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@Polytheist-Witch

I'm going to assume by belief system you mean just my religion because beliefs are basically gathered from several different sources as far as how we function. On that note I'm going to have to say a six. Much of the original practices were lost because of forced conversion to Christianity. Also a lot of the source material for Germanic paganism doesn't exist or has been incorporated into Catholicism where at least Iceland had the Etta's and that the Etta's give a clearer vision of the practice for the Norse than the German. But I'm comfortable with my current practices are appropriate for the gods that I worship and my ancestors.

- So you're Norse? I like King Canute. How do you feel about the forced Christian conversions? Do you worship because you're in a journey of truth or in a journey towards tradition?

I'm going to say 9 of 10 because new experiences and information have changed my belief from time to time. Usually in the sense that I add things to it more than I change or remove things from it.

- Of all the different myths, which do you feel most attached to or closer to the truth?

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@Lemming

No, I think I just try to take a cautious step in what I believe.

- What's your next best step?

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How much do I know about my belief system?
10/10

- That's very high. People who know less tend to feel higher, who do you feel you know 10/10?

How strong is my belief in it?
perhaps 9ish out of 10.

- You're a hardcore Taoist? Why don't you post about Taoism?

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@Bones

Regarding politics

3/10

Regarding religion

9/10

- What's your religion? Politics?

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@oromagi

I'm so impressed with the depth of your argument.

- Seriously, you lose all credibility when you lie so much. Don't always assume the other party doesn't know the subject. Some of us do know... I'd take it from Stephan, but he is a fanatic, which I hope you aren't.

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@Lemming

Of my beliefs, Atheism, Nihilism, Existentialism, Hedonism, Materialism, American Law/Customs/Ethics, World History, Egoism, Limited Altruism, Nationalism.
Knowledge 3/10.
Strength 7/10.

- That's moderate. You have a bit of inclination elsewhere?

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@badger

- Have you bombed a mosque yet?

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@Polytheist-Witch

Animals can't consent.

- They don't consent to being slaughtered either. What does it mean when a dog f*cks his owner?

I don't see homosexuality being offensive at all.

- You predecessors felt otherwise, so will your successors feel differently about things you don't like.

People who are related having sex with one another is creepy.

- So are people of the same sex. You gotten used to that one though. Where is sexual liberty & rights & all that jazz?

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@oromagi

Good question. Let's agree that the most evil kind of sex is rape- where a participant is unable to say no to the sexual act. It stands to reason that any country where women have no control over who they marry and are not allowed to say no to sex once married and indeed can often punished only for being the victim of rape must, by definition, be more depraved than countries that have strong laws protecting men and women from rape.

- No. This is nonsense. Depravity =/= aggression.

Based on population size, quality of law enforcement, and legal structure protecting rapists, I would submit modern Pakistan as the most sexually depraved society in history.

- No. Western countries generally rank much higher in rape rates, usually by an order of magnitude higher, than Muslim countries, including Pakistan. That much is obvious, for in an over-sexualized nation the opportunities & incentives of rape are substantially much higher than in a modest nation. The punishment for rape in Pakistan is death penalty, unlike in your countries, where rapists get 3 years or months or stupid shit like that. – As to your very civilized countries, the numbers are simply staggering, as much as a third of US campus students report sexual assault, 6% report incestuous assault by family member, a fifth of prison inmates are raped, thousands of serial rapists & killers, the filthiest most vile rape crimes one can imagine, many times every day, an unending stream of crime shows & programs just to cover some of the most atrocious of these cases. Like the one kept in the basement to be raped by her father for decades, or the ones kept in a container as sexual slaves for years... The problem is you export this rape culture all over the world, fueling one of the most lucrative tourist businesses.

That number reflected the percent of Americans who identified as gay or lesbian at a time when identifying as gay or lesbian could get you fired or thrown in jail.

- No. You need to stop making shit up.

By 2014 that number was over 8% and is probably higher now.

- Well after two decades of exposure & legalization, of course. It is indeed higher among GenZ, as I said, it's close to 40%.

There's no evidence to suggest that the actual prevalence of homosex has increased, just that people are a lot more honest about it as the consequences for honesty have diminished. We've understood since the 50's that gay identity has little to do with gay sex which the majority of all humans seems to enjoy to some degree. For example, only 3% of daily viewers on PornHub come in through the gay video portal but an astonishing 40% of all content viewed on Pornhub is male only. That's a whole lot of straight men jerking off to a whole lot of porn with zero women. Any psychologist or priest will tell you that the percentage of straight men who feel burdened by a single same-sex indulgence or recurring gay fantasy is closer to 80-90% range. Studies of actual sexual arousal patterns confirm that virtually all women are aroused by sex acts between only females and the majority of all men are aroused by sex acts between only males.

- All this is nonsense. I've read dozens of studies on this subject, mostly BS. Bottomline, destigmatization leads to normalization. If you legalize pedophilia tomorrow, be sure by a generation or less, most people will become pedophiles. Same with everything else. Sexual stuff is just addictive. It is not that GenZ are more gay, it's just they experiment more therefore they get into it.

That's a lot more honest than a few decades ago.

- So, if in a few years when that number becomes 80%, you're gunna say "a lot more honest than a few decades ago."? – Saves us all the trouble, & just say you're all gay.

On what science do you base this ridiculous presumption?

- You know... the Greeks were literally all gay. They had sex with men before marriage. The rate of LGBT from Boomers, to GenX, GenY & GenZ are increasing, there is no reason to believe it's gunna stop at 40%. Also, more alphabet letters are going to be added to that spectrum, so...

In my studies of history and literature, it seems likely that the great majority of every culture was at least secretly, quite bisexual and that the numbers of humans willing to admit to bisexual feelings is directly proportional to the amount of freedom in society.

- No. It was directly proportional to the amount of normalization the practice enjoyed in that society. Self-incest was common among Zoroastrians because it was not seen as bad, when the Muslims next door abhorred it. Same with Greeks & pederasty, or some other nations with Zoophilia. In some regions of Columbia today, they all f*ck donkeys & animals, because it's normalized in their culture. Absolutely any practice no matter how repulsive, if normalized it will become normal, even murder, & infanticide. There isn't a single practice which hasn't been a norm sometime someplace. Abolish consent laws or reduce them & see what happens.

You see peaks of homosexuality in Greece, the Roman Republic, Western democracies, etc. Gay marriage was briefly legalized in the early days of the French and Russian revolutions.

- LOL! No. Don't lie please.

Its not so much an increase in same-sex experimentation so much as an increase in (men's) willingness to talk about their secret feelings.

- So everybody is all 200 paraphilias all at once? Yeah, no. This has nothing to do with "freedom". You don't even have sexual liberty, what you have is merelya decadent society which found its customs degraded in time as it decades. Enforcing one sexuality under the plea of free love just to deny another undermines your own cause. It's also incoherent & hypocritical, especially given the history of said cause itself, then stigmatized as a "perversion" & "abuse" driven practice. Committing against others exactly what you denounce against yourself. You give homos the sexual rights which you deprive others with other orientations, be it incestuous, zoophilic, pedophilic or otherwise. Why? Because these practices aren't popular yet, albeit cause for sexual liberty.

Naturally, you haven't even researched the subject enough to understand that PEDERASTY and PEDOPHILIA are mutually exclusive terms. Pederasty is sex with pubescent adolescents

- No. It's sex with PREPUBESCENT boys or pubescent boys who don't show no (or little) sign of maturity (beard, jaw...etc).

while pedophilia is getting turned on by prepubescent children. Greeks and Roman men had a lot of sex with teenage boys but those boys generally weren't any younger than the legal age of marriage for women. Pedophilia was still a crime in both of those cultures.

- Why do you always lie?! Do this nonsense with people who don't know. Obviously you don't know anything. In Ancient Greece, child male beauty was considered the apotheosis of aesthetic, & love for a boy a divine love. To be adopted into the education system, fathers would chose adult lovers for theyr boys as a right of passage to prove honor, else not welcomed to the aristocracy. In fact, the most important bond in Greek society was between the adult sodomite & his sodomee. It pervaded every aspect of their political, social & academic life. Wives were taken for children, not for love.

I don't have much a problem with same sex incest. So long as inbreeding is not a risk, I can't see what would motivate public interest.
Again no problem as long as women are afforded full equal rights and young males are kicked out of the family.

- Why?

the absence of women's suffrage in conservative Islamic societies

- Keep your fantasies to yourself. Muslim women have been able to participate in votes since Islam's inception. This isn't the West, where every minot achievement is celebrated as a groundbreaking revolution. Meh.

Pedophilia, Bestiality, - these are cases of rape- the sex is involuntary, the victim is not in a position to say no.

- Says who?! Listen, the initiative cause of "Free Love" & "Sexual Freedom" born out of the French postmodernist movement lead by intellectuals like Foucault, De Beauvoir, Sarter & others, which spread to the US in the 60s & 70s, did not aim to legalize only homosexuality. They called for decriminalization of all consensual relationships, including between adults & minors & zoophilic relations. In 1977 a petition to abolish consent laws in France was issued to the French Parliament & signed by 70 prominent intellectuals. Their rationale being – that maintaining consent laws, which were priorly set to protect the chastity of young girls, when chastity is no more a concern, is to create a criminal class of adults without any actual crimes committed, predicated that adults are criminals by virtue of being just adults – that to claim a child is incapable of consent is preposterous, for they are sexually aware & do effectively & normally consent to sexual acts (with other so called minors) – & that consent laws are predicated on a contractual condition, of mutual agreement, without a contract, hence void laws. Indeed, all sound & valid arguments.

I have long argued that the LGBTQ+ initialism is stupid. Queer is a one syllable word and the semantic intent is recognizable just about anywhere English is spoken. Just as queer is seldom used as a synonymous with odd anymore exactly because the widely understood alternative meaning. Queer is inclusive, already including a the initials commonly employed but also initials to rare to include. Somebody should contact the monolithic gay culture community hotline and tell them that stringing on more initials is tiresome and erosive to queer reputation. We're not going to just keep adding syllables to acronyms until nobody can stand to use the term. Queer is fine, direct, super-inclusive, well-understood and comes with the advantage of a certain amount of history.

- Why is sexual identity so important?

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@SkepticalOne

That "depravity and sexual fantasy" is explicitly permitted by the Quran.

- & the Earth is flat. You know what's absolutely depraved though, it's the dozens of millions of teen & preteen children in your country being in sexual relationships without marriage, more than 40 thousands of them bellow the age of 10. What you abhor is not children being sexually involved, for that is glorified in your debauched culture, it is rather commitment & rights brought by marriage. Now that is unacceptable to the depraved mind. Only 3% of sexually active children in the US are in marital relationships.

Muhammad married A'isha when she was 7

- Betrothed*. She could've been 1. It's a nothing.

and took her to his house as a bride (with her dolls) at 9.

- MARRIAGE. Perfectly legal in your country as well, done with mutual consent, dower, home, majority & with parental approval. She loved making dolls, that was her hobby even at older age. The beloved Prophet (pbuh) supported her hobby as well. They loved & were committed to each-other. He died on her lap & was buried in her room, then she carried his legacy becoming the most influential woman in History. But I know true love isn't what your over-sexualized culture is about, instead it's all about sex to you. Disgusting!

I don't revere pedophiles or cherish books which permit pedophilia.

- This means nothing, you're but a mere slave to your decadent social customs. Sexual liberty necessarily entails pedophilia, as your depraved masters such as Foucault & Derrida indeed dictated. Your predecessors felt the same about homosexuals too, & here you are.

I also dont gaslight when caught out. It is not my moral compass which needs calibrating, friend.

- You have no moral compass. It's just customary feelings. If you were born a couple of decades ago, you would've abhorred gays, in a few decades you would feel ashamed how you ever disliked pedophiles, of which your countries are full. All it takes is a little bit of exposure, & boom. There are no moral boundaries anymore in your society, just a matter of taste. Answer me then, why do you feel homos get to express their free "love" & deprive pedophiles & all the other philes from expressing theirs?

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@Polytheist-Witch

Actually if they were going to add a new letter it would probably be for polyamory or polygamy. I don't technically think there's anything wrong with those and I think most people don't care either.

- Christians have a very strong bias against Polygamy than anything else. It's very hard for such a practice to gain popularity in a majority Christian nation.

Incest still illegal in most areas so I don't see it coming around anytime soon, thankfully.

- If you accept homosexuality, why not incest?

And bestiality will never be acceptable people do love their animals like they love humans which is why they would never tolerate an animal being raped.

- It's already legal in a lot of states, though not normalized yet. Why would the animal get raped if a dog enjoys f*cking his owner?

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- From a scale of Jon Snow to 10, how much do you know about your belief system? From a scale of 1 to Jesus, how strong is your belief?

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@SkepticalOne

This. I have to say, it's pretty tone deaf for OP to rail against the 'sexual depravity' of LGBTQ and modern society when neither condone pedophilia

- They do, of course. It's just not popular enough yet.

...unlike his holy book.

- Please! Don't stick your depravities & sexual fantasies on us. Ew! You're atheist anyways, you got no moral judgment.

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Well pedophilia will never be added to the western LGBTQ+

- It definitely will, have no doubt. Soon too. It already was the case in the West in the past. It already is today, except your people go elsewhere to do their business, such as South America, Africa or places like Thailand. Also, in case you didn't know, why do I have to teach you people your own history, it gets old. The people who instigated the Sexual Liberation in the West, starting with people like Foucault, Sartre, De Beauvoir... did so for both Homosexuality & Pedophilia, as depravity has no boundaries, except the former succeeded faster than the latter, with enough media exposure. In fact, pedophilia then (70s) was less stigmatized then homosexuality. A man who lived with 12 girls as young as 6 in France was sentenced to 3 months in prison.

but has always been socially acceptable for legal marriage in Islamic cultures until they realised that elsewhere it is considered disgusting and wrong.

- Use this in the debate. It'd be a shame if you lose such a "nice" line of reasoning.

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Normal People?

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@Lemming

I'm pretty sure opposing or competing factions, often holding different ideals or plans, is common of government and history.

- Yeah, but the world is big & human history is vast. Right/Left is restricting your abilities to embrace that.

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Normal People?

- Any normal people on this Forum who don't subscribe to this nonsense of Left/Right, Liberal/Republican, Progressive/Conservative... that, honestly, the rest of the world does not give one ant's a** about? If not, any among you tired of this dichotomy BS?

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@BrotherD.Thomas

YASSINE,

YOUR RUNAWAY QUOTE STATEMENT BEGINS AS USUAL: "- I remember beating you up so hard your 9th life almost left you, the shockwave of your running was felt under my couch. Are you a masochist? Is that why you're here for another beating?!"

Oh look, you RAN AWAY from your PEDOPHILE Muhammed's FACT of marrying a 6 year old girl named Aisha, what's new? NOTHING!

CHAIN UP TOMORROW, because your ride in this forum is going to get real BUMPY in the name of Jesus, praise!

- I know you miss the same beating you got last time, that's why you're recycling the same nonsense you said that time. I'm not into your kinky shit. Debate or skate. Put up or shut up.

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@RationalMadman

- Stick to the OP! Save the above for your debate, unless you're planning on running away, then I may opt to respond here instead, though I'd rather not so you'd waste your character count on stupid shit like that. – Anyways, you seem to care a lot about LGBT, you don't want others left behind, so what do you think is next in line?

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@BrotherD.Thomas

YASSINE,

YOUR PARADOXICAL QUOTE: "What is to you the undeniable proof that the Bible is true? What does truth mean to you?"

- You still live...

The Judeo-Christian Bible is as true as your Qur’an Bible in making it true by your Islamic given propositions of subjective proof, and that was embarrassingly written by your pedophile Muhammad with his SIX YEAR OLD wife named Aisha, that wasn't even in puberty yet when he married her! (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64)

Yassine, listen up, I don't expect you to discuss this matter with me because the last time I easily took you on relative to your Satanic faith of Islam and your disgusting Qur'an relative to beating women, YOU RAN AWAY FROM ME AND WENT INTO HIDING NEVER TO BE SEEN AGAIN AT THAT TIME! How embarrassing that was for you, remember?! LOL

- I remember beating you up so hard your 9th life almost left you, the shockwave of your running was felt under my couch. Are you a masochist? Is that why you're here for another beating?!

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@Polytheist-Witch

Literally the first thing you said to me in this topic after I posted. If I'm a polytheist that would mean I believe all the gods exist not just my own.

- So you're like Shinto?

Just because you people think you're god's the only god that exists doesn't mean it works that way for everyone else.

- We believe a sole Creator God exists. Else are are angels -as in divine beings- responsible for running tasks in the Universe by divine command, such as to enable light, water, earth, love, wind... which have been mistakingly identified as the true enablers free from the Creator by prophetic followers.

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@Polytheist-Witch

Fact is something that's verifyable by scientific method.

- No. The scientific method provides explanations of facts, not facts.

Truth is something that is true but there's no way to prove it.

- If there is no way to prove it, how then is it Truth? If I say anything that you can't prove, does that make what I said Truth?

I agree religious texts are true but they're not fact. I believe that events and religious texts happen somewhere just not here on Earth.

- Somewhere?

I'm not sure why me being a polytheist means that I can't discuss religions or gods outside of my own pantheon.

- Who said you can't!

Like people just assume I've never been a Christian study Christianity that I don't look into the religions that I'm some sort of f****** dumbass that doesn't know what the f***** going on.

- I'm sure all this is in your head. Chill...

Yeah it's okay for atheist to run their mouth about every religion they want to and that's okay because they are smarter than everybody else.

- Atheists are the dumbest creatures there is, many of them willingly so. Regardless, you were expressing your beliefs about Christianity, hence my question about said beliefs.

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- How do we recognize the most sexually depraved human society in History? When sexuality becomes identity itself. A couple of decades ago, 2% was the share of the LGBTQ population in the US. Fast forward today, apparently 40% among GenZ identify as LGBT. This number will keep increasing in the future until, most likely, by next generation virtually the whole population may be involved in these practices -just as Pederasty (gay pedophilia) was normalized in Ancient Greece. Now, every other year a new letter is added to the LGBTQABCD+ sexual identity spectrum in your countries. The American Psychology Association (I think?) lists some 200 paraphilias. Which do you think is next in line on this identity alphabet?

- My personal list is: Incest, because free love & all that; then Bestiality, because western people love their animals as they love humans & more; then Pedophilia, because consent laws are anti-sexual freedom; then Polygamy, because no Christianity can stop it anymore, then everything else... So, LGBTQIIBPP+

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@Polytheist-Witch

If you only want certain types of people responding put that in the initial post and I won't waste my f****** time.

- Chill... That was a genuine question.

It has truth it doesn't have facts I've tried to explain this before and people don't get it that's all the more I can say about it.

- What's the difference between Truth & Fact?

All religious texts. Period.

- No.

Pretty much anything Paul has to say in the New Testament is Paul's opinion. And most of what modern day Protestant Christians attribute to Christ was Paul's b*******.

- I don't disagree with this...

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How to end homelessness

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@TheUnderdog

- The same solution works for Israel. Israel supporters love Israelis in Arab land, at the expense of Palestinian people. We should move Israelis to live in Israel lovers' lands & share their homes. This way everybody is happy.

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What constitutes an organized religion.

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@Polytheist-Witch

- What does it matter if it's the Truth!

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@Polytheist-Witch

The Bible is a half truth. I don't believe Jesus was the son of the God of Abraham. His message is completely contradictory to the God of Abraham's. I certainly believe Jesus was tapped into the Creator. But his messages has been completely tainted by Rome. I certainly believe the Old testament is truth in that it's what the God of Abraham expects from His followers. In that sense it's as true as any other set of myths and stories that explain how a God is supposed to be worshipped.

- This is a bit confusing?! Are you polytheist or do you adhere to some form of Christianity or Judaism?

That said the Bible contains no facts.

- It has some facts. It can't all be false.

And I say this because there's no way to prove anything the Bible states is real.

- Do you mean about God or in general?

I don't think that means the Bible's false I believe the Bible is like any other religious text and that it is not fact but it's not a lie.

- You can't generalize into all religious texts! The Quran is fact.

The New Testament is a lot of b*******.

- Can you provide an example?

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@Tradesecret

When I was younger, my Christian faith was rocked by the false teaching and misunderstandings of how to interpret the Scriptures. I grew up in a home where both atheism and fundamentalism was taught. I grew up thinking the false hermeneutic of literalism was the way to understand the bible - but also to believe that the bible could be proved by reading the newspapers and watching current events. When things did not pan out as expected - it made me question the bible. I left the church - and at some stage - ventured on a journey to experience truth - traveling and visiting and talking with various teachers.

- Any specific such instance?

I was rocked as an atheist by the profound emptiness of atheism but also by the fact that I had to actually stop using my brain. Yes, question everything but the fact of atheism. Inconsistency and hypocrisy rocked my thoughts and led me away from such a depressing and sad and twisted viewpoint.

- Were you actually an atheist though?

I have never practiced a different religion than Christianity. Yet, I have experienced and talked with and studied with many of the different world religions. I have found all of them - similar in respect to Atheism. They all are pointless and devoid of life and meaning. They all have the façade of profundity yet - all fall at the first hurdle.

- Any specific hurdles?

Things are no longer the same as they were in the past for me. In the past - I was one looking for God. Or some kind of meaning for my life. This in essence is the pursuit most attach to life and probably for religion too. The most profound realization came one day - it is not that we look for God - but rather that God came for us. This profound and deep thought has rocked me more than any other in this world. And it changed my world and everything in it. My perspective was turned upside down. A paradigm moment I suppose.

- What does it mean for God to come to you?

It shook me so much - but at the same time - then was a deep sense of real peace that flooded throughout my entire body and mind. Suddenly everything became much more clear and real and vivid. Not that I suddenly knew everything - because I don't and in reality don't know that much at all. Yet - the realization so changed my perspective that suddenly the clarity was overwhelming.

- Any specific thing you gained clarity into?

Yassine - I wish that you could be so rocked - so changed that your life would never be the way it was.

- In Islam we experience true spirituality, which you won't be able to understand unless you experience it first hand. But that's not the point here is it.

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@Reece101

I’m sorry I hurt you.

- Aren't you tired of hiding & running from debate?

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- What is to you the undeniable proof that the Bible is true? What does truth mean to you?

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@Reece101

With magic?

- The type you use to run away?

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@Reece101

The summit with 72 virgins? Very decadent.

- Case in point, moral abyss dweller.

We both know it just turns into who can bother to write more.

- More running away. That's not even a good excuse...

Most of your replies didn’t address what I said.

- How does one address another's attempt of shoving a camel into a needle?

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@Reece101

I should have said a theocratic Christian. Unlike Islam, Christianity doesn’t have teachings to establish a theocracy.

- You're trying too hard to shove that camel into the needle. Islam is too high a summit for your moral abyss to even glimpse. Stay with your primitive tribal systems, please! Although, for someone who loves to talk, why do you always run from debates, huh?

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You mean a milkman today's income? Or are you saying a milkman's wages back then?

- He's telling the truth. Lower income wages actually dropped from 40 years ago, while productivity more than doubled, so did real estate & other non-discretionary expenses. Minimum wage was set up to feed a family of three, today it can barely make it livable for one person.

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@Dr.Franklin

Nah they shouldn't reconcile with other people, they should take pride

- False pride is undesirable. They will reconcile regardless, better before doom than after the fact.

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@Reece101

- Smarten up...
Islam is pretty degenerate you gotta admit.

- You dumbed up. Never go full retard.

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@Reece101

You’re abstracting culture to the extent that it’s turning into the human condition.

- Is this supposed to be a meaningful sentence?

- Decadence corrupts people, both mentally & spiritually. On one hand, the stability & security which surrounds self-indulgence makes individuals desensitized from the harshness & realities of life, they lose their courage & sense of dignity. The strange things we see today are testament, all that nonsense about PC culture & "safe-spaces" & "triggers' & "mental" problems leading to even suicide for the dumbest of things. On another hand, the self-indulgence entails violation of all boundaries, i.e. hedonism. Individuals lose all self-discipline, hence all self-checks against immoral & oppressive actions. On yet another, self-gratification leads to selfishness (individualism), therefore loss of social solidarity & cohesion. All that said, with the slightest instability the whole nation collapses into chaos.
Here you’re describing the culture war mixed with your own narrative. It’s manufactured by media you’ve partly bought into.

- If you keep doing this, I'm just gunna drop it. I know you can be smarter than this. Try your best to read that again.

Vaguely. Can you give me a few examples contextually?

- Ask your English teacher.

Isn’t a man who beats his wife for talking to strangers or for not wearing a hijab or burka, self-indulgent and self-gratifying?

- If you're into that type of kinky BDSM shit, then yes.

Although some would consider the woman had it coming for being “immodest.”

- You seem to be wanting to say something, but you're trying to shove a camel into a needle.

Is an army justified for laying siege and pillaging such a place? Might makes right sort of logic.

- By the time that happens, that place would've already self-destructed.

A non sequitur with a small whataboutism added at the end. Nice. Well at least I know where you stand when it comes to witchcraft.

- You keep using words bigger than your brain, it's making this awkward. Take it easy buddy!

Yeah it’s people pushing this culture war bullshit.

- Yours, that is.

You think America will collapse within 100 years?

- 100 years is a very long time. The Soviets did in 10.

I say it will continue declining in influence, have a few outbursts, have many economic rough patches, and adapt.

- 50 years ago there were more urban people living in the US than East & South Asia combined (save Japan) producing a third of global industry. Today, more urban people live in 4 Chinese provinces (out of 23) than all of the US, & the industrial output of only 3 Chinese provinces surpasses that of the US. Where do you believe this equation is headed?

What was a major form of decadence that lead to their downfall other than systematic deception, and genocidal forces from the outside.

- Self-gratification.

- Which part of self-indulgent & self-gratification & degeneracy do you not understand?
When it comes to systematic deception.

- Smarten up...

Exactly. Allah wills all things. Fantastic.

- Absolutely. You included.

Is homosexuality decadent?

- Normalizing it obviously is.

I try to correct as meany mistakes as I can. I think it makes enough sense. Though I will try again.
Conquest motivated by spoils of war are in and of themselves decadent, don’t you think?

- It may actually help to consult a dictionary this time.

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What Shook You?

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@zedvictor4

One is rarely shook,
Because one has become conditioned and therefore insensitive to the fact,
That there is always someone somewhere capable of something.
So if for example, I am told that someone somewhere can and does legally decapitate their spouse,
Then that event just becomes something else, that someone participated in somewhere.

- Nothing stopped you on your track of thoughts & beliefs?

And I return to my porridge, unshaken.

- Oats...?

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@sadolite

I am going with education and the media. The two biggest sources of political indoctrination in the entire country. Political Indoctrination starts in kindergarten. The media starts when speech begins.

- Why do you think that is? Why so much indoctrination?

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@Lemming

When people grow up under or 'see's someone else's influence, cultures, values,
This can often influence them to prefer said values.

- Only when that influence come from a dominant power, or a virtuous source, which neither are the case here. We are talking about a future -within few decades- where the West contributes only a 1/10th of urban population & global production, from a majority 50 years ago & 1/5th today. Half is dominant, 1/10th is very much not.

It's not so much other countries 'ruling over them,
As it is countries of their own will choosing to rule 'with.

- The implication here is that western people, instead, will chose to emulate the dominant powers of the future.

Same as small countries in older times formed larger countries, due to similarities in values.

- Today we see 4 major world civilizations of contrasting worldviews & histories competing: Islamic in the Muslim world (MENA region, Central & South & Southeast Asia, West & East Africa), Western in Europe & North America, Hindu in South Asia, & Sinic in China & neighbors – then another 4 peripheral civilizations between them: Black in Central & Southern Africa, Slavic in Russia & Eastern Europe, Latin in Southern America, & Pacific (the Islands, Japan, Korea, Philippines...). – Values belong to whoever dominates.

Friends and allies change,
Strategic visions, change.
I can't see the future.
I've only pieces of thoughts, not worth saying on the subject of how America ought to proceed, not worth saying.

- Alright...

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@Lemming

If the upcomers choose the UN,
The rules applied by the winners,
By benefit or habit,

- I don't know if this born out of naivety or just sheer wishful thinking, but you can't possibly expect others to chose your rule over them.

If the winners 'keep together,
Situation will last a while, I 'think.

- One, the winners themselves can't keep together, for they are strategic enemies, US, UK, France on one side, Russia on another, & China on yet another. Two, new powers are rising as well, & fast. Namely the Islamic world & India.

No, I don't think there's anyone in America who'll follow my thoughts through,
And my thoughts on the matter 'are a bit much,
So I'll leave my thoughts to rest, for now.

- I'm curious, what is it then?

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@RationalMadman

The US has never been better than it is today, in terms of progress. Covid and Trump's Teem maybe can be excluded but even then the progress is irrefutable.

- Again with the fantasies, unless you mean by "progress" LGBTQZ & gender pronouns & shit. It is exactly because of the appearance of things that nations collapse. Decadence occurs at the height of a nation's prosperity, which only makes the decadent society even more comfortable with their practices, for they believe they must be doing something right else how are they so prosperous. As to your nonsense, let's see... deindustrialization, per capita industry today is less than 20 years ago, worker wages today are barely what they were 40 years ago, household debt is 50% larger than GDP, national debt as well, cost of higher education doubled, healthcare as well, much of US wealth is essentially future money (aka debt), from stock exchange, USD, all sorts of Ponzi schemes; infrastructure is terrible, 2 trillion USD program & not even a dent??

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@Dr.Franklin

Oh yeah, tons of people believe that the Constitution was an extension of God's Covenant and that it is the actual government for Christians. Again, this is an OT theme. Of course it's incorrect because it was actually based on Enlightenment deist ideas.

- What do your personal opinion about it?

Have you heard of Tytler's Cycle? It is really actually similar to the Islamic philosopher you named. It basically argues that democracy is a cycle. It begins with courage, bondage and tight knit communities. Then, they receive liberty and the society prospers financially but has overabundance. As a result, "liberty" is reshaped meaning "do whatever you want to do" and immorality spreads through the land. And then, decadence and death. Here is a good summary. It is fascinating to see different cultures can come up with the same conclusion on ideas.

- Of course, because they are looking at the same facts in History. Ibn Khaldun saw nations as living organisms, going from birth to youth... to old age & death. A famous quote of his you might've heard of, "hard times make strong men, strong men make easy times, easy times make weak men, weak men make hard times".

A lot. But to summarize, there just needs to be courage and awareness. Awareness of the fact that America is declining and courage to fight it. Unfortunately I am not very hopeful, especially when are means to fight back are completely castrated. There is basically no political solution as congress is a rigged game determined by the plutocracy.

- I also believe the only solution for the West to maintain a future for their grandchildren is to go back to faith & reconcile with the rest of the world. The obscene wealth they built up at the expense of the peace & wellbeing of all other peoples may have maximized their own immediate wellbeing & self-gratification but it also put the wellbeing of their future generations at huge risk. – But I very much doubt any of it will happen, for death is inevitable. Ibn Khaldun also talks about six stages of a nation's life, the last being when Power is lost but replaced with Prestige. They dress the same & look the same, but their power is only in that others still believe they have it from appearance when they actually don't.

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What Shook You?

Everything that shook me supported me towards what I believe now, I have yet to be shook regarding my current belief system.

The biggest question I pondered over was if there was any possible mechanical way for a god to have always existed and yet be justified by the impossibility of everything to come from nothing.

- Do you mean, god -as a necessary being- must exist because everything can not come from nothing, or god can not exist because god can not come from nothing?

Years of pondering it led me to the conclusion that there must be a random generator that always existed/exists and a god persona that was randomly generated along the way hijacked it. Absolutely nothing other than this duality seems to add up.

- Can you elaborate more this, what do you mean hijacked it?

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What Shook You?

- Whether you're christian or atheist or jewish or else, what is the most serious objection or question or scriptural quote or doctrine or experience... that shook what you believed in or at least made you uncomfortable or unable to deal with?

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@Lemming

Even ancient Empires could grow quite large,
If the UN keeps around,

- The UN is just the global version of the local treaties imposed by dominating empires of the past on the lands & peoples they conquered. When they say rule-based world, they actually mean the rules imposed by the winners of WWII, the Allies, aka the permanent members of the UN. – Without the power to back their claim on world affairs (namely the economic & military power) these winners will not be able to maintain that control.

If the USA keeps to it's peacekeeper 'look,

- That's the naive American perspective, the US is anything but peacekeeper...

I imagine their influence will keep for a while,
Even when/if other countries gain military/societal parity.

- We are talking about military & economic dominance, not parity. A 100 years ago when they succeeded in dominating the world, 2/3rd of all human urban populations lived in the West. 50 years ago the Western urban population was equivalent to that of the rest of the developing world combined. In fact, there were twice as many urban Americans than urban people in China. In a couple of decades that ratio will fall to 10%. Why am I saying this? The urban population is the effective population of a nation, where much of the power resides. The boomer generation in the US -in control today- grew up in a world where power balance between West & Rest was so one-sided, the thought of anything but perpetual dominion could not be imagined. The Rest then was just coming out of Colonialism & becoming a stage for Cold War proxy wars. Things have changed since, & are changing fast. The upcoming generation will grew up in a world where West is but a small fraction of the world.

I think I'd prefer not to say what I think the USA 'ought do.

- Now, you must.

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@Reece101

I assume you’re talking about decadents from a conservative Islamic lens.

- Buddy, your culture is so far into the extremes of all Human History, the decadence is manifest through all lenses as the sun is in bright day.

Decadence leads to corruption which leads to oppression equaling death? Can you be more specific?

- Decadence corrupts people, both mentally & spiritually. On one hand, the stability & security which surrounds self-indulgence makes individuals desensitized from the harshness & realities of life, they lose their courage & sense of dignity. The strange things we see today are testament, all that nonsense about PC culture & "safe-spaces" & "triggers' & "mental" problems leading to even suicide for the dumbest of things. On another hand, the self-indulgence entails violation of all boundaries, i.e. hedonism. Individuals lose all self-discipline, hence all self-checks against immoral & oppressive actions. On yet another, self-gratification leads to selfishness (individualism), therefore loss of social solidarity & cohesion. All that said, with the slightest instability the whole nation collapses into chaos.

Self-gratification, self-indulgence, immodesty are all vague concepts.

- Don't play dumb with me, everybody knows EXACTLY what those mean.

Would you consider them more internally detrimental to a civilisation rather than externally?
(Note: after reading your last paragraph I think I know where you stand for the most part.)

- What exactly do you mean by that?

For example public beheadings for witchcraft and other such things. In meany ways public executions are self-gratifying, self-indulgent, and immodest.

- & the earth is flat, & ice-cream is potato, & I'm the queen of England...

Though you might claim otherwise, many conservatives in the West wouldn’t mind invading said society.

- Of course they wouldn't. The great civilized Western nations need to show these other uncivilized people some civility. You people are seriously becoming a joke to the world, not a very funny joke though.

Some try to cling onto barbaric teachings which stagnate their societies.

- Barbarism can also be very successful, though it's unsustainable. It's like criminal organizations, they rise fast & fall even faster. Hence, the West is stagnating, & falling..

- You mean, decadence kills nations? Absolutely. It's just math.

We’re not just talking about nations.

Do you think the Aztec Empire died out due to too many human sacrifices to their gods?

- Part of the reason of their collapse is indeed some level of decadence, though majoritarily it's due to Spanish "civilizing" attempts, aka genocide & systematic deception.

I don’t think you understand how vague you’re being when talking about decadence.

- Which part of self-indulgent & self-gratification & degeneracy do you not understand?

Though you will probably think Allah gave them smallpox.

- Allah dominates all the worlds.

Can you give me estimates after you properly define what you mean by decadence?

- Are you seriously asking, or are you playing dumb.

Okay so mainly due to war and conquest then. Does that make war and conquest justifiable on that count? Do you think it’s justifiable in the modern era? Wouldn’t you also consider the ones conducting said wars are partaking in self-gratification, self-indulgence, and immodesty? In other words, decadence.

- What the hell are you even talking about?! Do you understand English?

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@RationalMadman

I'll take that as a concession to them not contributing much (if anything) at all to science in the past 5 centuries.

- I'll take this as you going full blown ostrich, burying your head in the sand does not mean the lion isn't there. Very convenient of you to omit my previous post just to say this dumb shit again.

>>> I'm gunna put this in bold so you don't "miss" it again:

So, in terms of physics, chemistry, biology, psychology and technology what did the Middle East contribute in the past five centuries?

- The right question is what didn't they contribute. It's understandable why European revisionism gained such momentum & acceptance in late 19th century & early 20th century Europe, powerful colonial industrialized states with deeply racist ideologies to whom gratitude or recognition to Muslims was unthinkable. Though, we can't generalize. A great number of intellectuals, especially those sincere among them, stood against this nonsense, such as LeBon & Briffault. The History of knowledge & sciences thus becoming: something basic by the Greeks, then a reiteration by the Romans, then 1000 years of absolutely nothing, then an extraordinary invention by a European prophet. I also understand why they teach you this dumb childish narrative, it's part of your national myth, which every nation has. What I don't understand is why you expect others to subscribe to your myths!!! We have our own History.

- As to your question, although the Muslim world started declining mid-18th century, slowly abandoning much of their sciences, the collection, translation & studying of Islamic works continued in Europe until late 19th century. Muslim ideas permeated Renaissance & Enlightenment Europe, in everything. Just from what little we know about that period, the influence is huge. Of the +120,000 Islamic manuscripts collected during Enlightenment & prior in historic European institutions, only few hundreds are accessible today, mostly about literature & religious related topics. In astronomy, for instance, only a few of the +10,000 available manuscripts may be accessible in European institutions. Also, a very limited number of the +3 million manuscripts across the Muslim world, few dozens of thousands; even much less are in print, in the thousands. Despite that, we can already see huge influence of Muslim ideas on Europeans. From major paradigm shifts in Science, such as Evolution, where Mu'tazilite ideas about increasing complexity of life (from minerals to plants to corals to jellyfish to vertebrates to mammals to monkeys & finally humans) to natural selection, adaptive traits, survival of the fittest, camouflage, prey & predator... gained popularity in 19th century Europe, this constituted one of the arguments against the Church then for not adopting Evolution as Muslims already have (they mistakenly thought this was mainstream belief among Muslims, it wasn't) – or Set Theory, which was founded on one-to-one correspondence, quantifying the object & infinity nature, first brought up by Hamilton then Cantor (who is credited with it), although these ideas were widely studied & taught by Muslims for centuries. [I was actually shocked to learn that these ideas were "invented" by Europeans, since I learned them prior, such as from Sunusi's work (Jumal, from 15th century) who describes 112 rules of sets, about bijection, inclusion...] – The Ash'ari atomic & cosmic theory of matter & the universe (then mainstream in the Muslim world), that efficient causation is inductive, not necessary, that events are isolated & discrete, that nature is uniform by habit ('ada), dimensions are relative contingent on perception, such as time & space, that matter is quantized, accidents (motion/stillness, combination/separation) are probable until actualized, that time & space are quantized, that velocity is bounded.... which were adopted by the anti-Newtonian movement in Europe (by Berkley, Hume & others) to culminate into Relativity & Quantum Physics. To groundbreaking technologies, such as: firearms & the various weapons we are familiar today, which made the Ottomans & the Mughals so dominant, including canons, torpedoes use to sink ships, tanks used to bring down gates, rockets, rapid-fire guns... acquired by Europeans who developed these even further – the steam engine, used in by the Ottomans to carry loads but also for cooking & other mundane practices, then adopted by Europeans for more arduous tasks once coal was discovered (much denser in energy than firewood) – the mechanical clock (with hour hand, minute & seconds) invented by Taqi-deen Dimashqi in the 16th century – the variety of textile mills which made its way from the bay of Bengal to England, instigating the Industrial Revolution therein. To everyday practices, such as in Dentistry: dental restoration, implants, gold teeth, dental alignment...etc – Vaccination, adopted by Europeans from the Ottomans...etc. To even the most subtle things, such as Cancer categorization into 4 phases based on tumor size. We'll be here all day if I continue.

Sp did Greeks, pythagorean theorum was made by a greek.

- Pythagorean theorem existed a 1000 years before Greeks even existed. But same as everything else, Europeans love to credit it closer to home.

Trigonometry was Greek influenced, not just Arab.

- You mean geometric trigonometry. I didn't deny Greeks influenced Muslim in Geometry, who themselves influenced by Egyptians & Babylonians. I was referring to analytical trigonometry. In fact, it is Muslims who invented analytical Mathematics, where world problems were first modelized into general statements & equations, then solved deductively with deductive general solutions & proofs, instead of case-based solutions. This was later adopted in Physics as well, especially with Ibn Haytham & Biruni, to infer mathematical & analytical theories from observation & experimentation.

Now, let me also get this straight, you honestly believe that the Middle East and Islamic cultures in general pioneered liberty, equality, religious freedom, women's rights, commercial law, contracts, animal rights... & everything else.
To reiterate, you are under the impression that the Middle East pioneered the world's women's rights, religious freedoms, equality, liberty, commercial law, contracts and animal rights... oh and everything else too?

- If I'm not wrong, you seem to be under the impression that the above isn't true... If you so disagree with me, you can always debate me on the subject. You can also bring proof (which don't exist) to show that this is, in fact, not true. If you're just asking because you're curious, then I'll be glad to give you all the information you seek, you need just ask.

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Sure, if you believe the nonsense he typed. He has not studied the history he prides himself on if he thinks the social democrats and their porn-addicted sons are the main reasons America is struggling.

- Then why don't you tell us what are the facts.

The reason all nations except social democracies have countless social issues is that they aren't even trying to solve them, they'd rather be wealthy than care or 'strong' than care etc.

- Do you have any proof of this? Or is this more of your feelings?

These countries that Yassine celebrates are all so chock-full of social and societal issues that they will genuinely never develop until they make more secular and well-reasoned compromises.

- Case in point, hence the title of this thread. It's really sad to see people so indoctrinated & so intellectually abused by 24/7 propaganda that they say shit like this without feeling awkward. You don't know how bad you have it because of so much indoctrination of "greatest country on Earth" you're subjected to constantly. I lived in so many countries around the world & I stayed in more than 20, why the hell would I live in a place like the US or France, when I can stay in Turkey, pay 30$ per person a month for universal care (with literally everything free, from surgery, dental care, birth, even cancer treatment, even medication), pay 300$ for the best apartment with the best amenities (a dozen malls, countless parks, theaters, water parks, aquariums, hundreds of restaurants, pools, sport complexes, hospitals...etc at walking distance), pay 10$ a month for public transportation (metros, ferries, buses, trams, trains.. available in abundance), pay 15$ for plane ticket to fo anywhere in this country, & 10$ for a high speed train... every part of this country is brimming with access & amenities. Everything here is done via app & mobile, I don't speak the language & I don't need to. Nobody bothers me, the government is not up my a** for taxes, of which I pay none... When I lived in France, the government literally takes money from my bank account, a dozen thousand euros, just because they decided to. There are no amenities in the suburbs, I had to live downtown & deal with all the noise & smoking to have better access to amenities. Every goddamn thing was a trial of bureaucracy. You pay almost a 1000$ in insurance a month, just so you pay for all treatment out of pocket unless it's > 3000$. Go home.

- Think about this for a change: the minimum wage in Turkey is 4 times a family apartment average rent & 4 times a family social security package (includes universal healthcare & retirement). In the US or in France, the minimum wage is *half* a family apartment average rent, & even less for social security.

Saudi Arabia recently allowed women to drive, yet it only allowed a woman to run in the olympics if she wore the full gear in the heat of a British Summer in 2012, I don't need to tell you that she lost and was on the verge of collapsing.

- Of course, degeneracy is all you care about, it's your symbol of development. Who cares if people are poor, as you as the women are naked. Or who cares if they are prosperous or educated or happy, when they women aren't naked. Disgusting! Also, no love lost for Saudis, but the country is much much better than yours. Virtually free universal healthcare, free education, virtually free transportation, virtually no taxes...etc. The women love it there, they have their own spaces, their own parks, their own malls, their own everything, even their own beaches. Women heaven.

This mentality and ethos needs to first be dealt with, they need a basic respect for all forms of life (even animals) not just say they do but show it through action and then they can begin to speak ill of nations that do that more than them.

- You have it backwards buddy. You must drill this through your head please, your propaganda maybe taken at face value in your countries, but it means nothing to the rest of the world (except the tiny minority who are happy slaves to the West). You seem to think that what they tell you you should believe about other countries actually extends to the people in those countries. That's just a fantasy. This isn't new either, Chomsky pointed this out back in the 1980s in his book Manufacturing Consent. In case you didn't know, many watch your programs & see the absurd violence, injustice & degeneracy going on in your countries. We see what happens to animals in your meat factories, we see the asinine hypocrisy in all of it.

The US doesn't do it nearly as much as some other highly developed nations, it needs to at least partially subsidise its healthcare, the fact a poor person needs to be scared to even get an appointment to get checked for something, due to the cost, is a massive issue on its own.

- My bff was just telling me what he saw in San Fransisco, the insane homelessness & pathetic state of the city. You need to stop concerning yourself with other nations, & mind your business. You have more than enough to worry about.

You can know and be capable and still be arrogant, it's about how untouchable and invincible you feel in your haughty position and stance(s). Yassine presumes that everybody else needs to continually prove him wrong and he can just type whatever baseless opinion he fancies

- Projection much..?! Unlike your feelings & fantasies, I actually bring FACTS & NUMBERS to disprove your emotional outbursts. Chill...

and slap on some names of a couple Islamic scholars and therefore he's somehow proven that the US is crap, western europe is crap and that only dictatorships like China (which loathes Islam and is using the Taliban as a political pawn) are somehow superior and stronger.

- If you have a disagreement with what I say, by all means, show us your facts, or debate me. I'm always ready to debate & defend everything I believe in.

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