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@bmdrocks21
I wrote a whole god-damned long response to this that got lost in a browser crash just before hitting Create Post. It had a couple of PEW polls and a long personal story about my friend at FOX News, etc. Sorry but I just have no interest in rebuilding that long argument and anyway my loss might well be a blessing from everybody else's point of view.
--> @oromagiI agree with your assertion that liberals support free speech ideologically, but I disagree that the party that has historically been considered "liberal" supports free speech, at least to the degree that Republicans do. Free speech, at least until recently, seemed to be more of a bi-partisan thing. Republicans maybe supported it because it was in the Constitution, Democrats supporting it maybe because of ideology or some other reason.
Historically, its the Republican Party that has been the more liberal in US politics. But I'd suggest that core Republicanism as represented by Bill Kristol or Mitt Romney as well as core Conservatism as represented by George Will are not really within the Republican domain so long as Trump is king.
So I think that Alec is making the mistake of conflating Democrats with people who possess a liberal ideology.
I do think Alec is conflating liberal ideology with democratic. I also think you are conflating Conservatism and Republicanism with Trumpism when ideologically, there is little overlap. I don't think the polls about Democrat's tolerance of Trump voters represents Democratic traditional or overarching greater tolerance. I'm thinking about traditions like the Fundamentalist ( & Democratic) suppression of evolutionary science in Southern schools or the McCarthyist suppression of Socialist economics in the mid-20th Century. Even in modern terms, I find that the Republicans will think about Milo Yiannopolis' suppression (by students) at Berkeley while failing to note that Berkeley works hard to continue to bring those unpopular opinions on campus while classically Republican colleges such as BYU or Liberty seldom fail to protect unpopular opinion because unpopular opinion was never welcomed to begin with. Compare, for example, Berkeley's policy on free speech which is to "guarantee students the constitutionally protected rights of free expression, speech, assembly, and worship" vs. Brigham Young's policy which first and foremost limits any speech "with students or in public that:
- contradicts or opposes, rather than analyzes or discusses, fundamental Church doctrine or policy;
- deliberately attacks or derides the Church or its general leaders; or
- violates the Honor Code because the expression is dishonest, illegal, unchaste, profane, or unduly disrespectful of others."
I'd argue that a student at Berkeley, historically and presently, enjoys a much more expansive freedom of speech in that very liberal enclave than a student at very conservative BYU, in spite of recent anecdotal news stories to the contrary.
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@Danielle
answer my questions first please and give me a chance to evaluate your responses.
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@Danielle
I asked you a couple of questions in PM earlier today.
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@ILikePie5
-> @oromagiYou know lol is kind of your scum tell.POST#3"I also gave scum options of fake character + role claims in this game, but you are welcome to focus on theme analysis if you wish. Good luck everyone! "You ever bother reading the next few posts?“CORRECTIONS:- I will reveal flips after each lynch this time- I didn't give Mafia any options for fake claimsI just copy-pasted the OP from my previous game, my bad. The rest is applicable.”
I think I did read that at the time but when I couldn't remember in later DP's I just checked the top post. Sorry, my mis-read. lol is still your scum tell.
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@ILikePie5
She didn’t give any fake claims lol.
You know lol is kind of your scum tell.
POST#3
"I also gave scum options of fake character + role claims in this game, but you are welcome to focus on theme analysis if you wish. Good luck everyone! "
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At the same, Pie's theory could be right.I have no justification as the ones posted in the memoriam and same with Pie(2).
and nether do I but I'd much sooner believe that Danielle dropped the bios on a couple of PMs then Danielle's adding a bunch of biographical flourishes as folks die. Besides, if Chris were scum and Danielle had given him the fake claim wouldn't it be mean for her to give Chris all that stuff about Ellington held back by racism but then not giving town any bios stuff? Wouldn't that be making scum pretty obvious?
He could be right. But I am going to look at this behaviorally
good luck with that. What does it usually mean when Pie starts calling people retard?
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@ILikePie5
And even though that difference would give you knowledge of a secret game dynamic, she was willing to give you that advantage over other players?
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@Vader
Apply SUPADUDZ First Law of Pie
Is Pie's current activity level more consistent with SCUM or TOWN? You were right DP1.
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- Pie is theorizing that our given PMs are different from our post-mortem PMs.
- If true, then why is Pie theorizing? He already has his Bodyguard PM to compare to the post-mortem bodyguard entry. If Danielle added a bunch of biographical detail to the Bodyguard role, It would have been very obvious to Pie as soon as he re-joined DP3 but he only seems to be suggesting as much this afternoon.
- If the split between scum and town comes down to scum's PMs look different than TOWN's (and therefore Chris doesn't know what TOWN's looks like) then why did bringer's PM look to be the same format as everybody else's?
- If the split between scum and town comes down to scum's PM, then Danielle would be at fault for saying she was giving scum good fake claims but in a format that would expose the fake claim.
- If the split is between scum and town comes down PM structure, then Danielle's rule against discussing PM structure rings a bit hollow.
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Implicit (not comparable)
- Implied indirectly, without being directly expressed
- Contained in the essential nature of something but not openly shown
explicit
- Very specific, clear, or detailed.
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@ILikePie5
. You’re purposefully ignoring the empirical evidence that players while alive did not have biographies/justifications, but after they died they did. Chris is the only person who says that Danielle detailed this, which means she said it in his PM. This didn’t happen for any other townie.
so now you are arguing that the PM's danielle printed post-mortem are different from the PMs each player received? Is that even legal? Have you ever seen that in a game before because I haven't. Can you cite an example?
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@ILikePie5
Read the biographies of Speed and Pie and tell if that’s literally not an explicit justification.
Now you admit that TOWN has biographies. Remember six posts ago when you said:
"Town literally don’t have biographies. If they did Speed would’ve said it and Whiteflame would’ve said it, but there was none"
One of you is lying.
Read the biographies of Speed and Pie and tell if that’s literally not an explicit justification.
I just reposted them. All are implicit justification, Danielle never says, "therefore, you are Charles Gittens" the connection is just implicit by obvious juxtapositions.
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@Vader
Go back and read bringerofrain's sus on Chris starting about post #80
- Right now I think the fact Chris is the only person who has mentioned role justification is problematic and would like to hear thoughts from others.
- Also can we have everyone state whether they have justification for their role or not so we know if Chris made a scum slip.
etc.
Now ask yourself, if Chris and bringer are scum together and Chris has just said he has an implied (unstated) justification before others said the same, would bringer really be bringing that kind of scrutiny down on his scum partner? Particularly when bringer's own role had a pretty obvious implied justification (as do most town)
MAFIA because "it's unclear if he is more committed to his own status and the status of his group"
Pie is using the same argument as bringer did in DP1, so let's remember that bringer was scum.
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@ILikePie5
every townie didn’t have a biography/justification besides Chris who is blatantly scum
this is false. everybody claimed about the same level of justification- unstated but implicit
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@ILikePie5
--> @oromagiI believeyou. Chris does not say that he has a justification, he says the justification is implied.No he literally admitted what he said was in his PM. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5723/post-links/249575
That's a lie. Chris states:"Danielle gave those details and that is the obvious implication I can see, that the reason I am vanilla is because I was held back during my career from achieving my fullest potential. "
Implication means unstated. Chris is specifying that he has no stated justification, just like everybody else.
In fact, I don't think Chris has explicitly stated the implied justification but I guess its something like "you are VANILLA because racism held you back" it makes sense to me and this type of justification seems to match perfectly with all of the PMs that are TOWN verified. Why would you insist that having a briefer PM with less biograpy is more TOWN when you can see for yourself compared to verified TOWN, our PMs are more the exception?Town literally don’t have biographies. If they did Speed would’ve said it and Whiteflame would’ve said it, but there was none. It’s so obvious Chris is the odd one out, out of literally everyone
Here was Speed's biography:
Known as "The Man Who Killed Jim Crow," Charles Hamilton Houston (Speedrace) was a black lawyer who helped play a role in dismantling the Jim Crow laws and helped train future Supreme Court justice Thurgood Marshall. Houston played a role in nearly every civil rights case before the Supreme Court between 1930 and Brown v. Board of Education (1954). His brilliant plan to attack and defeat Jim Crow segregation by using the inequality of the “separate but equal” doctrine (from the Supreme Court’s Plessy v. Ferguson decision) as it pertained to public education in the United States was the master stroke that brought about the landmark Brown decision.
Here was yours:
In February of 1956, Charles Gittens (iLikePie5) was sworn in as a special agent, becoming the first African American to serve in the Secret Service agency. His remarkable career included a number of undercover investigations that later became high profile victories. As a special agent, Mr. Gittens protected Presidents Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Johnson, as well as Vice President Humphrey, Mrs. Kennedy, and President Johnson’s daughter.
Here was whiteflames:
Most people know about Rosa Parks and the Montgomery, Alabama bus boycott that began in 1955, but few know that there were a number of women who refused to give up their seats on the same bus system before Ms. Parks' famous story. One of those women was Claudette Colvin (whiteflame). When she was 15, she refused to move to the back of the bus and give up her seat to a white person — nine months before Rosa Parks did the very same thing. Rosa Parks was a bit older and had the right "image" to use as a symbol of the Civil Rights Movement, but it was often young people that made a lot of headway on the front lines. Claudette Colvin was one of four women plaintiffs in Browder v. Gayle, the court case that successfully overturned bus segregation laws in Montgomery and Alabama.
Whatever gambit you are trying when you say "Town literally don’t have biographies. If they did Speed would’ve said it and Whiteflame would’ve said it, but there was none" is obv false.
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@Theweakeredge
since just September? wow.
Congrats.
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@Vader
-> @oromagiIf you think I'm town, I'm telling you as Vanilla, I have no justification at all. Nothing. Chris is vanilla and said he does. You said no to having no role justification
I believeyou. Chris does not say that he has a justification, he says the justification is implied. In fact, I don't think Chris has explicitly stated the implied justification but I guess its something like "you are VANILLA because racism held you back" it makes sense to me and this type of justification seems to match perfectly with all of the PMs that are TOWN verified. Why would you insist that having a briefer PM with less biograpy is more TOWN when you can see for yourself compared to verified TOWN, our PMs are more the exception?
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Data regarding the “real-world” effectiveness of community masking are limited to observational and epidemiological studies.
- An investigation of a high-exposure event, in which 2 symptomatically ill hair stylists interacted for an average of 15 minutes with each of 139 clients during an 8-day period, found that none of the 67 clients who subsequently consented to an interview and testing developed infection. The stylists and all clients universally wore masks in the salon as required by local ordinance and company policy at the time.32
- In a study of 124 Beijing households with > 1 laboratory-confirmed case of SARS-CoV-2 infection, mask use by the index patient and family contacts before the index patient developed symptoms reduced secondary transmission within the households by 79%.33
- A retrospective case-control study from Thailand documented that, among more than 1,000 persons interviewed as part of contact tracing investigations, those who reported having always worn a mask during high-risk exposures experienced a greater than 70% reduced risk of acquiring infection compared with persons who did not wear masks under these circumstances.34
- A study of an outbreak aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt, an environment notable for congregate living quarters and close working environments, found that use of face coverings on-board was associated with a 70% reduced risk.35
- Investigations involving infected passengers aboard flights longer than 10 hours strongly suggest that masking prevented in-flight transmissions, as demonstrated by the absence of infection developing in other passengers and crew in the 14 days following exposure.36,37
Seven studies have confirmed the benefit of universal masking in community level analyses: in a unified hospital system,38 a German city,39 a U.S. state,40 a panel of 15 U.S. states and Washington, D.C.,41,42 as well as both Canada43 and the U.S.44 nationally. Each analysis demonstrated that, following directives from organizational and political leadership for universal masking, new infections fell significantly. Two of these studies42,44 and an additional analysis of data from 200 countries that included the U.S.45 also demonstrated reductions in mortality. An economic analysis using U.S. data found that, given these effects, increasing universal masking by 15% could prevent the need for lockdowns and reduce associated losses of up to $1 trillion or about 5% of gross domestic product.42
Conclusions
Experimental and epidemiological data support community masking to reduce the spread of SARS-CoV-2. The prevention benefit of masking is derived from the combination of source control and personal protection for the mask wearer. The relationship between source control and personal protection is likely complementary and possibly synergistic14, so that individual benefit increases with increasing community mask use. Further research is needed to expand the evidence base for the protective effect of cloth masks and in particular to identify the combinations of materials that maximize both their blocking and filtering effectiveness, as well as fit, comfort, durability, and consumer appeal. Adopting universal masking policies can help avert future lockdowns, especially if combined with other non-pharmaceutical interventions such as social distancing, hand hygiene, and adequate ventilation.
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@fauxlaw
I'm trying to remember if Dr. McCoy in Star Trek ever wore a mask in all his medical practice portrayed?
A surgical mask was a protective face covering used by medical staff to decrease the likelihood of cross-contamination and infection during medical procedures. They were in use until at least the 22nd century.
While trying to rescue Pavel Chekov from 20th century medicine, James T. Kirk, Gillian Taylor, and Doctor Leonard McCoy wore surgical masks to blend in with the other staff members. (Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home)
In 2368, Berlinghoff Rasmussen mentioned that he and a colleague had visited a 22nd century ship. Beverly Crusher replied that he likely saw surgical masks and surgical gloves. (TNG: "A Matter of Time")
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@Vader
My PM is more like Supa's and Pie's but I am not deceived. I can see four PMs written by Danielle that match Chris's description more than mine or Supa's.
Your choice, Supa
You can VTL Pie and win the game or deadlock and lose.
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@Bringerofrain
--> @oromagiHow long before schools are at full capacity and kids are no longer forced to spend more time with their abusive parents? There seems to be recorded extra anxiety in children as well as cases of abuse going up. Most people want a return to normalcy, so that way kids can get out of unsafe environments faster and have their anxieties reduced.
Whether or not school is in session, abused children should be removed from abusive parents. Scheduling school so that child abusers feel less stressed seems like we are focused on the wrong set of people. Teachers are not babysitters or social workers-both get paid way more than teachers. Ultimately, schools and teachers have a mission to educate and should determine the venue for that education as appropriate. Schools have exactly zero responsibility for parents schedules or responsibilities. If home is less safe than school than that is always a problem independent of any pandemic response.
We also have that mask laws really do harm society if we take out the medical benefits.
Why would take out the medical benefits during an history-making pandemic? Seems like medical benefits are the priority until the emergency passes.
A lot of people aren't aware of this either, but the longer a virus exists, the less deadly and symptomatic it becomes. It's kinda like evolution on a really fast scale. If it is less symptomatic and deadly it can be spread more, so viruses trend in that direction usually.
"The idea that circulating pathogens gradually become less deadly over time is very old. It seems to have originated in the writings of a 19th-century physician, Theobald Smith, who first suggested that there is a "delicate equilibrium" between parasite and host, and argued that, over time, the deadliness of a pathogen should decline since it is really not in the interest of a germ to kill its host. This notion became conventional wisdom for many years, but by the 1980s, researchers had begun challenging the idea."
The 1918 Flu become less deadly. AIDS seems to be less deadly now than in the 1980's But there's also lots of viruses that don't become less deadly over time- measles, mumps, polio, ebola. Let's recall that COVID-19 is actually SARS2- a much more easily spread (and therefore more deadly) version of SARS, which killed people much quicker.
SARS2 main innovation was a longer incubation time, which killed few people per infection but way more people over time and space. And we can see that the longer we let the virus spread in the population the faster it mutates in search of more sustainable forms.
Is it your argument that once this virus is no longer deadly that we should continue to harm society by forcing masks on people afterwords?
I'm saying that masks are but one cheap, effective, and sustainable defense against harmful particulates in the air. That's why doctors wear them in surgery. That's why construction workers wear them. Any time science tells us that harmful particulates are in the air is a good time for mask hygiene.
I don't know about you, but I would like to visit my mother again, without her being in a state of panic, and I assure you my mother has been in panic since the news started blowing this up. My mom is a healthy 65 year old woman but thinks she'll die if she gets it. She won't get it by the way, because she does what vulnerable populations should do and completely isolates herself.
I was my Mom's caretaker until she died last May because she lived in a Republican enclave of folks refusing to wear masks because the President told them not to. The whole little community got sick and died at appalling rates. What I wouldn't give to still have a mother in a state of panic.
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If Pie was TOWN and actually believed that either Chris or Supa was scum than he would used JUSTICE to see if one of them matched him or not. Instead, he (falsely) claims to check my alignment because he is SCUM and needed to self confirm himself and already knew that Chris and Sup were TOWN
If Sup were scum he would have NK'd last night for sure. I don't know Chris well enough to say but withholding a NK and hoping to buy cred next DP is def a Pie move.
I'm still heavy on PIe.
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@ILikePie5
-> @oromagiNot one of them says "You win with the Town"This part was paraphrase. I’m just talking about PM structure. Only name, role, mechanics, and affiliation is mentioned in my role and Supa’s role
Yeah, but you invented a wincon when nobody has a wincon.
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@ILikePie5
-> @oromagiDon't be so gullible. Look at Whiteflame's PM a the top of this DP. Whiteflame is VANILLA but gets a detailed PM. The justification is not explicit but obvious. All the revealed PMs conform with Chris and mine style.Mine and Supa’s PMs are designed as I mentioned in the question I asked you.
totally out of place against the other 6/8 of PMs
Unseen PMs that don't match with the four PMs we've seen is not a TOWN tell- that just increases the scum likelihood. The fact that you sus Chris for having a PM that sounds like most others is also sus.
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--> @oromagiSimple Yes or No question: Does your PM say just thisYou are Benjamin Banneker. You are the Watcher. You win with the Town
This style of PM is totally out of keeping with all four revealed PMs. Not one of them says "You win with the Town" all contain some biographical detail that syncs with ROLE without any explicit connection.
If this is what you are claiming your PM looks like then MisterChris's PM matches TOWNS way, way, way more than yours or Supa's.
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@Vader
Btw it's 99% Chris at this point. I know I do not have a justification. If Chris doesn't and he's town that's bastard modding.
Don't be so gullible. Look at Whiteflame's PM a the top of this DP. Whiteflame is VANILLA but gets a detailed PM. The justification is not explicit but obvious. All the revealed PMs conform with Chris and mine style.
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@ILikePie5
sorry, I accidentally deleted all my PMs with Danielle this morning. I've asked for a copy of my PM
-> @oromagiSimple Yes or No question: Does your PM say just thisYou are Benjamin Banneker. You are the Watcher. You win with the Town
No. Mine was more detailed but didn't explicitly draw a connection between Banneker's achievements and the WATCHER role.
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@ILikePie5
I chose myself and Oro, Danielle said we have the same affiliation meaning there 100% is a Godfather or Lawyer in this game.
Let's note that PIe waited until I reported to report his results. So we are to believe that Pie chose not to investigate Supa and himself or Chris and himself to check alignment, rather he chose me and himself to improve his cred. He has already said that he thought of me as TOWN so why investigate the towniest remainder?
Increased probability Pie is scum by this claim.
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VTL Pie
- As I said last DP, if whiteflame flipped innocent, Pie was next lynch
- Let's recall that croc made no contribution after bringer flipped scum. I assume that Croc just didn't want to play as lone scum
- Pie took over with character claim in place so he more or less was stuck with some kind of judge claim
- fortunately for Pie, we had already verified some customized roles
- however, both custom roles built on an actual mafia role name.
- if JUSTICE has ever been a mafia role, I find no evidence.
- Pie will now argue that Chris or Supa are godfather or elsewise modified in alignment
- Which is not an impossible scenario
- However, the choice of chris and supa in NP1 didn't make much sense in terms of gameplay
- but the choice made a lot of sense for Pie- since such a claim framed whiteflame
- So, weighing in the balance the likelihood that croc hit on supa or chris as scum with alignment concealed in DP1 vs. Pie making a convenient and effective false claim in DP3, I am consider Pie as scum far more likely. Would croc more likely check out as TOWN with a investigation result unreported or as lone scum too intimidated to proceed? I buy the later more.
- 2 Investigative roles might be OP for a weakish 8 player game.
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I watched MisterChris, no result.
oromagi- B. Banneker WATCHER
X>Speedrace - C.H. Houston LAWYER (special)
X>ILikePIe5- C. Gittens BODYGUARD (elite)
X>whiteflame- C. Colvin VANILLA
TOWN
MisterChris- D. Ellington VANILLA
SupaDudz- M.P. Johnson VANILLA
CrocoPie - C. B. Motley JUSTICE (special)
SCUM
X>Bringerofrain L. Farrakhan GOON
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@sadolite
How many years will you continue to insist that restaurant employees wash their hands before handling your food?
As long as we are very confident that certain easy basic hygienic practices can prevent disease and death then those practices will always seem like a good idea. Doctors have been wearing masks in surgery for 70-80 years and will probably continue to do so for another century. In Asia, voluntary,permanent mask wearing saw a major increase after the first SARS epidemic. Successful prevention of deadly diseases will always be a compelling reason to adopt certain health measures in certain situations.
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oromagi- B. Banneker WATCHER
X>Speedrace - C.H. Houston LAWYER (special)
X>ILikePIe5- C. Gittens BODYGUARD (elite)
TOWN
Crocodile - C. B. Motley JUSTICE (special)
MisterChris- D. Ellington VANILLA
SupaDudz- M.P. Johnson VANILLA
whiteflame- C. Colvin VANILLA
SCUM
X>Bringerofrain L. Farrakhan GOON
- I don't like Ellington or Johnson as matches for VANILLA but I assume at least one is true making either more likely.
- I don't think anybody calls Ellington the GODFATHER of jazz and I doubt Johnson as GODFATHER even less
- still, no reason to believe the character claims as that field is wide open
- nor is there any reason not to suppose a custom role with godfather-like capacities or some other alignment distortion.
- The choice of Supa and Chris as targets for investigation NP1 seems sus, but who knows what Croc was thinking now.
- A Croc bailout seems a likely explanation for long DP2.
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Harlem
What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore—
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over—
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?
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@ILikePie5
I want to wait till I get a response from Danielle about how affiliation manipulating roles impact my results, because Godfather makes sense for this setup.
What was MOD's response?
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@ILikePie5
I figured I was most likely target. If scum did not visit me, whiteflame seemed next most likely target. I should have anticipated a doc or bg but having seen GOON my sense was already that this was a more low power game and I didn't think there was much out there to protect.
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@ILikePie5
I figured he was second most likely lynch after myself.
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well, its either whiteflame or a gambit by Pie to get us to eliminate whiteflame, in which case we should have another opportunity to lynch him out.
VTL whiteflame
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I note that when I wik'd Motley, her most obvious role was JUDGE.
If we believe Pie and trust his data regarding DP1, then I guess we lynch whiteflame.
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@ILikePie5
I watched whiteflame and nobody visited him.
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NP2, I’m guessing Croc didn’t submit an action, which is why the NP was so long
Can you ask specifically?
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I think I am within conventional wisdom when I say that Yang is a technocrat.
New Republic
Unlike the rest of the Democrats, Yang is not fighting for the honor of being the most left-wing candidate on stage. He’s not even especially progressive. He is, ultimately, a technocrat, with a complex explanation for every problem and a corresponding, carefully developed policy solution, which is more feasible in some cases than in others.
Democratic Socialists of America:
Nor without irony, it seems, is the ascendance of wealthy technocrat and 2020 Democratic presidential candidate Andrew Yang in otherwise left-leaning circles.
Reuters:
The 44-year-old entrepreneur, philanthropist and self-described nerd launched his long-shot bid more than a year ago, centered on a proposal to give every American $1,000 a month in cash. Since then, he has rolled out more than 100 policy ideas, a technocratic approach rivaled in sheer wonkiness perhaps only by that of U.S. Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts among the Democratic candidates seeking the 2020 nomination.
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@n8nrgmi
way too early to say. Ten days ago I might have said Ted Cruz was one of the few candidates that stood a chance of absorbing a large portion of Trump voters. Trump has to wait for Biden's decision- he won't run against Biden but wants to run against Harris. Trump's fiscal, medical, and legal status are total wildcards at this point.
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@n8nrgmi
When Pete and Andrew Yang were doing that promotional tour last summer they really made me wish they were the ticket- smart technocrats focused on what works.
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@Crocodile
2 hrs until you are replaced
Pls. claim role now.
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oromagi- B. Banneker WATCHER
X>Speedrace - C.H. Houston LAWYER (special)
X>ILikePIe5- C. Gittens BODYGUARD (elite)
TOWN
whiteflame- C. Colvin VANILLA
Crocodile - C. B. Motley
MisterChris- D. Ellington VANILLA
SupaDudz- M.P. Johnson VANILLA
SCUM
X>Bringerofrain L. Farrakhan GOON
Marcia P Johnson would slap you in the face for calling her vanilla.
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@Bringerofrain
I am sorry to hear about your cat. I always hated cats but then I was forced to take one in and she last for 22 years. She was truly the worst and meanest of cats but she was always nice to me and I miss her now she's gone.
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@MisterChris
I'm withholding that info in the hopes of counterclaim.
Do you have an opinion regarding claiming your claims?
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