Chaotic Evil
47%
Lawful Evil
38%
Lawful Neutral
32%
Lawful Good.
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@HistoryBuff
The current "norms" were created by corrupt neo-libs.
Who are the corrupt neo-libs and what did they do?
Why would anyone want to conform to a broken system in an attempt to fix the system? You will just end up corrupted by the system.
Your a revolutionist. I think you will be waiting a long time for anything like that to happen.
The best of 2 bad options still isn't good. Why settle for less terrible, when you can have something actually good?
When you have Biden/Warren vs Trump there is a better option. Do you understand that or are you on the side of abstaining on voting just because you don't get your socialist revolution?
No, Biden's plan leaves millions of people uncovered.
Lets say that is true. How many will be covered with Biden's ACA than the current one?
I'm saying why would you pick someone who wants to leave millions of people without healthcare when there are candidates that will cover everyone?
I much rather have something than nothing. Is Bernie anywhere near beating Biden or Warren? No so what do you have against the ACA or I am guessing Warren's single payer healthcare?
The neo-liberal policies put in place by dems failed. Dems promised to help people, then took actions that hurt them or at best did very little to help. This contributed to their significant political loses.
Define neo-liberalism.
Show me a neo-liberal policy and show the impact of it.
Biden's support is soft.
He is beating Bernie so he his harder than the softy Bernie.
Warren's ability to look relateable is iffy. Warren is the most likely candidate to win at this point.
Which is what wins elections. It is a democracy. The most popular person wins if we go by states not people. Relatability is helpful in winning.
Economically, most Americans are worse off.
False. Nothing compares to the internet. Not even talking about other advancements in medicine and convenience on top.
The constant attacks on unions and deregulation of corporations has lead to the economy being designed around making the rich as rich as possible.
Unions care about the interest of the unionists just as a business cares about their employees. Tell me difference if you can think of one.
Deregulation is only bad if the negatives outweigh the positives.
The middle class is a shadow of it's former self.
Yeah I know. Back in 1933 they didn't have the internet. I feel so sorry for them.
I'm saying we need a new populist leader to actually get things done to improve the lives of the people. Anyone who takes big checks from corporations isn't going to do that.
Either you want a strand of communism or socialism you require rich people. They are required for the economy.
Are you kidding, the left is already winning.
You completely missed that I am talking about the left supporting Bernie. They don't. They support Warren and Biden over Bernie.
The entire conversation has taken a huge jump to left.
Sure I can accept Bernie did have an impact on medicare being palatable. Too bad other party members do a better job at presenting it or using it to improve themselves in the polls.
People like A.O.C has shown people that long standing neo-libs are vulnerable.
AOC is awful. She is awful for the Democratic party. She endangers the swing states by her bad rhetoric in her comfy blue state. The election is won if either party wins swing states. I wish she can shut her mouth so that other members trying really hard to win Republican or tied states so that the Democrats have a chance of winning. Remember a Democrat is better than a Republican. If you want Republicans to win please tell her to rag on moderate Democrats so that they lose and you can guarantee another term with Trump but if you don't try and realize the problem the Justice Dems in winning elections. This is not even talking about how politically ineffective she is. Remember the Green New Deal?
I think we are likely to see either a general shift left in the democratic party as neo-libs get scared of their primary challengers and have to move, or we will see alot of neo-libs go the way of Joe Crowley.
When you talk about semantics or who is part of the socialist revolution or not, the Republicans are agreed on what they are going to do. That is the problem. You and people like Bernie, AOC fracture the left making it more lean to an independent vote or a Republican one. This is politically ineffective even if you wanted a socialist revolution.
Biden's plan lets poor people die. I am opposed to letting poor people die when it can be prevented. Am I willing to support someone who advocates for letting poor people die? no.
Does Biden go into their homes and shoot them or something? No so stop with the outrageous claims. Please demonstrate how Biden kills people. Do you need the definition? I'll go by your definition. Every single time Bernie opens his mouth about an unpopular take instead of passing laws or trying to win the election people are dying. Instead of winning during 2016 he lost and that lead to Trump. Bernie can be blamed by that if we go by your ridiculous standard.
Sanders is the best choice, warren would also be acceptable. Virtually all of the rest of the field are basically more of the same candidates.
Okay.
Note that you also pretty much didn't even bother to challenge my criticisms of Bernie being popular.
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@HistoryBuff
Authentic means telling people what you really think and really want. Bernie has been doing that for decades. How can you reinvent yourself if you have always been telling people what you really think. The reason other politicians can do that is because they just pretend they are someone else now. That is a bad thing.
You are using a more charitable view. Things change and ideas must also change. If you want reform you do it by accepting current norms so that you can win and hopefully do what you wanted in the first place. What we have seen with Bernie is that his not accepting societal norms has lead to his downfall which can be seen to the polls. Bernie has pretty much lost the election because he stayed the way he was. This is bad if you want change and bad if you want to do anything in politics. Unless of course Bernie is a secret revolutionary waiting for the perfect time for a bloody revolution. Don't think so. Pretty much screwed himself the election.
That's a bit like saying the republicans want to cut off your leg with a chainsaw. The dems just want to cut off your foot. Both are bad, 1 is less bad. The republicans' plan is to let poor people die. The dems' plan is to only let some poor people die.
Again with this 1 equals less bad. You don't understand 1 is also the best. You are biased and you are showing that again. Even the example of the chainsaw and cutting is not the same when you are a family which needs helps right now. Are you going to go to a poor diabetic person and say look I can't exactly get what I want so I won't help you get someone like Biden in charge. You are pretty much saying you don't care about poor people you only care about your socialist fantasies. At that time the person could be dead and in an even worse position given these revolutions don't happen overnight. Thankfully poor people will vote for Biden because they understand what they need not something that they want like a socialist revolution.
1) dems lost over 1,000 seats during Obama's tenure. He gave people hope that he would bring change. Then he failed miserably by only making small changes to a broken system.
How was this the fault of neo-liberalism?
2) Trump. People elected trump because they wanted a change. Going back and forth between failed neo-cons and failed neo-libs was just making their lives worse. So they turned to an extreme answer. Going back to the neo-lib model will only make things worse. The dems need to learn from their failures.
Same question above.
Dems just want to make rich people's lives better and don't particularly want to do much to help poor people. Neglect is better than active antagonism.
False almost every top Democrats wants a form of public option. That alone will help the poor more than the rich because would have to pay more for a I think a less effective system but the poor would have to be pay less for a system they might not have access too.
FDR and the new deal
Why are you looking a snippet of history instead of the events around it? You are clearly missing the quality of life being better now. Clearly missing trans rights. Clearly missing out homosexuality wasn't even illegal. Why are you missing out the bad of FDR presidency and not realizing we live in a better time than we did in the past?
The message of fighting against the corruption of the current system is exactly what people want. Picking someone who revels in that corruption, like Biden, is the best chance dems have at giving trump a 2nd term.
This doesn't demonstrate how my position is self-defeating. It just shows you don't accept the reality that a person like Bernie is losing and decreasing in the polls. Populism worked because of the economic point of view. Bernie does not offer that nor did Trump. Trump pretty much made empty promises whether it be the removal of corruption and bringing back jobs. Bernie can't even get the left on his side to win. Seems to me like populism only works if people actually believe the bs about the poor vs the rich.
They aren't scared yet. But if he wins they will be.
Lol. You still think he is going to win. That is a major if and if you actually think he has a chance with recent polling to look at please look at it again.
It is certainly possible that Sanders wont win. In that case Warren would be an acceptable 2nd choice. Biden would not be acceptable. Dems need to learn that Neo-liberalism is dead.
That is why people like you don't understand how it works. You have to beat the system in order to enact change. Swing states are key to winning and if you abstain just because Biden is the nominee you have not only let Republicans win with that attitude you have also cost the lives of people who urgently need care. Biden wants the ACA. ACA is better than nothing. You do know that right?
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@HistoryBuff
Medicare for all has polled at 70% support. It varies considerably in many cases if the question is framed in a right wing way. But it is still very popular as highlighted by the fact that most dem candidates have ripped it off.
Present a poll for this. You did for others why can't you for this? I am not accepting this as a self-evidence.
Increasing taxes on the rich is also very popular. Here is a poll that shows 76% of voters want taxes on the wealthy increased.
Are you saying this is a bernie position? This link is supporting Warren:
"Politico found that 61% of Americans are in favor of a “wealth tax”proposed by Democrat presidential candidate Sen. Elizabeth Warren from Massachusetts, which would increase taxes on those with a net worth of $50 million or more. "
Come back to me with a Bernie proposition supported with polling.
Here is a poll showing 58% of voters support free college and eliminating tuition debt
Looking at the poll:
1,004 people were polled. Meaning the margin of error is 2% on either side. So the data can be read anywhere between 56% to 60% and/or 40% to 44%.
If we look at the breakdown of voters we see that 37% of Democrats were asked whereas there was 32% of Republicans asked.
From what I can gather this isn't exactly a popular idea. In this case 1,004 would much rather have free college and eliminate tuition debt but that is only about 58%. What I also didn't like about the poll is when they had 29% of independents voting. This is because realisitcally a Democrat or Republican will be in office later on. Meaning there vote is wasted if they do not vote for either side. If they did vote for either side that alone should be enough to state they are on either. That problem alone is a flaw in this because moderates do not win elections. It is the voters on either side in a swing state.
Here is polling showing that left leaning environmental policies are popular
"Shockingly, the idea was more popular than not, with 48 percent of respondents in support and 7 percent undecided. Only when pollsters told people that a Green New Deal could cost $93 trillion did support for the idea collapse. But according to the GOP group’s own math, a Green New Deal that focused only on climate change could cost only $13 trillion."
Clear example of poisoning the well. State a good idea while leaving out the bad. This even makes clear when people are brought about how much it would cost they understand they would be the ones paying for it which is why the support collapsed.
"1. A national recycling program for commodities"
The graph only states what people are for or not. It doesn't tell them how much it would cost to make it happen. It leaves out key data to reduce support.
"2. $1.3 trillion to weatherize every home and office building in the United States"
Yet again not telling them who is going to pay for it. More than likely it will come from taxes. Leaving out this detail is clearly sneaky making it seem the idea is more supported than it is.
"3. $1.5 trillion for a massive federal build-out of renewable energy"
"a large majority of voters said they were ready to foot the bill for the plan."
Nothing in the graph stated anything about them paying for it. It only stated x amount of money will be spent for 10 years for y. It left out who was paying for it. This is clearly yet again sneaking in positions which can't gained by the chart.
"4. A climate adjustment fee on environmentally destructive imports"
This is actually tariffs. There is majority support that sanctions are a bad thing. I am guessing when Trump does it is bad but when Warren does it, it is good.
Here is a link to economists being against Trump's tariffs. Note the same arguments made here can be used for the same plan Warren wants.
"5. “Economic Nationalism for Climate Change”"
"Among white voters without a college degree, the idea was above water at 46 percent and an eight-point support gap."
If you look at the graph. It is broken down by people with less then college degrees compared to people above that. This is making about things that are not in the graph itself. This is false and at worst fake news.
Underneath those 5 ideas they rag about Bernie's less than popular plans which state the special word missing out in every single graph above it taxes. When people know they have to pay for something the support will drop. That was the problem with almost all the graphs above. The cost.
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@HistoryBuff
You do realize that his "far left" policies are very popular right?
Do provide proof. I doubt you can. You are just biased.
That is one of his biggest selling points. While other candidates will lie to you and tell you they believe X and then doing Y when elected. Bernie tells you what he thinks and then fights for it. Having a politician that can be trusted to do the things they say is critically important. For many people, having an authentic candidate is even more important than their specific policy ideas.
Authentic = not reinventing yourself?
This is a reason why he isn't beating Biden and Warren steadily increased over time.
The democratic party is corrupt. They started moving to the right around the Clinton presidency.
If you think Hillary is right you are definitely a far lefty. If it wasn't clear already given your cliche Bernie bro responses. I can't wait for the Bernie math you are going to use to say Bernie's policies are actually popular.
Alot of them are almost indistinguishable from republicans at this point.
You don't know what you are talking about. The Democrats want a public option. The Republicans do not. This alone shows they are different. Please provide claims instead of stating generalities. You are just as bad as "classical liberals" who went right because the party was too far left. Both have bad arguments given the way you phrase things.
Their Neo-Liberal agenda has failed.
Example?
The only reason they are still able to win elections is the choice is bad (dems) or worse (republicans).
Clear persuasive rhetoric than actually leaving it out. Another way to interpret this is that the Democrats are better than the Republicans. There are only two options. For you to say the best option is the bad option is clearly showing your biases.
Bernie is trying to return the dems to their roots of being a party of the people and not a party for huge corporations.
Roots? What time? Please do tell.
You're right that he needs a team. And he gets that team, ironically, in the same way Trump did.
So he would stoop down to Trump's level and still not have a chance at the election? I called that a failure.
He has to make those sellouts so afraid of their own base that they will actually do what their constituents want instead of what their billionaire donors want.
They must all be really scared at his non-existent lead.
Many of them will refuse and need to be primaried by non-corrupt candidates. But the democratic party needs to be reformed and Bernie is the guy to get it done.
Bernie is failing and I think he will fail. If lets say Bernie drops out would you vote for Warren or Biden or would you abstain from voting?
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@secularmerlin
You said you go by convenience and I am asking why.
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@secularmerlin
For convenience. I believe I already said that.
I could go deeper into this but bsh1 is already not happy about what is going on.
That is short hand for does not equal.
Don't really know how does not equal takes longer to type than =/= but guess I am not accustomed to it or something.
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@bsh1
Knew it.I wish it to be regarded as axiomatically the case that morality is objective
What are your thoughts on the OP?
Well f*ck. Putting aside my position on morality and taking the position that there is objective morality:
I much rather focus on virtuous actions then praiseworthiness and blameworthiness. Mainly due to if we all be altruistic then we could be good.
This is also contingent on people being the same like pretty much the same ideas and stuff like that. A hive mind essentially. Without this I think it would be difficult to have equal altruistic actions from one another while also on top of them hopefully being in the same environment.
To summarize:
Virtue and hive mind while also equal environment to have objective morality secured. I am guessing this is what heaven would be a like. A boring ass f*cking place if you ask me.
Hope I answered what wasn't perfect and how it could be perfect. I think the world would be boring but if I feel happy then that me part of the perfect world would be okay. I sure wouldn't want to be transported to the world if I suffer some negative consequences like memory gone, individuality gone. Bliss is okay if the move to it is perfect.
Yes perfection can coexist with morality. I think the answer is really simple. If morality is objective that would be perfection in it of itself.
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@Imabench
Why are you surprised?
I thought him pandering to far lefties would be worse for him because either he might not be far enough or moderates would be turned off by him or both.
Warren is basically a more tame Bernie which I think is a good thing. I think Bernie had rent control as one of his housing bills or something so if Warren doesn't do it just for that one policy she is better.
Bernie didn't even try to change himself instead allowed people like Warren and Harris to use his ideas and put their spin on it whereas Bernie stayed the same.
I don't personally like him because his rent control idea and his shite actions to the democratic party. Ragging on them and using them for his means without noticing he needs a team to enter the white house given the electoral college etc. Linkie (Wish I can find the link I liked more but this will do kind of).
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@secularmerlin
Why do you accept one over another?In most cases I do not justify any standard over any other but I do accept many commonly held standards as a convenience since it allows me to impart information on others who presumably also accept said standards.
Bsh1 may do as Bsh1likes but axiom =/= objectivity.
What do you mean with "=/="?
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@Greyparrot
Or he makes dumb people think he is dumb so he can get an easy re-election.
Occam's Razor states otherwise. We judge people by their actions. Trump has done multiple actions which is considered dumb or not intelligent. Not my problem you like to make some bs up. Come back to me when you have an actual point instead of special pleading.
After all, if the crazy left took Trump seriously, they would never field such garbage opponents like Biden and Warren.
Neither of them are garbage compared to Trump. Your delusion is clouding you from it. You thinking ACA or multi-player healthcare is bad even though other developed countries who have used it have shown to have higher life expectancy and higher quality of care. Please bring up a point instead of calling people garbage without demonstrating it.
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@secularmerlin
With every standard being subjective (if not do demonstrate which one isn't) how can you justify what specific standard over another?
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@secularmerlin
I think bsh1 is using morality being objective as an axiom not saying we can't specifically talk about morality being subjective. Do you agree?
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@secularmerlin
So yes?I think that most if not all standards are subjective and also that without them we could not evaluate things objectively. We decided how hot 0°C is subjectively in order that we could make coherent objective statements about temperature when measured in Celsius.
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@secularmerlin
Don't you think any standard is subjective?
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@Greyparrot
All things being equal, people who have money are generally better educated and more informed than people with much less money.Banks are still willing to risk 30-year mortgages, and Millionaires are still purchasing beachfront property.The End.
This only works if people with money always are more clever than people without money. Trump is a perfect example. He is rich but dumb. Just this alone shows "The End" is not an absolute.
The second line is about no risk schemes made by the bank that they barely have to do anything to climate change not being a problem? Simply giving people money and getting more back is not a sign of the climate isn't changing. Have you thought this through or are you making non-sequitur comments without knowing it?
Millionaires can be dumb like Trump so dumb people are buying property would have to spend a lot on maintaining it if near oceans or extreme weathers. Still not a sign of the climate not changing.
In the first line you say all things are equal then you talk about an inequality which is money. Care to tell me what is going on with the first statement?
To summarize like almost always you don't know what you are talking about because if I accept generalities like most people are Christian then the Biblical God exists but empiricially that has yet to be the case. Please come back with a better argument than generalities, lack of evidence and contradictions.
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@Vader
Bad if you want it to be about the best as in who fits in a specific category the most instead of a popularity contest.
welp
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Sounds like that would get complicated really quick given the number of categories.
Have fewer categories. There isn't that many people on this site. Why have so much?
This is based on I much rather of good low quantity categories rather than bad high quantities.
This is due to the amount of people on the site and the good being judge voting which I hope is done by people who know what they are talking about.
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@Vader
cool
Have judges that are not allowed to be awarded stuff they are voting on.
This can be orogami will be voting on the best forum poster but is not allowed to vote on the best debater. This can take longer but I think it would be better.
Do what you want. This is just my suggestion.
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RM
I'll grant you that it required effort and IQ. Who didn't understand that I didn't have it but still made expecting me to understand rap and put the effort into liking it?
I don't accept what you said. If I put effort into it. I didn't actually like it. I just liked it because you said so. I understand rap like how I understand what makes a good PC. Doesn't mean I will like doing it.
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@bmdrocks21
If you actually read the question I gave you would understand what I was referring too. Did you read that before typing this?What is "this far out" have to do with trusting Trump? That makes no sense.
My comment makes sense regarding polls since most people haven't tuned in yet.
You have yet to demonstrate polling numbers to be false so this "most people haven't tuned in yet." doesn't matter until you actually have a case for polling numbers being incorrect.
We don't know if people will refuse to vote Democrat if their candidate doesn't make it.
What is this the ultimate skeptic approach? Instead of actually arguing against my point you go to well we can't know really. I would've thought I would be more inclined to we can't really know anything for sure then a Christian but oh well.
A candidate could take a bad stance and screw up.
Even if we compare Hillary to Trump. Trump had more blunders and worse scandals but he won. Your point here is invalid and still invalid when we see the blunders of Biden and gotcha by people like Kamala Harris in the first democratic debate didn't drop his position as the person on top.
A million different things could happen, and the polls aren't as relevant over a year from the election.
Please apply this to something else. When I drop a coin it will fall to the ground below. If we take your position we would be unsure of the result and throwing the very idea of cause and effect out of the window. Your point here goes against a very fundamental thing. It is really weird how anti-intellectual you become when you can't actually provide valid criticism instead resort to weird claims against cause and effect and an ultimate skeptic approach which I find lacking when defending people you hold dear. It is almost as if you have two different standards to how you critique the sides. Democrats : Find anything to resorting to questioning them. Republicans : Find the best interpretation of what they have done.
Do you have any comment to my comments?
Yes. Too bad you didn't actually understand what my question was about and didn't even mention it instead, simply copy it for your own means. My question helped my arguments. Yours shows you like parroting what I do badly by not incorporating that into your response.
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@bmdrocks21
Where did you get that from?In your poll, the national average of polls showed Hillary winning by 3%.
The swing states are named that for a reason. They can go either way. 3% is laughable number to the number of swing states that I mentioned in my forum post. Please tell me where you got that number from what I think was limited viewing of the polling data I gave.
My point is the polls aren't always to be trusted. Especially this far out.
Trump shouldn't always be trusted. Especially this far out.
The Bible shouldn't always be trusted. Especially having no evidence for the resurrection of Jesus.
Do you have a comment to my replicas of your comments?
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@bmdrocks21
Depends on the polls.
That is like saying it depends on pretty much anything what action you would like to take. Saying it depends is a truism. It would be something more informative of your position if you said most polls are wrong or most polls are right.
Saying Hillary had 90% chance doesn't state the comparison between the numbers of Trump and Hillary. It could be neck and neck but given this polling data thought the swing states were for sure on Hillary's side had it lost. You didn't say anything about the methodology of the poll instead gave it to me.
How about the poll I gave? You didn't give a response to that instead talked about a poll that agreed with you.
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@bmdrocks21
False.Remember everyone, nearly every poll showed Trump losing significantly.
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@Vader
There was a time I watched TV shows. I don't. I play video games and watch YouTube and Twitch.
Sorry.
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@blamonkey
Life has no objective meaning. Doesn't mean I can't make shit up.It is quaint to see someone who purports to be a nihilist defend the possibility of a god.
Incidentally, if this post causes a flamewar, I am going to direct said user to post 14. I don't particularly care for wither candidate, but I can argue effectively for any candidate. Additionally, I am still wary of supporting any candidate since it might incite a flamewar that Bsh1 would have to put out by locking this thread.
Look whoever has the courage to start this. Just say to them two words. "Debate me". If they don't accept then you argue about that until they look even more bad or realize well instead of arguing in the comments we could be making a debate about it. That way you can debate the person who started the flame-war while also wining.
My positions align closer to Biden's platform than Trump's.
Woo.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
NASA Says Earth Is Greener Today Than 20 Years Ago Thanks To China, India
I am guessing it would be greener given stuff like solar panels but those are still pretty shite. Cost are a lot. Difficult to repair if not in rare locations that can repair.
maybe it's not all gloom and doom after all.
The Earth's going to be hotter and I ain't going to like it. I prefer rain but now I should be expecting harsher winds which is bad so both warmth and rain will be bad. One even worse and another a good to a bad.
Carbon Dioxide Fertilization Greening Earth, Study Finds"carbon dioxide fertilization isn’t the only cause of increased plant growth—nitrogen, land cover change and climate change by way of global temperature, precipitation and sunlight changes all contribute to the greening effect. "plants do need carbon dioxide after all
But if trees the I think biggest users of CO2 are chopped down where is all of the CO2 going to go? Not mentioning that if trees are not around to use the CO2 they can't make that into oxygen.
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@RM
My previous name was omar2345 not Omar.
TheRealNihilist/Omar
What was your reasoning behind this?
Rap is not really my kind of thing. I guess pop, rock would be more like what I like. I know this is themed raps but just saying.
Favorite line:
Snakes in the grass, tryna slither fast
I just found it funny.
What is the song about? I don't understand it.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
At some point the increase in temp could be a problem, but I don't know what that number would be or if we'd actually reach it.
Long read but I guess helpful.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
This is climate change.The panel also concluded there's a better than 95 percent probability that human-produced greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide have caused much of the observed increase in Earth's temperatures over the past 50 years."
Do you disagree with the findings?
After that,
Do you have the position we ought to decrease global temperatures?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
This isn't going anywhere. Your argument is could be something else which isn't something worth arguing against and you speak about a link without even linking the link?
I'll come back with something else.
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@blamonkey
Hypothetically speaking:
The US is a direct democracy (all about votes so no electoral college) and the candidates are Trump and Biden. Your vote decides who gets into office. You know this because I am God and I made you feel like that way or simply demonstrated it to you.
Who would you pick?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
So your making the claim increase forest fires are not a link to climate change? Please give me what it is because of then.yes as I pointed out tying the U.K. fires to climate change is conjecture.
weather/seasons etc are not static, new extremes should be expected regardless of what anyone thinks the cause is. The melting of the ice age was pretty extreme, but not man made right?
What? ""However, during the last 20 years, almost 70 percent of the glacier mass changes were caused by climate change due to humans,""
All records are meant to be broken, doesn't mean a thing unless you can show a trend, even then correlation does not imply causation.
Records are meant to be broken? Please explain this.
predictions of what will happen if climate change is real, those science people you keep referring to, what other predictions do they have?
Climate change is real. They are simply reporting what is occurring. Predictions can be given but I didn't give them because things can change like the magic bullet to stop climate change.
who gives a f*** wgaf :)
Okay. I don't understand slang most of the time.
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just because they had a bad year doesn't mean anything, 1 of something is just that, not a trend or evidence.
Worse than any-other. You sure you are reading it correctly? For something to be the worst it would have to be worse than any other recorded year.
any other "predictions"?
What did I predict in the first place? I mainly stated what is like your wiki link which stated there is a scientific consensus on climate change and UK are experiencing the most forest fire this year.
don't get me wrong I remember the hole in the ozone but there's not much we are going to do to fix whatever they think bad will happen, unless we severely limit the human population. As more land is developed and stripped that will most likely have some effect and I would even say a negative one.consider an all vegan human population, the amount of farm land, fertilizers, pesticides and trucks to haul it all over the place, that doesn't sound any better. Not to mention importing even more from other countries with no real standards or regulations. Supplemental watering would be impossible. So a weather pattern which has a negative impact on crops in a given area could be catastrophic.
Conjecture.
what is the solution to the problem? if there isn't one wgaf?
wgaf?
World wide agreement and continual following of series of actions to limit climate change. This can be limiting population. Limiting fossil fuels. Using Nuclear and then moving onto renewable when effective. Things like these but the global agreement and continued agreement is going to be really difficult to pull off.
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