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Theweakeredge

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Total posts: 3,457

Posted in:
The future value argument
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@Tarik
I didn't "Mention" it randomly, I was responding to another's post. 
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Posted in:
The future value argument
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@Benjamin
Wrong actually - it creates pollution that kills millions a year-  and does stop doing it worth the benefit? Definitely, especially in the long run - but having every corporation suddenly quit is harder than you seem to think it is. 

Also - no - your completely wrong. At least in your interpretation - it is indeed a result of someone being alive - however - you can't just jump to - "therefore the fetus has moral value" the only reason the girl has value is because she isn't a fetus - not the otherway around. If she were a fetus it wouldn't apply, trying to come to your conclusion backwards is assuming your conclusion to be true, nothing more, nothing less. 

In other words - trying to say that someone has value because they haven't had an abortion is technically correct, however, them not being aborted is not the cause of them gaining value - for example - if that person were to be a failed abortion, then they would still have value once they were born. It's merely the stopping of a potential life; however, until that life is definite - there is nothing to be discussed in regards to the fetus's value. 

This also all assumes that a potential person's value is worth more than a actual person - I wouldn't say so. 
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The future value argument
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@Tarik
Prove that, and prove that it matters- you weren't listening if you think that being true would change my position \\\
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CRT Breaks Everything
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@Lemming
No - you see- my point was that the author never said that the evolution image was causing systemic racism - that wasn't the author's point when they brought that up, not primarily, the title of the article is completely seperate from what we're now talking about. Regardless, FruitInspector has completely abondoned their initial point, as such I see no point in continuing, continuing a talk with someone so dishonest. 
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CRT Breaks Everything
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@Lemming
You don't get what I'm talking about-  until you actually read the debate - please butt out. 
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A Brief Greetings from the New Chief Moderator
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@MisterChris
Though MisterChris and I are nearly opposite on a lot of stuff, I still look forward to see what he'll do here - it's obvious to me that this position means a lot to him, and that he'll do his best to do what he believes to best benefit the site. Overall, I'm glad it's him in this position. 
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15$ minimum wage
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@thett3
Um here's why I won't respond - you already strawmanned me in the first paragraph - my claim was regarding generation wealth - and your own article agreed it to be caused by a gap in inhereitance - you are so dishonest-  just admit your lie and we can move on. 
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CRT Breaks Everything
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@Fruit_Inspector
Sure - doesn't mean that he wrote it down though - you are asserting that it was declared, stated, etc-  he merely implied it - actually no - in the paper itself it wasn't implied - you were primed, hahahha! Oh my god this is fucking amazing, you don't even realize it, you were actually convinced by that article and you don't even realize it? HAhahahaha!!

And yup - they do - cuz those who lie to perpetuate their own agenda, with no greater good, just for their own sake - trash - that's my opinion on the matter. 
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Evolution-ation
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@Yassine
um... no? We know that finches developed long enough to eventually gain features which best suited their environment - natural selection - which is a mechanism that simply describes how creatures either adapt to their environment or die. Simple as that - evolution is the long term process of that - no unlimited time shit - your making strawmen. 

Furthermore, you simply handwaved my evidence away with no actual evidence - until you bring an ounce of evidence I consider you a conspiracy theorist - all you have to do to change my mind is actually present evidence for your conclusion. 
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Social Democracy or socialism
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@Double_R
Well... incorrect - there are actually a good amount of socialists in America- the thing is that the right wing likes to conflate socialism and lenin-communism. 
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15$ minimum wage
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@thett3
No - you cherry picked the numbers that showed TODAY black and white families get the same level of inhereitance, and that TODAY Black Americans get only 1/3 of what white people, however, you completely ignore the fact that this is a generational problem as the people who wrote the report you used literally specifcy, you know, that it causes more of the black/white gap than anything else? Kinda' interesting how you and your sources always disagree-  then I provided more evidence  which you have... ignored? 

And nope - you see - inhereitance also happens through housing, locations with good schools, prestige, and higher percentages of rich people yeah - so - its almost like if what I'm saying is true, then black people would face educational discrimination, housing discrimination, and an underrepresentation in rich people for their population.... oh, that is whats happening! As I literally  cited in my first source. You cherry pick dude, if you're gonna use a source, actually read all of it, instead of ignoring the bits you don't like. 
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Evolution-ation
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@Yassine
I don't debate here anymore - not enough time - I welcome you to check out my: "https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6192-i-m-going-on-hiatus" which I posted a month ago. 

Furthermore, you're right the fossil record itself isn't evolution - it is the data which provides the evidence for evolution - good specification there huh? And I already provided evidence, you rejected them with hand-waving, not a single sourced point, not a single credible source - just conjecture. Maybe when you show more than conjecture I'll take you seriously, until then have fun being a quack. Again, you're bites at my pride do nothing. 

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CRT Breaks Everything
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@Fruit_Inspector
Thats the thing though - they don't - they never claimed that - you are asserting it to be the fact because you assert to know what you're talking about. My thing is - it just doesn't say that-  does it imply that it's racist? Well yeah, obviously, but it never says it causes systemic racism - a part of it? Sure - did it say that though? Nope. You are merely asserting it to be true

Also - you stop getting respect whenever you stop being intellectually honest- then you are nothing more than a liar in my eyes. 
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CRT Breaks Everything
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@Fruit_Inspector
Actually... curiously, it doesn't say that - not even once 
And yet, even in the current literature about human origins that we do have, the end point of evolution is often depicted as a white man carrying a spear. This image not only eliminates our African heritage but also erases women and children from the picture. Because evolution is foundational knowledge, we need the story to be told in many different ways, by many different voices.

As we move forward to undo systemic racism in every aspect of business, society, academia and life, let’s be sure to do so in science education as well. Embracing humanity’s dark-skinned ancestors with love and respect is key to changing our relationship to the past, and to creating racial equity in the present. These ancient people made the rest of us possible. Opening our hearts to them and embracing them as heroic, fully human and worthy of our respect is part of the process of healing from our racist history.
It moves on from talking about that image - to a new paragraph - about the entire image of systemic racism - you know the whole "business, society, academia, and life" thing - so no - the two things don't connect. Is it a form of racism? Yeah, definitely, was it claimed to be systemically racist nope. I mean, I think it's true, but its just incredible how bad you are at reading. 

You even missed the whole "erased women and children from the picture", cuz its a foundational thing, so being it told in different ways is important-  the entire point of that paragraph... jeez you really are bad at this - also - so what?? What does it matter? Are you so astounded that racism exists that you can't believe that something like this exists? It does, deal with it. 
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Should reparations be provided for slavery?
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@drlebronski
yup
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CRT Breaks Everything
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@Fruit_Inspector
So... you're a fan of posting one statement from an entire article, just stripping the context in order to make your opposition seem dumb? Huh - no wonder people call you dishonest - let's see where the statement is actually coming from, shall we?

"The global scientific community overwhelmingly accepts that all living humans are of African descent. Most scientific articles about our African origins focus on genetics. The part of the story that is not widely shared is about the creation of human culture. We are all descended genetically, and also culturally, from dark-skinned ancestors. Early humans from the African continent are the ones who first invented tools; the use of fire; language; and religion. These dark skinned early people laid down the foundation for human culture.  Considering the short life span of our early ancestors, these original innovators were probably also very young. No one who follows artistic trends will be surprised to learn that, from the beginning, human culture was essentially invented by teenagers. And by culture I don’t just mean the arts, I mean the whole shebang."
Ah, so I immediately grasp the angle the article is coming from - that some white supremacists reject evolution on the basis that we came from Africa.. which - yeah - would be racist. 

"I want to unmask the lie that evolution denial is about religion and recognize that at its core, it is a form of white supremacy that perpetuates segregation and violence against Black bodies. Under the guise of “religious freedom,” the legalistic wing of creationists loudly insists that their point of view deserves equal time in the classroom. Science education in the U.S. is constantly on the defensive against antievolution activists who want biblical stories to be taught as fact. In fact, the first wave of legal fights against evolution was supported by the Klan in the 1920s. Ever since then, entrenched racism and the ban on teaching evolution in the schools have gone hand in hand. In his piece, What We Get Wrong About the Evolution Debate, Adam Shapiro argues that “the history of American controversies over evolution has long been entangled with the history of American educational racism.”"
Oh, so even more stuff that makes sense - cuz' yeah, creationists, both tend to be right wing, and tend to oppose evolution - so yeah actually this all lines up. Even bringing some credibility to the argument further by tying in the KKK. Very interesting that it makes more sense once you read it.

"At the heart of white evangelical creationism is the mythology of an unbroken white lineage that stretches back to a light-skinned Adam and Eve. In literal interpretations of the Christian Bible, white skin was created in God's image. Dark skin has a different, more problematic origin. As the biblical story goes, the curse or mark of Cain for killing his brother was a darkening of his descendants' skin. Historically, many congregations in the U.S. pointed to this story of Cain as evidence that Black skin was created as a punishment."
Huh, how interesting - let's look that up - fact check it, ya' know?

"Many interpreters have questioned the “mark” placed on Cain after he kills his brother Abel. The notion of the “mark of Cain” as dark skin is a familiar interpretive tradition. Less well known are interpretations that treat the mark as white skin. This article traces how Black interpreters connect the “mark of Cain,” white skin, and White violence."
Huh... so is a thing. Ya' know, as recognized by a study

"American Protestant racial beliefs on the mark of Cain
At some point after the start of the slave trade in the United States, many[citation neededProtestant denominations began teaching the belief that the mark of Cain was a dark skin tone in an attempt to justify their actions, although early descriptions of Romani as "descendants of Cain" written by Franciscan friar Symon Semeonis suggest that this belief had existed for some time. Protestant preachers wrote exegetical analyses of the curse, with the assumption that it was dark skin.[19]"
Even more stuff - interesting - very interesting. From this perspective - it makes a lot of sense actually -seems like your a bullshitter my friend. 

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15$ minimum wage
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@thett3
It's hard to give you good faith when you have repeatedly argued that cherry-picking is "so swell", I could screenshot the whole thing if you want? Dude, I don't argue with you in good faith, you lost my confidence when you literally admitted to cherry picking - without even mentioning it. 

The Black-white wealth gap today is a continuation of decades-long trends in wealth inequality, as shown in figure 1. Over the past 30 years, the median wealth of white households has consistently dwarfed that of Black households—ranging from a gap of $106,900 in 1992 to $185,400 in 2007 (both adjusted for inflation to 2019 dollars). Furthermore:
  • In the second quarter of 2020, white households—who account for 60 percent of the U.S. population—held 84 percent ($94 trillion) of total household wealth in the U.S.
  • Comparatively, Black households—who account for 13.4 percent of the U.S. population—held just 4 percent ($4.6 trillion) of total household wealth.
So... basically, when the same thing happens over and over again, to the same demographic, disparities tend to pop up. 
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Evolution-ation
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@Yassine
No - you've made claims... and yes - it is data - if you bothered to read any of the studies you'd know that the entire fossil record IS THE DATA. Like, an entire archive. You have a narrative, the difference is that you have no evidence - if all you're willing to do is talk bullshit, then I'm not gonna bother - cuz' you're either lying or so convinced of your own position your ignorant to anything opposing your worldview. 

Your "arguments" are just.. well not true. That's about it. 
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Is joe biden racist?
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@drlebronski
yup  - 
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15$ minimum wage
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@thett3
Dude you really aren't comprehending this apparently - as black people were redlined and discriminated, and whites began mounting more wealth (which, by the way, not a single source on that article, please get something more credible), and black people are then less likely to go to college - that was my point - it actually is tied in - cuz' guess what -  your own source disagrees with you - because you are cherry picking - you take what you want and ignore everything else - it's not rational nor evidenced in the first place. You like the appearance of being right, try to actually be right next time - jeez. 
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Derek Chauvin was found guilty
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@Lemming
Well, yeah, I'm aware  - more rhetorical than that, lol
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Social Democracy or socialism
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@TheUnderdog
Yes you did - whenever you were born in this nation and partook in public education - you signed it - not literally - jesus. And seriously? Cool dude, I'm talking about publishers, they are highly selective and considered both race and gender, so yeah, not talking about you. The fact that you didn't understand the example with the murderers proves my point - not holding people accountable for being assholes isn't something you can justify with "it's their nature", else we'd let murderers off free. That's my point. 
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15$ minimum wage
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@thett3
By some estimates bequests and transfers account for at least half of aggregate wealth (Gale and Scholz 1994), have recently averaged 3 percent of total household disposable personal income (Feiveson and Sabelhaus 2018), and account for more of the racial wealth gap than any other demographic or socioeconomic indicator (Hamilton and Darrity 2010).8 
From your own source - this is literally a repeat of our debate.

You see-  I consider the interpretation of the experts themselves, consider this little tidbit:
They are also more likely to have a parent with a college degree. Since higher levels of education are associated with higher levels of wealth (see, for example, the Bulletin article), this association suggests White and other families are likely to have wealthier parents than Black or Hispanic families.
You see- wealth is accumilated over multiple generations - with things such as college degrees enhancing the likelyhood of increased wealth. Considering that black families were heavily segregated since even before the 1920s. and generations are considered around 30 years on average, I'd say 3 generations to accumliate wealth, not considering the already heavy lead white families had - is more than enough to account for it. 

What I'm saying is that you are considering one generation - and it isn't enough - there's a reason why your own paper attributes this to be one of the more of the racial wealth gap than anything else - cuz' the rates have increased! As in - the rates of black families getting inheritance, and the amount inhereited. 
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Atheist's come forth
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@EtrnlVw
Nope - Jesus literally says the only way to get to heaven is by believing in him and and asking for forgiveness and all that crap - you can scour your holy book for contradictions, but I think that would help me more than disagree with my point. Furthermore, I merely put on what got me to start in the road - not my current disposition - but - with that interpretation of the bible - it's not a bad objection - not good, but better than some. 

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15$ minimum wage
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Again - no verification to prove you aren't lying, and nothing to say that this happens widespread and that you aren't (Given that this is true) aren't an outlier. 
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Evolution-ation
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@Yassine
Dude - some of the claims you made were literally contrdicted by the data in the source. Furthermore, I've yet to see a single piece of evidence to support your conjecture... which, thus far, is all I see - conjecture and a dude who doesn't understand what a species is. 
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Evolution-ation
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@Yassine
So you have... .a bunch of claims? Most of which are refuted by the exact data your trying to argue against? I see I don't need to waste my time - you are a liar - no need to spend more time on you. 
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Social Democracy or socialism
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@TheUnderdog
You see  -as someone who lives in the US you have a requirement to the social contract, and that also means you owe them enough to survive - furthermore - you actually DO give your money to people in Africa, a lot of foreign funding is taken straight from your taxes - so yes - you do do that. To get back from that aside - in exchange of someone living and maintaining their buisness, lives, etc, in America, they owe the government money so that the government can continue to make infrastructure and give people the rights they need to live -social contract- you see - one of those rights are life - and that includes right to be able to have that life safeguarded. It's pretty basic shit. 

Wrong about the degree stuff too - the fact that you can't make money with a degree that you paid for is not the same as saying that that person is some how inept, a lot of times it means that the job market is extremely selective, and in a lot of cases disrciminatory - take the creative writing field - for a long time women couldn't make any money selling books - because they were heavily disrciminated against when it came to publishing books - that doesn't mean that they were bad writers it meant that the society was selective to an unfair degree. That is how society is - for you to not understand that is why I call you a moron. 

Also - because inflation is different in different places how much you make isn't the only factor you equate when talking about poverty - do you think that making 15,000  a year is "rich", because we make a lot less than that - percisely speaking - we make around 8,500 anaully, we live mostly off of governmental stuff - and this is considering that both of my parents work - weird right? We're actually poor even interanationally - and even someone who were to make say - 20,000 wouldn't have the excess funds for others - because you need that money in America just to get by - you don't at all consider living wage - which is - again - 40,000. You only ever look at things at the surface level, skin deep, superficial. 

And again I ask you - are you actually stupid?? When I said we should pay murderers I was making a direct correlation to your argument - someone doing something shitty isn't excusable because it's their "nature", that literally doesn't matter. How do you not see these things? 
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Evolution-ation
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@Yassine
Well no - cuz' first of all - you are the one to have intially made the claim - furthermore - I am just describing you - you are denying science, therefore you are a science denier - pretty easy. 

As a scientific theory, however, which facts does evolutionary theory explain? One pivotal example is the succession in the fossil record. This evolution, namely, macroevolution, explains the larger evolutionary picture that is the appearance of the greater groups, such as the evolution of mammals, insects, and plants. Fossilized mammals are easily recognized, as they have distinct types of teeth, such as molars, canines, and incisors. These vertebrates are also very likely to fossilize on account of their rigid teeth and hard cranium. If mammals are so easily fossilized, how can we explain a rich fossil record full of vertebrates and invertebrates with no mammalian fossil before 300 million years ago?

Similarly, if we dig deeper still, disclosing 500 million years old layers, we find no hard skeleton vertebrates but plenty of fossilized invertebrates in a boost of diversity that we call the Cambrian Explosion. There are no vertebrates in this explosion because vertebrates appear in a much later explosion. Digging even deeper, to 600 million years old records, we find strata with soft-bodied Ediacaran animals but no hard-shelled invertebrates and no vertebrates. In one billion years old strata, we find only single-celled organisms.

How can we find, in old strata, many single celled organisms but not a single mammalian tooth? The only reasonable explanation for these facts is that 400 million years ago, mammals had not yet evolved; 500 million years ago, vertebrates had not yet evolved; 600 million years ago, hard-shelled invertebrates had not yet evolved; and one billion years ago,
multicellular life had not yet evolved. Smaller local successions are also observable in the fossil record; such as the beautiful strings of intermediate fossils that include amphibians (Kustchera and Elliot, 2013), birds, whales (Thewissen, 2009), horses, and humans. These successions in the fossil record are the most obvious evidence to macroevolution (Figure 2). In fact, the entire fossil record is a set of millions of intermediate fossils that provide solid evidence of how macroevolution worked in the past billion years.

Scientists also have gained an understanding of the processes by which new species originate. A new species is one in which the individuals cannot mate and produce viable descendants with individuals of a preexisting species. The split of one species into two often starts because a group of individuals becomes geographically separated from the rest. This is particularly apparent in distant remote islands, such as the Galápagos and the Hawaiian archipelago, whose great distance from the Americas and Asia means that arriving colonizers will have little or no opportunity to mate with individuals remaining on those continents. Mountains, rivers, lakes, and other natural barriers also account for geographic separation between populations that once belonged to the same species.

Once isolated, geographically separated groups of individuals become genetically differentiated as a consequence of mutation and other processes, including natural selection. The origin of a species is often a gradual process, so that at first the reproductive isolation between separated groups of organisms is only partial, but it eventually becomes complete. Scientists pay special attention to these intermediate situations, because they help to reconstruct the details of the process and to identify particular genes or sets of genes that account for the reproductive isolation between species.

A particularly compelling example of speciation involves the 13 species of finches studied by Darwin on the Galápagos Islands, now known as Darwin's finches. The ancestors of these finches appear to have immigrated from the South American mainland to the Galápagos. Today the different species of finches on the island have distinct habitats, diets, and behaviors, but the mechanisms involved in speciation continue to operate. A research group led by Peter and Rosemary Grant of Princeton University has shown that a single year of drought on the islands can drive evolutionary changes in the finches. Drought diminishes supplies of easily cracked nuts but permits the survival of plants that produce larger, tougher nuts. Droughts thus favor birds with strong, wide beaks that can break these tougher seeds, producing populations of birds with these traits. The Grants have estimated that if droughts occur about once every 10 years on the islands, a new species of finch might arise in only about 200 years.

The historical nature of macroevolutionary study involves inference from fossils and DNA rather than direct observation. Yet in the historical sciences (which include astronomy, geology and archaeology, as well as evolutionary biology), hypotheses can still be tested by checking whether they accord with physical evidence and whether they lead to verifiable predictions about future discoveries. For instance, evolution implies that between the earliest known ancestors of humans (roughly five million years old) and the appearance of anatomically modern humans (about 200,000 years ago), one should find a succession of hominin creatures with features progressively less apelike and more modern, which is indeed what the fossil record shows. But one should not—and does not—find modern human fossils embedded in strata from the Jurassic period (65 million years ago). Evolutionary biology routinely makes predictions far more refined and precise than this, and researchers test them constantly.

Evolution could be disproved in other ways, too. If we could document the spontaneous generation of just one complex life-form from inanimate matter, then at least a few creatures seen in the fossil record might have originated this way. If superintelligent aliens appeared and claimed credit for creating life on Earth (or even particular species), the purely evolutionary explanation would be cast in doubt. But no one has yet produced such evidence.

The evolutionary, structural, and biochemical information implicates segment 85-119 as of special functional significance. The physicochemical properties and finer structural details of its conserved residues now point to a more specific function for this segment. Fourteen of its 15 conserved positions are fixed for charged and strongly hydrophobic residues (Figure 3). This mix of charged and hydrophobic residues, with their outwardly projecting side chains, predicts a second binding site for Leptin-protein interactions, which is separate from that for its receptor (Figure 2Benner and Gerloff 1991). At least some of the six positions with NS substitutions in the stem hominoid, which are directly or indirectly related to segment 85-119, may then contribute new hydrophobic, charged, and smaller residues that may alter the secondary structure and specific binding properties of this second interaction site. For example, the conserved G118 of hominoids permits a more pronounced turn at the N terminus of this segment relative to that predicted for L118 of the other mammals. In these ways, segment 85-119 may underlie the functional differences between human and other nonhominoid Leptins (e.g., why this hormone is central to energy expenditure in mice, but apparently not in us; Mantzoros 1999Hofbauer and Huppertz 2002).

Even though you do have the Burden of Proof, I'll leave you with just a couple examples of some evidence.
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15$ minimum wage
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@drlebronski
I don't debate anymore - not enough time. 

Today my schedule's been really open. I take a lot of summer college classes, so, yeah - way to busy most days. 
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Evolution-ation
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@Yassine
Evolution is a framework using the most recent evidence to explain the development of organisms on Earth. The most verified, most accurate, and theory which has best predicted outcomes for decades - is Evolution. Those who typically reject Evolution are classified, scientifically speaking, as science deniers. 
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Social Democracy or socialism
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@TheUnderdog
So you think that because you can't pay for a degree you neccessarily don't deserve it? Are you an idiot?? Seriously what the hell is it that your spewing? There are poor people, a lot of 'em, and not all of them get scholarships. Furthermore, what?? There are thousands of families in the US who have two working parents that can't afford health insurance and can't afford surgeries because they don't make enough - you empirically speaking - don't know what your talking about. 

Also... what the heck? No - I don't care if reach people want to be rich - that's like saying: You shouldn't pay murderers, thats just human nature and you should respect that. You realize how unsound your arguments are right??
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15$ minimum wage
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@Discipulus_Didicit
So your evidence is your, uncertified, experience - regarding certain experiences. I want empirical evidence bud. 
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Is capitalism exploitative
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@drlebronski
by near definition yes
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Social Democracy or socialism
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@drlebronski
I don't think there are really any socialists here to argue with - personally progressive - socially democratic - so yeah - haven't seen any bonafide socialist here, at least not ones that talk about it regularly. 
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Social Democracy or socialism
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@TheUnderdog
A social democrat is someone who wants to establish certain social and economic rights though typically to keep capitalism as a framework for economics - typically through redistribution of wealth 

Socialism is an economic framework which says that the means, distribution, and exchange of production should be owned by the community as a whole. 
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15$ minimum wage
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@TheUnderdog

Wealth is primarily built through home value and inheritance - typically called generational wealth
Wealth is obtained through the stock market primarily, at least for me.  Very little wealth is built through inheritance out of the millions one earns in their lifetime and I don't get to collect my inheritance until both of my parents die, which by the time that happens, I would be in my 50s and my career would be pretty established.
Cool - you are factually incorrect - you have not studied this nor even investigated the link I sent. Most Americans and American families generate wealth via home value and inheritance. Also... wrong - most do get their inheritance, we're talking about net-worth, and that net-worth increases regardless of your parents living or dying, regardless - we're also talking about generational wealth - so yes - their parents have died. 


So then, today, those people do less well in school because of generational poverty, then able to get less well-paying jobs - so you know - for the people who actually need those jobs need to be paid the minimum wage.
Your assuming a significant portion of minorities work minimum wage jobs.  Only 1.6 million workers work minimum wage jobs and the majority are either in highschool or in college (Characteristics of minimum wage workers, 2019 : BLS Reports: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics) so they don't need the money as much as someone who is done with school.  There are about 100 million minorities in the US.  If every single adult working a minimum wage job was a minority (this isn't the case), then around 1% of minorities work minimum wage jobs.  Since that's not the case, the proportion of minorities that work minimum wage jobs is even less.
No.... what? You need MORE MONEY when you are in college, do you have any idea what you're talking about?? I forget you don't know what your talking about a lot - so there are about 1.6 million workers working at or below the minnimum wage - for the entire nation, yes relatively, small - considering that there are over 300 million fucking people in the United States? Even small percentages are HUGE numbers - 1,600,000 is a large number. For every 295 white citizens, 1 is working minnimum wage, whereas for every 185 black people, 1 person is working minimum wage - or about 40% more. 

To give you another measuement, there are 6 times more white people in America than Black people give or take, where as the disparity in Minnimum wage jobs is only 4 times - that means black people are overrepresented - and that number only grew in Covid times. After the recession of 2008, we've been slowly been decreasing the amount of people working min wage, but that number jumped again. For this mean people, generationally, to be making this little is a problem, whether you like it or not. You are looking at things in an extremely naive way, one that ignores the massive numbers of people in the US. 

 You also ignore what the living wage actually is in the, around 40,000 a year, much less than minnimum wage. 


Regardless, the principle that the lowest we can pay is so low beneath the living wage is disgusting and a country that supposedly cares for it's people should be ashamed for ever considering having a 7.50 minimum wage. 
You didn't address my alternative to the minimum wage, which was any person perminately out of college that works a minimum wage job gets hooked up to a better paying job that isn't tied to a government mandated salary, which both gets the government out of the situation and allows the worker to earn a higher salary by doing more valuable work.
That couldn't happen - and it wouldn't happen - you essentially are trying to get thousands and millions of corporations to higher millions of people - after they don't need it as much - instead of just increasing the wage that they have to pay people? What the fuck? At that instance just get rid of all the jobs that are minnimum wage! Oh wait, you can't do that, most minimum wage are actually essential! No - you see - the less stupid alternative is just to increase the wage they make. You legitmately have no idea what you're talking about. 
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Atheist's come forth
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@EtrnlVw
That's all mythery - Jesus says it in John= the only way to get into heaven is by accepting him and asking for forgiveness - no where in the bible does it say bad people who accept him will go through suffering - it simply says that Jesus will forgive ALL SINS. You have no idea what you're talking about, and none of these passages have convinced me that you do. 
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15$ minimum wage
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Do you have evidence for all of those claims? Are you considering that wealth and education isn't equal depending on demographics? Are you considering that their is job discrimination even regardless of those education and wealth issues by the job market for certain demographics? Have you considered a single variable? 
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15$ minimum wage
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@TheUnderdog
For minorities are heavily discriminated against in the job market that isn't quite so easy, let's use black people specifically shall we? Wealth is primarily built through home value and inheritance - typically called generational wealth. You see, when families has less generational wealth, the neighborhoods they live in are inherently worth less, and the schools they have in those neighborhoods to be less effective at educating. So when during the 30s, 40s, and 50s, subsidizing, and redlining occurred that would allow white people to have cheap ways to increase wealth by buying homes in specific areas - not allowing black people too. To the degree - that white people paid less to buy, then black people did to rent for much less valuable homes. 

So then, today, those people do less well in school because of generational poverty, then able to get less well-paying jobs - so you know - for the people who actually need those jobs need to be paid the minimum wage.  Regardless, the principle that the lowest we can pay is so low beneath the living wage is disgusting and a country that supposedly cares for it's people should be ashamed for ever considering having a 7.50 minimum wage. 
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@Timid8967
How many of you have come from a religious background? And what was this background? And what convinced you to become an atheist? 
Yup, christian, specifically protestant-baptists. What thing? There wasn't a single thing that convinced me, it was a lot of stuff, but the thing that started me on the path of becoming one? Probably rapists that seriously repenting get to go to heaven - it always disturbed me that a simple sincere apology and acceptance of jesus was enough to get to heaven, and good people who don't believe would go to heaven. It made no since, an infinite god who legitmately cared for their "children" would not let their child go into the metaphorical highway because they "choose" to. 

Was it a journey or an epiphany? Did it cause problems with your family or partner at the time? 
A journey for sure, and yes, my parents hired a priest and exorcist to exorcise the demon that was obviously possessing me. 


And are you still connected somehow with the people from your old religious affiliation? 
My parents, and a good bit of my friends, yup. 
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Democrat Party
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@sadolite
their supposed to represent the "left", this is what the right thinks at least, in reality - they are depressingly slow moving and happy with the status quo. In most countries, Biden would be considered a decent republican, unfortunately I'm a progressive - so 9 times out of 10, the democratic party doesn't represent me, but the two party system has been fixed, so I'm pretty screwed till' we can get that worked out. 
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Is the confederate flag racist?
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@drlebronski
As it was a symbol used by those who fought war for the sake of owning slaves, that thought widespread death was worth the institution of slavery - yes - yes I'd say the symbol is racist. Similar to how the Swastika is anti-semitic by nature of it's use. 

Yes a flag is a piece of fabric with different colors and symbols, but as humans we assign meanings to those symbols, meanings that do truly carry values and principles. The confederate flag is a symbol of choice- of choosing a dehumanizing, oppressive, wretched institution over saving millions of lives. 

In other words, yes. 
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Can someone tell me why rationalmadman blocked me
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@drlebronski
He does this - its his thing - he acts toxic when you call him out or continue to disagree with him - then he blocks you
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I'm going on Hiatus
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@coal
Its barely been a month... lmao
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gay and trans people deserve rights
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@Athias
Does this really strike you as my sort of argumentation?
First of all i would like to say something the estimate that historians agree on is 5.4 to 6 million deaths. do not try and say that my debate title said 6mil and didnt specify. anyways, when the nazis were about to lose the war they tried covering up as much evidence as they could-----https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/combating-holocaust-denial-evidence-of-the-holocaust-presented-at-nuremberg,  https://www.history.com/news/how-the-nazis-tried-to-cover-up-their-crimes-at-auschwitz
here is a good article on how historians and researchers estimate how many people died in the holocaust. https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/documenting-numbers-of-victims-of-the-holocaust-and-nazi-persecution
Are our word patterns similar? Do we have a similar syntax? Do we actually have similar ideas or do you see "socialism, atheist, and trans rights" and you go "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE - it's my enemy!!"
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gay and trans people deserve rights
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@Athias
@drlebronski
He thinks you're my alt. 

To Athias-  please demonstrate your assertion bud. 
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gay and trans people deserve rights
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@Athias
dude.... I'm legitmately offended you would think that I'm him. Multiple people are allowed to talk about the same topic?
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Absolutely NO ideas for debates, anyone got any ideas they want to do?
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@Bones
Mm, I don't know if I quite agree 'bout that. Tho I can see why you'd think that. 
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Absolutely NO ideas for debates, anyone got any ideas they want to do?
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@DeadFire27
You could debate Anthony Joshua versus Tyson WIlder - an upcoming boxing match
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