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@Swagnarok
That's insightful. I have heard this before but I could have sworn it was plato. I must be misremembering or maybe plato inspired this guy.
I was thinking that the West is successful not because of democracy but because we are just superior in values perhaps. Maybe in some other way, because you have colonialism which seems to have really given 3rd world countries really high standards of living at least until the colonialists were kicked out and then the 3rd world countries reverts back to being just a terrible place to live.
The reason I don't want to say it's genetic is because Russians look pretty white like other Western countries but have a terrible quality of life. Maybe there is something unique about Slavic people that make them inherently inferior though at least in a way that interacts with culture.
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@bronskibeat
The results of the 2020 election were odd. In most elections you have the results by midnight and this it didn't happen so it's natural to ask for some transparency there but no, nobody was actually trying to overturn an election.
You might not see the left writing about overturning democracy but they are actually active doing it, for example nobody wrote a book in Romania saying to overturn that election, the left just took action and erased Democracy there. Nobody wrote a book telling Zelensky to extend the war so he wouldn't have to run for reelection, he just did it. so you are correct, the left is not writing books about how to overturn elections, they're taking action.
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It seems to me Democracy is bad at protecting freedom. Two types of freedom are important, that's autocracy and freedom of speech. We see a decline in both but freedom of speech is easier to point at with people in England and other countries literally being arrested for posting memes or denying the holocaust.
The one assumption you want to make when it comes to rights in a democracy is that eventually somebody you dislike will hold power and you don't want to trust them to regulate speech among other things, not to mention how disgusting it is to limit freedoms (In terms of free movement, free speech etc.) This is why it's important to protect these rights and why it was wrong for the government to use any soft power to limit the press or social media at all. Though if the press refuses to make any attempt at being free from bias and hold a monopoly on what media some people consume than it may be fair to use some force to get them to be unbiased. One step is to ban any attempts to narrative build, they should limit themselves to relaying facts. The way the facts should be relayed is also important but I don't want to get this discussion too much in the weeds.
Anyway Growing up, every political candidate I have seen in my lifetime up until Trump has been from the establishment uniparty. Even then, I am thinking that Democracy is still the way to go. I know they have their hands in all the levers of power but if they do get there through their manipulation of the media and other conniving it's fair. I assume they respect Democracy and so when it's time to go then they will peacefully leave. I never imagined I would ever have to see them make that decision but I trusted it.
They have been given that option in several places and they use all of their tentacles to essentially cheat. Many populist leaders who do challenge the liberal elite of the main parties have gained power and in return they are either blocked from actually exercising that power, for example Trump's first term where he was handcuffed and blocked even from making moves that the majority of democrats agreed with . He was blocked by establishment shills from both parties.
Other leaders have been thrown off the ballot, we have seen many arrested like Bolsanaro and the Philipino president, Duterte. Zelensky attempted to have his political rival arrested prior to the war. It's clear the establsihment doesn't care for Democracy. It is clear that they in fact don't even care about freedom, So why exactly should the populist right who has been labeled Nazis, despite being forced to withstand Nazi like tactics used on them for example limits on their freedom of speech and being imprisoned for having the audacity to be the voice of the people,. I ask why should they not just start canceling democracy and staying in power?
The right has proven it's ability to preserve freedom better, to lower crime so the elderly are safe to walk the streets at night, they have also shown an ability to love their native population as opposed to trying to replace them with foreign labor for cheaper driving down their wages, raising home prices and increasing crime.
With their record of making life so much better for everybody and with the uniparty's history of holding onto every tentacle of power in unfair and insidious ways, wouldn't the best protection for your freedom, your safety and your wallet be to support and encourage right wing leaders to destroy democracy?
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President duterte has been arrested by liberals https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/10/world/asia/icc-philippines-rodrigo-duterte.html
The president was famous for making formerly dangerous cities safe to walk in again by cracking down on the drug problem.
He is being arrested because the left is saying it's a human rights violation to crack down on crime and make communities safe.
There is an issue of a lot of police shootings but what you have to remember when looking at those statististics is context. In the Philippines the drug dealers are shooting at cops through the door the second they start knocking essentially so there just is a lot more self defense situations.
When the country was in liberal hands the streets were unsafe and people were suffering and this guy literally made life good for the average person.
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@bronskibeat
To be fair, it would seem that the actual calls to end democracy are coming from the right: Peter Thiel, Curtis Yarvin, Balaji Srinivasan, Marc Andreessen, etc. All liberal-hating Conservatives. So, at best, it's a bi-partisan issue.
At worst it seems like just talk from the right from unelected thought leaders who tend to have crazy ideals before they get filtered down to politicians anyway. By contrast the left is actually taking steps to end democracy when they disagree with results
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@Swagnarok
There have been talks to ban the AFD but yes they haven't pulled the trigger it's just the uniparty becoming masks off and saying they will work together.
This is good for the AFD actually assuming they aren't banned because usually the majority party blames the minority party for issues that occur but nobody will be able to blame the AFD for the uniparty continuing the bad policies that caused their rise to start with, so this could end up with bigger gains for the AFD
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@Sidewalker
Putin didn't follow his game plan, first you have to stack the Supreme Court, and then you can install a puppet President.
Don't worry, when he loses a foreign election, he usually has his minions attempt an insurrection.
So is it okay to ban popular political candidates from running against you?
If this is the case we should upport Trump canceling elections because zero candidates ever go without some foreign propaganda to support them. For example in 2016 Ukraine ran an influence campaign on favor of Clinton and Russia for Trump. So I guess we just ban both candidates?
You would think that would make it Ralph nadar vs whoever the hell libertarians run but they probably will pick up foreign influence campaigns as well so then where do we go?
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In Romania the political establishment has just banned a candidate from running because they don't like his policies.
Călin Georgescu was leading in the polls and favored to win the election but just how establishment candidates collectively decided to fuck over the German AFD party as an attempt to overthrow democracy, they now take it a step further and just outright ban a political opponent.
Maybe it's for his own good. Liberals are now arresting people who they disagree with should they win the very next election, whether that's the recent arrest of the Philippino president or Trump or Bolsonaro. Zelensky also attempt to have his political opponents arrested after he won.
The real threat to democracy is from the left.
Conservatives need to look at this and the efforts of leftists to end free speech and realize they will never be allowed to win if they play within the rules and that if the right wins, given these events than free helicopter rides are completely justified
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I didn't think the lynch was heading towards me TBH there was theories that pie was scum and also that it was scum vs scum between him and Owen so I don't know that it makes sense for me to drive that lynch.
If Casey misunderstood where the majority was leaning that is cool, I may also be misunderstanding but my thoughts were that the majority was on my side here
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I actually wasn't sure which way the rest of town was voting so I voted for Luna. Who by the way also is cool with being the lynch
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Just out of curiousity
<script> window.alert("hello everyone"); </script>
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Technically since scum can create a bunch of mislynches easy than perhaps we should vote on our picks even if it means some of us have to make votes we perceive to be bad so we can vote in unison
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Yes I said Casey's pie vote was opportunistic despite being the main driver of Pies lynch. He did self vote and the godfather theory is legit and technically he could have tied the vote to save Owen and to block whiteflame from using his ability.
Also to the question Vader tagged me in. I went to sleep and forgot everything I posted yesterday so don't know what it's in response to
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1. - Savant
2. WF
3. Wylted
4. - Bullish
2. WF
3. Wylted
4. - Bullish
I am not sure if you vote to eliminate or stay but if it's to stay this is the people I would keep since people asked
I haven't seen or noticed much from earth
Owen seems better than chance to be scum.
I know I am town though honestly I would prefer to see myself go since then I can just vote without giving justifications or much effort
Also I would keep bullish because Casey's pie vote seemed opportunistic but I reserve the right to change that last matchup because I also like what Casey says about me
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@Lunatic
How?! What am I missing!?
My understanding and admittedly I am confused is that we still have to vote after we die
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@Vader
The first one voted on should be Owen vs literally anybody else bro
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@Bullish
How tf do we explain Pie's action then? Any chance he was scum godfather, and he saw your role and was like "my role literally only works when I'm dead" so he suicided himself?
I guess you have a point here
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@Bullish
I don't care if 75% of town revealed their roles at some point we have to take a stand and say that mass claims are bad. I only like mass claims when I am a vanilla.
Plus we still have pie's vote and we 100% know he is town. Somebody said they can reveal where votes went so the use of that ability also gives us pie's reads.
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I am thinking Owen is scum as well. Pie is town though I used my ability on him.
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Do not invest in bonds. That's for people trying to preserve wealth. If you do invest in bonds than stuck with municipal bonds that are suspiciously high yielding. I am talking like 8% or better
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@Vader
Here is real advice.
Save 20% of your paycheck. Not in a savings account but in investments. If you don't feel like doing the work of investing than finding a fund with extremely low fees. Fees will hurt you more than the fund managers incompetence ever could.
Save 20% of your paycheck. Not in a savings account but in investments. If you don't feel like doing the work of investing than finding a fund with extremely low fees. Fees will hurt you more than the fund managers incompetence ever could.
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@fauxlaw
, "Be yourself; everyone else is taken."
This type of advice is why so many pieces of shit exist.
A lot of people just be themselves and end up serial killers, rapists or worse of all virgins.
I would urge people to be me or better yet be the best version of me you can pull off.
Stay hard
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@Greyparrot
I think most black people oppose DEI. They still mostly vote liberal because they aren't completely out of the brainwashing yet but no ghetto motherfucker is going to give a shit about that protest and neither will black Republicans and neither will at least 50% of politically active black adults. So this means shit won't happen. Remember when white women protested target for promoting tranny stuff to kids? It won't happen with DEI because nobody wants handouts not even people that need them. They want a fair shot and that's it
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As far as the other advice that flirting with a barista is sexual harassment, I think this is social media blowing stuff out of proportion. If you suck at taking social cues than being very cautious but women are okay with you flirting with them and you can tell because they flirt back. If they aren't flirting back normally than yes there is something wrong with you that needs addressed. Maybe what you wear, maybe your physical build or awkwardness but if women are not flirting back when you flirt than there is something wrong with you and remember women are significantly better at judging character at first glance than men, so figure it out
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@Swagnarok
nor contexts that are appropriate for flirting. If in high school you asked out the girl who you shared one class and had interacted twice with, then whatever. Sometimes it'd work out, sometimes it wouldn't. Either way the stakes are low. But if you do the same to a woman on the streets, or to the regular barista at your coffee shop, then that's sexual harassment. Now, I'm assuming you already knew this much, but I say it to drive home the point. There are dating apps, but those are dumpster fires and internet horror stories of the dating app experience, especially for men, abound.
With all due respect you always want to flirt with females who have authority over you, especially if they are ugly. You will be punished for not doing so and you'll wonder why people are promoted around you. You never want to take it past flirting but if your boss is female, not particularly attractive and in charge of your career than you are making a mistake by not flirting.
They want to feel desirable even if they aren't attracted to you, they want their ego stroked. I am older than you and this is from experience.
Now if the woman is hot and constantly flattered already this advice may not apply but a good 50% of the time they also want their ego stroked so take it on a case by case basis and remember to only stroke their ego by flirting. If you stroke it by working hard or picking up extra hours, they will not respect you and you'll be a doormat and the flirted will be interpreted as creepy.
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Congrats. I hope you enjoy dealing with the Chinese for the rest of your career. I hear they our great business partners. Also since some are speculating that they will surpass America by building electric cars that randomly explode and inferior AI models than you will be positioned well to work with the next empire.
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@whiteflame
I got you
2nd debate free will is an illusion
https://www.debateart.com/debates/5507-free-will-is-an-illusion?open_tab=votes&votes_page=1&vote_number=3
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Debate 1
Is cereal a soup
https://www.debateart.com/debates/5906-should-cereal-be-considered-a-soup
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3rd misc. Nomination
Watch me denate by mall
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12233-listen-to-me-debate-live
Mall takes the time to extend the community beyond just the walls of this website so it is more resilient and everyone else should be doing some occasional YouTube videos or blog posts and expanding the sites footprint as well. Not merely to attract people here but so we aren't reliant on here because the real here is each other.
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2nd MISc. Nomination
Bestiality by ADOl
He heroically defends a controversial belief system and maintains the appropriate attitude even in the face of personal attacks.
We need to invite more people like this on the site so we can continually challenge our own sacred cows and grow
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Thread 1
A belated defense of United healthcare
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12217-a-belated-defense-of-unitedhealthcare
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3rd vote
Swagnarok
He doesn't post much but when he does he is very logical and thorough and does real well at always being intellectually honest. Every person here should study his behavior and try to emulate it
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@Sidewalker
He literally also is making manufactured homes now
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Sure being off topic (aka put of line) would make somebody not in line with town. Obviously
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Even if he's town it is really retarded to create a mass claim, bitch that the game does not confirm flips and then virtually assure that the only person who can reveal flips dies NP1
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@ILikePie5
You’re just filibustering lmao. I never said I wouldn’t claim. I just did. Do you want to explain how topicality is a forensic investigator?
I am shocked. You do know that traditionally the one who suggests a mass claim goes first right? Not trying to claim near the end of the DP they don't wanna claim until a player who normally is not on at that time claims.
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So pie suggests the mass claim and then demands I do it first assuming I would be offline the remainder of the DP and he could weasel out of it. Anyone still online needs to vote him
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@Mharman
perhaps they want to expand their customer base. I’ve noticed a lot of companies are bending the knee to Trump on a few things (Facebook being another recent example) and I’m willing to bet it has something to do with Trump winning the popular vote for the first time. I don’t recall any large companies doing stuff like this in 2016.
My first thoughts were that companies were pushing DEI and similar policies because they are stupid. I didn't want to think they were evil and just wanted the world to burn only that they thought they were doing the right thing and willing to see their profits go up in smoke.
Seeing them bend the knee just makes me think they never believed that shit to start with and were just being evil and willing to let the world burn to submit to what they thought was the will of the majority
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You build a rocket that can do better please. Show him how it's done.
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@Vader
@Savant
Please vote for pie or at the very least remove your votes
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@Earth
Just vote him. His reasoning for a mass claim was stupid and he failed to claim first as most people that suggest a mass claim would and obviously I am going to be the first NK and so he killed our only chance to reveal flips
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@ILikePie5
Also what’s the purpose of a theme if we can’t analyze character flips.
Here is the thing. My role means we could until you were foolish or sly enough to ask for mass claims.
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@Lunatic
@whiteflame
@Casey_Risk
We have an hour left and pie has refused to claim until it was safe to fake claim despite the one suggesting a mass claim which traditionally means you are also the first to claim under these circumstances. Since you guys are online please vote to eliminate him
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I will reveal first because he is likely to avoid the DP now but this whole mass revealing thing is quite obviously bad for town and it was a stupid move. I can basically cop dead players to reveal if they are town or scum giving us a way to reveal flips. Now let's eliminate the only unclaimed player
Unvote VTL Pie
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This is pies suggestion to mass claim. He should show some good will and do it first. When I suggested a weaker form of this by asking everyone to say the power level of their role I went first. I said I felt like my role was quite powerful.
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@Bullish
@Casey_Risk
@Owen_T
Casey you have a useless role do you want to volunteer for death
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@Owen_T
Barney is not playing.
Also get your shit together
Unvote VTL casey
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@Savant
Do you think we'll do worse than random chance? If so we should just pick a random target each time.
Technically we are supposed to do slightly worse than random chance. The point of the games invention was to illustrate how an informed minority (illuminati type org) could get the majority to work against their own interests. Roles do mitigate the effect a bit though.
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