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@That1User
Well, at least the role makes sense, but you're still being inconsistent beyond this description. I'll hold off on a VTL until I see more responses.
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@That1User
Seriously, I'm still having so much trouble with this.
I said "I love icecream"Icecream being a reference to vanilla, love being a reference to marriage
I thought this meant you were the Lover, and that you were already connected to a vanilla player. The notion that you were broadcasting your being vanilla this way seemed ridiculous to me (it's actually one of the reasons I thought you were sus), and it sounds strange for a Bride as well, since: a) you don't "love" anyone yet - not until NP3, and b) you don't know who you're loving, so you can't know they're vanilla and, based on your analysis, this reads more like saying you love yourself, which doesn't make much sense when you're only temporarily vanilla anyway. If this is how you were subtly telegraphing your role, you failed pretty hard.
I also said something about protective role in a reference to protection
The Bride role isn't protective. It's informative, but not protective. Really don't get this point.
Yes I am, this made me be prevented from using my power, effectively making me vanilla, I didn't lie when I said I was vanilla because I effectively am rn
We called you out on being vanilla many times. We've been doing this for almost 24 hours, and only now you see fit to clarify that you're not actually vanilla? It's a lie, dude. Even a power role that activates later is definitely not vanilla. You should have clarified ages ago.
I thought I'd stave off the pressure, I really, really did not want to claim this under any circumstance unless I was VTL-1, and I was, so I confessed to avoid me being hammered
The issue here is that this makes sense whether you're scum or town. Don't see why this favors you being town just because you claimed when under substantial pressure. Hell, the fact that you weren't hammered by lurking scum at VTL-1 actually makes you more sus.
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@MisterChris
I agree, it is powerful and it makes more sense for the character. Trouble is, it doesn't allay any of my behavioral suspicions, and the NP3 element seems problematic to me. If I'm right, it will take 2 more NPs for us to get a confirmation. I don't know if that's worth waiting for, but I'll wait to see her response to my last post.
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@That1User
Alright, having read a bit of the role, I'm now even more suspicious of the NP3 element. Please explain how the role works and what you can do during NP2 and NP3, as well as what should happen after that. Your role should describe it. If I don't get a clear full claim that matches the role, I'm replacing my vote.
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@That1User
Unvote
I'm only doing this until I get info from others. This doesn't substantially alter my suspicions, personally.
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@That1User
That makes more sense, I guess, but now I've got two new problems. One, I'm not sure why you waited so long to claim this. You've been under pressure over your vanilla claim for quite a while, and while this fits more of what you've been saying (maybe you were trying to just hint it? Honestly, it just made you look inconsistent), it also makes it look like a final gasp to prevent a lynch. Two... you're an NP3 Bride? I'm not terribly familiar with the role because I've never seen it played, but you're roleless until NP3? I've never heard of a delay lasting that long, though that may just be my own lack of experience. Anyone familiar with something like this?
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@MisterChris
If I'm right about your role and justification, then I believe it will be pretty good - in fact, it will have been the best I've seen so far based on what I suspect is his reasoning (not that we've gotten a lot of those, but even on my town reads, the Lucy Heartfilia = Dreamer and the Lucoa = Redirector both seem a little strange). Assuming she flips scum, this would certainly give us some information on the weight we should apply to justifications, though I'm still going to take that info with a pretty large grain of salt. There's too much going on here that I'm not clear about. All the confirmed characters/roles make sense to me, and it's possible that some town are lying about their roles for the time being, but I can't be sure yet.
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In case anyone needs further convincing, I noticed a bit ago that Supa had changed his profile picture to... Rias Gremory, That1User's character claim. It somewhat beggars belief that he actively selected a character who is in this game as his profile pic, but even if he did, I have an even harder time believing that a character who is probably among his favorite waifus is somehow vanilla in this game. I won't dismiss the possibility that Supa's just trolling us, and I do not know precisely when his profile pic was changed, but this in combination with That1's behavior stands out to me.
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@That1User
Unvote me, at this point scum can come in and mislynch
As for this statement... doesn't that assume that all the people who are currently on the vote against you are town? You keep throwing around claims of who is scum in this game, yet you're being extremely inconsistent in that regard. Moreover, even if this was true, that's part of the process of narrowing down targets. It would not be the first game where I've seen scum hammer a townie and used it as a means to lynch them in the next phase. Not that I think that's what is going to happen here, of course. I think everyone currently on the lynch is either solid town or leaning that way, and I suspect you've now induced sufficient suspicion that most if not all the votes will be town. I still wouldn't be surprised if scum hopped on the lynch at this stage to make themselves look innocent (almost certain we're going to see the line "if I was scum, why would I have lynched my partner?" at some point, whether it's warranted or not), but that's largely because you've made yourself such a clear target. If they know you're going to get lynched anyway, might as well get in on it to cover their own tracks.
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@That1User
In general, the argument that we can't risk a mislynch isn't a very good defense. At this stage, anyone is a potential mislynch, but we aren't just going to sit on our hands and do nothing. Initially, we were suspicious of you for a moderate problem with your character claim, but your behavior has made it far more clear that you're likely scum. It's possible we're wrong, and as I've been one of the people leading the charge against you, if I am wrong, I wouldn't be surprised to become suspicious myself. Not going to stop me.
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@That1User
I'm willing to consider other options, but until we have enough people on board for a viable lynch on you or Draft, the point that splitting the vote or a mislynch is bad is just moot. The vote isn't going anywhere regardless of what I do. I'd like to get people on board for a lynch, and yes, I'd like to avoid a mislynch. I could be wrong about you. We could be wrong about Draft. I'm not convinced by your story and I'm not fond of Draft's behavior or claims of being lynchproof. I could swing either way, but the only way that matters is if we can get at least two other people interested in a vote. For now, I'll stay where I am.
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@That1User
Speed could be NK'd, preventing us from gaining that bit of knowledge regardless, but even if we do, we only know you're one of three possible roles. If vanilla and a scum role come up, we don't gain any strong insight as a result.
I'm still not convinced by your explanation. There are just too many inconsistencies in what you're saying. Besides that, even if you aren't lying, you were rather quick to change targets in an effort to get attention off of yourself. Maybe that's justified - you certainly picked a target you knew I would consider - but it just has me more suspicious.
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@That1User
I thought you said that your justification was that she’s suppressing her own power.
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@That1User
Also, I'm absolutely willing to lynch Draft today if there's enough steam behind it. So far, it only looks like we have 4 votes in that camp if everyone who has said they are sus of him goes that way. Need a couple more first. That being said, I'm not convinced he's the best choice anymore.
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@That1User
Yeah... so, a couple of things...
First, it's not the fact that you're a protagonist, just as it wasn't the fact that Lunatic was, that makes either of you likely to be vanilla. It makes nothing but sense for a character like Lunatic's to fall into the vanilla camp, though I can think of a few other plausible roles. In your case, it's a different story. The types of characters are extremely different, their places in the fan community are almost entirely opposite, and I have a very hard time believing that Supa would look at your character and say "yep, that's vanilla alright." I very much doubt that Supa is just writing off all protagonist characters as vanilla. That would be absurd.
Second, you said this:
I am prevented from doing any night actions
That is a very strange way of saying you are vanilla. Being vanilla means you don't have night actions. In that sense, I guess the mod is preventing you from doing night actions, but people don't usually phrase it that way. Preventing from doing night actions usually means that someone is role blocking you. Now, why did you choose to frame it this way when that would just make you look less consistent in your role?
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@MisterChris
I can't comment on That1's justification, because I don't know the character. It does look like the character is the main protagonist though. Unsure of whether Supa would make a protagonist vanilla
I wouldn't go based on that, alone. Lunatic's character is practically the protagonist of her show, but she's vanilla. Difference is, that makes a lot more sense for her.
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@MisterChris
The difference is, I can't be lynched today.Is this a claim of deathproof, or just Drafter assuming no one could possibly want to lynch him?
The more I've thought about this, the less I believe that he's actually somehow lynchproof and more that he just honestly believes that the votes won't go against him. It's Maybe it is a bluff, but it's an almost absurd thing to bluff.
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@Speedrace
Still willing to vote Draft if there are enough people willing to push. For now, though, I'd say I'm more sus of That1's claim than I am of the absence of a claim from Draft.
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@Speedrace
Which is why having all characters would be nicecough cough DRAFTER
Yup... sure would be nice... btw, get that cough checked out.
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@MisterChris
I know who Chika is, seen the series. In general, I think you're town. I'm betting I know the role as well, though I'll keep that to myself. Don't want you to reveal it yet.
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@WaterPhoenix
Yes, and it's great that you would do that, but it doesn't make me automatically town read her.
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@Barney
She is infamous in the anime world for a reason. Not a yandere, but I wouldn't be surprised if the character claim was real and she was either scum or TP.
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@Barney
Honestly, I'm right on board with you. I have a very hard time believing that a character like this is vanilla, and I was suspicious of the character claim to begin with. I'm not an expert in the series, but this character is very commonly known in the anime community for... reasons... (feel free to look up Oppai Beam sometime) and those reasons absolutely do not align with a vanilla role. I just don't buy it.
Unvote
VTL That1User
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@WaterPhoenix
See, I don't understand that as a reason to not see her as sus. If she had received a PM with that justification, then the character name would have been in the justification. Mistakes like this don't seem particularly farfetched for a mafia that is generating a fake claim.
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@That1User
I find that justification hard to believe... but it seems that's going around. Generally have a hard time believing that Rias Gremory was given "vanilla" as a role. Need to consider this.
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@Danielle
No worries. Frankly, I'm shocked that others didn't figure it out.
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@Danielle
@That1User
Well, cat's out of the bag now. Like Speed said.
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@warren42
It wasn't particularly shocking to me. It wasn't necessarily the best choice, but I don't have trouble seeing sense in it. WP clearly wasn't aware that he could have targeted himself, and that option likely wouldn't have even occurred to him (not trying to put you down - I probably wouldn't have thought of it either). The option not to do anything might have been better in theory, but the decision ended up being a positive one so long as we believe Speed is town.
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@Speedrace
Also drafter never denied it when I said I thought he was hinting that he has a lynch role
Yup, noticed that. Don't know if that's a subtle actual claim, a false one, or pure bravado.
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@Danielle
I'm right there with you on pretty much all of this. Even though I'm pretty sure I do know what role That1 is, I'm null on her as you are. As for Speed, there have actually been claims made against him - in fact, the same claims made against WP have largely been directed at him as well (at least insofar as That1, Pie and Draft have all stated a willingness to lynch Speed, but a preference to lynch WP).
It does help to know that you didn't target Speed. Don't really need information on who you targeted (at least not now) as long as we have that.
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@warren42
@Speedrace
And how does speed know thisProbably the same way he knows lolCan I get in on the fun here? I think I'm with speed and whiteflame
Didn't know we were forming a club (cabal?) over this, but I'm here for it.
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@warren42
I’ll be specific. My question was: “Are all the roles possible in this game on that spreadsheet from Drafter, or are the options broader than that?” His response was “Not all”, hence I would go with your first interpretation, though it may be worth asking a more incisive question to confirm.
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@drafterman
@WaterPhoenix
If he was town and was suspicious of Pie, he should have redirected pie onto himself.oh shit you can do that?
See, this is why the whole point about suboptimal play doesn't track with me. This may be a hell of a lie, but I sincerely doubt it.
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@Speedrace
Thought that at first as well. I think he may honestly just believe there's no chance there would be enough votes to lynch him on this DP.
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@That1User
If it's up to backup choices, I'd sooner put pressure on the people who haven't claimed (Danielle and warren) than any of the ones that have.
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@drafterman
Believe it or not, I'd much rather rally behind a lynch this DP than fail to do so, and if I have any good reason to favor your story of a scum who revealed that they had a tricky role for no conceivable reason, then I'd vote here and now. Whether fortunately or unfortunately, I can't find any greater reason to believe your story than the one WP is telling. Maybe I am leaning on my prior understanding of WP's behavior, but honestly, it's the only way I've even seen the break the tie. Whether he is town or scum, his play has been suboptimal.
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@drafterman
@That1User
It seems like the only reason you're favoring this lynch is because it would be suboptimal play for a townie Redirector. Fine. Let's just throw out what we already thought we knew about WP and treat him as a blank slate with substantial experience. If he is scum, he's also making suboptimal play. He chose the right target for redirection, sure, but he followed it up by outing himself as the one who did it. How is that an optimal choice? Whether he's town or scum, his play is suboptimal. I don't see how one is more likely than the other with your logic.
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@drafterman
For that matter, and I'll point this out again, if he is scum, that would mean that his scum partner both encouraged him to do this redirect and encouraged him to reveal himself as the person doing the redirection afterward. I understand the first, but I still can't fathom why he'd take the second step as scum, especially when it removes other possible options for roles that could have caused this outcome and implicates WP directly without reason.
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@drafterman
Then please explain why the scenario I've described is wrong. By your argument, you could see no scenario where WP would have seen Pie as scum and redirected to the only person he knew did not have a power role. I'm not saying it was the right decision, but if we believe you, then there can be no world in which WP believed that he was making the right choice. Why do you disbelieve that so strongly?
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@drafterman
WP definitely wouldn't have either thought to are wanted to do that. I think your perspective is about what he SHOULD have done rather than what he WOULD have done. The latter is more important in our interpretation. WP read what was said in the last round about Croc, saw an easy target that may not have been missed if it was gone, and redirected to it. He wouldn't have thought to have Pie target him, and would absolutely have wanted to preserve himself if he had thought of it, in anticipation of the NK. He may just also have believed he had more utility beyond the first NP.
So, I'll clarify my question: why do you think WP would not behave this way if he was town, and what makes you suspect that his scum partner would encourage him to reveal his role if he was scum?
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@drafterman
Alright, so now we're back to assuming the motivations. Let's do that.
If he's town and he redirected, then he was suspicious of Pie and sought to redirect him. In terms of targets, he probably had no clue whether anyone else was town or mafia. His choices were:
1) to blindly select someone from the rest of the group, hope they were mafia, and target to them, or
2) to pick the known Hated townie, who was unlikely to be of much use the rest of the game and may become a policy elimination later
If he's mafia, then he believed that Pie was town, redirected him to Croc (the known townie) with the aim of showing up innocent. That's possible, and if that happened then clearly the fact that the redirect was reported to Pie gave away the game.
Fine. Both seem like plausible options to me. Why are you putting more stake in the latter? Honestly, if this was anyone else, I would probably on the same page as you, but given that this is WP, I don't see much reason to buy the latter framing over the former. The only way I buy that is if he both has a scum partner who both told him to do this and told him to reveal that he was the one doing the redirecting. The former move makes sense to me, but the latter doesn't.
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@drafterman
I understand that Croc wasn't the best redirect target, but that's true whether he's a townie or mafia. Frankly, I buy that it at least makes more sense for it to be a townie move coming from WP. The reasoning isn't great, but if a scum partner was giving him directions, I honestly can't fathom why he'd choose to redirect to Croc instead of hitting a possible power role. Eliminating the Hated townie doesn't really accomplish much for them. Sure, there's some risk involved, but that still seems like the obviously better move, especially when there were so many of us talking about lynching Croc early.
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@drafterman
He didn’t select Speed. He selected Pie and redirected his actions to Croc. Why is it impossible to believe that he was suspicious of Pie?
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@drafterman
Could you explain to me why he couldn’t possibly have tried to protect him from an NK?
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@ILikePie5
I'm saying that that behavior doesn't come solely from misreads. WP doesn't play this game in a way that most of us would. I'm not saying that's a free ticket for him to behave however he wants, though I haven't seen any solid discrepancies in his behavior that separate him from previous games where he was town. It's an odd role, he used it in an odd way, and surprisingly got what he wanted. I don't see how this is obvious scum play, and if he had a scum partner who was trying to guide him, I don't see why they'd push him to do this.
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@ILikePie5
Dude, last game, he targeted the BP as the Doc. He may not be a noob, but he doesn't play this game the same way you or I would.
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@ILikePie5
As for the flip flop, again, this is WP we're talking about. For lots of other players, that would be sus. For him, not so much.
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