Yassine

islam is an evil cult , muslims are just victims of this evil cult, it's teachings and Ideologies  , sharea law is the law that caused the destruction of many muslim countries.

it's exactly the same  .

they have done it to the arabs and now they are trying to apply this to the west with Islamophobia 

but I would like to say Islam have a fear of everything that's not islam 

look you just mentioned how reading the hadith and quran should make one realize how bad islam is but they are accusing you of being an racist

if christianity had half the shit mentioned in islam those people wouldn't shut the f*** up about how evil christianity is 

he also had no children with her , -note that muhammad had children with all of his wives other than 2 , one was too old to bear any while the other aisha too young to bear any , most of them died -

it's mentioned in the quran just read the verse

his first wife was hell rich and why didn't he built a harem back then ? while he is with her ? because she was his sugar mama , she was 40 back when you people are claiming that it's ok to marry a 9 years old kid you sickos 

is this a new thing ? where incest is invented ? 

just read the text dude

you're forgetting to mention a very important part here , they were his direct relatives , he also wouldn't want to distribute the females of his own clan and direct relatives as s*x toys,,,,,, cough right hand possessions for his followers now would he ?

would love to hear when did anyone was ever killed for insulting america

my morality stems from my belief that god do exist it's just not the god/gods from organized religion and unlike you my morality comes from wanting to be a good person and not from fear of hell or whatever

how many people died for no other crime than criticizing/satire islam ?

why not the issue is in the language we shall debate in arabic

this is annoying I'm talking about the importance of "الحركات "  in the meaning of arabic words 

how about the story of lot/lut the holy quran?

"Whoever you find doing as the people of Lot did (i.e. homosexuality), kill the one who does it and the one to whom it is done

why did allah punished the people of lot/lut , I would love to hear that it wasn't for their homosexuality and why ?

the middle east was ruled by the roman empire before islam ever existed in case you didn't know

muhammad freeing the people of Banu al-Mustaliq totally doesn't sound like marry me or your entire clan will remain slaves -totally not blackmail-

muhammad freeing the people of mecca?

they are his direct relatives , even muhammad wouldn't let his antes and uncles end up becoming sex slaves to his followers

and please enlighten me to what those your right hands possess(slaves/war captives) means ?

https://brill.com/view/book/9789004398795/BP000001.xml#:~:text=One%20of%20the%20most%20important,by%20other%20human%20beings%20and%2C

let me guess , Islam is a faction of Catholics that was created by the catholic church to destroy Judaism ? right Yassine ?

since we're mentioning conspiracy theories  I thought I should mention this one since I kept hearing it a lot 

nearly from every non catholic Christian I ever argued with , they usually think I'm a muslim because of my name

1.I'm pretty sure that you're aware that homosexuality is punished by the death penalty in islam 

if you deny that then please tell me that allah didn't punish the people of lut/lot for homosexuality and why were they punished ? in the story mentioned in the quran ?

2.Liberal Capitalism WTF is that , feel free to name any Capitalist/liberalist you want and I'll write an entire novel of satire about them

you know what, I'll write a novel where Liberalism/Capitalism raping them in the @55/having an@l s*x with them  and I'll share it on the internet

give me the name of any Liberal Capitalist and I'll write you a trilogy of gay erotica , I'll include even bestiality , if you commission me too I'll pay an artist to draw some illustrations and include them in the book too

would you bear it if I did the same to your prophet and god ,?

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13961380/1/divine-smut-in-jannah

How to deal with a "Vile Wife"......Islamospeak.

Treat a woman with equal respect.

And you might find that she is not so vile after all.

And the husband is never bad?

And Yassine is seemingly someone who would separate and silence the female sub-species.

are you comparing " science , logic , and morality " to unreliable feelings 

then tell me , what parameters are you going to  use to judge religion ?

I'm very interested in knowin

And what is a good wife to do with a terrible husband in your fine religion?

Let's skip the part where you downplayed what strike meant

or the amount of completely crap spousal treatment and emotional neglect involved in the 'silent treatment' stage, oh and refusing to sleep with her and talk to her as punishment?

Can the wife do that to the man too if he is a bad husband, in your religion?

How did Muhammad treat women?

How did his fine sidekick Khalid treat them?

This smacks of those well rehearsed  sayings "not all Muslims" and "only a tiny minority," which I have covered on this forum sometime ago, Vic lad.

Where does all this radicalism come from—including the 8% of Muslims worldwide who now support ISIS?

http://www.telospress.com/how-many-muslims-still-support-terrorism/

Considering this is  8% of 1.6 Billion Muslims "worldwide" which sound very tiny until it is converted into figures and words, this then amounts to 128000000 or One Hundred & Twenty Eight Million Muslims or "ideological nutcases" who support Islamic State which is by no means a "tiny minority".  And I am sure anyone running for government office wouldn't turn their noses up to this "tiny minority" on election day.

Don't these 'rights' sound like they're sexist against men too then?

Of course I am a feminist. I am an egalitarian, also support Men's Rights Activism.

5. Women who are otherwise -disloyal & disobedient- then advise & remind them [the period prescribed by the jurists is up to 1 month], if they persist:

6. Leave their beds (silent treatment, hoping they may have some time to think & come back), if they persist in their rebellion:

7. Strike them lightly [with a pen or such, & the Prophet (pbuh) said "and the best among you will not hit"], once they relent (at any point):

so basically be a narcissistic sociopath of a husband

There's no such thing as religious plagiarism, really. The contents of all our religions go into the cultural mixing pot and everyone dips into it.

I can give you plenty of the opposite kinds of Islamic teachings regarding women if you want.

Here's one

Shall I show some more?

What a peculiar world of moral standards must one live in to believe in that?

wow , the only time he did it it was a betrothal gift , to his wife

and it all started with a muslim merchant introducing the entire black people as slaves and selling them on the silk road

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OdIqeWkhHU&ab_channel=AlMuqaddimah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unxxpXUgARo&ab_channel=LogicBombs%D8%AA%D8%B1%D8%AC%D9%85%D8%A7%D8%AA

would they hand such position to any non-muslim black person ?

how many other slaves died due to torture ? he was being tortured for being a muslim , if I recall ? yet muhammad only saved this one .

thank you . attacking the person rather than the ideas shows your character .

muhammad and allah allowed his followers to sleep with the female war captives and the evidence have been mentioned in my post before

muhammad himself would divide those female war captives along with battle spoils among his followers that fought with him.

When the slave runs away from his master, his prayer is not accepted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Autas

"Autas captives"

the reason muslims go to jihad is to take the female captives of the countries they conquer

 Muhammad allowed his followers to have sex with the female captives taken from the defeated enemies of muslims or should I call them slaves since they can even sell them ,, they are given as a reward to his followers

a religious leader comes to you after the battle and tells you to pick whichever slave girl you want , and you claim that he is doing that to let him pick one slave girl to protect her ?

do you think everybody else is an idiot ?

- The Prophet (pbuh) freed over 60 slaves, of all faiths & races, with the little money that he had. His companions freed hundreds of thousands. Abd-Rahman Ibn Awf, becoming a rich merchant during the early Islamic conquests, is known to have freed over 30,000 slaves.

where are your sources again ?

I recall the story of muhammad freeing bilal a black man since he was a muslim , yet he didn't free the other slaves under Umayyah ibn Khalaf

Yeah I didn’t want to go there because it does seem like TFR’s are falling everywhere, including in the Islamic world and Africa, but clearly any society that manages to hold onto a decent birth rate is going to have a huge advantage in the future. Right now I have my eyes on Central Asia, especially the “Stans”. Kazakhstan bottomed out at 1.8 twenty years ago and is now back  to 2.9….hard to see that happening in a western country 

I do think you are onto something with the highlighted bit. Fertility rates crashed in Latin America almost on a dime once smart phones (and therefore social media) became affordable. And my pet theory is that some of the countries with the worst fertility rates are ones that have huge amounts of western influence but also vestiges of traditional culture. For example,  in South Korea there is feminism, women are doing just as well as men economically etc, but the man/his family is still expected to provide the house when there’s a marriage. No wonder people are having difficulty starting families 

Another aspect of this people don’t think about it warfare. I know there have been relatively few wars in the past decades due to Pax Americana but that’s going to eventually end at SOME point. I know there will be further increases in technology, robots, drones, etc but fighting men being totally obsolete is a “I’ll believe it when I see it” thing for me 

A society with low birth rates would get rolled by one with high birth rates. Pretty much no matter how the war is going, there’s going to be massive political pressure to sue for peace pretty much immediately when you have tons of families with four grandparents, two parents, and one son losing their progeny

at the time of certain islamic Caliphate muslims faced a very big problem

due to the jihad in Africa the number of black slaves was very high

making their market value very low , you could buy two black slaves for the meat of 1 chicken .

so the caliphate gathered his advisors and asked them about what he should do , and one of them had the answer .

"let us sell them to Europe"

the entire race of black people was introduced to Europe as slaves thanks to islam

#there were no crusades in africa#

.- you are allowed to f*ck the slaves/war captives -

....Prophet (ﷺ) saw her, he said to Dihya, 'Take any slave girl other than her from the captives.' ...

The Prophet (ﷺ) bought a slave for two slaves.

I was among the captives of Banu Qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.

Nafi' (RAA) narrated, ‘The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) made an attack on Bani al-Mustaliq when they were unaware. He killed the men who were lighting and took the women and children as captives.

muhammad did free a black slave because he was a muslim , he didn't care about the other slaves when he freed the muslim slave

muhammad/islam was totally ok with slavery as long as the slave is not a muslim .

I'm going to say one thing

do you think that I an ex-muslim wouldn't know the stories about the religion I left  .

https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%D8%B1%D9%82%D8%A9_%D8%A8%D9%86_%D9%86%D9%88%D9%81%D9%84

Let us begin with one of my favorite  :

1."The quran provides that the length of a normal gestation (pregnancy) is six months (Luqman 31:14; al-Baqarah 2:233; al-Ahqaf 46:15). Luqman 31:14 and al-Baqarah 2:233 provide a nursing period of 24 months. Al-Ahqaf 46:15 provides a total of 30 months for both gestation and nursing combined. This leaves only six months for the period of gestation. We know that this is not true. Normal gestation lasts nine months.

Tafsir At-Tabari

At-Tabari mentions several interpretations. One of them is this:

هو الحوت الذي عليه الأرَضُون

It is a whale (الحوت), which on it the Earths.

<Nun> - the whale (الحوت), which is under the Earth the seventh.

Tafsir Al-Qurtubi on 68:1 [9]

From his use of the word "tahat" or "under" it can be surmised that in Al-Qurtubi's cosmology the earth is seen as flat.

ِTafsir Al-Kabir (by Ar-Razi)

بالحوت الذي على ظهره الأرض وهو في بحر تحت الأرض السفلى

..with the whale (بالحوت) which over its back is the Earth and it is in the sea under the Earth (الأرض) the lowest.

Tafsir Al-Kabir on 68:1[10]

Al-Kabir here repeates the idea that there are multiple flat earths balanced on the back of the whale.

ِTafsir Fath Al-Qadir (by Shawkani)

This tafsir is from the 18th century and it mentions several interpretations. One of them is the idea that the world is carried on the back of a whale:

هو الحوت الذي يحمل الأرض

It is a whale which carries the Earth.

There is thus attestation of Nun the whale in both the Sunni and Shi'ite tradition.

hadith :

a).Abu Dharr said: I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water. - Sunan Abu Dawud 3991

b).The Prophet (ﷺ) asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All- Knowing." (36.38) sahih bukhari

quran 18:86

the sun sets in muddy water spring 

Quran 18:90:

Until, when he came to the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had not made against it any shield. 

If you looked at the stories mentioned in the holy quran you'll find that most of them if not all of them came from both the bible and the talmud with few edits here and there to make them seem different .

The cause of that is muhammad went every year with merchant caravan together with Waraqah Ibn Nawfal which is the maternal uncle of Muhammad via Khadijah, Muhammad's first wife.

His presence in the story of Muhammad is so problematic. Most people who believe in Islam never heard about him. Those few who did, are just given a "quick" passing by mentioning in their Islamic classes. Yet, even by Islamic standards, he was a very important figure. Some see him as the first person to believe in Muhammad even before the first message had arrived.

Who is this man? Waraqah was a priest in Christianity and Judaism. He is Nestorian priest. Waraqah lived a long life and died of old age shortly after Muhammad got his first message also muhammad went with him as he would go with merchant caravan.

His story throws big concerns to the claim that Muhammad's message came from Allah or via his angel Gabriel - especially when Islam ended up near carbon copy of Nestorian faith (a mixture of Christianity and Judaism). It shows Muhammad had access to the knowledge.

On top of that it shows even more that the Kuffar of Mecca tolerated all faiths, including having a priest among their ranks (Waraqah would have been a Quraishi). It proves what Islamic text sort of admit, that the Kabaa was open liberal place for all people to practice whatever faith they have in peace by the fact many gods were allowed on display. It proves that the Kuffar never harmed those who did not follow their gods. 

Khadijah, a very successful business women in her own right, was a monotheist and most probably Christian Nestorian like her uncle - some Islamic scholars may disagree this shows the feminist view of those Kuffar and place any nonsense about how women were treated back then into the trash -like islamic claims of women being oppressed back then- .

When did the people of Mecca have issues with Muhammad? When Muhammad started to insult their gods, when they would wake up in the morning and find the statues of the gods dessicated and damaged, when Muhammad mock them that their gods are useless! Talk about tolerance??

But for me, this hadith throws the doors wide open on the story of Waraqah. The hadith suggest that shortly after Muhammad started getting the revelations "....But a short while later Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was paused (stopped) for a while so that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) was very much grieved." Sahih al-Bukhari 4953

This proves Muhammad knew the man very well, and likely behind his inspiration!

islam plagiarized stories from Christianity and Judaism  

here is few that are mentioned in both the quran and the talmud/torah :

• Gideon/Saul (Tālūt)
  
• Saul, David and Goliath (Tālūt, Dāwūd and Jalut)
  
• The Queen of Sheba
  
• Jonah (Yūnus) and the big fish
  
• Haman
  

here is few stories that are mentioned in both the bible and the quran :

• Zechariah (Zakariya) and John (Yahya)
  
• Mary (Maryam)
  
• Jesus (ʿIsa, Yeshuaʿ)
  
• Moses (Mosa)
  
• Abraham (ibraham)
  
• Lot (Lut)
  
• AntiChrist
  
• Adam and Eve
  
• Noah the ark and the flood
  

1. muhammad was a child rapist :

2. he lusted after his adopted son's wife -zinab bit jahsh- , Qur'an 33:37

3. he was a male gold digger -used the money from his first wife after her death to marry 12 more and built his own theocracy -(she was his sugar mummy)  NOTHING can say I love you more than using all your money to marry 12 more woman after you especially that muhammad didn't dare to marry any other wife back when she was alive.

4. he was incestuous - his adopted son's wife was also his own cousin "zinab bit jahsh "-

5.he took over 100000 slaves and distribute them among his followers and the believers in his religion over multiple wars and battles with the disbelievers of the tribes around him , muhammad cared about ending the slavery of muslims as for non-muslims their slavery is totally fine in islam.

muhammad did free many slaves but all of them happen to be muslims

6. encouraged child marriage :

Narrated Jabir bin `Abdullah:

....

7.anyone that insult islam/ muhammad must die :

A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse -insult- the Prophet (ﷺ) and disparage -insult- him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but....

and this is why muslims kill anyone that insult islam or muhammad

letting the murderer of a woman go since she deserves to die for the crime of insulting muhammad

the dude sounds totally benevolent more like malevolent

you should argue about this with christians , I'm not a christian I'm agnostic

1.how far they are willing to go to prevent people from offering any criticism or satire towards islam

2.how willing they are to force reinterpretations and alter the meaning of words in their books just to forcefully include scientific discoveries  , I learned arabic since I was young along with other languages and I know that all the scientific nonsense you claim mentioned in the holy Quran is just misinterpreted words

one example wasaa

them into terrorists -including :

1. don't fear death

2. defend allah and muhammad with your own lives

3. 72 vergins in the afterlife

4.you must love muhammad more than yourself, your money , your parents , your wife and children otherwise you will not enter heaven

5. the quran is the answer to everything and the quran can never be wrong

13 have the death penalty for homosexuality in their laws .

5  have indefinite imprisonment for homos.

islam have the death penalty for homosexuality and mentioned the story of the people of lut/lot where allah punish those people for their sexual orientation mentioned in the holy quran

I say that islam is not worthy of any respect

I am not Muslim and I have absolutely no respect for the religion or its leader. 

Nevertheless, do Muslim religious scholars agree with these allegations or are they are all derived from interpretations from former Muslims or people not associated with it? 

In other words, why should we trust the voices of those who have a clear bias against Islam? 

Islam as a religion is a ridiculous religion. It is a religion that requires obedience and submission. It is a religion that indicates that salvation is earned by obedience. And obedience not just to a dead prophet but to a God that is not personal and has no concern for me.

Its God - ALLAH rules by fear and the sword.

Should there be respect? I said above I have no respect for it. I ought to qualify that as in regards to theology and philosophy. For in a country ruled in accord with Islam law - respect is necessary. Sharia Law is deadly if there is no respect.  So, I confess I do respect it in some circumstances. 

Yet, I take the view that we ought to understand Islam - as it is understood by its Scholars and academics and clergy- in order to contrast and compare it with our own ideologies. Whether it be Christian or Secular or Hindu etc.  Our own measure of good and evil or right and wrong is immeasurably important to determine how Islam stacks up. 

And its perpetual Jihad .  You forgot to mention perpetual Jihad against the non believer. At least to  my knowledge the Christ on the Christian  doesn't command one's head be removed  for simply not believing in him.

40% want the death penalty for those who leave Islam 

- Your point?!

My point is clear. To leaving Islam does not require physical action, it is quite literally a thought crime. You see nothing wrong with being stoned to death for leaving behind a belief? 

60% of moderate Muslims believe that a wife should obey her husband 

- I fail to see how this relates to peace?!

There is a difference between obeying someone and having mutual respect.

In a marriage, the man should respect the women, and the women should respect the man.

Obedience is what you ask for from a servant or slave

Your entire post is full of absolute bullshit, no other word for it. For instance, in order to distract from how horrific and unjustified 'honor killings' are, you compare them to murders done in an emotional heated moment which is not just called a crime of passion but is known as the impulsive variant of second degree murder usually (sometimes it's third degree if the way it happened was very accidental and indirect vs the aggressive act made. The crimes of passion that result in human death are not comparable to honor killings, in fact honor killings quite literally always involve premeditation because the family conspires to do it beforehand.

So what is divinity other than the concepts and consequent faith of men?

I’m just going by common definitions. 

It isn’t because Earth’s inhabited lands are one biome for humans. It’s only possible for you to say that with a straight face due to modern technology. Ask yourself why aren’t modern humans that diverse? The only large/wide difference population wise is skin pigmentation and that’s not saying much. It’s because the finches have been separated for millions of years, modern humans have not. Yes, I know it’s hard to comprehend big numbers.

What do you think of ancient humans/hominids such as homo erectus and further back australopithecus? 

You have your own definition of what constitutes species.

I personally don’t equate mutation with randomness.

You gave me a link that doesn’t support any of that.  

- Lmao! It's your OWN link & its sources that says those things. Oops... that's embarrassing.

I admit, I couldn’t be bothered reading through what you said.

From a quick google search this is the definition google gave me: 

A group of living organisms consisting of similar individuals capable of exchanging genes or interbreeding.

What I’m saying is you’re making the inclusive circle smaller going from apes to great apes. You’re starting to sound like one of those “evolutionists.”

- By now, you should realize that the this is not about the postulates of evolution, rather about the tactics of evolutionationists in using ambiguous definitions & equivocating between different meanings to allow for their mythology to exist.

Sure bud. 

- In your dreams. Do the work then, build the argument from 'fossil record' to 'evolution by natural selection'. It may be a waste of time, because it's an impossible feat.

An impossible feat to convince someone as wilfully ignorant as you maybe. 

- As long as you bring a single supportive actual evidence, you could use Homer's Iliad for all I care.

Of course that would be for all you care.

It’s a good thing we don’t just rely on the fossil record to explain evolution then.

I’m pretty sure animals don’t just pop into existence though.

Okay, I agree. Changing and moving doesn’t necessarily entail evolution, such as when I move my arm.

You can consider that to any organism the sustains itself through other organism or even chemical compounds and radiation absorbed. 

But why does this matter? 

Both the cell and virus require energy. 

- Lmao! Isn't this just wonderfully pathetic. With this much faith you have in this mythology you could've been a high priest in Shamanism. 

Lmao! It’s better than believing animals just pop into existence in the course of 100’s of millions of years.

But I guess it makes you closer to Allah (your magical sky daddy). Pathetic! 

Do you want to carry on using this toxic language?

That was part of my explanation of how scientific theories work. 

Your turn. 

Strawman. “here is my word, therefore it’s true” is an invalid argument as well. 

You still need to think it through. 

Yes, humanity will learn more and explain evolution better. I agree. 

So just one guys who you don’t like for his militant atheism?

It goes to show It’s because of your feelings you don’t believe in evolution. 

What makes you feel good is all that you care about.

I’m sure your perspective of evolution would be different if someone you felt positive of taught you about it.

It's there  in 18 words.

Why  say in a 1000 words, what can be said in 18.

So prove that it is a GODS will and not just the will of men.

NB. All literature is  written by humans...So it's no good whatsoever, quoting from old or reinterpreted literature.

I don’t know enough about this to comment apart from knowing double headed snakes definitely exist.

I asked because you almost have to be a Young Earth Creationist to believe evolution doesn’t/hasn’t occurred. What are your beliefs?

Species is the lowest rank on the taxonomical tree.  

Of course two closely related species are interfertile. 

Also keep in mind the Galápagos Islands is essentially one biome.

Little evolutionary pressure apart from the various foods they eat such as fruit, seeds, nectar, etc.

So yes, it’s speciation. 

Depending on the organism, let’s say 100,000 generations, you think they’ll still be the same species from where their ancestors started?

- Dude. Your own DNA is copied & split in your own body into 100 trillion cells, each cell copying DNA & making some 50 million proteins, that's 5 billion trillion times (not just 100,000), & still the same effing DNA. Cyanobacteria has been going on since 3.5 billion years, that's more than 100 trillion generations. It's still cyanobacteria.

So humans have been around for 3.5 billion years? 

All mutations are harmful? Like becoming lactose tolerant? You can see this in the human genetic/migratory record. This is natural selection.

You gave me a link that doesn’t support any of that.  

You’re saying any species that can breed with each other are not different species, correct?

You’ve moved the goalpost from apes to great apes yet humans still full into that category. 

You’re saying species can’t be interfertile, correct? Or are you using your own definitions? 

This is one piece of supportive evidence you asked for which you said would be sufficient.

Do you want to go into genetics now?

If you don’t believe in evolution and you’re not a Young Earth Creationist, what do you believe?

It’s reasonable for me to conclude you think animals just pop into existence in the course of 100s of millions of years.

If you have the truth, I want to know about it.

Second: What do you mean viruses are not self-sustaining and self-reproducing?

No organism is if they don’t have energy to consume/produce.

Also what do you mean by “Darwinian evolution on a virus is a spinning wheel.”? 

Third: What do you mean there’s no such thing as speciated bacteria? Scientists speciate bacteria all the time in the lab.

Fourth:  Cyanobacteria are prokaryotic which means they’re evolution is difficult to study. Though scientist are starting to apply more techniques. 

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10531-015-0888-6

Well you don’t consider adaptation as evolution. So there’s no point

The theory of evolution by natural selection explains how evolution occurs.

P1. If Evolutionary Theory, then Evolution.

P2. Evolution.

C. Therefore, Evolution.

I only see your strawman. 

Are you saying my words are more trustworthy than the links I share? Think that through.

Remember, this isn’t a debate. 

What’s the reality if not evolution?

So people online who aren’t experts.

Sharia Propaganda

thank you Yasmine for taking the time to respond to that

That's a very detailed response and very enlightening. Have you considered writing a book?

I bet anyone reading your book on Islam would stand to gain a lot from it. At least somebody like me who knows nothing about it. 

Is it Allah's will that people should not be free to choose.

No, it's the will of men.

When you look at how predominantly muslim societies will often stone queers to death and do honor killings, I think they mean punished by death in those statistics. 

Sure, if it's physical science, it's harmless. Everything else however is banned because according to Islam, truth is on their side.

Again, this nauseating pre-arranged idea of truth in the inquiry of knowledge is the most annoying part of islam. Practically, it leaves absolutely no breathing room for alternatives. 

This is where I disagree and decided to choose a different lifestyle. For the next part of your large posts, you've said a lot about submission. I am well aware that personal whims do not override religious obligation. Well, i know that islam has been consistent on this end. As I said earlier, the fundamental issue is that i don't agree with its lifestyle. Thus, I chose the west.

These inferences mean nothing if only to show a generalized rejection of those you deem different than you.

I'm not intending to move to the west to be a pioneer of something, I just want out of a Muslim country and read literature freely until I grow old. Malays have a simple philosophy of life. Be simple, live simple lives. Jesus, I'm not an over-zealous american hell-bent on achieving her dreams.

I think the last part of your posts about inheritance laws seem like a rejection of my anecdotes. I think you've only offered your own rebuttal in the form of counter-anecdotes. ill read it a second time next time in case I miss anything. Once I do, expect a reply to that.

Good luck with your discourse.

Feel free to roam the forums, I don't really care what you do. Freedom to speech to reply to any of my posts and others and whatever. I believe the usual stuff with this site applies. you should conversee with other like-minded philosophers, plenty of them seem immune to your kind of stuff. Good I guess, but I don't have to follow them or you. I'm usually good as an observer of two debaters insulting one another because some of them can be pretty insightful. I really like that about this site. However I have my own rules that I apply arbitrarily to myself. I dont want to throw insults because I have dignity and I don't have infinite time. I have control over participation so I will limit myself where appropriate.

Bangsa apa yang paling gobo dalam dunia in? bangsa yang suka menipu dalam hal perbahasan

Enough with the accusation that I lied.

I did none of those things; I'm not a snake who promises a contract only to bail a few weeks later. I could go with this local stereotype that Arabs/Indians/Whites are aggressive and unbearably loud in asia. But I didn't; I gave you my honest opinions as an apostate. Aside from that, this is good resource.

So... Kripke's modal logic came from the greco-arab translation movement.

And Kant's synthetic a priori probably came from...another Arab. No doubt, you'll probably say analytic and rationalist philosophers took their own inspiration from reading Ghazali. Ok, I understand your perspective 

Might be interested in a debate. No promises though. But currently, I'm on Hobbes. So was his profound influence on pleasure and law an Arab idea? Feel free to say something about him too.

As to Hume, well, he placed his faith in his supervisor, not of Locke or Burkeley.  Plus, it was him who contested the majority of Newton's work, not Berkeley. You're wrong to suggest that Berkeley's essays had an influence on the Anti-Newtonian movement. Plus, Hume's lasting legacy is his work on sentimentalism. His letters concerning natural sciences are pretty much defunct. I don't defer to him on natural sciences for the same reason why mathematicians don't defer to Kant on mathematics. they're both outdated. There are clearly false misrepresentations you made about western literature there. I'm not sure if they're  sloppy writing or that you've carelessly written them from memory. Either way, i'll leave this on a positive note.

I haven't checked on all of the other theological claims though. Do I plan to? At the moment, no. I'll see about what I can do about your post in the near future.

That next post is useless. All I could read from that is the typical classic condescension from the ulama: that I'm incapable of deep thought.

You sure you don't live in Indonesia and actually oversee the office to turn apostates back to reverted status?

I'd rather live in a melting pot of various western perspectives than to live under the constant condescension of Muslims for simply choosing a different lifestyle. No thanks.

If Hume was a muslim and if he mass-produced and circulated his book, he would've been executed for corrupting the public sphere.

Additionally, Voltaire and the German idealists share none of your views.

Absolutely none of their philosophy is inspired from your religion.

What's next? That Max Weber's Christian Faith in Capitalism is Islamic?

That Calvinism arose from the doctrine that Muhammad prophesized that he and his companions(and their followers) are the only worthy sect in Islam? No.

Well, on an unrelated note, I did remember that Malaysia successfully commercialized Islam, so go ahead and make your own illustrations of what you think of that. I'll read them and I won't distract the thread.

I don't disagree with anything you've said about dhimmis. The only thing I want to note is that If you think that's where rights are sufficient for dhimmis, you're wrong.

Though, muslims are right in the fact that there are indeed dangerous enemies operating within every muslim nation. You could bomb them (enemies of Islam) for all I care; they're just as extreme as Islam.

I don't live in the west. I've only lived vividly through their philosophers.

It doesn't end there. If you evaluate the muslim countries under some form of sharia, the Inheritance laws are incredibly punishing for non-muslim minorites

and if you choose to marry a muslim whilst secretly retaining your atheist/catholic/Buddhist belief, you'll inevitably told to be buried alongside your "muslim brothers". No amount of petition/work will help you settle your grave alongside your deceased non-muslim parents.

In addition, your properties will be given to muslim in-laws, rather than your own flesh and blood. Good luck with that level of freedom.

I could survive in a fundamentalist society, so long as they don't pervert their way into banning western literature. That would be the final straw imho.

There's a lot to unpack in your posts. For the record, I think you seem to be partaking in a sort of generalized rejection of the west.

Although I'm interested in what an arab (than indonesian) would say about that,

I still think your gigantic post isn't any different than other islamic clerics that I've seen.

You're beating a dead horse.

You're free to suggest that I've strayed too far away from my Buginese roots. I could easily claim that I am a singaporean amoi and you'll even suggest the exact opposite. how very convenient of islam.

Not withstanding the amount of muslim-to-muslim discrimination between indonesians and arabs, I can see that this tale of islam is predictably old. Case in point: my parents had done the exact same thing few years ago. I'll be honest now since you've been polite to me (as Safalcon did) in the past: I have no intention to pursue this along the lines of a generalized rejection. I have no intention of pursuing this along the lines of assimilation or reversion of either side; the waves have settled and I have moved on.

For a short statement of my issue with your post, I don't think you've actually looked at what "degeneracy" actually means. You're inferring  degeneracy for granted, which is understandable given how islam is currently structured. And by suggesting that, you've essentially outlined the exact issue I have with islam: its clear, fanatical in-group favoritism at the cost of those who chose a different life.

Islam is willing to converse with me in so far as I play-pretend and apologize for harmlessly choosing a different life. To do otherwise is to do exactly what you've done: accuse normal people like me of treason, blesphemy and defilement of islam. I'm definitely aware of the "public sphere" that clerics warn me and my family to safeguard wholeheartedly, especially against muslim enemies.

That said, generally speaking, I don't see how you can beat the "freedom to choose/speak/read" lifestyle that the west offers.

I'm betting that the middle east (like inonesia) has a tight control over its distribution of literature; the muslim countries are a joke. Practically, the countries are a mess and you should sort them out yourselves before critiquing the west. My opinion.

Been an interesting series of years.  

How things been on your end around here?

You've made exceptional posts in the thread. Thanks, I think I will subscribe. Your posts are all very useful but I want to say a few words about your statement below: