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@Lunatic
We still have a little over 6 hours, and I'd personally prefer to get his claim and assess it before someone hammers.
Unvote
I'll guarantee my vote for now, assuming that his claim doesn't change anything substantially, and VTL at least a couple of hours before the deadline.
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Meant to put that in a quote box and it turned up bold… this is why I usually don’t post from my phone.
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@Lunatic
Let's lynch supa guys. Phase is expiring soon.
I’ve been considering it. Wylted is generally more prone to this kind of behavior, but it’s unusual for Supa to get on a policy lynch train, and his reasoning this game has been odd in general. It is pretty different from the last couple of games where he’s been scum, though, and largely taken a backseat early on. I’d at least be willing to push for a claim.
VTL Supa
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@oromagi
No, but I can totally see how you got there and considering the methodology your guess ought to be much further off the mark than is the case.
Fascinating. Alright, I'll continue considering this.
Also, since my vote is still up on Poly, unvote
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@oromagi
interesting that you noticed but said nothing and let Poly confirm the wincon.
Yes, I made that choice quite deliberately, since doing so gave me a pretty good indication that Poly is town. It's plausible that he saw the same post and inferred the same conclusion that I did, though he wouldn't have added that he received the message about his wincon after receiving his initial PM. Maybe I could have given myself some town cred by claiming it as well, though I think I learned more from this particular exchange than I would have by spilling to beans myself.
By the by, I have also made the choice not to point out other details of that post that I believe are also pertinent, given that you've also included what appears to be a pretty clear soft claim in there. Not sure why no one else decided to point that out, but given that it's the only non-C/P claim on the table, I think we should consider it. Am I correct that you claimed the Beloved Princess?
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@Evilgenius
Alright, appreciate your attention, hope work wasn't too stressful.
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@oromagi
It's possible that he just forgot with certain ones. Wouldn't be surprised if he just had a list going and left one or two out. That being said, the fact that Poly has a follow-up PM giving him the wincon tells me he's more likely to be town. Scum may have received a similar message, but I think Pie was less likely to leave off scum wincons than town. Perhaps that's a mistake of interpretation, so I'm not going to rely too much on that read.
All that being said, you stated early "YwwtT", which is in line with both my and Poly's wincons. Not sure that vindicates you, because if I'm right that Pie was more thorough with scum, then it's plausible that you were given a fake claim that included the wincon.
Again, not reading too much into this yet, want to give it some thought.
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@oromagi
@Polyglot
I personally see this as anti-town behavior on GP's part, and would prefer a lynch on him to doing nothing or lynching randomly, but wouldn't put him first if we have someone to sus.
Well I can attest that the wincon and my role weren’t sent to me in the same message. Pie sent it to me after. So I’m sure the same happened with GP, and he just copied the first message
Pie did the same with me. I actually alerted him to the absence of a wincon in the original PM, and he may have sent it out to everyone immediately afterward.
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@oromagi
@drlebronski
@Evilgenius
Seriously, guys, no input on this at all? No thoughts on GP or my behavior? Would love to actually hear from you on this. You’ve all been online within the last 4 hours.
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@Vader
At this point, I'm done arguing over this. If you want to FoS me, then that's your choice, but I think GP is obviously town. I think you are likely town, and I think it is a waste of our time to focus the discussion on just the three of us. We made the mistake of overfocusing in the last game, and it screwed us over. If the end result is that you want to push a lynch on someone who clearly just wants to be gone from this game or on me, then so be it, but the lack of involvement from everyone else is more troubling to me than anything you or GP have said. Luna has an excuse and Poly at least gave some indication of when he'd post again, but I don't know what's keeping everyone else from posting over the course of the entire day.
Wylted got his question answered, but still susses me solely on the basis that I asked it.
Oro hasn't been involved at all aside from tracking who has spoken and who hasn't.
Bron and Evil have basically done nothing.
I'd like to see more from any of them.
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Dude, if this is your basis for sussing me, I’m seriously at a loss for what you thought my plan was or even what you thought I did. Let’s follow what I did:
I clearly got information somehow that Pie wasn’t going to do anything about GP. That included a message where he said that mafia could be given fake claims.
I delivered that information to town, including the plausible usage of fake claims. The only thing I left out was that Pie actually told me there could be fake claims, which doesn’t seem particularly pertinent when that is always the case.
I then suggested that both you and Poly ask the same question to Pie, knowing that you would get either the same or a very similar answer to what I got. We’ve come to the same conclusion that I had already presented, the only difference is that you now sus me as well for coming to that conclusion without providing the information that you and anyone else could have obtained by asking the same question of Pie.
So, explain it to me: how did my choice not to include the statement “Pie told me” before “this could be a fake claim” benefit scum or hurt town in any way, especially when I was actively pushing you to ask the same question? Why would I do that as scum knowing full well that you would get the information I got?
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@Vader
Well, I guess it's your choice to see this as crucial information that I excluded. If you want to sus me over it, be my guest. I don't see this as crucial, I see this as a given, and I don't think that Pie's making this statement does anything more than emphasize the point. If you weren't already assuming that this was the case and you needed Pie to state that in the PM to make you consider it, then from where I'm sitting, that's on you. This should be obvious by now, and the only reason I can think of for why it isn't is that some of our more recent games haven't included fake claims. I think we should be assuming that fake claims are in play for any games where the mod doesn't say anything about them.
As for why it would be sus, I already explained this, but I'll say it again: Pie mentioned it offhand to me in my PM, and I was unsure that someone asking a similar question would get the same answer. If you hadn't gotten the same answer, you would have sussed me for including that detail when you didn't receive it. As I see it, the fact that I mentioned it at all should vindicate me because, as you yourself said, "Why as I scum would I want to out that there are fake role PMs given potentially?" Not sure why I'd be the first to bring it up as scum and, since you seem to be assuming that GP and I are a potential scum team, why I'd push that narrative against my scum partner in the first place.
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@Vader
The closest show in my Top 10 from the Big 3 is Naruto.I think the reason a lot of people wouldn't put Big 3 in the Top 10 because of the pacing really. It's the main reason why One Piece isn't in my Top 10.I think each series I watched has it's issue. When you have such long series' that have lots of arc, formula will tend to run dry and you have to use the same formula but in different scenarios. One Piece actually attempted to do such a thing, and I think Naruto had some very creative arcs but some where just inconsistent overallI think the reason FT is so much worse than OP is because OP tries to deviate from the same try and true formula in every arc. Also One Piece's world building is superior to any anime series, let alone Shonen, especially FT. One Piece uses the formula but is able to make it interesting with the world they are in and the situation. It's consistent with One PieceNaruto has a different arc for almost every event. From the Chunin Exams to the Retrieval for Sasuke, and the Pain Arc, each has a different overarching theme and arc that makes the series so much enjoyable and fun when the arcs hit in Naruto
I agree with some of this, though I think Naruto's efforts to be creative didn't always hit, and there were some pacing issues as the series went on. The resolutions for some fights were especially infuriating as well, particularly with issues like Talk no Jutsu and somehow surviving impossible circumstances. Not going to go through specific instances of either, but while the fights themselves were amazing in most instances, I felt that, more often than not, they just didn't end satisfyingly. I feel like One Piece does a better job on the resolutions, even if its fights aren't up to that level. Not to say that I'm dismissive of what Naruto did as a series, I just don't think that it's up to the standard One Piece sets for how its arcs play out, even if they're similar to one another. That being said, the original series of Naruto would end up outstripping most of what I'd say is top tier One Piece.
As for Fairy Tail, yeah, I'd agree with that.
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@Vader
Whiteflame failed to mention in his statement that Pie has been known to give fake PMs as mod before, which still leaves me with an FOS. That is a crucial detail he left out
A. What exactly do you think happened here that makes me look scummy? Seriously, break this down for me. I clearly did ask Pie because I got the same answer you did, but I decided to specifically leave out this detail that, frankly, does nothing more than tell me that GP's claim could be fake. Setting aside the fact that it is not a crucial detail at all (I think we all should have assumed that his claim could be fake), why is my failure to deliver this specific piece of intel scummy?
B. I actually was the first one to mention that this could be a fake claim. The only thing I didn't mention was that Pie specifically told me that he has a history of giving out fake claims. I didn't need hear that though (and honestly, neither should you), because I already knew that from checking the previous games he's modded. I didn't need to see it in a message from him to establish that that is the case, I only needed to look back through previous games. Why is it important for you to specifically mention that Pie said it in a PM? Why isn't that information a given in any game where the mod doesn't say they aren't giving out fake claims? I also think it would have generally looked sus of me to post that Pie specifically told me that, since I wasn't sure if he'd send the same message to others (I now know that he did) and it might have looked pretty defensive of GP and a bit scummy for me to say that I received that message from Pie, particularly if no one else got the same message.
C. I think it's pretty obvious that GP was trying to get himself modkilled. Unless you have some reason to doubt that, I don't see why he'd go through the trouble as scum to post his fake claim rather than his actual claim. He clearly didn't care what happened to him, so despite what Pie said, I think it's pretty likely that GP is town after seeing this. I'm not sure I understand the circumstances that would lead a scum GP to try to get himself modkilled by posting his fake claim, so while I am leaving open that possibility, I'd say it's rather remote. At the moment, I'm having a much easier time buying that he just posted his actual claim and that GP is, thus, town. If anything, I see Pie's statement as more reason to believe that he is town, since Pie would be trying to keep things interesting when we'd all automatically townread GP's claim.
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@Vader
@Polyglot
As far as grayparrots actions, can’t really say he is town confirmed. We don’t know what information was given in the PM’s or if Whiteflame really asked or not.
There is no way that a mod allows copy and pasting role PM's. If Pie allows that it just means he can't run a game properly. I think that Grey is faking his copy and paste PM and that you are just validating what Grey saysI just don't think Pie is that oblivious to where he's just gonna allow someone to C & P there PM
Guys, can we please get a grip for a moment here?
Poly, you do not have to trust that I asked. I told you I asked Pie about it directly and got a specific answer. You can ask him, too, and see if you get the same answer. I agree that GP's actions don't town confirm him, but it is seriously not hard to double-check what I'm saying and I'm frankly shocked that neither of you have done it.
Supa, repeating the above, you can ask Pie whether this is something that he has actively chosen to do. I'm surprised as well, but I got the word straight from Pie. You can get it from him as well, and if you think it's bastard modding, so be it. Whether you trust me or you don't, ask him. However, this much I'm nearly certain of: GP did not produce that claim on his own. It looks much too similar to mine to just be something he created on the fly, and given the short span of time between his first two posts and how early they were, I don't think he could produce something that looks that clean that quickly. It's either a real claim or a fake claim given to him by Pie.
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@Vader
Scum is whiteflame and/or GP
Mind explaining that to me?
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@Wylted
GP is apparently town confirmed because of the Copy and paste rule confirmation.
I wouldn't be so quick to town confirm GP, though I think it makes him less likely to be scum. It's entirely possible that scum was provided with fake claims.
We have whiteflame who asked in a PM or a discord chat about GP's "slip".What's the motivation to ask in chat? If he is town, it is anti town because it is something that may have went unnoticed by Pie. If he is scum, he gets a free elimination on GP.
As for the rest of this, would you like to take a look back at the OP where Pie said:
- I will not any questions in the DP itself. I can only answer questions about your and only your role in your PM with me
So, yes, I asked Pie in my PM for the obvious reason that he wouldn't answer questions posed in the DP. I didn't want to waste time asking a question here that we would sit and wait for an answer to when none would be forthcoming, as Supa did.
I Don't see any good reason for asking, especially in a PM instead of publicly and risking a free kill on a town.
Considering that, at the time, I thought we were losing a member of town solely because GP was frustrated at his inclusion in this game, I think it's unsurprising that I'd pose the question. I also don't realistically see how this would go unnoticed by Pie if it was against the rules. It's not like this is a subtle choice on GP's part, and others clearly thought to ask the same question.
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@Polyglot
Unvote
VTL Poly
You’re the only one left. What’s taking so long to post?
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@Wylted
where are you getting that pie was not going to mod kill GP? Why do you think he wont still?
Because I asked Pie about it. He told me that it is not against the rules to copy/paste your PM. You can check for yourself.
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@drlebronski
Yep. Here I am fasting for Yom Kippur and going to services, and no one else is talking.
Speaking of which, Bron, it doesn't exactly gin up activity to just point out that there isn't any. Pick someone who is active, tag them, and even VTL them if you want to get their attention. Poly, Evil and Wylted haven't posted yet.
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@Wylted
@oromagi
The dude abides
A man of culture, I see!
My ROLE is quite disconnected from character description.
Took me a second to see a connection for my role, but it does make some sense, albeit remotely.
Unvote
VTL Wylted
Where you at?
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@oromagi
Alright, need to get more people in here.
VTL Oro
How’s it going, dude?
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Well, apparently copy/pasting your PM is allowed in this game, so I guess this is nothing new from GP, though I doubt he'll be any help going forward.
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@Greyparrot
...You know, instead of getting yourself modkilled, we could have gotten you a replacement. That would have been the way not to be a dick about it.
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Alright, this is one anime series I know almost nothing about beyond the basic premise. Also, for those who are similarly lacking in knowledge of this, anyone else mix Bakugan and Beyblade around in their heads? Was going to start with “Let it rip!” but thought better of it.
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To clarify, I wouldn't put any of these three in my top 10. One Piece would have to have a pretty spectacular ending to make it there since, as Supa said, it's got pretty formulaic arcs and the anime at least (the manga's better at this) has major pacing problems, despite being the best of these in my book. That being said, they each have some of my favorite moments and characters in anime, and they became the Big 3 for a reason. While other series have risen to take the places of Naruto and Bleach, I'd be hard-pressed to say that we have a Big 3 today, though if we did, it would be somewhere between One Piece, Jujutsu Kaisen, Demon Slayer, My Hero Academia and Attack on Titan, so a good set, but certainly more spread out. Add in the newcomers that are likely to make a splash like Chainsaw Man and you'd be hard-pressed to come down on just 3 big ones.
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@Crocodile
One Piece would be my favorite of those three. Naruto is a somewhat close second, Bleach a distant third.
One Piece is probably the best example of worldbuilding I've seen in anime. It's incredible at juggling so many aspects of the world going on at once, I feel that each of the arcs builds emotional stakes beautifully, and its progression doesn't come with the sudden and somewhat world-breaking power-ups that come with the other two. Despite being incredibly long, it's held onto a lot of what made it great in the first place while expanding on its power system well. It lags behind both Bleach and Naruto in terms of great fights and I'd say that its emotional moments don't measure up to Naruto's, but on the whole, it's just a better story with more to sink you're teeth into. Also, probably the least offensively bad filler of the three.
Naruto honestly has some of the best fights of any anime and some of the strongest emotional beats to boot. If this was about which series had the best moments, it would be my easy choice, but taken as a whole, the series is really inconsistent for me. A lot of what made Naruto great was eschewed for spectacle almost immediately in Naruto Shippuden, the story went in some really wonky directions that led to one of the worst twist villains near the end of the series, and it just generally became known for having too little willingness to kill off major characters. That plus the numerous plot holes and some truly heinous filler set it back a few paces.
Bleach is the saddest one on this list. As a concept, it's my absolute favorite of the three, and if you only look through the Rescue Rukia Arc, it's a contender against both of the above series. I probably wouldn't hate on it as much (though it would still be in third) if my only experience with it was the anime. The fights range pretty widely in quality, but there are some solidly great ones in there, and the emotional beats hit hard when they land. Aside from some hype moments in the Hueco Mundo Arc, I was just generally disappointed by the turns the story took through arcs after the Soul Society, but while there were problems, there was nothing particularly terrible, just some lackluster plots and boring filler. Unfortunately, I also finished the manga, and that's what sets this series back. It has one of the worst endings I've seen, and I can only hope that the anime revival will dispense with it entirely to do something original. In the absence of that, Bleach remains one of the more frustrating series I've watched/read.
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Ah, an anime I know absolutely nothing about. Let's do it.
/in
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@Lunatic
I did mention that it was scummy of supa to board the evil wagon so late. Wylted wasn't on either of those wagons so thats why he looked good. Poly and leb just seemed scummier, poly for posturing about hammering evil all game then having the gall to omgus me after for hammering evil when I literally saved the game from stalling out another day phase arguing about whether evil was town or scum.
Would've taken me a hot second to come back around to Wylted, though I did sus him at the end of the last DP. The fact that he was on Bron when the split in votes was clearly elsewhere didn't make him look super good, so I would've been sussing him more than Bron. Poly and Supa were at the top of my list for stalling, not sure I would've made a different decision if I were in your shoes.
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Well, at least now we know how Vanilla games go.
I will say that I think we need to prevent ourselves from slipping back into this trend of people pushing for auto-lynches. Clearly, both Luna and Pie were town here, yet they still had this extensive back and forth. I townread both of you at the end of the DP, but the split between you did not help things.
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I didn't spot Supa in the last game, but his hopping on the lynch super late like that and claiming he was on board from the start looked sus to me.
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@Lunatic
Wylted and Supa. Was actually surprised you gave Supa a pass in this one. Didn't have time to analyze him at the end of the last DP, but my selection would've been between him and Poly.
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Well... that was a fast game. I definitely had a hand in this going badly for town, so I can't say anything, but probably should've thought through this lynch a little more.
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@Lunatic
I don’t know how you think any of us should see this choice, but fine, I’ll leave that for the next DP. However, I think characterizing what we’ve done as an effort to ensure that Disc doesn’t count your vote is actively absurd, especially when you’re characterizing my choices as intransigent towards the end of getting him lynched. Either I actively wanted him lynched and have maintained that position or I’m showing hesitancy and never really wanted it in the first place. It can’t be both.
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@Lunatic
Of course I was, Evil isn't the lynch I wanted, but I don't want a no lynch either after all of that.
If that was really the case, then the fact that you conveniently hopped onto the lynch 10 minutes after the DP should have ended is an odd choice. You knew that if you didn't post anything and just let the DP end with a NL, that would have led to us sussing you. This seems like an awfully convenient way to have your cake and eat it, too.
My point is that you guys are doubting the lynch will go through publicly as if you are trying to encourage the mod not to count the vote. Why do that if you are confident in your decision? You don't know how the mod mods. I have seen mods count last minute votes as long as they are posted before the mod is on to post the final vote count. So why assume prima facia that it isn't counting unless you are encouraging the mod to go that route?
Yes, we recognized that you posted late and, in my words, I'm "pretty sure Disc won't count it at this point." That doesn't speak to my confidence, but it does speak to my disappointment. No, we are not actively encouraging the mod not to count the vote. That's an especially absurd statement to make about my motives when, in this very DP, you said that I was dedicated to this lynch. And now, because I mention my frustration with the situation, what I've done all DP long suddenly ceases to matter? For that matter, how am I "encouraging the mod" to do anything? I'll straight up say it now: I hope Disc counts your vote, but I don't think he will. The fact that you're making this kind of about-face on both my and Pie's motives is really not helping your case, dude.
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@ILikePie5
Now there’s a case for scum Luna and town Evil as well. Literally Fast Food 2.0.
Yep, it’s possible.
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@Lunatic
if you didnt say anything he may have allowed it. Seems like you don't trust your own lynch since you are hoping disc will call a no lynch
Well, since we’re still open, I’ll address this.
Considering that you waited as long as you did to hop on this lynch, it’s clear that between you and Pie, only you were actively trying to obstruct it. You clearly had your reasons, but the last minute “sigh…” vote taking place 10 minutes after the DP should have ended certainly doesn’t look good on you. Also, the logic here is bonkers. Pie’s pointing out the obvious somehow indicates that he was seeking a NL despite actively rallying more votes up to the very end of the DP? I honestly don’t know who you expect to buy that logic. Wasn’t your whole point that he was actively pushing a mislynch?
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@Lunatic
Yeah... pretty sure Disc won't count it at this point. Great, a NL. Well, at least I posted my thoughts on it ahead of time.
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Well, even given the shift toward an Evil lynch, there's a decent chance that we won't get a lynch off in this DP. There's a clear split between Pie and Evil, and obviously, I feel rather strongly about the Evil lynch. That being said, we can still take information away from this DP, regardless of whether we get a lynch off or not. Holdouts that prevented the lynch from going through should be sussed during the next DP, so everyone who refused to vote throughout this DP (namely Poly) and those who remained adamant about their lynches despite moves to vote in the other direction (Luna and, yes, me too) should be sussed. Particularly in an all Vanilla game, a lynch should be happening in this DP, and anyone that stood in the way of a lynch for substantial lengths of time (might include Wylted in that since he's been jumping around and is currently on Bron, a non-starter at this late stage, despite initially putting Pie at L-1) should immediately be a target of suspicion in the next DP.
I'm still not certain how this DP is going to end, but with only an hour left and a more than decent possibility that I'll be NK'd (I would not be surprised if both Luna and Pie survive the NP, given that a later lynch is almost certainly going to come down to those two), I'm giving my thoughts on POE based on a NL. Hopefully, this is all unnecessary and I just wasted my time writing it out, though I think some of this will still apply regardless of what happens.
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@drlebronski
Like I told Luna, I'm not shifting over to Pie. I'm willing to consider other options, but given that we have 4 hours, people will have to be on and active to make it happen.
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@Lunatic
I noticed that you didn't catch my post about being willing to consider the Poly lynch. I don't think it is at all plausible at this point that Evil and Pie are a scum team, and since I'm still sussing Evil at the moment, that makes the Pie lynch even further from my consideration for this DP. I could see a hesitant Poly/Evil scum team, though. What makes you think Poly is sus?
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@Lunatic
Suffice it to say that I still disagree with you. I think a lot of your defense of him basically amounts to "this is not pro-scum behavior", which I agree with, but I also don't believe that he would exhibit pro-scum behaviors. I think scum Evil would behave a lot like town Evil, though I think the differences I've pointed out suggest where there are distinctions. We haven't seen Evil as scum, so we can't know precisely how he would act were he scum, but it sounds like you and I are coming at reading his behaviors from very different perspectives, and that's leading us to two different conclusions.
I also think that there's value in his flip. I feel that I could do a lot with that information at this point because I've seen how many of us have responded to this wagon. I already have some ideas in mind about how I'd go into the next DP, whether he ends up being scum or town, and I especially feel that it would help me decide whether a lynch on either you or Pie would be warranted. And, to the contrary, I see markedly little value in lynching Pie. At best, that's going to be a good indicator for you. And I'll also note that, despite your saying that "he can control the narrative with the rest of town", I'm seeing you displaying more control than him at the moment, considering that both Wylted and Bron have come over to your perspective. I've been with scum Pie, and, at the moment, I disagree that what he's done in this DP is obviously scummy. If that leads to difficult lynches in the future, so be it, but it's unlikely that I'll be coming over to your perspective at this point.
I wouldn't have pointed that out. But if you are noticing your own similarities to wylted's own bad lynching habit from the last game, I suppose that is a start in the right direction.
I'll note that I was noting what makes my perspective distinct from Wylted's in the last game. I'll also note that you were the one who, in the first game where I was scum, pointed out that I was too self-conscious in my posts.
Well if evil is lynched, and you are right, I'll be happy to be proven wrong. I'll admit happily to being a jackass in that case. I just feel like we are repeating the same mistake with him that we have in the past 3 games and I fear we are learning slowly. Maybe I am wrong though.
I'll be the first to admit that we haven't made the best choices with Evil in the last couple of games. That being said, I think we'd be making a pretty big mistake say that the lesson from those games is to townread strange behavior from Evil or even to treat him as null in those instances.
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@Lunatic
I’m not saying that it’s impossible for him to be town. I’m saying that he’s far more self-conscious this game about his strategies. It’s not just about a single word usage, though I’m starting to notice that Pie’s point feeds into mine. I don’t see this as a purely noob move. I see this as a substantial show of self-consciousness that I haven’t seen before, as though he’s suddenly more aware of how others perceive his behaviors. Maybe that’s just growth on his part, but if it is, then it didn’t last much beyond that point. The self-consciousness suddenly disappeared when it was pointed out and he reverted back to his old behaviors.
I’m sure that you’ll point to my previous statements regarding Wylted and his focus on self-consciousness from Poly in the previous game, but I’d say that this is different. I’d say that this demonstrates a self-consciousness in how his strategy is viewed, rather than a laser focus on linguistic choices, and it covers behavior that was present across multiple posts. I’ve done this before, the first time I was scum. I recognize that response. Maybe I’m wrong, but it’s one of the few instances where I’ve felt strongly enough about what I’m seeing to start and push a lynch, and I still feel strongly about it.
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@drlebronski
mainly cause lunatic pointed out how evil acts the same in other games.vtl pie
Well, I don’t think Luna has proven that Evil acts like this in other games. He’s shown that the OMGUS, specifically, is characteristic for him. He hasn’t shown that the subsequent behavior of hopping off the lynch and recharacterizing it to make it seem like it wasn’t an OMGUS is anything like what he’s done before.
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@ILikePie5
The “we (town)” thing doesn’t stand out to me as much as it does you. I can see your point, but I’m also not sure Evil would try to subtly influence perception like that.
And as for the flip, if we do lynch Evil (which seems unlikely at this stage) and he flips scum, I’ve got some ideas for who I’d sus first. Not sure Luna would be top of the list if he’s town, but yes, I recall Luna’s previous effort to derail a lynch as scum.
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@Lunatic
I am not mis-representing your point. I know what you arguments are, and I percieve them to something you don't view them to be.
Considering that all of the specific challenges you’ve given to my reasoning have been points I’ve already explicitly agreed with, you’ll have to forgive me for seeing them as misrepresenting issues with my actual reasons for sussing Evil. It would be one thing if you were directly pointing to those reasons and challenging them or explaining how they’re really just noob/anti-town, but I’m seeing you dance around my actual reasoning and challenging points other people have made against Evil. I guess we won’t see eye to eye on that, but it’s frustrating to me that I have to keep reiterating that I agree with you every time you challenge some portion of my reasoning that I’ve explicitly said made me townread him initially.
If you think there is any merit to my read on pie or poly, please let us work together and obtain a lynch.
Well, I still think you’re wrong to dismiss Evil as town on the bases that you’ve used, though I wouldn’t be surprised if we couldn’t recruit more to it. I’ve given my whole reasoning and I don’t expect to convince holdouts now that Evil explicitly gave up, though I don’t think that that should result in people hopping off the lynch.
That being said, I stated that I wouldn’t consider a Pie lynch in this DP, at least not unless he does something that makes him stand out further, which is unlikely at this stage. I’m willing to consider a Poly lynch, though behaviorally, I find far less reason to sus him than I do Evil.
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@ILikePie5
I have seen your responses, I’ll get to them a bit later.
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@Lunatic
Luna, if you think I’m upset that you’re challenging my view, then you’re not understanding my frustration. I’m annoyed (don’t need to calm down, I’m not angry) that you have consistently misrepresented the reasons why I have sussed Evil. I don’t mind if you challenge them, I’m up for that. I’m not particularly fond of being told that you’re challenging my view when you haven’t really touched it. I haven’t said the word “anti-town” once in all my posts, and it hasn’t been implied, either. I haven’t focused on noob tells. I’ve gone so far as to specifically reject both types of behavior as reads for him being scum, yet you keep returning to them. This is the issue because you keep bringing up reasoning that I’ve already explicitly agreed with as challenges to my way of thinking. That’s why I’m sick of seeing it, and it’s honestly making me less certain of you that you’re ignoring large swaths of my points.
And yes, part of the reason I’m interested in lynching him is that I think it will give us some insights into other people on his lynch. I agree that scum as pushed for mislynches on him before. I did just that in the Pokémon game. I’m willing to consider Pie much more deeply as a lynch coming off of this one, particularly if he flips town. But I’m not joining that wagon in this DP.
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@Lunatic
Dude, I’m starting to get sick of this. I’ve pointed out that my reasoning isn’t based on the OMGUS several times, but you keep pointing back to the Pokémon game as evidence that he does it as town. I know he does it as town. I’ve defended him over it in this game. My reasoning has nothing to do with the OMGUS. I don’t know how many times I can say this before you acknowledge it. As my point.
I think a lot of your defense of Evil just speaks to what you’d expect of him as scum, and I can’t jive with that. We’ve never seen him as scum. We don’t know how he’d behave as scum. He’s a noob, and I suspect he’ll make noob mistakes as scum. I don’t think he’ll behave at all optimally, whether it’s about pushing a lynch on better targets or being more active and exhibiting a stronger defense of his efforts as scum. Should he be doing those things if he is scum? Yes. Would I be surprised if he was scum and wasn’t doing those things? No, and I think there’s enough behavioral reasons that separate him from his previous performances in the last two games to actively sus him in this game. I think distinguishing elements are better indicators with someone like him. You don’t have to agree, but that’s how I see it.
At the moment, based on what I’ve read so far, I would not consider a lynch on Pie. Nothing he’s said stands out to me as scummy, though there are nitpicky elements. I don’t agree that the use of “we” in Evil’s post is a scum slip, but I also don’t see Pie pushing it this hard as an indicator of his alignment.
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