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@Best.Korea
What's your moral system?
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@zedvictor4
Does RM fit into this category?
I don't think he does.
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@MisterChris
RM wants this thread to change locations. I'm fine with that.
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@RationalMadman
This should be in the DART main section or in the miscellaneous btw, ask a mod to move it.
Sure.
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I put my moral code on my profile and I encourage others to do the same.
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But I will probably create some suggestions that I think can make people smarter and produce better arguments.
1. Don't cite biased wing cites and treat it like they are objective. If a left winger cites CNN or Huff Post, then the right winger dismisses it as leftist propaganda. If they cite FOX or OAN, then it gets viewed as RINO because people tend to see parties as single issue parties, when in reality, it's multi issues. If a republican says transwomen are women; the left praises them for abandoning their party on that issue and the right thinks they are RINOs. If a democrat says abortion is murder, then the equal and opposite occurs. This hypothetical pro trans republican and pro life democrat are ideologically identical on these 2 issues (they are both pro lifers that think transwomen are women), but the parties would cancel someone they view as a, "traitor to their team".
2. Understand how your opponent thinks. I'm not talking about their opinion on a belief; I'm talking about their morality. If you are a democrat, then your value is Anti-Unwanted Pain (AUP) and you are pragmatic with how to get there. If you are a republican, then your value is often a lot less principled, but it's very ideologue. An example of an ideologue AUP person is a socialist. In order for a right winger to convince a left winger of their belief, then you have to prove your belief is AUP. Otherwise, it is impossible to change the AUP person's mind, so there is no point (unless you want to debate which value is superior, AUP vs an example alternative moral code like LUSHO (Liberty Unless Significantly Harming Others, which is my moral code) or CPL (Consistent Pro Lifer), or TASQD (Tradition And Status Quo Defender), or some other moral code that) in debating moral codes. You got your moral code; I got mine. As long as we are consistent with both of our moral codes, then me trying to convert you to my moral code would be like a devout Muslim trying to convert a devout Christian to Islam. But unlike religion, where everyone can live by their religious views while barely forcing that on others; a Jewish POTUS doesn't have to force me to live by their Jewish beliefs, but a AUP POTUS would have to force me to live by their moral code. Otherwise, what's the point of there being a POTUS? Maybe there can be like 10 Co Presidents and if AUP gets 40% of the vote, LUSHO gets 30%, CPL gets 20% and TASQD gets 10%, then 4 of the Presidents would be AUP, 3 would be LUSHO people, etc. There is no point in doing debates if everyone's moral views are formed and it is impossible to change those views, although these views are less hereditary than religion.
3. Pretty much try and follow the rules more or less in these videos:
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@WyIted
I can probably give good points to people to improve their debating quality.
Here's a tip:
Don't cite right wing cites and treat it like they are objective.
If RM cited Huffington post for one of his arguments, you would dismiss it as a left wing bias; if they cite FOX News, you would call FOX News RINO trash. You can expect the equal and opposite reaction from RM or Roosevelt if you cite left or right wing sources as if they are factual an unbiased.
But I will probably create some suggestions that I think can make people smarter and produce better arguments.
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@WyIted
Finally a fucking person who actually knows how to debunk a point and make great observations.
I'm glad I changed your mind. It's why I'm on here. Plus, I want to run for POTUS and this is practice.
Please teach RM and and Roosevelt how to be smart like you and actually defeat an opponents arguments.
That would be good, to create a course called, "How to be a smarter debater".
What should the units be? I'm a college student; so I'm used to learning things in semesters.
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@WyIted
No, my concern would be more about what th effects of the tax policy would be not in who they harm
What negative effects would exist from taxing the globalists more?
We had that tax code in the Eisenhower years. We got the interstate.
To me it's about what is most beneficial for society and I think they could male a better impact with the money than politicians
That's a good point. Politicians use the money for war; rich people use it for better things than genocide.
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@WyIted
Maybe I start a new thread tonight about this so you have an opportunity to do so in a more relaxed format
If you want to do that, that's fine.
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@WyIted
It seems like blue cities such as Detroit were doing well under republicans but when it went blue it became a very poor and high crime area. It seems like democrat cities always go into the shitter this way and that perhaps their policies are the cause of this.
Poverty creates crime. There are poor and high crime areas that are run by both democrats and republicans (and their margin of victories tend to be big and change very little). Cities with close elections where the party label of the politician has little to do with whether or not they win and whether or not they win has much more to do with their performance has more scared politicians; politicians that have to earn the vote, and this makes better cities with a lower crime rate.
Harry Rilling is a democrat politician from Norwalk; Norwalk is a safe city. It's also a rich city.
Blue cities can be safe or dangerous and the same is true for red cities.
But blue cities tend to be bigger, and therefore more famous (unless it's a battleground city that's red leaning). There are poor small town hardcore republican areas with a lot of crime that don't get the headlines because they aren't famous areas.
But battleground areas tend to be the safest and richest.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Because the poor can only want to steal from the rich?
The democrats want to steal the globalists to fund the healthcare of the people they deem to be American Patriots (defined as anyone living in the US and therefore has America as their favorite country to live in; otherwise they would live somewhere else, and this includes the undocumented).
I'm trying to be objective when I say this, but disagreeing with this is taking the pro globalist position.
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But if this is true, then it would make sense for the GOP to advocate for raising taxes on those blue democrat voters and fund the healthcare of the red voters.
But they won't do that because they call it socialist.
But if Trump endorsed socialism and called corporation and capitalism, "woke", and railed on that for a good month, then his idiot supporters (the majority of whom are idiots that aren't consistent with any of their claimed values and if they block me, then they don't believe in free speech like they claim to do), would become socialists in the name of fighting, "wokeness" (which they have defined as being pro cancel culture even though they block people they don't agree with, therefore vigilantically cancelling them; making them the woke ones).
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@Wylted (or whoever)
If you really believe that rich people tend to vote blue, then would you want to raise taxes on disproportionally blue voters to subsidize red voters?
If not, then you support rich blue voter's right to keep what they earned.
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@WyIted
I have read 500 page books on this. Don't insult me with a one minute video lol.
Then why did you say:
I would be willing to debate con on ranked choice as a means to increase my understanding of the popular criticisms of it.
I believe nobody on this site except you read 500 pages on RCV.
I think the issue comes when there are 16 candidates or some similar thing.
Then people should do their research on all 16 and make a decision for who they would support.
But I think it should be you need at least .5% national approval to run (both major parties have 1%; so half of that) and then it's just a RCV session.
I guess since you don't want to debate this I will look through my obsidian folder and see what my previous notes were.
I only am cool with me doing forum debates. I don't think I have the time commitment to do formal ones.
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@WyIted
My understanding is that the way it works, you can get a lot of instances of issues where somebody with low support would win even though they are hated by a majority of people. I am flaky here.
With Rank choice voting, this is false. This is true under First Past the Post Voting.
I would be willing to debate con on ranked choice as a means to increase my understanding of the popular criticisms of it.
Watch this video:
Many conservatives are against it because it seems to favor democrats.
How? If it's Biden-DeSantis-Trump, I think DeSantis would win that election with RCV, but with FPTP, it would be Biden since DeSantis would take a lot of votes from Trump.
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@WyIted
If there are different types of republicans, then why don't they split up into different parties and rank choice voting helps the American people have what they want?
And there can be overlap. Like Rand Paul says he's pro life; which is in line with Mike Pence.
Paleo cons are very similar to libertarians in that they don't like the wars.
But rank choice voting allows each faction to be more ideologically consistent and you may even have blue voters who normally vote blue, but would vote for a Rand Paul guy, but would vote blue over Tucker Carlson or George Bush.
If there is no consistent definition for republican, then different parties should form from the GOP and rank choice voting gives people more options for who they want to support.
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@Mharman
Someone who, in theory, holds values that compliment our country’s founding as well as Judeo-Christian culture
So does that mean Theocracy? Or does it mean Latin American Christain culture is included in that?
There is no such thing as Judeo-Christain Culture. It's like saying there is such a thing as Islamo-Zoroastrian culture. Or a Bhuddo-Hindu culture.
No 2 religions have the same culture all to themselves.
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I do not believe the GOP has a consistent definition for what they stand for.
Me: What is a republican?
Republican: We believe in small government.
Me: You guys want to keep ICE, repeal Roe V Wade, and support the government funded police. Try again.
Republican: We believe in law and order. Follow the law no matter what.
Me: If the law said guns are banned and COVID boosters are mandated, I wouldn’t expect you to agree with that law.
Republican: Well, we believe in tradition/status quo!
Me: Roe V Wade was an American tradition and the status quo for 50 years. It got repealed because of you guys.
Republican: We believe in Biblical Law!
Me: The bible says in Matthew 25:35 to welcome illegal immigrants in your home. I know you don’t agree with that.
Republican: Well, what does the left consistently stand for?
Me: The left is consistently against unwanted pain. They are Anti Unwanted Pain (AUP). Either come up with an alternative ideology that is palatable, become independents (which means you are open to voting for a democrat that Trump doesn't like) or join the left.
Republican: We believe in small government.
Me: You guys want to keep ICE, repeal Roe V Wade, and support the government funded police. Try again.
Republican: We believe in law and order. Follow the law no matter what.
Me: If the law said guns are banned and COVID boosters are mandated, I wouldn’t expect you to agree with that law.
Republican: Well, we believe in tradition/status quo!
Me: Roe V Wade was an American tradition and the status quo for 50 years. It got repealed because of you guys.
Republican: We believe in Biblical Law!
Me: The bible says in Matthew 25:35 to welcome illegal immigrants in your home. I know you don’t agree with that.
Republican: Well, what does the left consistently stand for?
Me: The left is consistently against unwanted pain. They are Anti Unwanted Pain (AUP). Either come up with an alternative ideology that is palatable, become independents (which means you are open to voting for a democrat that Trump doesn't like) or join the left.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
If only i knew where the underdog lives.
I'm not telling you where I live.
I doubt it would be over the top expensive just to get a plane to write,JEHOVAH WITNESSES ARE CORRECT.
No; I'm talking about something like Clouds spelling out the words, "(This religion) is the correct religion" a bunch of times all over the world in whatever language is needed (or it could all be English and translation will do what it does).
That would be evidence for God's existence. Nothing else will count because it could be coincidence, and coincidences happen a lot.
Yeah , so its like Waterworld.Also known as .A wide flood world .
I do not believe the world experienced a worldwide flood. I think the bible is a myth and is a bunch of false stories.
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@Best.Korea
Person cannot be happy if everyone around him is constantly insulting him from early childhood.
My rights don't end where your emotions begin and vice versa.
Otherwise, if I say, "Abortion is murder" and some woman that had an abortion is offended, then I could be put in jail for, "hate speech". If I say, "Abortion should be treated as murder and women who get abortions should spend the rest of their life in prison" (the logical conclusion of treating abortion like murder), the same thing applies.
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@Best.Korea
How long have you been mastrabating?I started masturbating when I was like 6 or 7.
Alright; so if it's not addicting, then I will be more willing to do it.
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@sadolite
Maybe if the adults can't talk, but no adult that can talk is dumber than that 5 year old is if the video wasn't a grift.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
He’s a lonely, lonely guy, no wife, no kids, never kissed a girl.
I don't see the issue with being unmarried, unkissed, and childless. If that's what he is into, it is what it is.
Here he admits his wack job beliefs could get him in trouble with normal society
That's honestly true about pretty much everyone on DART.
If I said at work what I said on DART for long enough, then I would get fired. The same is true for GP; the same is true for you.
You think people at work are going to like you insulting people you don't like for not having kids and being unmarried?
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What you got wrong is that you are asking the kinds of questions Roose asks in order to doxx people, find out where they really work so he can get them fired. Why do you think I ignore him? My job isn't worth any kind of internet victory with an anonymous person.
I don't know your real name and neither does Roose.
I wasn't asking where you worked, I was asking if you have a job where you sustain yourself free from government aid.
Especially a crazy and unstable larper like roose.
This is a fair assessment of Roose. He plays a stereotypical Boston, Massachusetts person.
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@Best.Korea
Its one choice which destroys years of many other choices.
Yeah; but it's the choice to make. You should be at least 25 in order for me to be fine with you committing suicide, because that is the least reversible choice out there.
But then that would mean you believe you should be banned from having sex with minors.Yes, it should be banned.
Alright; we're getting somewhere.
I started at 21.Well, I started masturbating much earlier.
How long have you been mastrabating?
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On 2nd thought; I think I'll stick to free speech absolutism; counterarguments made a good point.
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The first amendment states the government can't prosecute you for your speech.
If we were logically consistent, then an ISIS supporter would be able to fly an ISIS flag on public property and the government wouldn't be able to do anything about it.
All the free speech advocates didn't say anything when Big Tech censors pro ISIS accounts. They will defend the free speech of Nick Fuentes, but not ISIS.
I think there needs to be a consistent standard. Either Fuentes AND ISIS should get free speech on social media platforms and the same amount of vigor should be used to defending the free speech of those with horrible views or neither should.
But Fuentes is a right wing figure, so the right will cheer on his right to free speech. ISIS on the other hand; they are left wing, so it's not as much of a free speech concern.
I think the standard of, "if you genuinely wish (not tolerate in the pursuit of something else, but wish) the death on somebody whom you believed didn't harm anybody else, then it would be banworthy" may be a good standard. So you can advocate the death penalty for murderers and rapists and kidnappers (positions I agree with), but if you advocate the death penalty for Jewish people or black people or Christians, then it would get banned and you would face prosecution.
I think from here moving forward that that is a good standard to have.
The death penalty for unwanted unborn babies (pro choice) would be free speech (speech I don't agree with) because that's in pursuit of women's bodily autonomy.
But this also means if I call a black person the N word as a white person, then that is free speech because the N word isn't inheritely calling for the death of someone based on race.
Do DARTers agree with this standard? Yes or No?
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Greyparrot has blocked me. Pretty much what you can expect from many (not all, but many) free speech advocates on the right, greyparrot included.
You don't know anything about me.
Well, what did I get wrong?
If you are here to troll, you can join the ignore list.
It's not trolling; it's asking questions.
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@Greyparrot
I believe I did. Your question was:
Why do you think the rich oppose a flat tax?
And I said the left wing rich people oppose a flat tax because they are patriots and want to help their country fiscally.
But Roosevelt is saying you don't get many hours as an out of college sub teacher. You don't get to talk about how bad socialism is when it keeps you alive.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Yeah, he should get a job.
I don't like it when people on welfare talk about how bad socialism and free stuff from the government are. Lead by example. At least Harlem welfare recipients aren't hypocrites. You are!
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@Best.Korea
You do not have much freedom if you die early, since all of your choices that you could have had would disappear.
But it's from something that you chose to do (smoke despite all of the warnings in school telling people not to smoke). You have the freedom to make your life less safe under certain circumstances, but you should be encouraged to not exercise that freedom.
In fact, I think the age of consent for sex should be 15 or 16.
So it's a slight disagreement. I would prefer 16 to be the minimum age. But then that would mean you believe you should be banned from having sex with minors.
Age of consent for some other sexual activities should be lower.For example, masturbation is healthy, and its one of the safest sexual activities, so there is no reason to ban it.
I believe mastrabation is addictive; I've done it and I got addicted to it and still am and probably will be for decades. I started at 21. Currently, it's no big deal, but there is a boiling frog situation that I think is happening. I would prefer it if the school system told kids that they should delay it a lot because it is addictive. Don't ban it; it's not practical to do that. But encourage them to refrain while they don't know what it's like so they don't get addicted to it.
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@Greyparrot
Why do you think the rich oppose a flat tax?
The left wing ones oppose it because they believe they (and other billionaires) should be forced to help the poor. They donate a lot of money on their own (they would have to in order to not be a hypocrite).
The right wing ones want lower taxes for themselves.
But a billionaire can say rape should be illegal and rape should still be illegal. It doesn't matter who says a claim. What matters is it's accuracy.
Do you believe that the rich should have to pay more in taxes? Yes or no.
I would expect a teacher to actually answer the question; I would assume your degree made you smarter, especially since higher taxes means there is more money for their salary (assuming public school teacher).
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@Best.Korea
About life changing freedoms, its questionable and there can be debates about it, but it is commonly understood that drugs take away freedom, and so does tobacco.
Drugs for kids take away security, but not freedom.
The only thing that can take away freedom is (a ban or a mandate) from an external source.
For example, people who smoke tobacco dont usually start it because they wanna kill themselves, but death is the common result of smoking tobacco.
I thought they were courious as to how someone could get addicted to it and then they find out and they are addicted.
But this isnt topic meant for debating extreme cases, just to point out that child's choices need to be respected too if there is going to be a society based on freedom.
Well, you are a big advocate of making the age of consent 5 or something like that (which is a pretty extreme case). I think sex is comparably addictive to something like alcohol and young people should stay away from them both.
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@sadolite
I think that video is staged.
No way could a 5 year old kid be that dumb.
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@Best.Korea
It depends on the particular freedom.
Freedoms that are not anything more than nominally life changing, yes. If a kid wants to have Ice Cream or shoot hoops, that's fine.
If it's a life changing freedom (like addictions such as drugs like alcohol or sex), then no. They need to be mature enough, and should refrain from these until they are mature enough (my standard is 16 for sex, even if it's a 16 year old having sex with a 30 year old; either 16 year olds can mentally consent to sex or they can't and I Aire on the side of liberty). I would put alcohol, weed, and tobacco at the same age.
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@zedvictor4
Funny how GOD didn't have this technology when he first started sending us messages..It was burning bushes and tablets of stone back in the day.
He's GOD; he doesn't need technology; he can use magic/supernatural powers.
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@Greyparrot
Stop dodging the question like a coward.
Do you believe that taxes on the globalist elites should be raised?
A Yes or No is sufficient.
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@Greyparrot
It would be easy for them to try socialism if it's what they wanted to do; but you think anything left wing of Rand Paul is socialist.
The word, "socialist" for the right is the word, "racist" to the BLM left.
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@Greyparrot
You can argue that having food, shelter, and sundries that help mental health like entertainment all fall under "healthcare"When a country goes full central planning, this is the end goal.
You know that's not what the EU did and quit pretending like it's what they did.
But some things in society have to be socialized (like public school should exist. Without it, we would be stupid.)
Now, maybe public school should be less "woke", but it's a horrible idea to just eliminate public schools.
So some amount of socialization is needed.
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@Greyparrot
It's a yes or no question. A yes means you are left wing on the issue. A no means there is an argument that you are the Jeff Bezos SIMP (or something similar, like a bootlicker), not the people that want to raise taxes on the globalist elites.
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The argument for Nationalized healthcare is, "We all have to take care of each other with our tax dollars".
How far does this go? If one believed this consistently, then they would not support nationalized healthcare (NH), but internationalized healthcare(INH).
Basically, every country with NH agrees to form a treaty that states that they would join an INH pact, largely funded by the rich globalists.
Oh, wait? Countries like their independence. Alright. Kind of like people.
I don't respect NH; I can respect INH or I can respect the American model; but NH is too arbitrary.
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@zedvictor4
Though:I would suggest that Global words in the sky, are unlikely to convince anyone of anything, other than that someone wrote global words in the sky.
The words could be designed in a way that it would be impossible for a human to do it.
- There would be millions of iterations of the text.
- It would zoom in and zoom out pretty quickly.
- It would change colors, Italisize, get underlined, all at random.
- The more advanced technology gets, the less believable this would be because humans might actually be able to pull it off, so it should be done before Feb 16, 2024.
Only an all powerful God can pull this off.
Since it has yet to happen, it means God doesn't exist (or he wants to have us rely on faith, which would then mean it's impossible to prove God's existince; because any "proof" undermines faith).
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@Greyparrot
Do you want there to be higher taxes on the rich?
If yes, then you are left wing on that issue; even if corrupt democrats aren't.
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@Greyparrot
Those that advocate for cutting Bezos'es taxes simp for him more than those than link the GOP with bad things.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Gee, for a party that claims to stick up for the disabled, you (as someone who thinks being republican is bad) link it with being deaf.
Kindof ableist; but IDGAF, but the left would.
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Jessie Ventura vs Donald Trump.
Trump and Ventura give off similar vibes.
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@Statichead
mostly I think that it is bad because it is not serving everyone as it should. mainly the "rich get richer, poor get poorer" setup, which I wholly believe.
I'm not sure this is accurate.
The Median GDP per capita in the US is more than the Median in Europe.
It certainly is performing well, but that doesn't mean that everyone is being treated well. big business monopolies are treating everyone terribly- cutting corners left and right to make even more profits while selfishly taking a little more from everyone else, leaving nothing for the individuals.
I don't really notice that. GDP per capitas in the US (which measure salary, not wealth) have been increasing pretty consistently. This is not nearly as true in the EU.
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@Best.Korea
I asked Gods to give me knowledge of debating, and to great surprise, it happened.It took years, but it happened.I asked God to give me knowledge of words and poems, and it happened.I asked God to give me knowledge of gardening, and eventually I got the knowledge I wanted.I asked God to give me knowledge of wild edibles, and to my great surprise, I got great amount of knowledge just few years after I asked God.
This was entirely a combination of coincidence and hard work on your end.
People should put more trust in themselves than they should a God.
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@Statichead
but I also think there are some things wrong with capitalism.
Like what?
As you can probably guess, I live in the US, and right now the market hasn't been correcting itself like we've been told it's supposed to. What do you think about that?
How? The market is performing better than average since July 1 2023.
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