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Well, as one of the resident anime fans, I can honestly say that I know very little about this one. Still, I'll do my best to pick apart the theme from what I do know and from the information we've been given.
Also, good to be back at this. Long trip these last few days and I'm getting over some jet lag, but all is well.
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@RationalMadman
If you’re fine with me being entirely absent that night, sure. I’ll be flying back home and arriving late enough that I won’t bother hopping into any D1 discussion.
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@RationalMadman
If this starts up Thursday next week, I’ll join.
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@Vader
I was gonna put Demon Slayer on there, but the animation is beautiful in Demon Slayer, I think it sets a high bar for animation. I definitely think it's a starter show Demon Slayer. but later on.I agree with your MHA analysis. The only reason I added it is because it's baseline shonen that doesn't add anything unique. It's sort of a baseline representation of shonen, and I feel like that can help people appreciate other shonen more.
Demon Slayer might be where I'd tell someone to go next after MHA, so I agree with that. And yeah, I'd say that if we're only considering what's animated so far, MHA is entirely baseline Shonen.
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@Vader
It does Shonen right, but doesn't add anything unique to it.
Not so sure I agree, though I think it takes a while to add something unique. What makes it not work as well for me is just comparing with other modern Shonen (which, I’ll admit, probably isn’t super fair). Other series like Jujutsu Kaisen and Kimetsu no Yaiba just took the basic shonen formula and polished it to perfection, using their own personal quirks to twist it a little along the way. I feel that MHA lacked meaningful quirks (ironic, I know) and just wasn’t as polished. It’s good, but it feels conventionally good up to a point. It’s finding its footing and polishing itself up, just taking its time getting there.
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@Theweakeredge
I think that the newer arcs of MHA in the manga make the anime even better, the war arc is probably one of the better war arcs in shounen, and the time-skip with Deku is very good thus far.
MHA has come into its own, I’ll give it that. And it’s not like AoT started off as great as it ended up being (didn’t take as long, though - MHA really dragged for quite a while before getting somewhere truly interesting), so I give a lot of leeway to the series, especially given that the upcoming arcs are good and add a lot to the series. That being said, I think it’s early for me to call a solid comparison. MHA went through a big transition and it remains to be seen how well it will handle things.
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@Undefeatable
Most of my arguments about moral/scientific points can be found in this forum:
I’d say the key reason I give for supporting abortion rights has to do with pragmatism regarding how that would change the legal structure and the degree of harm that change would cause. I could dig into them if you’re interested, but it’s been a long day, so I’ll leave it here.
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@Undefeatable
It'll take a bit to break it down, I can do that after work.
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@Benjamin
I am studying science.
Which one(s)?
I am eager to try to debate some moral questions. I like religious and scientific debates a lot, but it might get tiresome.
Yeah, religious debates have never been for me. I love scientific debates, but they're few and far between (at least, the ones I'm interested in are).
My greatest strength as a debater, I think, is the critique of sources and arguments. I find it easy to pinpoint the underlying assumptions of an argument and attack the foundation of my opponent's case. I think it is actually called Kritik. My greatest weakness is my focus on rebutting everything. I end up "destroying" my opponent's case simply to find out that voters only cared about a few key arguments and their impact. Had I actually made a solid positive case, I might win more often. Instead, I get dragged into a loop of endless critique. I guess anyone with good debating skills could pull out a red herring on me without me even noticing. LOL.
I think you do manage that well. And yes, Kritiks are responses to underlying assumptions, one that's usually highly formalized, but can focus on more than just what the debater is arguing. You can Kritik the implications of a resolution, the world at large, or the contents of the room in which you reside (some of those get super goofy). And yeah, I'm still trying to pull away from line-by-line responses. Still default to them every now and then. Knowing where to put your focus is one of the harder things to learn as a debater, but it's something you pick up with time and effort.
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@Benjamin
What are you majoring in at your college?
Do you have any debate topics/topic areas you've been eager to try? What do you feel are your strengths and weaknesses as a debater?
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@RationalMadman
Over. Finished, at least insofar as my role in the game is ended.
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Honestly depends when this starts. If it's sooner, then I can do it. If it's not done by next Monday, though, that'll be a problem.
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@RationalMadman
Dude, I would have loved a mass character claim because I probably knew these characters better than anyone else and I could have gleaned quite a bit from them. Unfortunately, if I had pushed for one in DP1, a) there was a tremendous amount of pushback from other players (particularly coal), b) I probably would have been scum read immediately for doing it, no matter how I justified it, and c) I still wouldn't have figured out the "Dragneels being scum" split in this game. Best case scenario, we would have gotten fake claims from both Oro (it looks like he was gearing up to do this initially with his soft claiming Hider) and Speed, which wouldn't have given us intel on the Dragneel split. Hell, if Oro had done this right and claimed Natsu from the start, even with Speed's faulty claim, then I probably would have lynched FT before Oro because of the bad fake role claim. Oro may have gotten hit eventually, but he would have gotten more cover, not less, from being forced to claim his actual character.
As for arranging night actions, you do realize that straight up telling scum everything that we're going to do ends up giving them opportunities to modify their strategy to counter that, right? I guess it would depend on their roles, but with the ones they had and just knowing who the targets of the Cop and Watcher were, they could have done a lot to fuck us over.
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@RationalMadman
Also, if I was cool with a lynch on you, why did I never vote to lynch you? If this is what you scum read me for, a single post responding to Coal, then yeah, I find that pretty odd when none of my behaviors or subsequent posts suggested I would go forward with it.
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@RationalMadman
I said, and clarified later, that I was cool with a lynch on Earth. If his post was about you, then I misinterpreted his post, hence the later clarification, which you appeared to have missed.
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@RationalMadman
Beyond that, saying who would have been on the same side clearly doesn’t make a difference here, since Natsu, the main character of the series and someone who is clearly allied with Fairy Tail, was scum. I didn’t think there would be an easy heroes/villains split to this game, hence my trepidation over claims that seemed borderline, but I did not anticipate that Natsu of all characters would be scum. Seriously missed opportunity for Oro to just claim his character and make up JOAT roles to appear town.
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@RationalMadman
Jellal would always be on the same side as Erza (and Erza on the same side as Doranbolt) in almost all conceivable themes.This was a huge factor in why I really didn't like the bandwagon on Earth and why I never pushed on FT after I understood the basic idea of fairy tail characters.
I would have had more reason to buy the Jellal claim if there was any reason to believe that couples were a thing in this game - I only became privy to that when Luna claimed. At the time that Earth claimed Jellal, that was unclear, and considering that he is the only character on this list (minus Zeref) who was never in the Fairy Tail guild, I stand by my reading of it as a fake claim at that time. Doranbolt also stood out for different reasons, but I won’t revisit those. Nonetheless, I never scum read you, despite your claims that I was pushing for a lynch on you. I just thought your claim was the second most suspect of the first 4 we got during DP1. Erza was practically as safe a character claim as you could get, so FT was the most town read by me at the end of DP1, and Mirajane just made too much sense for me to dismiss. You were the largely in-CC’d cop (like I said, didn’t buy the day cop claim), so I slightly town read you by the end of DP1.
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Hey, funnily enough, Coal RBing me ended up being really good because I would have seen FT visiting RM and no one else. Would definitely have pushed for a lynch on him if I had, so well done there, even though it wasn’t the aim.
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@ILikePie5
On a side bit note, I told y’all FT can’t have a day cop. Bastard got lucky af
Yeah, I was 90% certain his role claim was fake as fuck, especially after he said he tried to put armor on someone after using the day cop. Role did not make any sense whatsoever. Still, the Erza character claim was too ballsy for me to push a lynch and made me think he was just covering for a different role. He was nearly confirmed town to me despite the ridiculous role claim.
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Well, that was incredibly frustrating. At least my reads were dead on, but seriously, having both Speed and Oro disappear from the game was ridiculous. What makes this all the more upsetting is that, if Oro has claimed Natsu early, I would have strongly town read him throughout the game.
And, yeah, pretty weak fake claim, Speed. There are better characters to claim as Hider, even without Oro’s soft claim to challenge yours. If you’d claimed in DP1, you would have been the easy lynch for me. Was surprised you didn’t fake claim Makarov, Laxus or Gajeel, but especially without the latter apparently being in the game (would’ve gotten interesting if Oro claimed Gajeel), I had no reason to buy a Levy claim. We already knew Gray and Juvia (not hard to figure out she was tied to me) here, so the only way Levy would have been here is if it was as part of what is one of the only other canon pairings in the series.
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Well, fuck town I guess. Second game in a row where people just can't be bothered.
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@Lunatic
@MisterChris
@FourTrouble
I don't get it, either, and in about an hour, we're going to No Lynch. Apparently, Luna is so certain in his pick that he'd rather things end up that way, and FT is just unwilling to do anything that doesn't involve voting for Oro. But hey, I'll include them on this post anyway in hopes that one of them will resolve this DP with an actual lynch. Not that I'm holding my breath...
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This really shouldn’t be hard. We need one more vote, and Luna seems unwilling to change his mind. Not sure why FT decided to bug out for the majority of this discussion, or why he keeps checking in without actually doing anything meaningful, but this is getting ridiculous.
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@ILikePie5
I’m gonna cry if scum are FT and Coal.
Yeah, I’d be pretty upset if that were true. The fact that Speed and Oro have been absolutely absent throughout so much of this just makes it impossible to get anything done, and having two scum who are highly active would just make that a recipe for disaster.
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@Lunatic
@oromagi
@Speedrace
@MisterChris
@FourTrouble
At this stage, we'd need someone else regardless. Not sure why no one else has chosen to vote or comment, but here we are. Can't do a whole lot with so many people inactive.
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@Lunatic
I’m not convinced that Speed’s absent-ness puts him in either camp. Not sure what his deal is, but he’s likely busy. Wouldn’t be surprised if he came up with this on the fly, have a harder time believing that it’s real.
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Just got in from a flight, feeling pretty exhausted, but I'll give my two cents before signing off.
I'm not sure why so much of the discussion is focused on this when the entirety of Pie's argument is based on what happens if Speed flips town. I can understand why each of you want something, but honestly, I think we're pretty locked in when it comes to who we're lynching tonight unless Speed decides to come on and suddenly vindicate himself. I would definitely like to hear from Oro at some stage, but regardless of his claim, I think the current lynch target makes sense. I'm sure there will be a lot of discussion on this very topic if Speed flips town, but how about we wait and see if that happens before we make it a big deal? Rather not waste our time with town in-fighting if it isn't necessary.
As for what I think should happen, I'm willing to wait a bit longer to get Oro's claim, but he was on 4 hours ago and didn't post here. Not sure what's up on his end, but I say we wait until tomorrow morning. If he claims, then great, we have that information to ponder over for the next DP. If he doesn't, then best to wait until the start of the next DP to pressure him.
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@Nevets
There are so many forums that have already involved extensive discussion of this topic. Don't need another one.
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Alright, so I can at least verify that I was RB'd during the previous NP. I'm not sure what we stand to gain by outing my role without giving me a chance to use it at this stage, especially given that we've narrowed down our target for the NK to Coal or Speed and given that my having been RB'd makes it all the likelier that I'm town since the NK went through, so I'll abstain from claiming and offer instead to claim at the start of the next DP. Regarding Coal's choice of targets, yeah, it does seem odd. I'm not sure why he'd target me specifically on the basis that I didn't have a power role (considering I hadn't claimed anything yet, I was a wild card at this point). Still, the character fits and the role makes sense for her. It's also a bit of an odd one, something that I don't think he would cook up as scum, so I'm keeping my vote on Speed for the time being.
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@FourTrouble
I personally think we have enough information to go off of on both fronts, but I think the information from the Dream is almost certainly real and I have a hard time doubting Luna’s and Coal’s character and role claims (pretty sure I know who Luna’s protecting). Seems to me like Speed is a far more obvious choice. I could see a case being made against MC and Oro, but Speed is out on his own here.
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@FourTrouble
So... do you just want me to ignore the results of the Pie's Dream?
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@Lunatic
Alright coal claimed. I am protector. I passively will protect a certain character. If they were to be targeted by a night kill I will die instead. I know who the person is and they are confirmed in my eyes.
Confirmed as town or as scum? Is the passive protection that you offer changed each NP?
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Alright. At least based on the likelihood of these characters existing as is within the game, I'm thinking Speed is the most sus at the moment. The Hider role feels a little off for her character, and Levy's just a much less likely character to be in the mix here than the other two. That may be at least somewhat influenced by the lack of justification, and I'd still like to see that from Speed. Even without a role claim, I'd say Luna is significantly less likely to be scum, and Coal is a distant third, so I'd say he's a secure town read.
If I had to guess who Speed's scum partner is, I'd be inclined towards Oro based on the claims made so far and the results of that Dream eliminating Luna from contention should Speed flip scum.
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@FourTrouble
whiteflame, same question. You assumed it was a fake result. Why?
Because Day Cop is often a fake claim and marrying it to the Erza character claim sounded pretty ludicrous to me, given what I know of the character. Still seems odd and still having trouble understanding your role.
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@FourTrouble
I tried to protect RM last night by giving him an armor. I wasn't told what the armor does, but looks like it didn't work.
Could you please clarify again how your role works? You get items and PRs that you can change every DP? Also, might be a good idea to check with Supa directly on what the armor was supposed to do.
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@Lunatic
Juvia Lockser.
A more likely character choice than Levy, though strangely she is not mentioned in my character description. Not sure whether to read that as an omission by Supa to prevent some minor confirmation of other character claims (doesn’t seem to be the case, based on Jellal’s description) or as problematic for the claim, but I have a harder time scrutinizing this one.
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@Speedrace
I'm ok with claiming, but I want to point out that this was my exact same character and role in Supa's last gameI'm Levy McGarden and I'm a hider, I hid behind Chris
Not terribly surprised about Lucy Heartfilia appearing in both games and being the same role. Would be a lot more surprised if Lucy was a fake claim.
Levy is a bit of a fringe choice. She doesn't feature super prominently in the anime, and doesn't really play an important role in the series. She's a member of the Fairy Tail guild, and is attached to a more prominent character romantically. The Hider role makes some sense for her, but it's also something we cannot verify unless someone was watching or tracking Speed last night.
Still, though I have my suspicions, I'd like to continue down the line after we get your justification.
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@ILikePie5
I would like to go Speed, then Coal, then Lunatic.
I agree with that order.
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@ILikePie5
Alright, that's one. Dreamer makes sense for her as well.
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Alright, didn't get tagged on this, but I just noticed it was up.
I'm personally interested in getting character claims. As we have now confirmed two characters (both of which I felt uncertain about, as neither really fits solidly into the Fairy Tail Guild camp) and as I feel there are only a couple of character claims left that I would not be surprised to see in this game, I think we could lot of information from getting the outstanding claims. Don't care much about roles (yet), but all this suggests that Town is all either Guild members or long-standing allies. I'm sure I'll get some pushback on a mass claim, but I think we stand to gain more from pursuing it at this stage than we do from putting down pressure on one or two people and hoping something comes up.
I'll start us off: I'm Gray Fullbuster (note: in my PM, it says "Grey Fillbuster", though that appears to be a misspelling). Among the characters in this series, there are 4 that I would consider to be main: Gray (me), Erza (FT), Natsu Dragneel and Lucy Heartfilia. Don't know who has those last two characters, but I would have a hard time believing that neither is in this game.
I'd be willing to explore other options if anyone has any solid leads, but for now, I'll put pressure on the person who was here and contributed least to the last DP. Would like at least a character claim.
VTL Speed
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@Benjamin
You’re not a bad debater. Records can only tell so much of the story, and you shouldn’t feel that your effectiveness as a debater is solely tied to them. You know how to present a logical and persuasive argument, you can do it on a variety of topics, and you don’t play it safe, going up against other skilled debaters on topics that may put you at a disadvantage with many voters, which is bound to yield some losses.
Try to look at every loss as an opportunity to hone your skills. Most of them should give you some practicable information on what you can do to improve. Take advantage of every opportunity, and no one can call you a bad debater.
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@Lunatic
Wouldn't say I've made much of a stink about it. It's frustrating, but it's not a reason for me to push for anything different than I have already.
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@Lunatic
Don't make me explain it to you. So far you, whiteflame and RM are all in the R/whoosh category.
Not sure what I missed. I'm on the same lynch wagon as you, and I found that RM's choice to claim cop to CC FT was similarly problematic.
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I'm caught up, and I still feel that the lynch on Earth makes the most sense. The only bit of doubt I have in that regard is that his claim came in his second post (his first post was a placeholder), but the fact that it came after FT says he day copped him means that he either really messed this up as town or he's scum. Like I said earlier, I also find it odd that his character choice (at least so far) is the only one who is not and has never been a member of the Fairy Tail guild. Based on my own character and the 3 others claimed, I'm currently inclined to believe that all town characters are Fairy Tail guild members, which lends some credence to RM's claim, but undercuts Earth's. I'm not sure how much to take from the hint with regards to the OP in Supa's first post, so I'll set aside my interpretations of that for now.
Much as I still have my grievances with RM's claim, I am still currently unwilling to lynch a non-CC'd cop and his behavior seems town to me. Luna's analysis is good, but I've seen him do this as town and as scum, so I'm neutral on him. Still unsure about Coal, but everything there is speculation. I would be interested in fielding more claims, but that's only because I'm focused on theme analysis and I'd like to verify what I think is going on.
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@RationalMadman
Pretty sure I mentioned my concerns with your claim already, but setting that aside, I was talking about lynching Earth, which I still support. Would love to get some clarification on that post I mentioned earlier.
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@coal
Happy to do it as well, just trying to understand the ramblings of a Madman.
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@RationalMadman
Vote Coal if you are not afraid to claim if he's a strong PR.
It seems like you were trying to say two different things at once here. Mind splitting them up?
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Anyway, I’ll be up in the air for the next couple of hours, so for now, my vote’s locked in.
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