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@oromagi
They were literally faking getting them it may have been for a photo op. However what we are discussing are the ethics of doing it, particularly when the purpose of the photo ops is to convince vaccine skeptics, vaccines are safe so we can reach herd immunity faster.
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@FLRW
When I was watching I thought he did. He got lucky. Not all survive the vaccine
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@3RU7AL
This is specifically "relevant to the topic at hand" because you seem to be suggesting that a "man" is doomed to a certain mindset and strategy and a "woman" is also doomed to a certain mindset and strategy, making both sides into veritable mono-dimensional cartoon characters
Incorrect. I have suggested that generally speaking women pick a specific mating strategy, and generally men do also. Nobody is doomed. Some people choose a different one, invent their own or switch back and forth between them.
Not sure where you think the word "general" means all. It merely means more often than not. A 51% adoption of a trait would make it a general trait
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I think he got the first shot in may and the second shot yesterday. I just pray that the vaccine does not kill more young people.
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@Ramshutu
I think I might be the same way.
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Oromagi, address what pue just said. If there is no fraud why did the convenient break in happen?
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@3RU7AL
Would you say your "will" is "free" from (overt) human coercion ?
Sometimes it is, sometimes it hasn't.
Would you say that "freedom" from environment + biology is impossible ?
To a certain extent. I can't immediately control the influence of PTSD on me, but I can resist it's pills. Freedom from biology is harder. If a schizophrenic has hallucinations or delusions, those are likely M outnof his control. That's just the most obvious example.
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@oromagi
This just happened. I saw he had been previously vaccinated and that he is young without any real problems, so I put two and two together.
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@Ramshutu
Garretdupre would have rolled over him
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I was wrong about it being snopes.
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@oromagi
It wasn't debunked LOL. They agreed with the skeptics who said it was faked. They used more agreeable terms though. Here you go https://www.indiatoday.in/fact-check/story/fact-check-officials-posing-for-covid-19-vaccine-is-not-what-it-looks-like-1761512-2021-01-21
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This is like a murderer claiming they are innocent, and that because you have no evidence, you should not go search for evidence.
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@oromagi
I want you to explain why an if there is no fraud, that they are trying to prevent audits. These audits are harmless if they are innocent
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@oromagi
Genetic fallacy. You are claiming because the facts are stated by a site ran by conservatives, the facts don't exist.
This would be like me claiming the holocaust is fake, because some rabbi said it was real.
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A football player dies on field just 24 hours after receiving the vaccine. https://www.wowktv.com/sports/the-latest-eriksen-collapses-during-euro-2020-match/
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Just in from 20 minutes ago. A european soccer player dies on field just 24 hours after getting vaccinated. https://www.wowktv.com/sports/the-latest-eriksen-collapses-during-euro-2020-match/
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@oromagi
Shouldn't the news provide a disclaimer that this is a photo shoot to encourage social conformity to getting the vaccine?
It seems that it is unethical to present a photoshoot as being factual.
Why not take photos of the actual vaccine shot? Snopes said these officials later that day claim to have gotten the shot after the photo shoot, but if they were really getting the shot anyway, and thought it safe, it makes no sense to do a staged photo shoot instead of a real one.
Besides that, this is just one of many such incidences.
Whether they got the shot or not, it is unethical to fake evidence for getting the shot, as opposed to doing it in front of the cameras and providing real evidence.
Do you not get how people on the fence about getting the shot, would be more comfortable seeing powerful people actually getting it done than seeing them stage photo ops and not show it.
It is far more convincing to vaccine skeptics who we need to become less skeptical, if these people actually had it done on camera instead of faking having it done and causing more skepticism.
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@3RU7AL
What exactly do you think your "will" is "free" from?
Absolute control of outside entities.
How can you "resist" influences-and-biology without an impulse to "resist" influences-and-biology?
By having the urge to do so, and deciding to do so. Not sure how that is relevant to the topic at hand though, which is that generally women pick partners based on different qualities than men and generally adopt different dating strategies. Are you going to either disprove my premise or offer an alternate one. Or is this just an exercise 9f how much you can annoy me, by incorrectly utilizing the socratic method?
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@dustryder
I just share news stories here. I try to stay put of analysis, but probably the fact that democrats are against audits. For example, some wanted machine databases preserved to audit, and some democrats opposed preserving them. No innocent person tries to destroy evidence.
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If covid 19 vaccines are safe, why do journalists, politicians and nurses keep faking getting them, while simultaneously telling people they are safe?
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@3RU7AL
Well, (IFF) your "will" (or as one might say, "strategy") is influenced by your environment and biology (THEN) your "will" is not "free"
LOL. Freewill implies that you can resist influences and biology. Are you trolling me? You aren't actually struggling to grasp what 7 year olds easily grasp are you?
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@sadolite
Public shame is the most effective tool at discouraging or encouraging any behavior.
That is actually why creating a welfare state was previously a good ideal. Shame meant that only people who actually needed welfare got it. Unfortunately now many people are incapable of feeling shame
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It looks like more and more people are raising the alarm about the election fraud in the 2020 election.
Big names complicit in the fraud are trying to stop audits of the vote, trying to stop an investigation or audit is as good as a confession in my book btw, honest people want to be investigated and cleared.
I doubt the election will be overturned, but the more and more time passes, the more evidence of fraud surfaced.
It looks like the capital hill ruoters may actually have in fact been heroes trying to preserve the integrity of the election.
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@Double_R
I was questioning whether you were being serious, thank you for making it clear.
You said that was the reason for the job offer. To gain influence. I didn't think you would disagree with that "joking" statement.
And I was just wishing your family well. Look, I said “shame”, shame is a bad thing so I couldn’t have meant it would have been good. That’s just a weird twisting of my words.
I don't understand why you keep harping on this. It is genuinely confusing. I thought you were actually wishing my family well. Foes it have a double meaning I am unaware of?
Nonsense, and the polls reflected this. Hillary’s problem was that she was untrustworthy. Learning that she was under an FBI investigation did not help.
They do this with pills all the time. They project Republican losses, like with Nixon and a Bush and Trump. There have been studies done to show if a person thinks their preferred candidate will lose, they are less likely to actually go out and vote. This is also why Brexit was predicted to lose. That is the only motive I can think of for the polls being wrong.
Had it been Bill under investigation, he would have won. He told Hillary to focus on the rust belt, while her campaign staff mocked him
Her being perceived as untrustworthy is not really going to affect anybody's vote. Go poll the site. Everyone is already voting straight Democrat up and down ballot or straight republican. Nobody changes their mind. The only thing that wins elections is getting people excited to get off their ass and vote.
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@Double_R
Ukraine didn’t hire Biden’s son, a private energy company in Ukraine did, and yes of course they wanted the influence they thought they could get out of him
That's pretty fucked up to accept a job for that reason. It should be based on merit. Not because you are promising them they can affect U.S. policy.
How dare Biden do that sort of quid pro quo.
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Brutal is suggesting the following
"You can't have freewill and also be influenced by your environment and biology. Derp"
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The article helped inform me of the precarious position Ukraine was in. Maybe that is why they hired Biden's son to start with. To make the United States feel compelled to help them with national defense. The least they can do to make up for bribing politicians by giving their children high paying cushy jobs, is do an open investigation into their own governments wrong doings.
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@Double_R
This is what I heard one prosecutor describe as a false exculpatory. Make your point clear, but use the right words so that if they are ever recorded you can use them to cast doubt on the jury.
The point wasn't clear to me. That means if this was an attempt at that sort of thing, it likely flew over the Ukrainian leader's head as well. They shouldn't be that subtle.
Is it just because he is a republican that you think his words mean, precisely the opposite of what he says? Like some sort of weird twisting of words?
When JFK said the only thing to fear is fear itself, was he secretly saying we should be fearful of everything?
If not, than how do you conclusively say what statements mean the opposite, of what is said?
If you can't determine the difference, is it decided by how much you agree with that persons policy positions?
If you are pro college football playoff and you have a person anti college football playoff, do you then say "well they disagree with me, so their statements are subject to the opposite day rule"?
Are you suggesting that if they didn’t state their intentions explicitly then it’s unreasonable to conclude said intentions?
Yes, if I tell you something, please listen to what I say, and don't think I am trying to hint at something. Especially if you think I am hinting at you doing something illegal.
You are also forgetting that Rudy didn’t actually ask for the investigation, he asked for an *announcement* of an investigation. There is no way to spin that. If the truth was the goal, the public wouldn’t need to know about it unless something was found. But we’re all know the political damage that would have been done if an investigation was announced. Just ask Hillary.
Hillary lost because she didn't take her husband's advice. Bill knows how to run a winning campaign, and we he made suggestions, they laughed at him "silly Bill, that worked in the 90s, but would not work now". Funny enough, he was telling her to focus on the rust belt, and direct most of her campaigning there. If it was Bill running, he would have won.
I don't think a single person changed their mind, merely because an bbn investigation was taking place. People vote based on which candidate most closely aligns with their ideology. I wouldn't change my vote, even if I found out the person I was voting for is a serial killer, most people feel the same way.
“Honest” is the false exculpatory. The word has no place in this sentence of this were an ethical request. Honesty in an investigation is presumed unless you have reason to believe it should not
He likely used it, because he didn't want any crooked politicians to ruin the investigation by trying to cook up evidence. We know from the OJ trial, that even if a person is guilty, once you fuck with the evidence, everyone will consider them innocent and not trust any evidence.
You have to use the word honest with Ukranians, so they don't go with their natural instincts to be dirty.
Reading that now link now. Not sure the "feelings" of Ukranians are evidence of anything other than how they felt about the facts, but maybe it will change my mind.
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@3RU7AL
Whether most women assume a different sexual marketplace strategy than men, has nothing to do with whether free will exists though. So really kinda a stupid question on your part
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@3RU7AL
Are you suggesting that you have no free-will?
That is precisely what I would suggest
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@zedvictor4
Of course the best way to end single motherhood.
Is an effective State contraception and abortion system.
Everyone agrees that murdering babies is the best way to end single motherhood. Some of us just find that murdering babies is a bad thing.
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@TheUnderdog
a court ruling that I don't agree with said that your ex wife gets the kids.
Actually the court ruled I did have primary custody. There really is nothing the court can do about somebody just taking off with the kids though, especially if they hide their location
Your telling me how you would like this to ideally work. It's not pragmatic. It will harm poor people, whether it was intended tomorrow not, and laws that are harmful are equally evil, no.matter if the intent is intentional or not.
I am not "pissing" on poor people; I am merely trying to hold the people who destroy other lives (like smash and dash parents) accountable
Poor men can't afford lawyers to defend them from.accusations of being deadbeats. This process would likely go around courts to be practical.
On top of that it is unethical even if it worked like intended, though it certainly would not.
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@n8nrgmi
we can extend the existing fence if need be. i'm looking for someone to argue that a wall is worth the extra expense over a fence. to my limited knowledge, a fence is adequate
You know fence is just a synonym for wall. Why does everyone take Trump so literal?
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I haven't seen all the evidence. I'm not even saying OP is wrong. It just doesn't seem that what he showed was unethical. Asking somebody to open up and announce an investigation. Especially if Rudy is saying he has evidence of wrong doing, is perfectly reasonable.
I don't really know anything outside of what OP shared about this, but my guess is it is Trump doing what he does, being imprecise with his words, and people that hate him, giving those words the least charitable interpretation possible.
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@TheUnderdog
I went through a bad break up with my kid's first mom. She ended up taking the kid and hiding his location, and everyone thought of me as a dead beat dad, Who did not want to see him.
About a year ago, I got into contact with him and we talk. Do you know I can't defend myself and even claim not to be a deadbeat dad. I can't tell him his mom kept him from me. If I want to try and make this relationship work, I can't be honest about his mother, because he grew up with her.
He'll drop contact with me, for bashing his mother and not taking responsibility for running off.
There are a ton of fathers who are grieving right now and want to be a part of their children's life. There are mothers experiencing the same thing.
Had somebody sterilized me for perceived wrong doing, I wouldn't have had my second son, who is the only reason I bother to even wake up in the morning. More important than me missing out on having my youngest son, is that the word would be deprived of him, and he is a net benefit to the world.
How about yo uh climb out of your ivory tower and be a less judgemental person. Even if you have an absent parent in your life, you only know one side of the story should give them the benefit of the doubt.
I am a dead beat dad, and I grieved for my son as if he had died. I did not know if I ever would see or hear from him again.
Suggesting the sterilization of dead beat fathers is ignorant. Judging them is ignorant. We also know that this sort of parental alienation, is more likely to happen to poor people who have less access to legal remedies.
How come every other thread started on this site is either by some ivory tower conservative who wants to piss on poor people or some elitist liberal who also wants to piss on poor people?
Jesjs christ, I hate the fact this is where a bunch of upper middle class kids gather to sharpen their ideals on how to further fuck poor people over. It's as if they are trying to finish the job their boomer grandparents started.
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@TheUnderdog
So how do we punish people who ditch their girlfriends and wives when they are pregnant? Surely this must be punishable.
They are punished by losing access to their child and that relationship.
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@Double_R
It’s an exchange of an official act for ones personal gain. This isn’t complicated.
When. It is a request for an honest investigation, it doesn't seem that bad.
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@Double_R
Here we have Rudy asking for an *announcement* of an investigation into Trump’s political opponent
Here is what I looked at below. He said evidence actually exists and that the honest person put in charge will find it. Why do the investigation in secret? If Trump's political opponent is innocent, why does he call a request for an honest investigator, some sort of bad thing? I would be more concerned he said something like "hey we are faking some evidence and want a dishonest investigator". It looks like he said the opposite of those things though.
he's gonna investigate and dig up the evidence, that presently exists and is there any other evidence about involvement of the 2016 election,
See above. He says that the evidence actually exists. Nothing wrong with prosecuting somebody who has done something illegal and actual evidence exists for.
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@TheUnderdog
There you go wit HB the word girlfriend again. Implying men are ditching women after they get pregnant and not acknowledging that casual sex exists. Is it really ditching my child, if I knocked up some hooker last week?
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@3RU7AL
There are more "outliers" than "conformists" in my experience.
That is stupid and the definitions of those words prove it.
Have you ever met a woman who tells you, while you're dating, they want to stay home and raise children and cook and clean and never get a job
Yes, not sure what that has to do with sexual strategy though. You seem to be ignoring the only point I have made about different sexual.market place strategies to say something simple.minded like
"You know some women are different than others"
No shit, genius. Sad that you somehow think the fact Tom Boys exist proves women use the same strategies as men.
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@Vader
Do it. I'll recruit people off site if necessary
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@TheUnderdog
Yes and I think the people who do one night stands are taking a risk they shouldn't take unless they use at least collectively 99.9% effective contraception
I think you forgot your own premise, which is why you gave this irrelevant answer. I'll remind you.
Deadbeat parents ditch their spouses after realizing they are pregnant.
The premise is that black people (let's be honest about who you are referring to here) . Leave women they get pregnant. You are not considering that a lot of people have one night stands, or are just fuck buddies. It's not so much leaving, as never being committed to start with.
Drop your premise or defend it. Ignoring your own premise for your argument just shows you are trying to rationalize your beliefs instead of base theming logic
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@3RU7AL
Yes.
Do you think societal conditioning is a myth if there are outliers?
What is the motive behind your question?
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@TheUnderdog
parenthood.
Deadbeat parents ditch their spouses after realizing they are pregnant.
Have you ever heard of one night stands?
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@bmdrocks21
Hill people. Like the hatfields and mcCoys. It can be traced back to Europe. Generally very proud people, and kinda self destructive. Some hillbilly culture remains and is why the appalachians has a lot of poverty and criminality.
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@3RU7AL
All women go to the same handful of stores as girls and are subject to toys for example marketed to girls like kitchens, barbies and play vacuums?
Women start as girls. Correct.
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@3RU7AL
All women go to the same handful of stores as girls and are subject to toys for example marketed to girls like kitchens, barbies and play vacuums. So yes there is overlap on the conditioning process.
I also agree with you that disfigured people have a harder time getting laid
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@badger
Even women prefer women, but since women don't have a penis they fuck men
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