Total posts: 6,549
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
@oromagi
Stormlight is pretty amazing, as is the Mistborn series by the same author, Brandon Sanderson. Also recommend the Old Kingdom trilogy from Garth Nix. I'm personally a big fan of the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan, but that one's a slog.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
Believe this one is a book series. Be happy to recommend some fantasy books if you're interested, but can't say I'm terribly familiar with TV shows of that variety.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
Look, bad jokes never stopped me from trying before. I won't be daunted!
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
TOWNLunaticwhiteflameMisterChrisAWoLSupadraftermanthat1userPieLikeMagicBullishWaterPhoenixSCUMSpeedrace
I approve of this list. Also, kinda want to do a Who's on first bit, given your character claim.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@David
Sounds good, looking forward to it.
Also, if anyone else joins, we can always pair them off for other debates.
Created:
Posted in:
Hey everyone! As the resident (only?) Jew in this game, I am appalled that I did not get a Hanukkah-related role. Must've gone to someone else...
Cool, got an innocent child in oromagi. Hopefully he'll be pretty active in discussions. Also, good to know there's no tailor.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Username
Then clearly, your opponents were doing it wrong.
But seriously, that’s disquieting. Makes it sound as though LD is going down a dark path. Used to be so focused on good speaking style, too.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Username
Yup, not terribly unusual for higher level debaters outside of LD and BP. Super common in Policy and NPDA, unfortunately. Don't like the speed tactics myself, but at least in our case, they were actually excellent debaters. Some people spread to cover for deficits in their own argumentation, which is incredibly frustrating.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Wagyu
That might be interesting, though I'd say that the actual debate portion should be the basis for any judging. It's nice to have that discussion on the end, but it kind of defeats the purpose of restricting speech times, which requires both debaters to be efficient. Nice to have, but more for better understanding than for determining a winner.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@seldiora
That's fine. You can always change up the tower, esp. for people who just aren't into it anymore.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@seldiora
Kinda defeats the purpose of a tower to have someone skip steps. Anyone who's starting in on this should start at the bottom.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Sum1hugme
He's been off for 9 days, so that may have happened, but it would have been recent. It's an option to still start someone on the tower and, if he returns, pick up where he left off.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@David
For those interested, the aim of these debates is to do something like this (and yes, you should vote on it if you get a chance):
Enjoyed the opportunity to kick off this set of live debates on the site with you, David!
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Speedrace
Yeah, I was pretty convinced on Draft, just couldn't rally enough people to the cause.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@MisterChris
Sounds like a good idea as long as we can make it work.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@MisterChris
I'd suggest keeping them separate. We can share thoughts, but I don't want us writing out a case as a threesome.
Created:
Posted in:
To clarify, I'm talking about prep for the debate ahead of time, and I meant Google Docs, not Google chats
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@seldiora
We can do that, though I'd suggest our Google chats (i.e. the ones between you and me and you and Chris) be separate, if only because I'd rather not have us be thinking along exactly the same lines since we'll be functioning as separate teams. Can (and almost certainly will) have some overlap, though.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@MisterChris
Alright, Con it is, then! Looking forward to it.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
Well, I'm glad you were seeing some good on that front. Improving little by little.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Username
Been there. First open tournament I ever did, we ran into one of the top rated teams in the country in the second round. It was a topic I knew extremely well, probably better than they did, but they cleaned our clocks.
Created:
Posted in:
Well, that happened. Would be nice if one of these games didn't start off with Mikal self-destructing, but I definitely got distracted by a few strange claims. And yeah, as Danielle said, I think it's kind of ridiculous that Draft got away with that in DP2. The only reason he did was because people were absolutely unwilling to commit to pushing him, and there were just too few of us trying to do that.
And yeah, Lunatic, there's still a lot I'm working on, here. Certainly could have done better at making a convincing case, though in this case, my targets likely would have been off anyway.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
Thought we’d get an update if we were close to the deadline...
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@MisterChris
I can do the 23rd. Been a while since I put in research into the Belt and Road Initiative, but I love it as a topic.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@David
If this goes over well, I recommend we try out some other styles. Policy might be a bit much, but PF and Parli are both viable options.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Username
Could do that. Not one of my personal favorites, but it's a solid debate, and we can have it be one of the rounds.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Barney
Don't disagree, just find the justification to be very strange for a fake claim. Maybe Supa wouldn't do this, but I'm not convinced just yet. Nonetheless, warren's my weakest town read. He's basically null since this is all I have to go on.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Danielle
Re: WP, I'm open to changing my mind on him, though at the moment, I don't see him as scummy. He apparently didn't act during the last NP (someone would almost certainly have said something about it at this point if he was lying), which may simply be him trying to show fake contrition, but I'm not sure. I do agree that, at least behaviorally, he's been a bit off, especially with his scum reads as you mentioned a few posts back.
Re: warren, it's only a very slight town read at this stage. I have so little information on him that the only thing I can go off of at this stage is his role claim, and the justification just comes off as something that a jaded fan would say. Makes me think that a fake claim doesn't really fit for him, if only because I think it's more likely that Supa wrote it than that a scum team designed a justification that puts down their own character.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Username
When you get a chance, would still like to get your picks on topics.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Danielle
Other thing to keep in mind is that we know MisterChris visited Speed in NP1. I don't think it's possible that he could both have roleblocked you and used an entirely separate role on Speed without it being the NK, though I could be wrong.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
I thought DART was an intellectual site
What huh?
Created:
Posted in:
Basic reads on others:
Slight Town:
WP (don't think it makes sense that he revealed himself as the redirector if he has scum partners)
Danielle (lots of uncertainty on her, can't say what she's up to, but her reads put her in either town or TP, and I'm leaning towards the former)
MisterChris (tracking in NP1 indicates that he's correct about his role as Speed still used his Dreamer that phase, indicating an investigator role)
Null
warren42 (reasons given above)
Possible TP
Pie (tracking in NP2 showed no movement, so he's not the mafia NK unless he's a ninja or the Serial Killer, but the role makes me think TP - decent chance of being scum)
Draft (reasons given earlier this phase - don't think he's scum, but his behavior leaves me thinking TP)
Scum
Ragnar (reasons given above)
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Danielle
I did give some idea of my thoughts earlier, though given that the NL is on the table, the new info from warren, and the discussion on Ragnar, I'll throw in my thoughts.
I don't have enough information on warren to make a solid call, but I read him as slight town based on his justification. It's not so much that I agree with it (honestly, it's a pretty weak reason to give Uraraka a vanilla role), but that's part of what's leaning me this way. I find it difficult to believe that scum would engineer this kind of justification to slip under the radar, especially with a vanilla role. I don't have enough behavioral info to say anything, so this is a pretty weak read.
So, the main question becomes whether I'm willing to lynch either Draft or Ragnar based on the information I have right now. I'd like to see some direct responses to the points we've been making over the last few posts about Ragnar's choice of target, which still doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It smacks of weak reasoning, and makes me think he was actively seeking someone who likely would not have a role to motivate. However, if he is scum, I don't know why he would choose not to pretend that he'd targeted his partner, and have them validate the claim. It would have also made more sense to target Speed and claim that he wanted to get another round of reads, but was stopped by the NK. Both would have given him better cover than this, though I think I would have been suspicious of the claim regardless. To me, his decision doesn't really make sense regardless of the side he's on, which may just be a function of his late work hours. In general, though, I think the behavior makes less sense as town than it does as mafia, especially as there were other more town-confirmed players with either claimed or suggested power roles to choose.
Long story short, I would be willing to lynch Ragnar at this stage on the basis of the given information. I don't think the NL is the better choice.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
Guys. This is all a farce. The DP ended last monthWith 8 players, it takes 5 to lynchYou have until 11/19/20 at 11:30CST
Supa's playing some 3D chess here.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@warren42
I'm Uraraka from My Hero Academia and I only care for money so I'm one dimensional as a character and vanilla
Ugh, this is a frustrating claim, largely because it's so negative to Uraraka, which I think is something the mod would do and not likely for a scum player. That being said, could easily be a fake claim given to him by the mod, but I can't read anything behaviorally aside from the long wait time. Pretty frustrating to have him wait so long to post after checking in, but I can't say it's a scum tell.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Danielle
Regarding who else visited Speed on NP1: WaterPhoenix was at least one other person who said they did. Speed clarified he got results on whiteflame NP1.
Correction: WP did not visit Speed on NP1. He visited Pie thinking he would target Speed with an unknown night action, and that resulted in a redirection of his NK to Croc. We might not believe their story, but that's the one that's been told.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
My primary issue with Ragnar is the choice of me as a target. At this stage in the game, he should have targeted someone he clearly thought was a Townie or waived. It is simply too risky to give Mafia a free action this late in the game.
I'm right there with you on this. Saying you were lynchproof made me scum read you, and the notion that he saw you as clearly town at that stage is perplexing to me. It makes sense that you would be town in retrospect, but going into the NP2, reading you as obviously town on the basis that you were a target of suspicion doesn't make much sense to me. I can understand not wanting to waste it on someone who was going to be NK'd, but the risks of motivating scum should have outweighed the risk of accomplishing nothing.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Barney
On that note, who else visited Speed NP1? Since you're accidently indicating he had successfully been visited and you had knowledge of it before today.
I don't think anyone else visited Speed, but I had knowledge that he was visited before today and I shared that. As Speed used his Dreamer on me and it produced a result that made him think I'm town (likely including the Tracker role), I believe that his result was accurate and therefore likely worked when visited, though I suppose that depends on how much you trust what I'm saying. I claimed that MisterChris visited someone, and when he said he visited Speed, I confirmed that that was consistent with my tracking, so Speed was definitely a target of at least one night action during NP1 (two if we believe Pie, which I do, though that was redirected). I wasn't aware that the Dreamer role risked modification to the results if they were visited while dreaming, so that's a wrinkle I hadn't considered.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
Yes, it is possible that I'm a scum tracker, so Speed's read of me following using Dreamer is not necessarily accurate. I guess it's up to you to decide whether I've been sus in other respects.
Just to clarify at this point, my suspicions have largely shifted to Ragnar. Danielle is making a number of good points, and since you did not confirm that Ragnar had visited you (a move you could have made if you were scum partners), that makes me less suspicious of you. The timing of your claim set me off, but I don't think the point was meaningful.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Danielle
At the time, I didn't have solid suspicions of anyone. About half of the field hadn't posted much (this was just after we swapped people out) and there were few claims on the table, so I based my choice on behavioral reads. I was initially going to choose Speed, but by the end of the DP, I had a slight town read on him. Pie was another possible target, and I wish I'd chosen him, but he didn't seem to be behaving any differently than normal. The only one I noticed to be behaving differently, largely by being more active, was MisterChris. I figured that either meant he was mafia or he was probing to get a good target for a power role. Either way, I figured the information would be useful.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Intelligence_06
Does that mean you're not available over winter break? I can't tell. You'd only need to be available for a couple of debates if you wanted to participate, and those don't have to be consecutive.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@WaterPhoenix
You seem to be leaving important information out of your reads.
2. Whiteflame- Lean scum: down for a lynch on him today, if he's scum pie also looks sus too because of whiteflame confirming him as town through his np results. he was also very readily to go on the that1 wagon.
I understand that you would think I'm sus for being on the lynch. That being said, Speed has now been confirmed town and was also on the lynch. He also used his night action on me, and whatever 3 roles he saw made him believe I wasn't scum. I also provided accurate information regarding what happened with MisterChris on NP1, as he visited someone that night. Maybe you think I'm a scum tracker or something, but you're basically side-stepping everything that would lead others to town confirm me.
4. iLikePie5- lean scum: went after speed at that1 who were both mislynches
Again, awfully strange that you're leaving out Speed's participation in the lynch. I would have been right there with you on this read in DP2, but at this point, he's outright claimed to have performed an NK during NP1 and I have tracking information showing that he did nothing in NP2. Again, if you don't trust that tracking, that's one thing, but the entire basis for your suspicions are based on being on a lynch that at least one known town was leading.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Barney
I'm with Danielle on this one. Not so much concerned about the character justification, largely for the same reason that you've mentioned - the justifications have been good in some areas but pretty head-scratching in others - but rather in your choice of targets. Seems strange to designate Drafter as your target when he was one of the few black boxes in the game. Maybe you had a strong town read on him for some unknown reason, but even if you did, I find it odd that you'd choose him over other individuals who claimed power roles or other people you suspected of being town. Any way I look at it, it's strange play to use your night action as you did.
I'm absolutely willing to wait, especially on warren who really should have claimed by now (his absence is especially glaring), but in the meantime, I'd like a fuller explanation of your choice of action.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Danielle
Well, I hope you heal up quickly. Injured my shoulder recently, and though I'm sure it's not as bad, it's been tough sleeping with it.
As for the character/role claim, not terribly familiar with Overlord but I know Albedo, and she makes perfect sense to include. Haven't seen a Siren before, that's an odd one. I'll reserve any judgement until I see warren's claim.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Danielle
Damn, I’m sorry to hear about that. My wife has had to go on those before and it’s never fun.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@MisterChris
If I had to pick a top 3 (just in case everyone's rather spread out on this):
Resolved: Developing countries should prioritize environmental protection over resource extraction when the two are in conflict
Resolved: The European Union should join the Belt and Road Initiative.
Resolved: The United States federal government should impose price controls on the pharmaceutical industry.
Honorable mention to the India on the Security Council topic. That one would be interesting, though I think these three have more meat to them.
Created: