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@whiteflame
Alright, this is frustrating me like crazy. Wylted, could you just ask Pie if you still have the Watcher role or not?
I do not. I don't know if one of the 3 or r people who visited me have a hidden mechanic or what. This is not a trick, you won't see me coming back with watcher results next dp or anything like that. The watcher role is gone.
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I used to have a watcher role so dr lebronsky does make town over powered.
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@RationalMadman
that is the scary thing about the coming technological singularity. It had the potential to bring great good, but what is the point of a more technological society that is a detriment to humans
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@Mesmer
What a waste of transhumanist tech that would be if we only served the "hedonistic imperative".
You actually didn't click on that website did you? They basically argue the same sorts of things you do, but call the philosophy "the hedonistic imperative ".
I've read some very detailed books promoting the ideology. These are smart people who espouse the philosophy, I just feel they are wrong. I'll get into it more later, maybe tomorrow.
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@Polyglot
Pie told me that I won’t be told if the person I redirected is roleblocked.
Your question was not if you would be told. WTF?
Obviously you won't be. I Tapout if I would be told
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@whiteflame
I get a feeling poly will just refuse to ask that question
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@Polyglot
We've all said enough. Let's try to figure out this puzzle with the available information. Particularly why did my action fail?
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We probably have a noob scum team, so bron evil makes sense.
Unvote
Unvote
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@Polyglot
the exact words were "your action failed"
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my action would not have said failed, just because I was redirected.
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@Polyglot
Why would you redirect me? What was your mindset, and since when has redirextor been a town role?
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@Polyglot
just out with it. What were your actions?
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Town is going to be in a terrible position next dp. What I propose makes it a slightly less terrible co diction. It's fine I have an alternative plan as well, that is more intuitively correct, but from a bayesian standpoint a worse though good position
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@whiteflame
You are simultaneously agreeing with the numbers perspective and also calling it bat shit insane. Do you just lack creativity?
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We'll talk about it in the endgame. The strategy is counter intuitive if we are both town, but good from a pure numbers standpoint
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@whiteflame
I can't lay out the numbers without giving everything away, but a lynch of me gives town a higher chance of winning.
A mislynch of evil and skipping NK
Puts us at
4-2
If what happens I think will happen, we are looking at the game ending with a no lynch in what everyone thought was Mylo
We I think are choosing lylo at 4-2 instead of lylo being at 3-2 if the other strategy pans out and a 4-2 lylo has more potential mislymches
If you are town, you should be able to see the logic of me being lynched leading to a more favorable lylo situation.
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@Lunatic
any theory as to why my action would fail when I targeted you?
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@whiteflame
My role has changed as well. I'm practically vanilla and you haven't run the numbers. What I am saying makes mathematical since at increasing the odds of a town win.
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Guys we can not afford for evil to be town. He was mislynched 4 times in a row. Let's just kill me and reanalalyze next dp
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Even if has is not scum, if he comes forward today, he should be lynched . The character is in the game though
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The optimal move for town is to lynch me, unless it is 100% certain who the remaining scum is. The other option is to no lynch based on what I know.
Here are the options that are okay.
1. Lynch scum but only if 100% certai. They are scum
2. Lynch me
3. No lynch
A lynch of town puts us at possible LYLo. I'll explain later if forced.
A lynch of me, will also put us at lylo, but with a better chance at catching scum.
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@whiteflame
it doesn't matter who I sus. I will confirm that a character named
Haos Saurus is in the game. It isn't my character and the person is likely scum.
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I told you to lynch me. That should be good enough.
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@drlebronski
How the hell would you know if your ability has a hidden mechanic?
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I was a watcher and watched lunatic. My role failed. Not only did I fail, but my role changed In The middle of the night after being visited by drlebronsky.
I think the scum team is lebronsky and lunatic, let's kill me and take the game to LYLO.
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@drlebronski
your role has a hidden mechanic or you lied. It's time to lynch me.
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@whiteflame
it's best to lynch me. Some weird shit happened i. The NP, and I think when somebody requests to be lynched, and self votes. Generally town should comply unless they have good reason to suspect some stupid jester mechanic
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@Evilgenius
vote me, and convince everyone else to do the same. We have a unique opportunity here given the skipped NP
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I believe the tactical move here is to lynch me, given that there is no NP.
VtL Wylted
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@oromagi
Does it not follow that if all human institutions are alike in imperfection, that Republicans have given up on all human institutions? This would certainly explain their public policy choices of the last twenty years.
I believe we should create perfect institutions.
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@n8nrgmi
According to the new rules, threads about atheism should take place in the philosophy section.
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The op is under the impression that mankind needs some sort of saving from it's very nature. The hidden premise is that mankind is affected in a negative way by the system. The system here is what I would refer to as Ted Kazynski did as The Industrial Society.
This conclusion of mankind comes from a type of thing that Sigma personalities will do. They feel like an alien in this world, and so they view society from an alien perspective. Mankind is looked down upon, because they are not a part of it, and since they see many problems in the world, they naturally feeling alien from their fellow man, will conclude they somehow are above man, and so they look at traits unique to human nature and call them bad.
It doesn't help that their belief is supported by mainstream media and liberal elitists, who would disagree with these sigma types in almost every other respect. In fact they look down on these sigma personalities. Let's examine the parts of human nature that Mesmer finds particularly appalling.
Tribalism
"Tribalism (Generates conflict that wouldn't need to exist otherwise. Loyalty to a group and group dynamics should be replaced with doing what is most logical/best. The amount of effort and resources spent on dealing with tribalism I'd guess is astronomical and a massive burden on the human race. We might have needed it for our little tribes back in antiquity. We certainly don't need it with massive civilizations)"
Tribalism is seen as bad, because it hurts the system. I am going to dedicate another thread to exactly what I mean by the system, but let's just summarize for now as the current world order, that works to benefit itself and to maintain the power and autonomy of the people at the top, at not only our detriment, but to their own detriment as well.
The system is the matrix you heard about described by Morpheus in the movie The Matrix. It is not something you can taste touch or smell, but it surrounds you. It controls you, and you can only escape it by freeing your mind. Freeing your mind comes with it's own sets of problems as well. If you escape the matrix you still risk mind viruses that try to keep you from being free. That attempt to either pull you back in or enslave you in more insidious ways.
the 3 main mind viruses are Nihilism, egalitarianism and solipsism are the things that enslave you, even if you break free from the system. Fortunately mesmer will never be at risk of the second mind virus, but she is at risk of being hit by the other 2.
The truth is mesmer, that the world you live in is like a cloak put over you to shield you from the truth. It isn't that people are bad. Being a human is not wrong. Human qualities, certainly are not bad just because they are inconvenient to the system/matrix. To hate human qualities such as tribalism are harmful to the system and the system alone.
The fact is that tribalism is what helps us connect with others. To feel we belong, to feel safe and important. Numerous studies have shown that we just work better in small tribes of 75 people at maximum. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number
Notice how Mesmer also equates logical with best and insinuates it is illogical to be tribal. This is not the case though. In tribes like I said before we feel connected instead of isolated like sigmas such as Mesmer. We feel loved, and we feel important. It is easier to feel important to a group of 50 close people of a tribe than it is to feel important to 5 billion fellow Earthlings.
There is nothing wrong with being human Mesmer, Inherently human qualities are good. Tribalism is good. Instead of fighting your nature.........enjoy it. Fuck like it is going out of smile, eat great food, enjoy the best sites and sounds. As an anti-natalist, you should realize the corect solution is hedonism. Enjoy life. Enjoy life, by indulging in your nature.
Society as it is, is meant to hide you from your nature, that is why people are anxious or depressed. We literally drug those people to make them feel better about being in a system they know is wrong. We have men cutting off their dicks even . These trannies do it, because they feel something is wrong and can't put their finger on it, so decide it is themselves. Trannies are not wrong though, they are just in the wrong environment and cutting off their dick and balls are not going to solve it.
SEX
Sexual reproduction (A cumbersome experience that isn't yet optimized, and the methods in which partners are selected far are slowly becoming unnecessary due to the safety of our modern world and the fact that some aspects of mate selection are anti-civilizational. Could be made obsolete by objectively selecting best specimens independent of courtship and mate selection. Could also be made obsolete by dual-sexual humans/entities)
Anti-civilizational is the key word here. Mesmer, you are almost awake. Anti system is not automatically bad.
Sexual reproduction is not cumbersome. It's fun to fuck. It is fun to pursue the opposite sex or be pursued. The ego trip seducing a beautiful person gives you, feels really good.
You are mostly right here about the solutions transhumanism will bring though. We will be able to stop the dysgenics going on now. Mothers used to be encouraged to kill genetic freaks, now they are kept alive and even reproduce to the detriment to our species as a whole.
This will be prevented soon by voluntary checks for defects and gene manipulation, while still in the womb. Positive eugenics is a good thing, as long as the people creating policies to encourage this can avoid absolutely correct accusations of practicing eugenics.
So far liberals have put planned parenthoods and abortion clinics in black neighborhoods and killed 50% of blacks prior to birth, a plan formulated by open eugenicist Margaret Sanger, and they have successfully eluded any legitimate criticism of being proponents of eugenics. This is despite the fact, they have no defense of it, as the results of these practices, speak for themselves.
- Literal consumption (Modifying humans to not require food or water would clearly be of benefit. Perhaps transhumans/posthumans could generate energy through solar power or wind power. Perhaps something yet to be invented could be our source of energy, too)
To What ends? The experience of eating, if not done in a way where you mindlessly lose control, is very good. Just imagine eating a delicious gourmet cheesecake, and sipping a glass of red wine. It's a very good experience. Consumption is not bad, in fact it is quite good.
- Metaphysical consumption (Humans dislike both discomfort (for obvious reasons) and comfort (generates boredom). Humans aren't designed to be satisfied with anything, and thus this creates a hedonistic treadmill that never satisfies humans. This becomes a problem when humans realize that their chasing will be endless and that there is no difference in death between chasing and not chasing. Add to that the concept of 'achievement' which is created first by the human mind creating problems (they build broken chairs to fix), and often the 'achievement' doesn't generate anything of real value (i.e. kicking a ball into a net doesn't make you less thirsty -- any derived benefit from kicking the ball into the net could be garnered somewhere else; the universe doesn't need you to kick the ball into the net). Rewiring the human brain in various ways could lessen or resolve these problems).
This is a major problem in modern society and one that is being medicated by psychiatrists, trying to hard code the brain with psychotherapy in combination with prescribed drugs. Maybe, like in the brave new world, we could prescribe everyone a happy pill that eliminates this, but it seems like something that would just work on the symptom, not the problem. The problem is the system.
Humans are happiest when they chase goals that are very hard to obtain. With pleasure just a mouse click away, it deprives us of this pleasure of the chase. You aren't explaining why chasing goals, endlessly is bad. You just expect us to accept that it is. We can see the quick dopamine hit of jerking off to porn harms us, the money handed to a prostitute for sex, doesn't satisfy us at all. What makes us happy is chasing what we want, and depriving ourselves of immediate and fleeting moments of joy.
When humans were tribal, there was no such thing as mental health issues. When your daily life is spent overcoming nature and barely surviving you are much happier. As an animal yourself, it is what you were meant to do. You are here today seeking a fight. Some part of you knows that a fight will make you feel alive. The stakes of these online fights aren't enough to make you happy though. It just hints at something that will make you happier.
What's unfortunate is that the seeking of security, probably stops you from having a fight with high enough stakes. You can have that fight though. Find a job that pays you for results and only results, become an entrepreneur, where every day is a fight to put food on the table or pay your mortgage. Anyone who plays sports for a living and other forms of competition can recreate that feeling. Do what works for you.
The human brain is fine. Become hedonistic. Everything that is not about you fighting for survival, should be about indulging your senses, love by being around the people you love, sexual pleasure by fucking like a porn star, taste by eating only the highest quality food. Exercise hard to get the feelings actual combat may give you.
Transhumanism should be used to meet the hedonistic imperative https://www.hedweb.com/ . However we should aim for the hedonistic imperative in a way that also doesn't merely just help make man more a part of the machine. Technology should serve us, not placate us so that way we can continue to be good slaves to the system.
A need for the Divine (Religion solves a lot of problems humans have, such as avoiding a singular, flawed human being responsible for the creation of rules for a society to follow, and instead seemingly makes the rule maker a Divine entity who cannot be questioned. Humans also have a pronounced fear of the unknown, and the Divine entity solves that problem, too -- there are many benefits to believing in the Divine entity (religion was a positive evolutionary adaption). Of course, more educated civilizations start to realize they haven't proven such a Divine entity exists (or even can't), and suddenly people start to stop believing in such a Divine entity. Making humans better (particularly neurologically) may avoid the necessity for a Divine being to be believed in, and thus the problems that come along with it).
Utter bullshit. You'll understand one day, but God is real. Religion may satisfy some things occasionally like filling in gaps of understanding, by assigning them to God. Sometimes those holes religion fill are bad or made worse by religion doing so, sometimes they are made better, but this is a completely different issue than the existence of a creator.
It's currently a royal pain to deal with humans. Rather than trying to endlessly change the world around us to suit human needs, why not start to change the needs humans have?
It's easier to be a sheep. It's also easy once you see the problems with the system, to merely exploit them to your own ends and live an incredible life doing so. It's one of the reasons why the system seems unbeatable. Those who awaken, often times feel it is easier to exploit the system than end it. It's a personal decision we all have to make, when we awaken. Fight the system or use our knowledge of it, to become wealthy, comfortable and loved. Easy doesn't mean better. I would prefer to make a system that benefits humans, than destroying and perverting humanity into some sort of clone of the " Brave new world" universe.
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@oromagi
very shocking that a member of the skull and bones society would throw shade at people threatening their rule over us.
The NWO knows their days are numbered. Their stranglehold on media has been shaken. Cryptocurrency is a democratic type of money that usurp the fiat currency they control and manipulate through the federal reserve and other similar institutions the world over.
The old order is dying and losing their wealth and power, while a new order that is altruistic and who resent power, emerges. One that believes in fairness, and meritocracy. One that will destroy illness and death and poverty, while having fun doing it.
The new billionaire class emerging will burn everything the illuminati through societies such as skull and bones, the Fabian society and the bilderburg have erected that only aim to give them more power and honor their wierd owl God they all secretly worship.
No, it doesn't surprise me at all that a skull and bones member would be scared. At this point he is just buying his time. The storm on the capital by patriots scared them, but the moves similarly made by youth during g the BLM riots to also take over other federal and state buildings also scared them.
The new order that will ironically displace the NWO, will probably let these guys live in exile, but if the masses who have been screwed are inpatient, their heads will be on pikes and honestly probably should be.
His job now is to unite with other illuminati like Biden and hope that they can work together to pacify the resistance by tricking them into believing that democracy is real and that no oligarchs or ruling class exist. That in fact social engineering is a myth that no company or powerful people would ever engage in, despite it's obvious easy profit to made by engaging in it.
The pikes are coming, and nobody on either side of the aisle aligned with the power brokers will be safe. I'll be so happy to help the nation rebuild into something that is actually beneficial to all of us, one free of injustice, poverty and corruption.
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@Lunatic
I don't have this patience. Dude sucks at mafia and is obviously scum. Let's just move on. I honestly feel bad for supa, he us scum I. Like 75% of games laately
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@drlebronski
I never pretended to be thirteen. One time I MADE an obvious chris Hanson joke. On The show "to catch a predator", people would pretend to be 13 and ask adults to bring condoms and beer, so they could prove intent.
I accused a user of being a pedophile that was merely pretending to be 13, and made an obvious chris Hanson joke, just after making the statement as a subtle insinuation they were a predator. Then the mod pretended like he wS autistic and simultaneously unfamiliar with the tropes from the most popular show on television
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Gut feeling is good enough. Read malcolm gladwell's blink
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@Greyparrot
@Polyglot
@drlebronski
Supa has been rubbing me the wrong way. Let's just close the deal.
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I still think we should lynch GP for the self vote
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also whiteflame is practically confirmed town. I am going to consider GP confirmed town and myself from my angle.
Unvote
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@whiteflame
my Wiscon is in the same pm not separate, but yeah poly is definitely town for that
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@drlebronski
the point is that coppa is about collecting data from 12 yesr olds to sell to 3rd parties or to use for your marketing. This site doesn't do that to anybody. So the law doesn't apply here unless you interpret the law like a retard would. Also the mods are being retards if they have interpreted the law that way. More importantly, they are retards for thinking that internet police are going to come to their doors and arrest them if a Russian debate site let's 12 year olds debate
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@Vader
Jesus Christ, I just looked at a summary of the law. You guys are idiots. It just says you can't collect certain information about 12 year olds. That information does not include opi ions on world events. Stop interpreting coppa like an idiot would. Half the old members the mods ran off are lawyers, just pm one about Coppa on Facebook to confirm what I am saying about you guys being idiots is correct
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@DeadFire27
It's obvious you are lying about being 12. Just admit you lied and are 15, and they shouldn't be prying into any personal details into a 15 year olds life to prove their age either.
There is no site rules about lying and saying you are 12, so just admit it and enjoy your stay
There is no site rules about lying and saying you are 12, so just admit it and enjoy your stay
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