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@rosends
This where I got it from. Do you see anything wrong with their argument. https://www.franciscanmedia.org/ask-a-franciscan/did-god-hate-esau
Also can you link me to where you found that definition
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@rosends
I will have to go over it again. I think the verse he referenced was in genesis.
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@ILikePie5
I strongly urge people to be wary of visiting Wylted if Whiteflame flips guilty. At most two people should be visiting him.
Why? Two people is a bad ideal. If one is scum and one is killed than they will just pretend they did not get the Innocent message. You are behaving like shit this game. It started when you had a town read on GP
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@ILikePie5
If Whiteflame flips scum and has the Frozen ability, then you’re 100% scum. All the protective roles should be on the Cop. Everyone else can visit whoever they want. Though if we have a Watcher I’d expect they Watch me tonight.
Very suspicious that you don't want to confirm a town member.
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@Lunatic
@Discipulus_Didicit
@airmax1227
What are your roles?
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Pie was frozen which is probably like poison. He will likely be dead if he is legitimately town.
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@ILikePie5
Wtf why? We literally need everyone visiting me. If whiteflame flips scum there is literally no reason not to. You can't argue I am some bullshit PGO role.
I don't need you pretending to cop me and get a guilty tomorrow. I want to be confirmed town, so we can finish this damn game.
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Fuck it, I am voting as well. I guess our hand is forced with 3 people voting already.
Everyone visit me tonight please just because scum will avoid doing so. Regardless of whiteflames flip a confirmed town in the game is useful
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@ILikePie5
And it’s your logic that says two claimed Doctors are both town. That’s just laughable.
Sui is basically a doctor so 3. Also 2 jolts with abilities that can protect.
Ya lynch a claimed and unCCed Cop. Bravo
I am pretty sure we are at Mylo and you are pushing a mislynch
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@Tradesecret
Can you demonstrate these doctrines of yours from the Bible or are they just your understanding of how things work?
The Bible doesn't mention hell. It mentions sheol. Sheol is a Hebrew word meaning underground. Like in the dirt. There is no biblical concept of hell and it has been just falsely assumed by Christians using extra biblical material.
As far as separateness from God, we have the Bible discussing a type of heaven or hinting at it. I can make a more detailed post later for a separate thread. I am messaging on the phone now and depending on memory. The mention of heaven for those who accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior also in other verses say that God has given us eternal life because of the sacrifice of Jesus.
The next part is more philosophical, but I think it is reasonable to assume. I will create a thread to go into more detail later. If we assume that God is good and we accept the verses in the Bible are true, and that I am interpreting them correctly, I think by extension we have to conclude that hell is a separation from God. We have some stuff that hints at something like this anyway, but you have to look at the original Greek of the new testament, where some stuff is lost in translation. Just like with the word sheol being translated to hell in many versions of the Bible.
So as you can see it's a mix of Bible based with extensions in logic about biblical hints and philosophical workings.
How and why would you say that? It is true God loves the world so much. Yet, what is the world in that passage referring to? Elsewhere we read that God loved Jacob but he hated Esau. Hence we know that God does hate some people. Why would it be difficult to imagine that the people in Hell are not the ones that God hated? Can you please find me some evidence that God loves those people in Hell.
God loves all men. The word in Hebrew from the passage with eseu is a Hebrew word meaning basically preferred. God preferred Jacob over eseu. You can confirm this yourself by looking up the original Hebrew word and reading what scholars say the meaning of the ancient Hebrew word is.
What is free will? And how can free will exist in a universe where God controls all things? And what does free will have to do with anything in this topic? If someone hurts themselves or loses a leg, are you suggesting that was part of God's plan or was completely outside of it?
Somebody losing a leg could be for a lot of reasons. Perhaps God will use that tragedy for good, but it doesn't mean it is in God's plan. If you have ever heard the objections to the problem of evil, they usually at least in part consist of explaining that God values free will. We can see biblical evidence God respects free will though. In the garden of eden, he gave humans the opportunity to disobey him. Something he did not have to do.
I brought up free will, because of the topic of hell. People are all pretty much condemned to death because of sin, but Jesus grants us eternal life through his sacrifice. So even non believers will live for eternity. God respects your free will to reject him, which is why you have a place to go, called hell. This hell is not the fire and brimstone you have heard about from deep south preachers though.
God does not control everything. He does know every possible future though, like Dr strange. It's up to you, to choose which possible future you will live. It's also luck and chance, because of other players in this game we call life, both natural and supernatural entities have some influence over this as we have found out in the book of Job.
What is it then? And what does the Bible mean when it describes Hell as a burning lake of fire in Revelation.
It doesn't describe hell that way. It describes casting the devil into a burning lake of fire, but that is not hell, and he is the only one cast into the lake of fire.
What do you mean separated from God? Isn't an Atheist separated from God on earth? Does that mean Atheists live in Hell already? Can you find for me any reference in the bible which talks about Hell as being separated from God?
Nobody can be fully separated. God is with atheists also, but in hell his presence is even less there, though not completely because of omnipresence. I'll see if I can explain the concept better later when I get to a computer.
Surely Jesus' point of teeth being gnashed has to do with torture? And surely you would agree that torture can take a form other than physical? There is such a thing as emotional or psychological torture? Wouldn't the fact that you know that you are separated from God be a form of torture? This is not to even enter the discussion of torment or burning fire.
If you find yourself in hell, and you are in pain because of this separation from God, I advise you to repent for your sins and accept Jesus christ as your lord and savior and join him in heaven. Jesus did not mean gnashing of teeth literally, but hell sucks. The hell is of your own making and you can get out, when you want to.
Again, where do you get this information? And if this is the case, why does God put preachers and evangelists on this planet in history? After all, if we just live like we want and then go to Hell and seeing the obvious we repent - that would be the best outcome, wouldn't?
That is a fair question. I owe you an explanation of my thought process and will start a thread so that way the atheists here can tell me I am stupid, while other Christians call me blasphemous. I am correct though and they are wrong.
An interesting question to add for you:Do you believe people are born with immortal souls? If so why?
I'm not sure.
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If there are multiple scum left it confirms multiple scum teams. Imo
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@ILikePie5
There are only two and one is better than the other. WF lynch > Earth lynch.
Bullshit, because now Sui CCed both. We now have seen 4 protective roles, mine prevented an NK on town most likely so 4 protective roles. So by your logic 4/5 of us are scum. That's dumb.
I find it terrible that you are asking that town roles be given away right now as well. We can full reveal at LYLO. This false dichotomy of earth whiteflame is dumb. Meanwhile Sui virtually also CCed earth and it was ignored. Once I am confirmed town tomorrow, I am going to lead your lynch.
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@ILikePie5
If you guys already placed your vote this is scummy asf. We have plenty of time, and it is highly likely we are at a Mylo thing, given the desperation moves the more scummy players have made. I think your vote count is a means to passively pressure everyone there is only one viable wagon.
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@Stephen
Mother Teresa is said to have had more faith than a mustard seed but her faith or her prayers didn't save a single suffering baby in those dying rooms of Calcutta. Maybe mustard seeds in Jesus's time were the size of mountains.
I'm not too familiar with what happened in Calcutta. I also can't know how much faith she had. I know we can read portions of her diary discussing.
Do you have enough faith to move a mountain, Wylted?
The mustard seed example can get pretty deep philosophically. I think above the level of most who gravitate towards the religion forum. Think Sartre, but some other existential philosophers as well.
Why would you assume the faith of a mustard seed, is a small amount of faith?
A mustard seed grows into what?
We are getting into new thought now. You believe something is already done and it is done. When a child grows into an adult, his body is responding to his faith he will grow. Do you have that much faith, you will grow a 3rd leg? If so, it will happen.
The mustard seed also has that faith. Just completely knowing it will grow. It does. Jesus credits the faith of those healed with healing them. He doesn't make it happen. He does take credit for some miracles, such as turning water into wine or walking on water, but he gives credit to his faith for those things, not some magical property.
So when you say.
But it obviously wasn't pointless to Jesus was it? Otherwise why bother curing these few blind and leprous individuals. He must have had a reason.
It doesn't make sense. Jesus did not cure those people. Their faith cured them. Jesus was merely a tool for them. When he brought Lazarus from the dead, he said Lazarus was merely sleeping, almost crediting the parents of Lazarus with having so much faith Jesus could raise him, that the past changed in order to accommodate their faith. Jesus did nothing.
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@sui_generis
It seems like most of us have some form of protective role. A 6 SCUM SCENARIO in an 11 player game, I would argue is balanced if we are dealing with 2 or even 3 scum teams. It seems perhaps if this is true, town got a bit lucky with only one dead town so far.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
My theory is that we have 6 scum total. Two teams of 3, and that one scum team has been completely eliminated, which also might explain the NK being on scum. I just wouldn't put it past mikal to have 6 scum in a game
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If I am right, we are at Mylo, and a lynch on whiteflame could make scum win, unless a protection role gets lucky tonight.
I think we test the 2 scum team theory by lynching who would make up a 2nd scum team. If we want to be careful here than at the very least we should no lynch and see what happens. I think the best move is lynching most likely between pie and earth, and second best is no lynching
I think we test the 2 scum team theory by lynching who would make up a 2nd scum team. If we want to be careful here than at the very least we should no lynch and see what happens. I think the best move is lynching most likely between pie and earth, and second best is no lynching
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I am starting to think we might by some wierd fluke be at Mylo. Let's imagine if whiteflame is innocent. EARTH'S CC makes no sense. He looked like the lynch prior to the CC, so what town motivation is there for CHINGY and giving up the doctor. All of our roles have odd titles, but Earth's role is just called "doctor". I also wonder why pie knowing his information was unreliable because of my results, still afterwords was looking for any excuse to still lynch whiteflame.
I feel like the double scum team theory is a real possibility and wouldn't be surprised if one scum team has zero people remaining, while one has 3 people remaining. It would explain why earth made the CC and pie seems desperate for this lynch. I think we should test my theory of a 2 scum team scenario by figuring out if we should lynch earth or pie.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I am definitely willing to vote him and acknowledge both things could be simultaneously true. The CC is not a compelling reason though, considering how odd Mikal is at creating games.
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@Stephen
It's pointless. I will explain why it's pointless in a bit. I think it's worth going over whether he healed anybody at all. I know you probably would say to yourself "obviously he didn't heal anybody, he is a fraud or fake". However, presuming that these miracles took place, Jesus credited people for their faith usually. Jesus really never took credit for these healing and instead flatly stated they were healed through their faith.
He has also said. "If one has the faith of a mustard seed, they can move mountains" . So these people healed themselves.
More to the point though. It's pointless to cure leprosy, and honestly we don't know whether God did cure leprosy. Nobody seems to suffer from it anymore. However if somebody is blind or diseased or handicapped, they at worst live with it for like 100 years, in those times it was like 35 years.
That is nothing compared with eternity. So what if somebody suffers for 30 years, when they have eternity . Why would God cure them? That suffering on a grand scale in their lifetime, is almost like 2 minutes of suffering
You also dismiss other explanations of things. God doesn't exactly have human morality. You are missing that, maybe he just doesn't give a shit. He doesn't care if you or I suffer and for how long.
Him not giving a shit, doesn't disprove his existence, just as good things happening doesn't prove his existence.
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@Tradesecret
They'll be healed when they die. In heaven it will be as if they still have legs. Why the fuck would God heal a paraplegic?It depends really doesn't? If they repent and turn to Jesus - they will receive a resurrection body. Otherwise - they won't.Yes, even amputees and paraplegics go to Hell.
You know God still loves you, even if you go to hell. Hell is not fire and brimstone. God believes in free will.. your death means that you will be merely separated from God, or as separated as is possible with an omnipresent entity. In hell, you will not be tortured. You'll get your arms and legs back. You'll also still have the opportunity to repent and be with God.
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With the character description airmax seems like another protective type role
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@Greyparrot
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I would side with the feminists. They are already clashing. The feminists realize that women are losing opportunities to men who now claim to be women, because of the incentive to become a woman and be privileged.
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@Lunar108
They'll be healed when they die. In heaven it will be as if they still have legs. Why the fuck would God heal a paraplegic?
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@RationalMadman
@ILikePie5
@Intelligence_06
I want you guys cooperation in ignoring every post from zedvictor please.
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@ILikePie5
Ok this makes more sense. Can you confirm that you chose Warren to be the Rook.
Warren was rook
Also can you confirm the NK is an “action” that can be redirected with the Castling
Confirmed.
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I'm pretty sure that we could probably get the lynch right, right now and end this game. I'd love to do it.
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Plus I worry if 2 visit and one is killed and the other is scum, the ability is wasted also. Ideally I get about 3 visits.
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@sui_generis
I asked mikal yesterday. Every single person who targets me tonight will get a town confirm message. I think everyone should do it. If only one does it and scum kills them, than it's a waste of an ability.
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I see what I did there. Yeah I guess me replacing words did not give the full meaning. It should say
Castling -(1x) Targets a given player to be assigned as your Rook and select another player. Any actions toward that other player will target the Rook instead.
I head to read what I wrote down to see why you were confused and see I used the word "of" instead of toward.
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@ILikePie5
Sending a PM right now. Will let you know when he gets back to me, if I am still awake
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@ILikePie5
Ya but it doesn’t say Rook’s actions will target the other player. For it to be a Bud Driver the opposite has to be true. With the way it’s written, it only works one way.
It only works one way. If somebody else targeted Warren, it would still happen to Warren, just with additional actions towards wf also
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@ILikePie5
What I posted was pretty close to a copy paste, but I asked Mikal for clarification and that's how he explained it to me. It basically redirects every single action directed at one chosen player to a second chosen player.
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I am going to sleep. Hopefully we figure this out in the morning
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@Lunatic
I know, and even the redirect does not clear whiteflame, but why would earth CC as scum? Why would mafia target whiteflame if he was mafia? It doesn't add up
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@Lunatic
So essentially if somebody NKed whitedlame it would go to Warren instead. I co sidered myself like a 1x doctor essentially with that role. It looks like I got lucky because the Nk targeted wf.
I considered using my other role so I could be confirmed town, but essentially only pie doubted me, so wanted to hold off. I will use that ability tonight, which should prove two things.
1. I am town
Which by extension should essentially prove whiteflames innocence and we can find the last scum easier. That is unless your theory is correct, which means there might be 2 more scum.
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@Lunatic
If wylted is telling the truth it also means that Mafia targeted whiteflame for the kill instead of warren.
This is why I am very uncomfortable with a whiteflame lynch right now
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@ILikePie5
That’s not what the description sounded to me. But either way, it still means my guilty on WF is true.
You basically copped Warren. Any action you used on whiteflame got used on Warren instead. If anybody else used an action on whiteflame, it got put on Warren instead.
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@Lunatic
Do you believe both doctor claims if you think whiteflame is town?
I don't think Earth would CC as scum, so yes. I think your theory of 2 scum teams makes sense as well. Perhaps one NK went through and the other did not.
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@Lunatic
I felt like it is the same thing as a doctor essentially. I had a good feeling about whiteflame and was null on Warren, so I swapped.
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Actually add airmax to that POE, I have no reason to town read him.
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@Lunatic
Sui, DD, wylted are in my POE at this time.
I have the same POE, but swam my name with yours. Who would you vote for between DD and Sui?
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I just don't feel comfortable lynching whiteflame with this information . The double cop claim made me suspicious, but now that Earth claimed it, I have a strong town read on her, and lunatics double scum team theory seems promising.
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Hopefully I swapped out enough words so I don't get modkilled for that.
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