zedvictor4

The core issue for me is understanding why.

And it cannot be definitively shown why or when such data becomes established within the mind of the Transgender person.

So until such time as when it can be proven to be an inherent malfunction, we can also consider that it may actually be an acquired syndrome.

renots a susej saw.

Defo a subliminal message.

Something about a renault and a sausage saw.

It's more than likely that archaic shamanism included the use of mind altering organic substances.

Old Abe was definitely on something when he went up that mountain.

Funny how you chose the word commit.

As we can see from the above, two party politics is divisive. .....You've got your inveterate right and you've got your inveterate left......Who expend most of their energy preaching to the converted, whilst ignoring the silent majority.....The moderates that actually decide the outcome of elections.

For sure, in terms of species development, decorative and cosmetic body modification is nothing new, and modern surgical and medical trends can be regarded as an evolutionary continuation I suppose....But this does suggest that we are only promoting a conceptual necessity rather than an inherent physiological necessity.

And anyway, not quite the same as a face full of tattoos and a ring through ones dick.

In short.......We think, we want and we can.

And also for sure......Because we can, we are happy to pay someone big bucks for it......Which is not really relative to the issue though.

Of course, everything remains unidentified until we are able to identify it.

So once we know it's a hypersonic missile with a million tonne nuclear warhead.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!.

Morality and ethics are variable concepts and not biologically inherent....Whereas variable natural ability is an inherent reality.

And murder currently happens for all sorts of reasons and is not particularly nice, and we know that. But murder is not directly relative to the topic.

But.....So no one works for someone.....Fine......But how the heck are you going to implement this philosophical pipedream?.....Especially when there will be no one to tell anyone what to do.....Or will there?

And who will do what when we are all equal?.....Or how will you motivate anyone to do anything, if you eradicate motivation and motivators from society?

As I stated, your ideal is some sort of reprogrammed human species, a clonal Utopia if you like.

And as I questioned previously, who or what is going to be creating and controlling this social Utopia?

So we can evolve conceptually, into a more caring, ethical and moral society, and I would suggest that this is happening, albeit very slowly. But as for eradicating natural hierarchy, I would suggest that this is still only a geneticists pipedream.....The geneticist who want's to change and control the species.

Hang on though!......Let's get ROBOTS to do everything for us and also leave them to control everything too......And we can just do........What?

And now we are all slaves to technology.

What a difference 157 years makes.

That's progress for you.

B:  A metaphor for the power of World Wide Web,

If you like.

In a shrinking World,

There's still a certain base reality to human function.

Western girls" put it out there, 

And eastern boys (all boys) pick it up.

And when the two worlds collide,

Who was it sent out the wrong signals?

Nah it's always the recipients fault.

Should come with a warning.

You can only look, but you can't touch,

Is like shutting the stable door when the horse is bolting,

As it were.

Or better still,

Don't put it out there in the first place.

Because the base message will be clear and understood. 

Roger that.

Over and out.

I never mentioned oppression and domination per se. Just natural hierarchical order.

Oppression and domination is emotive human terminology, for sorting out the pecking order.

 

We fall into place relative to ability, and we are rewarded relative to place.

And money amongst other things, becomes the reward and a mark of status.

You're committing the social fallacy, that suggests that humans and human society have become separated from species reality.

And your final statement said exactly what I have been saying.

Though you refer to it as inequality and I refer to it as natural hierarchy.

We are all born to be slaves to something.

So Big Brother.

I've no idea what your comparisons achieved, other than  to substantiate my claim that a hierarchical society is natural and essential and as always been so.

Wealth/money is simply the measure of success and status within a naturally hierarchical society.

So if everyone was exactly the same in terms of ability and wealth, how would anything ever get done?

You're really talking some sort of Utopian Clonal Society, where we are all programmed at birth and individualism has been eradicated.

Though have you stopped to consider..........Who or what will do the cloning and the programming?

I'm not necessarily looking for anything......Just questioning, a la debate forum.

Current trends are well established, in liberalised societies, and I always agree that physiological anomalies will inevitably occur.

So who wears the boxers or the knickers, is only relative to the old  concept of gender specific clothing. And for sure, people have been ignoring such ideas for years.

And who licks or sucks or fucks what, is only relative to the developed enjoyment of recreational sex.  And for sure,  people have been doing what ever floats their boat for years and years.

But explain why extreme mutilation and medical disfigurement is a normal healthy necessity, rather than a psychologically inspired social trend.

I'm too thick skinned for,

A plea to the emotions.

Which cuts no mustard.

Nor does an attempt at mockery.

A place for tit for tat jibing

And tit for tat jibing in it's place.

But explanations are still a bit thin on the ground,

And you have seemingly run out of them.

So much so that,

I am still not convinced,

That you have convinced me of anything.

Other than,

Everything that evolves is normal.

So no normalization required.

All options are available.

Sent him a message,

Don't know if he will get it.

I'm not much of a believer in heaven, see.

Nor was he..........RIP.

And if you keep heading in one direction,

You will only end up in the same station.

West is always relative to where?

Somewhere else when you get there.

And they keep coming,

And we don't return them.

Have you ever wondered why?

Small planet full of irrational people.

And who teaches them that "western" girls are easy.

Why! "Western" girls of course, cheesy sleazy.

On the interweb for all to see mate, 

Clickety click, no target audience for this date.

And where's it all heading Steve?

Any solutions up your sleeve?

Lord only knows hey?

If only.

So keep your head down and watch your back,

It's something for the pub when your brain goes slack.

Look left look right, because is it worth all the fuss?

And for goodness sake watch out for that bu............

Hormones.......Drive ya crazy.

Until your 60 and it all goes hazy

Though perhaps when y'all are LGBT.

The world will regain it's sanity..............LOL.

We can ditch the uniforms and and our weapon of mass dickstruction.

And utilise our weapons for another function.

Like parading around in frilly pink frocks.

And eating everyone's cake like Goldilocks.

Cheers. Zed.

You sound just like my dad, Stephen.

So the British and other Whitish and Darker European Colonialists and by association the North Americans, are just paying for their past successes and consequent failures, and have been doing so for quite a long time now.

Planet Earth is small.

And there's also lot to be said for the burqa's capacity to quell the flow of testosterone.

Just saying.

Regards Zed.

Is Oromagi your friend?

And anyway, If one is sufficiently technologically adept at crossing hundreds of light years of space.

Then why dither about at the last minute and just flash your lights?

Hmmmmmm, and in my dreams too, Poly is just like Scully.

But don't say I said so, because I will probably get a misconduct report.

Well.

With regard to the appearance, existence and development of matter.

I currently run with the idea that the truth was out there,

And that the truth will once again be out there.

I refer to this as the GOD principle.

Not to be confused with the floaty about bloke of the Arabian Tales.

Which to be fair, was also a reasonable GOD principle, but only relative to the naivety and available knowledge of the time.

Though that is also not to say, that it is impossible that a technologically and intellectually advanced floaty about bloke from elsewhere didn't once visit....Though this is unlikely.......Where are they and why didn't they come back?

Though I suppose that they could just have been on a Universal trip of a lifetime.

Maybe scaring hikers by setting fire to bushes, was just them japing around.

Nonetheless,

Whether humanity will ever be around to witness the creational truth,

Is an evens bet.

Maybe humanity is just a small cog in the evolutionary machine.

Or even a big cog.

Don't let's underestimate human achievements.

Though I think that the developers of matter are the real achievers, rather than the tellers of tall tales.

The truth is out there......Any ideas?

Regards Zed.

And for a moderate person such as I, who respects the freedom of the individual.

I also expect to be allowed the freedom to fully question all aspects of what is a fairly new social and physiological phenomena.

Though that is not to say, that developmental anomalies have never occurred prior to the current trend.

Nonetheless there is no definitive explanation for the current trend, so it must be expected that questions will be raised especially within a discussion forum.

After all this is not a justification and sympathy site, is it?

Or perhaps unquestioning acceptance, is what some people expect.

It's also a common vehicle for those who seek to be socially correct in the eyes of a certain liberal haut monde.

I'm sure that means something to you, in your own individual data processing way.

Is reality real or not I ask myself.

Enlightenment and spirituality....Internal responses to a sensory stimulus.

The brain is an amazing thing for sure.

Up and at it with the Larks Stephen.

Is the bible on it's own not good enough proof of the resurrection.

In short....NO.

Wouldn't it be great if you three could meet up for a beer and a chat?

I wonder what you would chat about?

Regards all.

Zed.

Are we actually talking perception here.

Or just an arbitrary unsubstantiated  response to unsubstantiated data input.

I would suggest that perception is just the process of data acquisition, rather that the subsequent internal manipulation and modification of said data.

What one might refer to as the output of an unsubstantiated opinion, rather than perception-speak.

Just saying.

So why do you suggest, that transgenderism requires normalizing?

Surely transgenderism is either normal or it isn't.

I would suggest that previously taboo issues, become socially acceptable.

Which does not necessarily imply any real sense of normality to the issue in question.

So some things were once commonplace social activities, such as wife beating, witch burning, and sex with people under the age of sixteen.

So have they been abnormalized or are they just no longer socially acceptable.

Though this depends upon where one lives I suppose. Which would imply that such activities are not necessarily abnormal.

Nonetheless my overall perspective on social development, leads me to conclude that all that evolves is normal.

Though that does not negate the Freudian slip, whereby to suggest that something requires normalization, also implies that that something was previously abnormal.

But Hey...Chop you dick of Bruce....You won't be the first and you won't be the last......And I honestly, care not......Because all that evolves is normal.

Wow......Opens up a whole big can of other worms though.

If you don't know who said what, then you don't know what was said, if anything.

Which maketh the Arabian Tales a book of Arabian tales.

And I recognise the Jesus character from the aforementioned book of Arabian Tales.

And I recognise and understand the meaning of the word esoteric.

Put the two together and you get....I know not what.

So esoteric perhaps, that only DL knows.

A tad contradictory to say the least......Need I explain?

At some comparatively recent moment in time your internal data processing unit  acquired data and responded to it in a particular way.

Which to be fair, is what we all do, thanks to our evolved ability to acquire, store, manipulate and respond to data.....Such is insightfulness.

Nonetheless, this in know way confirms any accuracy upon old transcriptions of much older folk tales.

OK, so with a reasonable level of confidence we can conclude that the Arabian Tales do correspond with known regional locations and also with socio-political developments of the time.

Though the later additions of second hand accounts of second hand accounts, regarding supernatural intervention and supernatural events, inevitably results in a typically mythological narrative.

For example, the tales of  King Arthur still evoke "insightfulness" and a sense of spirituality in a great many people.

So is there any real difference between the mythical characters of Jesus and King Arthur, other than that established within a person or persons acquired esotericism?

Just questioning.

Peace be with you though.

Regards Zed.

You said it.

Freudian slip perhaps?

The reason why rich people are rich and poor people are poor, is a much more complex sociological issue than just who does what and who pays what tax.

I could write a dissertation on the subject, but I don't have either the time or the inclination to do so.

"The rich" are rich for a reason and an essential part of a healthy and productive social system.

Just as the not so well of are not so well off for a reason, and are also an essential part of a healthy and productive social system.

Over taxing the rich and redistributing wealth would cause the system to stagnate.

Wealth envy is what it is, and an inevitable consequence of a healthy and productive social system.

A. Sex is inherent function and GODS and marriage are separately contrived social concepts. And relative to the human ability to recall and manipulate, we came/come up with all sorts of other stuff too, including a diversity of recreational sexual activities..  And I do not accept anything as true, that is not already a fact. Belief is a bit of a silly and rather counterproductive word.

B. And it cannot be proven that a GOD said anything....The Bible/s were the words of people, compiled by people. So you might choose to believe, but this also proves nothing.

C. I would like to know answers for sure, but such answers do not lie in the pages of a much translated and transcribed book of 2000 year old Arabian folk tales. These at best should be regarded as naive hypotheses.

D. You won't get hatred from me, nor from most moderate people......How we are data programmed is more than likely what we will become ideologically, me and you both, and 7.9 billion other different versions. In terms of an emotional response "hatred" comes at the top of the scale, and is often glibly used out of context.

I don't doubt it.

But as I regularly say.....All social systems are essential the same anyway....Based upon  hierarchical structure, and methods of governance and enforcement.

How things pan out in the real world obviously varies, but there is no State that functions solely on the basis of shared resources and social equality. 

Societies just do not develop and function in such a way.

I was asking them not to quote the bible as some sort of authority on morality.

Because the writings in said book contrived by people, is as morally hypocritical as people themselves.

For sure, quote it for the purposes of historical reference.

Nonetheless, mythology shouldn't be regarded as sound factual evidence.

Nor should archaic ideology be regarded as a blueprint for how we live our lives today.

I bet you, that John (who probably wasn't named John) never uttered the words quickeneth or profiteth.

And the nature of the beast, dictates that we all think within our own box.

Yin and Yang.

Equilibrium.

@Poly

Do you not mean Ostara?

The time when you worship Eostre.

It's only not connected if you choose not to connect it.

Have you never heard of satire?

One opinionated young man high on testosterone not necessarily representative of the wider Muslim community.

Read the headlines Stephen, people of all ethnic persuasions go around fatally stabbing on a regular basis.....No ideology necessary.

Just keep your head down mate and you should be OK.

Are you another selective moralist?

Or are you a hermit that lives in a remote cave,

Who only absorbs water and nutrients from stalactites.

Death sustains life.......It's the inevitability of survival.

And only caring about human life, is human bias.

And only caring about certain foetuses and certain people is hypocritical.

And don't quote the Bible

Because the Bible is awash with moral contradictions.

People have always had twisted ideology.

It's a people thing.

I agree.

I've got an old red tartan one and as I prefer tea I just use it for hot water and keep the teabags separate.

Though I do occasionally have hot chocolate, which stays hot during.

And I always wash it out afterwards.

Before the vacuum people drank a lot more cider.

Is this helpful?

Sex is inherent function.

And marriage is evolved but unnecessary/necessary conceptual non-sense/sense.....Based upon factors other than the necessities of sexual function

And this is 2022, and people still keep teaching 2000 year old biblical BS....One of the drawbacks of highly evolved systems of memory and manipulation.

All good fun I suppose.

Especially if next doors missus is up for it.

Just watch out for piously perverted stone throwers though.........They're just repressed and jealous and can only get their kicks from throwing stones at women.....Because her indoors is pregnant yet again, or has just generally let herself go, as it were.

Call me cynical if you like.

Haven't read the whole thread so don't know if you're a fellow cynic, religious nutter or just a moderate sort of questioning type person.

As ever.....GOD principle sound.....Floaty about bloke not so.

I don't think that Jenner is particularly media shy.

If one  doesn't want people to know and consequently express opinions....Then one should keep ones gob shut.

No....Socialism is a specific political theory. 

None of the States that you listed function in that way.....They are all a part of the global "capitalist" system.

How people look out for each other in terms of social fairness/care, is a separate issue influenced by other geographic, demographic and political factors.

Is it really fair to compare the U.S.A with Estonia, or even Germany or Canada.

Better to compare the U.S.A with Russia......Which would be your preferred destination?

I'm pretty sure I know who Estonia and Germany would prefer to have as allies, especially in terms of fairness.

Ten reasonable places to live for sure.

Same hierarchical systems, but with a fairer collective mind set.

Nothing truly socialist though.

I'm perfectly happy here in the U.K.

Tolerance has to evolve....Means exactly what it says.

As I suggested, tolerance has certainly evolved in the UK within my lifetime.

Or you could just label it as It.

Or let's just think up a new word.

Hmmmmmmmm: 

How about.

If you think about it, every regime is basically the same....Based upon natural hierarchy and inherent selfishness.

It's simply a case of where you choose to stick your ism.

Marxist socialism was a hypocritical delusion of the bourgeoise and has never successfully been implemented.....Good intentions immediately became the same old grind for the proletariat, more than likely brutally so.

Can you think of any truly socialist States?.....Where everyone is equal and everything is shared......Nope it just doesn't work like that, to implement and maintain such a State, also requires a system of governance and enforcement.....Same old, same old.

A thought is a thought, relative to an individual.

"Half baked" is a thought relative to you. 

It's a tad arrogant, if we expect everyone to think as we do.

Thoughts are derived from past experiences and will therefore vary relative to conditioning.

Tolerance has to evolve..........Tolerance cannot be forced upon people, otherwise outcomes are more likely to be negative.

Though I'm reasonably confident that more and more people do think things through.

I'm a moderate and do not pander to media, I make my own observations and come to my own conclusions.

And Jaimaica seeking $10 billion in so called reparations is a race baiting political show.   And let's be frank, where would most of that money end up if they got it.

Nope...The perpetuation of the old colonial race game is very good for business.

And "sociological thing" for sure....That was my point......Don't expect to click your fingers and change humanity in an instant.....How many millions of years has it taken to get to this point?

Perhaps you indulge in race baiting political shows more than I do.

Biden remains a clear example to the sane, that old age doesn't necessarily equate to competency.

Just as Trump should remain a clear example to the sane, that the shady world of big business doesn't necessarily equate to Presidential competency.

Keep taking the disinfectant.

Is what is known as Dictating.

Data processing and analysis relative to acquired conditioning is simply what we do, so not irrational.

But for sure we can also modify our responses relative to ongoing data acquisition and processing.

That is to say, learn to be more tolerant of others.

Though as my specific example suggests, discrimination is far from a black and white issue relative to historical European colonialism.

We've moved on a few hundred years and several generations since then, to a point where the boot of the black and white issue in terms of racism  is now very much on the the other foot too....If not more so.

The black and white thing is now politically inspired big business for some, so there would certainly be a lot to lose if everyone shook hands and agreed to move on.

Though let's be fair, most moderate people of all skin tones, moved on a long time ago.....Species evolution in progress as it were.

Nonetheless my brief  analysis is perhaps more applicable to current U.K. society.......Maybe in the U.S there is a greater possibility of a more insular and therefore polarized demographic relative to geographic scale.