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@Best.Korea
I never said he can.
Well, then that would be child rape.
Animated child porn is a more pragmatic solution that I believe would reduce the rape rate of children.
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@Swagnarok
The vast majority of what may be considered CP is a record of the live abuse of a child. Understandably it would be distressing for survivors to learn, years later, that not only does such a record exist but the public is gleefully reliving their trauma and spanking off to it.
If that's what you believe, then never listen to Nirvana again (they used child porn in an album):
(Nevermind album). I'm not going to post the link, but just look it up.
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@Wylted
Let's start shoving guns up women's vaginas when they are pregnant and just giving baby's guns in the fucking womb. Yee Haw
This is funny. If I were a woman, then I would find it misogynistic.
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@zedvictor4
Nonetheless, always nice to exchange ideas with you.
Mutual.
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@Best.Korea
Sure, but there is no risk. Just have abortion.
The issue with that is it's intentional homicide.
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@Mall
If you don't work, you don't eat as the biblical scripture teaches. If you don't work, you don't live.
What's the alternative? If it's socialism, then food is going to have to be produced by someone who would be your, "slave". If nobody works, then no food gets produced and we starve. It's harsh, but it's reality and it's unchangeable unless AI automates everything.
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@zedvictor4
But loaded guns are never safe.
Nothing is 100% safe, not even the internet.
I'm guessing that the bulk of gun owners in the U.S. have them as either a weapon of self defence or an instrument of empowerment.
Most have it for protection. There are 100 million gun owners in the US. If 10% of them were murderers every year, then there would be 10 million murders in the US a year. In reality, there are about 20,000 homicides; and the average murderer murders 2 people; so 10K murderers a year.
10K/100M = 1/10K.
There is a .01% chance a generic gun owner is a murderer.
And if it's you, you won't care because you will be dead.And barring a few close relatives, no one else will care.Such is U.S. culture.
Sure; Americans are extremely individualistic and proud of that. Everyone is individualistic to an extent; otherwise there would be no kids in foster care because they would all be adopted.
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@FLRW
Mifepristone is an abortion pill (which if you are PAL, then you would obviously want to be legal, but if you are ANAL, then you would want banned).
If a state bans abortion, then they would also have to ban mifepristone if they were consistent.
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@Mall
@Sidewalker
Tagged you guys.
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I am confused as to which side I take on this debate. I want the people here to provide arguments I can't think of myself.
Really with all activities you can do that are dangerous, you can say, “If you don’t want the risk, then don’t do the activity”. But with all of these activities (except for sex), if things go south, then you can legally get treatment in all 50 states since you aren’t harming anyone by getting treatment for the vast majority of activities (you aren’t harming anyone significantly if you put ice on your hand after a burn from matches).
Find some situation that meets all of the following criteria:
1. Feels very good to do on an instinctive level.
2. Has plausible risk to it if things go very south.
3. Treatment would harm some other entity significantly
And one bullet point from the following criteria:
4. Therefore, you should not be allowed to get the treatment due to the significant harm it would cause to others.
5. Despite this, you should be allowed to get the treatment despite the significant harm it would do to others.
It’s easy for me to think of many situations where 1 and 2 are met. It’s much harder for me to complete 1-3 and then get 4 or 5. Your answer for 4 or 5 should be something pretty much everyone agrees with.
I will tag one person who believes abortion should be legal and another who wants it banned. Let me know what you guys come up with.
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@Best.Korea
I guess utopia would mean me alone on an island which has some food and water available. Its about as simple as that
What happens when you run out of food/water? You can't hunt. You don't have the guts to talk to women, let alone chasing down a deer. You can't even purify water on your own without technology that will eventually be useless.
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@Reece101
Are you pro-choice if babies are conceived through rape?
Yes and no, depends on how you define it.
I believe that a person that got pregnant through rape (might be a woman, might be a girl) should get $300K in restitution if they can prove they got pregnant from rape. If they abort, then they lose $20K.
This technically could be argued to be banning abortion for rape victims with a $20K penalty for it, but I don't really think it harms rape victims by not letting them get abortions.
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@Mall
The small minority of gays that rape should get killed. This is not reflective of all gay people, or even the majority.
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@Double_R
Because they figured that students are probably not in the best learning environment walking through a hallway where multiple dead bodies of kids once laid for doing the same thing they are doing right now.
G1 is the original group of Sandy Hook kids at the time of the shooting encompassing all grades present.
G2 is the new Sandy hook kids there one year later. There is much overlap between G1 and G2, but they aren’t identical groups.
The kids at Sandy Hook now are in G13. G13 kids won’t be traumatized by the shooting that G1 endured. If G1-6 wants to go to school somewhere else, that’s understandable. They were in the building during the shootout. Don’t destroy the building though because eventually the kids there will be in G7 or higher.
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@Mall
Non consenting people are forced to sexually subject.
Gay people aren’t inherently forcing straight people to have sex with them or to see them naked.
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@zedvictor4
Another school shooting,But guns still good.
Murder is bad, but vast majority of gun owners are safe and it’s group punishment to disarm/punish people for crimes they didn’t commit. Collective punishment is bad.
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@n8nrgim
instead of capital gains and sales taxes, a property tax would be better. that way, the limited resource of property would be discouraged and labor or work would be encouraged.
Multiple issues with this:
- Property values go up about 1%-3% per year on average. Stocks on average go up 10%. There is a level of risk, but risk balences out as time goes on.
- All the US property is valued at $31 trillion. The US debt is just south of $35 trillion. A 20% property tax for 5 years wouldn’t be enough to pay off the debt. And a $500K home owned by someone with a middle class job would pay $100K for 5 years extra in taxes.
- All taxes on positive things discourage economic growth and taxing exclusively sin taxes is not pragmatic.
- Property ownership shouldn’t be discouraged anymore than owning anything else.
both academic liberals and conservatives often agree on the property tax idea, so i think you should consider it too.
The states with the highest property tax have about a 1% property tax. Making a 20% property tax is unrealistic.
also i dont think a huge influx of immigrants would be good. prices would sky rocket, cause there'd be more peopel expecting the american standard of life.
Population growth doesn’t lead to an increase in good prices because while the demand of goods would increase, the supply of goods increases proportionally.
poverty would sky rocket
The GDP per capita of US immigrants is comparable to Canadian Citizens; and I assume less income inequality would be present. The poverty rate could be reduced by not requiring green cards to work.
cause there would be fewer people needed to work jobs at least to some extent
Population growth doesn’t lead to the unemployment rate skyrocketing because a nation that doubles its population due to immigration will have twice as many workers (demand for jobs) and twice as many customers (supply for jobs). The US population goes up 4 million per year. Is the number of people who are unemployed increasing by 4 million a year on average? No. Why? Because more people means more workers but ALSO more customers, workers increase the unemployment rate, customers decrease the unemployment rate.
a water treatment plant can service fifty thosuand people or it can service five thousand
A population of twice as high is expected to have twice as many water treatment workers and this is true for all industries.
if we took the buffet method, we might be able to use a referendum and get the people to by pass congress
No congress person is going to agree to quit their jobs over something they don’t plan on solving.
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@Mall
Don't we agree that non consensual sexuality is harmful?
Yes. I think rape is harmful. The vast majority of gays don't rape.
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@Mall
To a significant extent. I take it that you already agree that it harms to a lesser extent.
I don't even think homosexuality harms any non consenting person to any detectable extent. But even if it's a small extent, campfires harm others to a slight extent by forcing people to breath in smoke for a campfire they did not consent to. Even if 100 m away from the campfire, campfire smoke still at least nominally negatively impacts others. This doesn't justify banning campfires in an area that has no plausible chance of forest fires.
The extent of harm must be significant.
Well to the non consenting which includes infants, children, young people, middle aged and even beyond over to those in the penitentiary prisons is pretty much a significant extent.
How? You are using emotional words like, "children", "young people" but you aren't explaining how homosexuality always causes significant harm to others.
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@WyIted
Nobody wants to drive by the school their child died every single day.
Then find a different route. I have a highschool; I just don’t drive by it if I don’t want too.
Nobody wants a bunch of true crim tourists and conspiracy theorists coming to their town to gawk at what they see as a tourist destination.
They may not seek it out, but I wouldn’t care.
You need to get out of your ivory tower and have a heart
That’s rich coming from you. But to address your point; I don’t care about feelings when it comes to public policy if I can save money. My money matters more than people’s feelings; it’s a product of being fiscally right wing; cutting government spending on wasteful projects like this.
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@Best.Korea
I mean, he didnt murder anyone, he didnt rape anyone, he didnt assault anyone.
Cocaine addicts might murder though and it’s a much higher risk than everyone else due to their dopamine levels being out of whack.
It’s a bit strange not to pardon his own son, especially if his son gets like 5 years in prison.
The Sons of presidents should not get special treatment. If I was president and my son raped and murdered someone, then I would still want him put to death (and I would disown him).
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@WyIted
The teachers and traumatized students can teach or be taught somewhere else. Just don’t destroy the school.
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@Best.Korea
There was a kid who brought a knife to my elementary school. I never wanted to tear down the school based on it.
There was a school where a teacher raped a student. Nobody thought of turning down the school because of the child rape.
Like, it’s a waste of taxpayer money and I’m fiscally right wing which means I want to cut government spending. That means I have to ignore people’s feelings because they are irrelevant.
The only thing that is relavent for policy is logic and moraltiy; logos and ethos. Patheos has no place.
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@Best.Korea
His charge was he tried to get a gun while being a cocaine addict.
Should cocaine addicts be allowed to own guns? I have to think about this.
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@Best.Korea
If that was the case, then after the rape and murder that happened in Central Park, people wouldn’t go to the park anymore.
Being in a building where a shooting took place doesn’t mean you will get shot. I don’t want to spend taxpayer money on the results of people’s feelings. I’ve driven on the same roads as at least one murderer. It doesn’t mean I’m going to get murdered.
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@FLRW
I can't wait for the Revolution. I'm glad there is no more ban on gun bump stocks.
Don’t murder people for being gay.
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Let’s say there is a school shooting. Why do people tear down the whole school because of the shooting? Like, there was a brutal rape and murder in Central Park. Nobody decided to tear down all of Central Park.
Like the Sandy Hook shooting; everyone involved with that shooting is at least in highschool now. There is not a single elementary school aged person in Sandy Hook that will be traumatized by being in the same building.
Tearing down buildings and re building them is such a waste of money!
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@3RU7AL
the suggestion was universal healthcare for pregnancy only
If we give UHC for pregnancy, then we have to give UHC unconditionally.
but right now i'm paying just as much for insurance as i am paying for rent
This would be roughly the same with UHC as the profit margin from insurance companies is between 3-10%; the alternative is a bunch of buerocratic waste (usually more than 10%).
so, it seems reasonable to me that if we implemented universal healthcare, my TOTAL EXPENDITURE would be at least flat if not DECREASE
Usually, the reason people say this is they use the following premise/conclusion argument:
P1: Europe has better health outcomes (defined as the sum of cheaper health costs and higher life expectancy) than the US.
P2: Europe does UHC and America doesn’t.
C1: Therefore, UHC produces better health outcomes.
There are omitted variables as to why P1 is correct. Europe is built for people; America is built for cars. Europeans get way more walking done (aka exercise) than Americans do simply because they have to. I would assume the reason Europe has better health outcomes than America is simply because Europeans have to get way more exercise than Americans do on average; their cities are significantly more walkable.
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@3RU7AL
That’s why I would want to dramatically expand the number of planned parenthood clinics despite being anti abortion so women get the abortions done safely. They can then be registered for community service as a penalty (along with the dude that got them pregnant). Women would rather do the community service than get an abortion that is not safe for the mother.
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@Mall
Homosexuality does harm the population as abortion.
How does homosexuality harm other non consenting people to a significant extent?
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@3RU7AL
you can't have a different standardfor zygotes
You do have to factor in bodily autonomy and the fact that the person doing the bad action is in pain, which is why the punishment should be less. I think the punishment for a homeless person stealing shouldn’t be as bad as Bill Gates stealing. The former is desperate; the ladder isn’t. The former you can have do community service and that pays off their debt; the ladder is a sadist and should return the money in addition to also getting whipped. If Bill Gates steals and he goes to trial over it, then he should feel pain; this shouldn’t apply to the person who steals out of desperation. The poor person that steals should do community service and once done with that (since they stole due to being broke), they should get a government job so they aren’t poor anymore. You can rehabilitate a poor person that steals; but not a rich person that steals since the poor person is more desperate.
US women are being jailed for having miscarriages
That happened and it shouldn’t have happened. If it was a genuine accident, then there shouldn’t be a penalty as most women have had zygotes die in them accidentally.
does the catastrophic harm to the zygote outweigh the "harm" caused by a LESS THAN 1% increase in taxation ?
It would if the increase in taxation was 1% due to UHC. The reality is UHC would cost more than a 1% increase in taxation. My estimation is about 50% increase. But having the taxpayer take care of the kid if the woman can’t afford it would be akin to the taxpayer funding the tobacco costs of someone who chose to smoke.
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@3RU7AL
who are you arguing with here ?nobody thinks bodily autonomy means you can rob force or coerce another citizen
Whether or not they are a Citizen is irrelevant. Just like I shouldn't be allowed to legally rape an undocumented immigrant. Non-citizens should have the right to victimless life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. You don't get to steal from others because of your bodily autonomy (whether it's stealing $8 for a pack of tobacco or stealing someone's life for an abortion).
do you think abortion should only be a crime in the united statesor do you think it should be a crime everywhere ?
I would say everywhere.
368,451 births happen each day (How many births are per day worldwide - Search (bing.com)). Assuming 800 of them end in death, that is a maternal death rate of about 0.217%. This is pretty much all solved with a culture of vasectomies; ie men not having sex until they get a vasectomy and get it doctor approved.
After simple adjustments for varying methods, existing data show that at least 73% of natural single conceptions have no real chance of surviving 6 weeks of gestation.
Well those are accidents; and accidents should not be tried as the same action intentionally. This is why manslaughter is tried differently than murder. I think fetal unintentional homicide should be legal, but fetal intentional homicide should be punished with community service.
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@Mall
Or I just have the LUSHOOTY ethos (Liberty Unless Significantly Harming Others Or Too Young). Abortion actually harms someone else to a significant extent (a homicidal extent). Homosexuality doesn't.
I'm LUSHOOTY; not a theocrat.
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@3RU7AL
robbing someone has nothing to do with smoking
Robbing someone because of your tobacco addiction is needed to satisfy your bodily autonomy to smoke if you can’t afford tobacco. This doesn’t mean theft for tobacco should be legalized.
Every day in 2020, almost 800 women died from preventable causes related to pregnancy and childbirth.
This is a global statistic, not a U.S. statistic. In the US, I read somewhere that out of 4 million births, 800 of them result in death a year. This is .02% chance of death on average.
a blob of cells is not a human
“Life starts with a zygote, which is formed by the fusion of a haploid sperm and egg.”
“The human life cycle, from zygote to adult organism”. If it was believed that a human life starts at any other point (10 weeks into pregnancy as an example), the quote would say, “The human life cycle, from 10 weeks into pregnancy to adult organism”
So a zygote is a human being.
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@3RU7AL
and each individual humanhas natural sovereigntyover everything that happens inside their own bodyself-sovereign
This is only true if they aren’t harming others to a significant extent. Like, bodily autonomy says you can smoke tobacco, but you can’t rob someone else because of your bodily autonomy desire to smoke tobacco.
so, ostensibly you believe abortion should be legal for women without healthcare
I would say abortion should not be legal unless there is a 1% chance or higher the woman dies without an abortion. I believe it’s plausible an uninsured pregnant woman has a less than 1% chance of dying without an abortion.
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@Wylted
I’m trying to tag you, but it’s not working.
Your still a man if you get a vasectomy, but a lesser one
Why? You can raw dog and not worry about pregnancy. What’s more masculine than raw dogging?
Being a woman is a much higher honor than being a man.
You sound like a femenist when you say this. Femenists believe in gender supremacy.
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@3RU7AL
The "castle doctrine" is a legal principle that allows individuals use force, including deadly force, to defend against an intruder in their home without the duty to retreat.
The difference between a conventional intruder and an unborn kid is the intruder chose to be in the home. The unborn kid never chose to be in the woman’s uterus.
it illustrates the SCOPE OF THE LAWeverything is based on geographic JURISDICTIONand DISPUTE RESOLUTION BETWEEN CITIZENSsome countries grant unregistered non-citizens a certain legal statusbut this is purely at their own discretion and can be changed at any time and for any reason
So change the law. Or at least advocate for changing the law.
does this view reflect some coherent moral or legal theory perhaps ?
My moral theory is in my profile description. It’s LUSHOOTY (Liberty Unless Significantly Harming Others Or Too Young). Because there should be no minimum age to enter this country and the undocumented aren’t significantly harming others, liberty should be granted here (ie liberty to not get deportation). Since abortion DOES significantly harm someone else (unborn human), then liberty should NOT be granted here.
so i guess you're also in favor of universal health-care for pregnant women ?
No because it violates the LUSHOOTY ethos because you are significantly harming the taxpayer to get universal healthcare.
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@Mall
Just like your views and positions in the dark today may see the light tomorrow against abortion/same sex marriage and transgenderism.
I’m anti abortion, but I’m pro LGBT, even to the extent where I’m willing to date a transwoman (I prefer post op; I don’t know how I would fuck someone with a dick). I do believe in waiting until marriage though despite being atheist. High body counts are bad for mental health.
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@3RU7AL
Well, that's a stupid rule. Qualified immunity should be repealed and ICE should be abolished.
It's the LAW
Who cares? Change the stupid laws!
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@3RU7AL
the function of the law is dispute resolution between CITIZENSin your example, the person who believes they were HARMED will petition the state to resolve their dispute between CITIZENS
So if I murder an undocumented immigrant, then should it be legal? No; the penalty would be death for murder while not being a bodily threat. The penalty for abortion should be community service (which factors in bodily autonomy; otherwise the penalty would be death). I'm not pro life; I'm anti-abortion. It's a less appealing label, but it's more honest, and it's only honesty that is relevant.
I'm also anti ICE, so the idea of it being legal to murder/deport undocumented immigrants is an idea I find repulsive.
what happens inside your own body
Do you think tobacco should be legal to consume? You would say:
Yes, because it's their body
What if the tobacco addict wants to rob you to satisfy their tobacco addiction? Should they be allowed to do that? You would say:
No; that's crazy!
But "their body, their choice". Oh wait? A tobacco addict robbing someone to satisfy their right to bodily autonomy harms someone else to a significant extent? And bodily autonomy to smoke tobacco isn't a good enough reason if it means you have to rob other people to satisfy your tobacco addiction? Alright; now a precedent is established.
If bodily autonomy is not a good enough reason to rob someone of $8 for tobacco, then bodily autonomy is not a good enough reason to rob someone of their life (I'm assuming objectively speaking, the right to life is worth more than the right to $8).
If a woman doesn't want pregnancy, then she should make sure her bf has a vasectomy before they have sex (like I have no problem getting a vasectomy before I have sex if that's what's needed to prevent abortion). But abortion should be banned unless there is a 1% chance or higher the mother dies without one.
is beyond the scope of state authority
State authority should prevent homicide from directly happening. I think that's obvious. If something has a 100% chance of producing homicide, then it should be illegal to do that (this does not apply to gun laws because there are 20 million AR 15 owners and around 200 or so deaths from mass shootings; the odds of one AR 15 owning person murdering someone from a mass shooting (the expected value) is about 1/100000 (.001%) whereas the expected homicide rate from one woman getting an abortion is 100%). If 100% of AR 15 owners committed murder, then I would want to ban AR 15s. But those aren't the odds; .001% is different than 100%.
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@ludofl3x
So to be clear, to you, abortion = rape in terms of moral code?
If I didn’t consider bodily autonomy, then I would think abortion is worse than rape because I think murder is worse than rape. Like, I would rather get raped than murdered.
But bodily autonomy has to be considered (that; and abortion is common), so I think parents of aborted babies should do community service as punishment.
I don’t believe in the death penalty or imprisonment for abortion, but most people that want to ban abortion want to treat it as murder (so life imprisonment or the death penalty for abortion). I respect the honesty, but it makes me look moderate by comparison.
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@n8nrgim
your plan is convoluted and too complicated. you should be able to explain it in simple terms
- Repeal the income tax, and social security tax and replace it with a sales tax and a capital gains tax.
- This raises more revenue for the federal government while taxing each person less because we increase the number of taxpayers as much as we can by letting anybody and everybody settle in the United States in blue counties whether or not they have government permits. This builds up our population by about 360%, GDP by about 360%, it causes our stock prices to go from increasing 10% per year to a 1 year increase of 400%, and that increase with the capital gains tax pays off the US debt and expands liberty in this country.
it's another thing to get a country with hundreds of milions of people to agree on it.
I’m sure the majority of the people that understand the bill will support it. But do you support it?
but the status quo tends to get lobbyists to torpedo any descioin making process that would likely derail their benefits that they derive from our system
P1: Lobbyists work for companies
P2: Conpanies want the value of their stock to increase.
P3: This bill due to the immigrants coming in here would cause a stock market increase of about 400%.
C1: The lobbyists would support my bill ad would the 50% of Americans that own stock. The other 50% are uneffected because population growth doesn’t lead to the unemployment rate going up.
maybe warren buffet's approach to the budget was best. he said, pass a law that says any time our deficiit exceeds inflation, the current members of congress are ineligible for reelection. then, we'd be guaranteed a managemanble debt and deficit
His idea is wishful thinking; Congress isn’t going to put their own jobs on the line for that.
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@WyIted
Correct and inflating your money accomplishes the same thing as Taxing you, but is easier to sell to the public.
I don’t want the dollar to become significantly less valuable as time goes on.
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@ludofl3x
I'm pretty sure it's not the lack of a vasectomy that's keeping you from having sex.
I’m fine with not having sex even after my vasectomy. Fiscal conservatives should not have kids because having kids costs a lot of money and the fiscal conservative doesn’t like to spend money. If I don’t have sex, then so be it. I don’t believe I’m entitled to sex. If I don’t get it, that’s fine.
Your topics lately have been concerning, it's like there's less coherent thought behind them even once they're decoded
OP got 4 likes; it makes sense to a lot of people.
The response to the privacy question, where you say it's the same thing as raping a girlfriend in a private area...I mean come on. Pregnancy is a medical condition. Raping your girlfriend is a crime.
Abortion is not victimless; it causes the homicide of someone else and harms them significantly. Same thing with rape. When you harm others, you lose your right to privacy.
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@Mall
A mother don't need to be told. That's what the love of a mother is.
Not all women love their kids. It’s why abortion is a thing. But I know I wouldn’t love my kids, so I don’t want to make them.
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@WyIted
Go on, make yourself less of a man and keep your races numbers in decline so capitalists are forced to import Muslims to replace us
If I actually transitioned to a trans woman, then you would be still claiming that I’m a man.
So by your logic: Trans woman -> Man. Cisgender man that doesn’t want kids and is getting a vasectomy to prevent maternal pain -> Not a man. You are acting on emotion so much. I’m just doing what makes sense.
You claim to be a libertarian. Meaning if Muslims move here and it grows GDP and population without having to reproduce and pay for the costs of education, then that is called free market capitalism.
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@n8nrgim
our defense is bigger than the next ten countries combined
Cutting the war budget would be giving the democrats what they want (this is fine, but be honest about it). Everything you suggested in your comment is what the democrats want to do. There is nothing wrong with that, but don't frame your comment as, "Enlighted centrist" when it's left wing.
But my plan to pay off the debt in 1 year is outlined in the following spreadsheet:
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@WyIted
Brush, just print more money. It's the same as taxes but more sneaky
That's inflation.
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