TheUnderdog

"But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29)

Being pro-choice is a sign of superior intellect, therefore they would not be a white supremist.

I'm LGBT

You' have to excuse my ignorance but is it possible to be all four?

But everyone goes to heaven.  Jesus paid for everyone's sins, so you go to heaven no matter what.

Trump attacked Carson for having an “pathological disease and for being violent for the brief time he threatened Trump’s victory.

No, a tiny portion of 1/6 protesters were seen carrying guns. Who knows how many guns were actually there or easily retrieved if gunfire had erupted.

But at least you now understand some protesters did have guns. You are making progress.

Trump said that Obama wasn’t born in America in order to appeal to racists who refuse to believe a black man could be or should be President. 

Is that a serious question? Use your brain Underdog 

Whether the people that died in the Holocaust were Jewish or not is irrelevant.

I don’t recommend repeating that little gem . It may offend a lot of people.

1. A Jew getting murdered is worse than a Gentile getting murdered?
   
2. A Gentile getting murdered is worse than a Jew getting murdered?
   

In this case, you said Trump isn’t as bad as Hitler because he didn’t murder millions of people. My answer is it even took Hitler time (12 years) to create an environment for mass murder.

If you believe the vast majority of undocumented immigrants aren't rapists, cite the percentage

Just the slightest amount of critical thinking skills should tell you that is true. 

“Defendants have said as much as well. In video evidence played at his trial, Guy Reffitt of Wylie, Tex., said that as he stood near the front of the mob on the west side of the Capitol, he counted eight firearms carried by five people.
Reffitt said that his count included his .40-caliber pistol and his Texas companion’s .45-caliber handgun, five firearms carried by a couple he met at the Capitol and a .22-caliber weapon carried by a woman who stopped to help him after he was hit with bear spray”

No, it’s not. Not to a reasonable person, and that is a standard used throughout our criminal code. 

The question is, are you a reasonable person or an unreasonable person?

What catchy title? Being called a racist is a catchy title?

He’s used this conspiracy theory to make a name for himself with bigots. 

When Trump was in power, there was no genocide of 18 million people dead like there was Hitler.

It was 6 million Jews. 

How long had Hitler been in power before he started murdering Jews?

First you have to scape goat them. Then you have to dehumanize them. 

Now he’s attempting to do the same with Democrats.

They had guns, they just didn’t use them.  They had more guns stashed close by too.

Excuse me, 2015, so you were 13 yo.

But thank you once again for demonstrating the point I've been making to you; that you have no core political values

which is why you seem incapable of understanding anyone else's worldview or why anyone else feels the way they do about political issues.

Claims that he's racist over support for a border wall.  Bush actually built the wall.  The left wing matrix didn't get angry at Bush over actually building the wall.

The secure borders and fencing act of 06 was a practical solution to a practical problem.

 It wasn't the cornerstone of Bush's campaign.

You seem to have forgotten that Trump began his campaign by calling Mexicans living in the US criminals and rapists.

None of this mattered because the actual wall wasn't the point, it was the chant. 

 If you were as bigoted as his supporters you would have seen this. If you cared about migrants you would have seen this also. 

Now would you please explicitly state that you misled about 23 protestors having guns at the capitol (not the whitehouse) on Jan 6?

Putin thanks you.

Trump will give himself and the rich another tax break which will bankrupt the USA. Well, maybe it will just shutdown SS and Medicare.

https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/Festivus-2023.pdf

McCain got hit with Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Yet he campaigned off of doing that. Trump was one vote away from repealing it — John McCain’s vote 

1. He hated Trump that TDS got ahold of him (just like a lot of never Trumpers that call themselves republican but never give him credit on any times when they agree with him).
   
2. He was the most persuadable republican out of 50 senators (2% chance).
   

I think if your biggest political concern is who left wing media hates, you should just stay home.

The media lied to you, and you're still falling for some of it. Stop trusting them. Question motives. Notice patterns of falsehoods.

Let’s see, as a candidate in 2005, he gained notoriety by lying and saying he had found evidence the Barrack Obama was not born in Hawaii.

Then he said that immigrants from Mexico were rapists and drug dealers, again lies for the idiots in America.

Right, like Hitler was charismatic 

There are cases where individual's freedom is violated to achieve happiness for more people.

Well, the system in USA doesnt elect according to majority in USA. If it did, Trump would never become president.

Consequentialism would violate both types of freedom under circumstances where it brings some greater good.

Criteria for determining which choices are rights are not assumptions.

 For example, consequentialism says that its okay to violate freedom if it carries some greater benefit.

Utilitarianism would prefer increasing happiness over not violating freedom.

In the billions. Again, go read it lol.

Stop making excuses for someone who ran for more than a decade on repealing Obamacare. 

His constituents hated Obamacare, but he thinks he’s better than them.

So after lying to your constituents for a decade, it’s okay to switch your mind in a heartbeat. Good job.

The idea of liberty is usually divided on:

1. Freedom from (you cant be killed, you cant be robbed...)

Or 

2. Freedom to (right to free speech, right to vote...)

Thats how most countries make laws.

I think the idea of liberty doesnt have "golden rule".

There were some theories, such as greatest equal freedom. It says that everyone should have same amount of freedom, and that such freedom should be in greatest amount possible while not violating other's freedom.

But the idea that people can be free from influence of others or from impact of interaction with others is not realistic. Thats why I say there is no golden rule for liberty.

They also murder each other a lot

Coherent libertarians, that is the coherent principle of liberty is "do what ever you want so long as you don't reduce the choices others would have if it was impossible to interact with you"

Lots of things. Go read Rand Paul’s annual festivus report that highlights dumb spending.

John McCain is left wing on healthcare (at least by American standards in that time).

John McCain ran on repealing Obamacare. He’s a fraud.

I would vote for RFK over them.

MAGA is a radical Populist personality cult

about as far from American Conservatism as Pluto from the Earth.

As soon as you do, you will discover that the crowd chanted for hours "Hang Mike Pence."  The crowd brought effective nooses to with 30 feet of the place where Pence hid with his wife and family.  

• Putin did it with poison.  Xi overthrew the Chinese government and he only had to disappear a couple of the old school guys.  Trump wants to do it using our old fashioned and unnecessarrily complicated electoral system, using it or abusing it.
  

MAGA did bring a significant cache of guns to Jan 6th., more than enough to kill a few thousand necessary to secure the Capitol.

Keep in mind that DC has the strictest gun laws in the US

• Nevertheless, more than 123 terrorists have been charged with using a  deadly weapon onto the Capitol grounds.  114 Police officers were hospitalized.
  

• We know of a couple of other independent caches, dudes who just filled their cars up with their home arsenals and drove an impressive array of arms including pipe bombs.
  
• Also, there other pipe bombs planted that failed to go off.   Obviously the original plan was to bomb the DNC and RNC National headquarters simultaeously, so that most police would be away from teh Capitol when the mob arrived.
  

Because he tried to get help from Russia to get elected 

he lied over 30,000 times while President 

Because he botched the response to Covid and ended up killing over 1 million Americans 

Because he tried to shake down a foreign leader for help with his reelection 

Because he invented the Big Lie when he lost the 2020 election and incited an insurrection to prevent the peaceful transfer of power

Spending.

Healthcare (screw John McCain). Senate Republicans, etc.

Haley and Christie are warmongering neocons. Biden is that + other shitty policies

But then don't be afraid to criticize the GOP on issues where you disagree.

I do.

I wouldn’t vote for any of them actually. I’ve stayed numerous times in other threads that I wouldn’t vote for Nikki Haley either. Being a Republican doesn’t automatically garner my vote.

We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.

1. People can do whatever they want with their lives as long as they aren't harming anybody else to any extent.
   
2. People can do whatever they want with their lives as long as they aren't harming anybody else to significant extent.
   

1. Should the rich (the globalists) be taxed enough to pay for things like free college of poor people (we the people)?
   
2. Are vacciene mandates bad?
   

Why does it matter?

1. Nationwide 15 week abortion ban
   
2. Transwomen belong in women's sports and they should be treated like women in every regard.  A woman is anyone that identifies as a woman!
   
3. Vaccine mandates are horrible!  End the mandates!
   
4. Abolish ICE!
   

 I believe in people and their policies/actions, not what party they are.

There are many Republicans who I would never vote for

Well there are only two possibilities then: Either no 17 year old has attempted this scam and had their bluff called, or it isn't so newsworthy that either of us know about it after all.

1. Aren't creative or greedy enough to think of trying this.
   
2. Are worried about parental approval and getting evicted.
   

Other than that, there is no point in telling me to change the laws. I would if I could.

People should not be encouraged to do blackmail, especially against criminals because that requires that criminal activity go unreported (in theory) and it motivates people to entrap others into crimes they may not have ever committed (people should never stand to gain by fellow citizens committing crimes).

Hundreds of rape cases are doubtless going on right now

Unless a powerful political faction stands to profit these things don't make national news.

They hate pedophiles, not people who were tricked into 'acting like a pedophile'.

Apparently all it takes is the presumption that I'm anti-pain and then anyone who disagrees with me automatically becomes a pro-pain absolutist until proven otherwise...

To be clear, you wouldn't be charged with a crime for the sex, but blackmail is a crime in many jurisdictions. It is often a felony to attempt blackmail even when the blackmail is reporting a 'actual' crime.

 Of course minors often get away with things adults can't, but the window of opportunity is very small if you only receive payments for 1-2 years as a minor.

1. repealing age of consent laws entirely
   
2. For women who claim to be 18 or older while 17 or younger and have sex with a 25 year old guy that thinks they are 18 or older to not get treated as a child in that situation (meaning the guy who had sex with her legally wouldn't be liable for child rape, so the 17 year old female loses her blackmail power).
   

One of the reasons bars are locations to hit on people is because it would be illegal for minors to be drinking. 

Most people can see through a fair amount of BS if you focus their attention for longer than 5 minutes (such as in court).

The question is not whether they support pedophilia but whether they are so blinded by outrage as to recognize the difference between pedophilia and a young woman committing the crime of blackmail.

Behind closed doors (like in a jury) and forced to focus for hours, most would be a bit more rational and it only takes one.

Pedophilia isn't a crime

be upfront with it if it's what you believe.

Says the pro-pain absolutist... I wasn't convinced by your denial. (lol)

That was basically Epstein's business model and it apparently worked well for a time.

Fortunately of all the evil 17 year old women very few have the "balls" (aggressive disregard for consequences) to try. 

Outside of the pedo-paranoia at the national level, juries and prosecutors do care about context.

Nothing consensual should be called rape. Whether or not it should be allowed is a more complicated subject, but if it is banned it should be under much lighter punishment, carry no "sex offender" etc...

1. Give me your entire net worth ($60K) by venmo.  I don't want to look at your ugly face and stinky body anymore.  Just venmo me the money.  You have 48 hours to comply.  If you don't, #2 will take into effect:
   
2. I turn you into the police for statutory rape where you lose the $60K and your freedom.  Your reputation goes down the toilet.  You will be an outcast from society.  You may kill yourself from societal rejection and homelessness.  I don't care.  You mean nothing to me except an income source that needs to be depleted as quickly as possible and then I move on to the next sucker; the next SIMP.  Girl power!
   

Appeal to the language of class envy and demonizing "the other" is no substitute for a sound argument. A person's rightful property is their rightful property even if you happen to think they have too much.

But in the long run, the inassailability of property rights even when people had 10,000x more legitimate reason to hate the concept than today set a precedent that allowed for the success of capitalism when Europe began urbanizing around the High Middle Ages and afterward. 

Scandinavian politicians themselves have publicly denied that their countries are socialist. For example, the World Bank reports that Denmark is ranked #4 in ease of doing business (compared to #6 for the US), and Norway and Sweden are #9 and #10, respectively. Similarly this article lists Sweden and Denmark as two of Europe's top tax havens.

Believe it or not, I have no problem with Dr. Fauci. The fact that some other republicans cut open their skulls and flushed their brains down the toilet as soon as Covid hit doesn't oblige me to do the same.

From everything I've heard, there were a lot of tax loopholes that the rich took advantage of.

It's also worth noting that we had like two good decades, immediately following WWII and the Great Depression, and then the economy fell into massive stagnation in the 70s.

As for corporate bailouts, they aren't partisan and President Obama was more than happy to bail out General Motors.

Except government spending is addictive, as I've demonstrated.

 I think it's hypocritical to call somebody else evil for not wanting to pile on more government debt to service the poor and sick when you yourself give very little if anything to charity. Not calling out you specifically, but the left in general.

If Democrats made a binding promise that: (1). the conservative plan will be implemented; and (2). whatever necessary steps will to be taken to ensure Republicans don't lose any congressional seats in the aftermath of said implementation

I still dont understand how pain plays a role in any ideology

1. Banning AR 15s, because of pain producing mass shootings.
   
2. UHC because of pain producing medical bills.
   
3. Legalized abortion, because of maternal pregnancy pain.
   
4. Anti ICE, because of the pain caused with deportations and forced single motherhood.
   

The total can be more than the sum of its parts. If you bleed Bezos down to his last private jet each theft may have reduced average pain up till that point but still created more pain overall by:

A) increasing the cost of tuition

B) reducing the value of degrees (wasting the students time)

C) creating a generation of relatively useless people who can't produce, and suffer a loss of buying power when there are no more Bezoses to steal from

D) making sure anyone who would over produce moves to a freer society before doing so (ever shrinking territory for prosperity as the flawed policy spreads)

 30% to taxes 

That means you earn about $570K/year. 

No it doesn't. Sometimes you have such naive assumptions and oversights that I wonder if you are American (like confusing the white house and capitol building)

If you are okay poor Floridian children starving to death due to lack of welfare (if their parents just don't want to get a job but vote red because of transgender culture war), honestly, I would be fine with that because I don't care how your parents vote, I don't want to take care of you.

No idea what you're on about.

But an anti pain person would try and ban insults whether they effect people from Harlem or West Virginia.

Then you have another example where a typical democrat is not anti-pain. They don't care if calling people racist causes pain.

Well for a christian participating in murder is likely to end up in hell and that's pretty painful for the 'doctors' and mother.

Now personally I don't care if a murder reduces unwanted pain over the short or long term. I morality (the objective morality) is based around liberty

Start with the guy in the mirror.

 total war against a nuclear power is definitely not "anti pain", in fact it is futile and insane.

US hegemony is based.

I'll help you pack.

So... how aren't you a pro-pain absolutist?

1. Anti rape
   
2. Anti Ukraine war
   
3. Anti Israel War
   
4. Anti ICE
   
5. Anti lockdowns
   
6. Anti Qualified immunity
   

Having lots of sexual partners is more correlated to STI. Thus, reducing number of sexual partners reduces STI.

So do you agree that its better if less children get abused? 

A map being bonded to one child is less likely to have 300 partners. 

And adoption is usually for couples, so instead of two maps each abusing many children, you would have two maps abusing one child.

People are more likely to respect regulation if regulation exists. 

"A Johns Hopkins University study found that children in foster care are four times more likely than other children to be sexually abused, and those who live in group homes experience an abuse rate of 28 times those of other children. There are indicators that children living in a foster care situation may be more likely to experience abuse at the hands of their foster parents or other people living in the home."

1. This increases the rate of child sex abuse by X% (X>0).  I this is the case, then the idea was a tried plan, it didn't work, and it gets dropped.
   
2. This decreases the rate of child sex abuse by X% (X>0).  If this is the case, then I would support the idea and I hope more people do and this policy should stick around.
   

About 15% of children get sexually abused before 18. 

The report usually comes from others who find out about relationship.

Most map wont punch a kid or beat a kid up. 

Most map wont force themselves on a child. In fact, judging from statistics, most map wont even use threats to get what they want.

STI are usually the result of having many sexual partners. Afghanistan has less percentage of STI than USA, despite Afghanistan having child marriages and USA trying to protect children from that.

 Some map have over 300 partners. 

When you make something entirely illegal, you also make it entirely unregulated.

Plus, children in foster care have high chance of being sexually abused. 

Foster care contributes much more to prison population than sexual abuse. 

There are cases where parents sexually abuse their child, but sending that child to foster care isn't beneficial.

Most map aren't violent

To state the obvious, there aren't enough Jeff Bezoses and George Soroses in the world so that $1 from each would pay for much of anything.

 It's more like people like me who have lost 40% of my income to inflation

 30% to taxes 

They supported slavery. 

Which party supports flying the confederate flag the most?

Does allowing someone to fly a flag cause more pain than chattel slavery complete with lashings?

See if you try to dodge with a question, two can play that game.

What is the date of expiration so I need not waste your time with other examples that don't matter?

 I believed you mentioned that democrats are anti-war, but that was in the past you see.

No, it would be like saying the republican party was anti-pain when they circulated uncle tom's cabin and refused to ignore the suffering of the slaves. Recall the point is about consistency:

Coming back with "yea but they changed" proves my point.

If you're arguing that the democrats always believe they are reducing pain, ceded. It's simply not a point of differentiation as republicans right-tribers believe exactly the same thing.

In fact that reminds me of another left-tribe agenda point that certainly caused unwanted dissatisfaction ('pain'). The COVID lockdowns

The truth is that left-tribers believe what they're told to believe and justify it later. Empathy may be the most common emotion at the root but anger at perceived injustice is definitely in there and it easily turns to rage. This is no different from republicans or any other group of humans.

Whatever they may believe the fact is that ceding Donetsk and Luhansk after an internationally overseen referendum would have averted war

 the deep state is gaining enormously by this war both in terms of money and cementing US hegemony.

1. Russia has a deep state too, and theirs is more powerful over Russia than America's is over America.
   
2. US hegemony is based.  If this flag offends you, I'll help you pack.
   

They can call themselves the party of divine righteousness but that doesn't make everyone else devils be default and that is exactly what you implied by threatening to write of the right-tribe as sadists (still shaking my head at that, you must be very desperate for attention; which I guess you got).

Anything that can be distributed to the masses was taken from somebody else, either with or without their consent (i.e. theft). 

Now, imagine the average poor person in today's America, real life. By American standards, their lives aren't very good. But that's because we keep setting the bar higher and higher and higher. What would their ancestors in 1890 say if they could see it?

were inoculated against many deadly illnesses as children

Nonetheless, anything that negatively skews the cost-benefit of putting in effort and resources ("conducting commerce") to turn a profit will harm the economy through disincentivizing commerce. 

 It's common sense that penalizing something will get you less of it, and rewarding something will get you more of it.

That's a big if, but just for the sake of argument. Even if that's true, then his suffering is not "for no reason" but so that his children and grandchildren will enjoy a better standard of living than he ever did.

 "Hey look, using heroin one time will be an amazing euphoric experience, despite the downsides of repeated use, so the most rational thing is for everybody to try heroin once and never again." What this misses is that our behaviors are habit-shaping and character-forming. If we cross the line into trying heroin once, then we're at risk of trying it again. And again. And again.

I mean, think about it. Every time a new welfare program (e.g. Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, SNAP, etc) is put in, it becomes politically unthinkable to not reauthorize funding for it each subsequent year.

We're now more than $30 trillion in debt. 

The only way to avoid this is to uphold property rights and trim the size of the government beast even when it hurts. 

The only way to avoid this is to uphold property rights and trim the size of the government beast even when it hurts. 

Every dollar the government steals could have averted unwanted pain.

Pro lifers being pro lifers isn't a tribe. 

Yet you said:

Like if I asked the goal of the pro life tribe

They supported slavery. 

They are now pro-war and their leaders have cut off any attempt at a negotiated peace in Ukraine. 

and yet Jesus explicitly stopped that from happening...?

But name me one democrat policy they believe in that increases unwanted pain undeniably.

Name one republican one that does. No one is going to admit that.

1. Abortion bans
   
2. Legalized AR 15s (which creates more mass shootings)
   
3. Not supporting Medicare for all (including for the undocumented)
   
4. Separating families with at least one undocumented parent
   
5. Not supporting government paid for college
   

A more meaningful label for what I oppose than "democrats". 

 but they aren't a tribe and they know as well as everyone else that you can't make a tribe around a single issue without becoming irrelevant.

Even if you could very few people have only one controversial issue of interest.

Neither faction is consistently about anything. 

A) it doesn't help the poor, and B) doesn't grant grace.