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@ILikePie5
*shrug* didn’t notice the post where Bullish said he JK’d him that phase. Honestly, even if I had, I would have been second guessing the hell out of any decision I made.
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@Lunatic
Well, GG. I’ll be second-guessing the affiliations of confirmed roles for a while. And GG to Elm for throwing that wrench in the mix. If I’d have gone with the Cop for NP1, it wouldn’t have worked so well.
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I’m honestly confused. How did Elm know I tracked him?
Otherwise, yeah, guess my inexperience with a mafia mason worked against me. Wasn’t expecting that.
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Well, at this point, I think the only possible target is Earth. I copped him innocent, but it’s likely that he has some role that gave a false result. He didn’t understand his own role until far too late, and he was around but didn’t hop on the lynch of Elm. Don’t see how GP could be scum, so:
VTL Earth
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@Bullish
Yeah I jailed supa
Yay for verification!
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@Vader
Dude, calm down. The inactivity element is honestly the least of my reasons to sus you right now, and I'm the only one who has mentioned it, so I don't know why you're flying off the handle about it.
But hey, while we wait for Bullish to arrive, simple question: where you RB'd? You now seem to acknowledge that you were now, though earlier you seemed to sus me just for anticipating it.
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@Greyparrot
How did Elm know you were a tracker?
The same way he knew he was being JK'd (he also said he was separately RB'd, but he was the scum RB): scum likely have a Watcher who watched Elm during NP1.
I also have 1 more recruit left if I am able to. Also just so you guys know, I can recruit mafia, but I really don't think Bullish is scum behavior-wise.
Would've been nice to know this sooner, since I had already mentioned that Mason Recruiters generally are automatically killed when they try to recruit mafia. Still, I don't think that Elm would have announced that he was the target of a JK without there actually being a JK in the game, and since Bullish hasn't been CC'd, I have a hard time believing he's scum.
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@Earth
@Greyparrot
@Bullish
Guys, it's very simple. I sincerely do not care if you lynch me or Supa at this point. That will leave you with 3 town and 1 scum. As long as Bullish jailkeeps the person you don't choose to lynch, the game is over during either this DP or the next one. I think the evidence stacks up far stronger against Supa, but you can all determine that for yourselves.
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@Vader
It's still convenient that you never got to weigh in on Elm before he was lynched, regardless of the reason for it.
Lynching Speed was entirely appropriate at that point. We had claims from everyone and good reason to believe that his claim was suspect. Holding off on hammering at that point to get in some more analysis was pointless without having another clear target to consider. If you had something to add, you should have done so when you posted, but instead you kept pushing the same suspicions everyone else was, just without the vote to back it. I wouldn't have been surprised if you had hammered based on what you wrote, but we'd likely be in the same boat we are now. Considering my normal MO is to be more passive as scum (something for which I've been called out multiple times), it's actually pretty funny that you think my hammering him speaks to my being scum. This isn't the first time I've hammered based on information like this, and when I do, I'm always town.
I know you've been RB'd because Bullish said that was his intention at the end of the last DP. I doubt he changed his mind, but if anything, the fact that you're so stand-offish about it just proves my point that you're trying to push any attention off yourself.
I'm not just a 1X Tracker (though, hey, glad you're suddenly taking an interest in sussing me now that you're the only other target of suspicion). My role is an investigative JOAT that includes a 1X Tracker.
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@Vader
Considering that you were well aware that we targeted Elm specifically because he voted to hammer MC (wasn't the actual hammer, but functionally makes little difference), it makes nothing but sense that you would hold off on hammering Speed to look as innocent as possible. That's not much of a defense at this point.
You were also entirely absent during the DP2 when we lynched Elm. I was the first vote on him at the start of the DP, not to mention I'm the only claimed Tracker and Elm straight up confirmed the existence of a Tracker and JK to shield himself.
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Well, seems like this is pretty obvious. Bullish JK'd Supa and there was no NK. Guess that could just be really effective strategizing by someone else, but like I said during the last DP, I'd have to either believe that GP and Bullish are working together on an extremely effective con job, or that something weird has been up with Earth. Still, might believe the latter if not for one factor: I'm actually the investigative JOAT. My character is the whole Bill Hodges trilogy, and I have already used both my 1X Tracker and 1X Cop, with the latter having been used on Earth during NP2. I still have a 1X Forensic Investigator (I can target a dead player and find out who they visited), but I haven't had much occasion to use it, since Elm never visited anyone before he got lynched (tracked him during NP1), Speed and MC didn't visit anyone, and getting info on who Pie visited during NP1 would have been pointless.
Only leaves one.
VTL Supa
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@Speedrace
Then that makes my decision easy.
VTL Speed
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@Speedrace
Why do people always say this like I have some magic words that'll convince you not to lynch me
Because I've already given you another person who could be (and currently is) my vote. If there's good reason to shift attention to Supa that I haven't already mentioned, that would be the instance where you could change my mind. If you don't have anything, then I'll just shift my vote and we'll be done with it.
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@Speedrace
You're at L-1. Any reason I shouldn't pull the trigger?
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@Speedrace
I got Grey to vote him, and he only voted himself because he was at L-1 and figured someone would see what I said and vote him, so 3/5 of that wagon was all mePlus the wagon was going away before I got on
A) Not particularly difficult to get GP to vote for someone.
B) I wouldn't say that the wagon was going away. It was still a relatively short DP and others hadn't weighed in yet by the time you'd posted.
C) You didn't influence Elm's vote for himself. You know he does this all the time.
D) Even if I believed all this, we all know you have a history of bussing your scum partners. I've been a party to that myself. This doesn't make it less likely that you are scum - it plays directly to your meta.
I'm The Shining, I'm a 1x amnesiac which means I can steal a role from the graveyard, I haven't stolen one yet
Seems odd that both Doctor Sleep and The Shining are in this game together, but setting that side, this sounds like a modified Amnesiac. The role I'm seeing includes taking not just the role, but the character, affiliation and win condition of the person. What's the justification?
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@Vader
Ah, I see it. Should've remembered that you posted it earlier. Any particular reason you selected me as your target twice?
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@Vader
@Speedrace
Either of you going to just claim already or are we going to have to push you?
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@Vader
There's no way that a town doc + mafia RB + jailkeeper + hider exist in a game. I am technically CC'ing Bullish on his claim because it would throw balance off
Dude, just think about this for a second. GP is a Mason Recruiter. He recruited Bullish. As I recall, trying to recruit scum would have resulted in his death. So, in order for you to be correct, GP and Bullish would have to be colluding on this. Not saying that's not possible, but if you have good reason to sus GP, present it.
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So... I know that this is me buying into the "That One Voter" section a little hard, but for those who do want votes on their debates, there's a limit to how many I can do, but I do get to debates on which people ask me to vote. Not saying it's a guarantee, but voting is pretty much all I'm doing these days on the site, and I'm embracing it.
If you are interested, just PM me.
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@Bullish
I don’t know what makes you think this is solved. I get that Speed’s inflating his importance in Elm’s lynch, but Wehave as much reason to sus Supa, since he was conveniently absent during all of DP2. Would really like to get both of their claims, so I’m happy to push them for those claims, but I don’t see a solid reason to select one over the other.
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@Speedrace
I was the one that pointed out that he lied, which got people to vote and hammer him
Dude, he hammered himself, and by the point that you’d pointed out that the RB wouldn’t have allowed him to know who visited him, a wagon was already building on him. Not saying you didn’t play a role, but don’t pretend you were the lynchpin (pun intended) here.
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@Earth
Apparently I misread. Thought I saw an earlier post from Speed. Alright, switching it up.
Unvote
VTL Supa
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Alright, so now that I've got a little more information, it's about time we had some analysis of the remaining players, something we haven't gotten to do in any of the previous DPs. It's likely that we only have one scum left, though it's possible that we're dealing with a TP as well.
Assuming that GP isn't lying and he recruited Bullish, that would town-confirm both of them. While it's possible that we're dealing with a cult leader masquerading as a mason, but I'll set that aside for the moment.
Earth would have been my target as well. The Beloved Princess role screams safe claim. More importantly, he's having some trouble explaining how it works. He straight up denied that the role matched the one MC quoted in DP1, and yet in DP2, he basically said that half of that quote was absolutely accurate. He'd be my vote if not for two problems: 1) the un-CC'd Carrie claim still makes it difficult to believe that he's scum, since I find it hard to believe that Carrie wouldn't be in this game and I don't think that Earth would try to pass that character off as a different role, particularly one as suited as this one, and 2) Elm was pushing him pretty hard in the last DP when he wasn't already a target of suspicion, which would be an odd choice for bussing. Bullish also just told us that he couldn't have committed the NK, since he was JK'd.
That just leaves me, Speed and Supa. I do want claims from both Speed and Supa. What makes Speed stand out to me was that he posted shortly after the start of DP2. Given how quick the turnaround was for NP1, it's likely that both scum were active.
VTL Speed
As for me, I'll just claim: I'm Mr. Mercedes. I used my 1X Tracker (Hodges is tracking down Brady in the book) in DP1 to track Elm. The reason I'm giving up this information is that Elm somehow knew that I did this, despite his role including no such ability. If I had to guess, the other scum has some kind of Watcher-esque role that they used to make this determination.
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Alright, back at it, and with Elm gone, we may actually be able to take some time to discuss this round. Anyone have any results this round?
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@gugigor
That One Voter (if Feature 1 fails)Occasionally you will get that one somewhat quality debate where the opponent *doesn't* forfeit. But sadly most voters are too lazy to read debates and will result in a no-vote tie. That's when our hero -- one of the top debaters as well -- Whiteflame comes to save the day, almost always willing to judge any debates! Just learn how to get on his good side and what he values, and you'll win most of your debates. Maybe this website should be called convince_whiteflame.com instead.
Hmmm... can't say I've ever gotten him to vote on one of my debates. Wouldn't put it past him to collude with debaters, though. Guy's a menace.
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@Earth
That sounds like the normal Beloved Princess, just without the loss of the NP that usually results from an NK on you. Are you sure that is not a part of it?
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@Elminster
Like I said, since his role as Beloved Princess by his own admission differs from the one we're familiar with, I can't say whether it was a poor decision to claim early. That being said, even if I assume it's anti-town, that doesn't necessarily mean he's scum. I'd be more inclined to agree with you, though, if he said that his role as Beloved Princess was identical to the one stated by MC. If he's giving himself an out for not being NK'd, he's not being clear about it.
I'm familiar with that game setup, though no, I don't believe that giving ever role in the game away makes this an easy fake claim. Again, what I find hard to believe is that Carrie is an un-CC'd character claim. It's possible that the character claim is just his actual character and he's still scum, though I don't view it as the most likely explanation. Not saying that nothing about Earth stands out (being the hammer certainly does that), but I don't see how that makes him stand out any more than you, and I don't have enough of a claim from you to be able to make me see you as likely town, since nothing about your role indicates that you are town. I'm sure you want to claim that you did it knowing that MC was already dead, though that will be the third time you've changed your story.
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@Elminster
So you're saying that Mafia is somehow aware of several if not every other character roles in the game prior to anyone claiming? I find that hard to believe.
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@Elminster
I have a hard time believing that, in the absence of a given fake claim, scum would straight up claim one of the most popular works of Stephen King. Not sure how they'd feel safe to do that with no other claims on the table.
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@Elminster
It's Carrie. The role almost definitely exists in this game and no one has CC'd him, meaning that there are two options: either he is as he claims, or it's a fake claim given to scum. I don't dismiss the second possibility, but I don't agree that the claim is too perfect, largely because it's been a point of some contention in past games. If anything has me a bit on edge, it's that his role functions differently from how MC put it during the last DP, though even that just has me more confused than anything, since that's the only version of the role I've been aware of.
As for his intent, I think his goal was to show his involvement early (he's been the target previously for taking a backseat). It's an odd thing to claim straight up because I think it's kind of anti-town to let scum know that, but I'm also unclear about how his role works, so I can't say that I know for sure how this reveal affects the game.
you can visit now!
Would be happy to! We're all settled out here, and we've got a puppy now. Still meaning to visit the Atlanta area.
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@Elminster
Well, regardless, I hope the move goes well. Been through enough of those to know how rough they can be, no matter how long you string them out.
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@Bullish
Ah, didn't realize there was a missing vote. Regardless, I have a harder time believing that Earth is scum based on his claim.
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@Bullish
Chris was Popular, so no, it was Elm. Earth was vote #6.
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@Elminster
I am mafia and the rb, or jk stopped the nkI am town and jk targeted me thinking I was mafia , and mafia tried to nk meMafia waived
For someone who didn’t care and is way too busy moving, I’m surprised you’re posting this much.
I’d believe the third scenario before the second. I’d sooner believe that another protective role saved someone else and that you were never the target of an NK. The fact that you hammered made you an obvious target for a lynch this DP, and I have a hard time believing that scum would actively sacrifice you as a target just to prevent you from using what was an unknown role.
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@Elminster
*sigh* Dude, I've had issues with your play before, but this is something else. Not surprised, just frustrated.
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...Seriously? You were actively seeking the lynch because you didn't want to bother? If your goal is to actively torpedo yourself, you're doing an awfully good job of it, especially considering that you've now admitted that you were the target of two RBs and there was no NK.
But hey, if he's asking for it, let's give the man what he wants. Don't know why he joined if he's in the middle of moving, but if he wants out, I'm inclined to give him the out.
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Alright, so not sure why Elm decided to vote when it would exceed the number required to test MC, nor why Earth decided to do so without immediately unvoting because that could have prevented this outcome as well. Waste of a lynch. Can't tell if scum just decided they were fine with the free lynch and didn't want to go for anything or if a protective role was actually effective, but this seems like the obvious choice to me:
VTL Elm
Why didn't you check to see the number of votes before adding yours?
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Alright, let's get into this. Not sure how much time I'll have today to commit, but I'll try to get involved whenever possible.
That being said, I heard a quote once from Woody Allen: "eighty percent of success is just showing up." I'll add to Pie's pressure to work our way up to that, especially given Speed's last game where this became an issue.
VTL Speed
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Well, that was disappointing.
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@ILikePie5
Are they holding cards in both hands like WF?
Just to clarify, she is holding one card in one hand, namely her left hand. Not sure if there’s something to the holding of cards, given Supa’s image. Won’t reveal my character just yet, though I would like some info on your picture.
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@ILikePie5
She appears calm, leaning slightly to her right with her head resting on two fingers (middle and ring) that touch her cheek bone.
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@ILikePie5
Girl in red uniform, short skirt (because of course) breaking the fourth wall and holding up a card. The card appears to be black and white, with the black coming in swirls aside from a solid border. She's seated in a blue room.
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@Bullish
Unvote
VTL Bullish
Tag, you're it.
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@ILikePie5
Given the lack of activity, yeah, I can get behind this.
VTL Earth
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