Total posts: 14,006
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@Athias
Is rational that which occurs as a result of standard physiological processes?......Whatever they are.
How would you define rational Mr A?
What actually is and isn't rational?
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@Polytheist-Witch
Never quite know who you are referring to Poly.
Nonetheless.
If we didn't "run our mouths", our screens would be blank.
And you're certainly adept at running your own mouth.
"Ignorant pieces of crap" is one such example that springs to mind.
And just as I swagger.
So does Trade strutt his stuff.
And I imagine you, dancing naked around a sacrificial alter, in a voodooesque frenzy.
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@oromagi
People will hold him up as a symbol of whatever they want to believe in. But we're getting further and further away from the man that he was.
Sounds familiar.
Scroll back 1600 years, into the even dimmer past.
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@MonkeyKing
The words of Men.
Variously interpreted by Men..........(And perhaps latterly Women got to have a say).
Men create GODS in recognisable images, and attribute them with dialogue.
Storytelling.
What's new?
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@thett3
So by your own admission you are selectively moral.
And by definition so am I.
And things annoy me, but they don't depress me.
Our conditioned sensibilities are similar but different, relative to that which influenced or influences us.
As far as I am concerned, a blob of human foetal tissue is no more or less important than the chicken that is now southern fried.
You assess such data and draw different conclusions, and respond accordingly.
Such is one aspect of what it is to be human.
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@Tarik
So right and wrong as moral concepts, may or may not be correct assumptions.
But one would not refer to correct and incorrect as moral concepts.
Do you appreciate the difference?
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@Polytheist-Witch
Not sure of your logic there Poly.
As far as I am concerned, all the situations that you draw attention to, are simple down to variable data analysis and consequent conclusions.
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@Tradesecret
Everyone's mind goes there.
it's instinctive programming.
How one addresses such things, is variously imaginative.
I would loosely suggest though, that Reece101's religion, describes certain attributes of reasonable people.
Though said people might also have other places that they go to sometimes.
Like Godsville for example.
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@sadolite
Nice.
Trouble is though, kids have got devices that do all that for them.
The same devices that tell them what to think.
Schools are just a place to hang out with devices these days.
I imagine that we will eventually lose all autonomy.
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@Tradesecret
As I clearly stated.
The same old questions.....The same old religious baloney.....You cannot prove the existence of your specific GOD....Therefore I do not need to ask anything further.
So what more do you expect.
Or has someone recently added a few extra chapters to the bible (with grid references) without letting on to us "swaggering" atheists.
I just asked my wife if I swaggered a lot.
And she said, not that she had noticed.
So jibe for jibes sake.
If atheists swagger.
Then theists gasconade.
To gasconade is a bit like a swagger, but with a more ostentatious rolling of the buttocks and pouting of the lips.
Trade....."Moves like Jagger".
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@Tradesecret
Well no.
Classics was never my strong point.
Typically you focus on the Hubble quip and ignore the rest.
Nonetheless I accept the heaven concept, relative to the reasons given previously. (Exclude the Hubble quip)
"Belief" in concepts such as gods and heaven, is what it is though......Acceptance without real proof.
So where exactly is heaven?
Maybe your specific GOD utilises exoplanets somewhere.
So how would we get there?
Even travelling at light speed it would take millions of years.
Or is it just more theistic magic?
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@Tarik
True.
Generalizing gives us a basic understanding of things.
But we cannot be sure of the details, based solely upon generalizations.
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@thett3
For sure.
What you mourn for is relative to how your sensibilities are set, in terms of ideologies and moral selectivity etc.
Some people mourn for the millions of animals that a slaughtered every day.....Do you also choose this as a focus of your selective mourning?
What about all the lives lost due to the U.S. led war on terror?
Are you absolutely moral?
Or are you a typical human, picker and chooser?
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@Tradesecret
Well the Hubble telescope hasn't spotted it yet.
In my opinion heaven is an internal data construct, relative to death and the uncertainty thereof.
Basically, thinking up a nice solution to a worrying thought.
Overthink because we do.
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@Tradesecret
What is sin?
I suppose it's an assumption that something is intrinsically wrong.
I am of the opinion that anything that can occur is intrinsically possible.
And sin, assumptions, wrong and beliefs are human data constructs relative to human data constructs.
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@Bones
Shit.
But you have to pay for pizza and smart devices.
We're all hooked into the system.
You, me and the Taliban.
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@Stephen
Well you're probably aware of how I view the integrity of translated and transcribed folk tales.
Thor and his hammer and all that sort of stuff.
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@Polytheist-Witch
The only one displaying anything near hate in this thread, is you Poly.
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@Dr.Franklin
Fair enough Doc.
Top of the morning to ya.
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@Stephen
Perhaps GOD hypnotised them.
Or they'd been on a bender the night before.
I'm sure Poly knows.
Though Joe was clearly a bit stupid.
And Mary....Well we know the sort of thing Mary liked to get up to.
So perhaps Mary spent the day with a "GOD".
And left stupid Joe in charge of the boy.
Anyone's guess really Stephen.
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@Tarik
That correctness is irrelevant in regards to info.
Well I don't think that I have ever made such a generalization as that.
In fact the basis of this discussion was the understanding of right and wrong, rather than the implications of correctness and incorrectness.
Two different things altogether. Though grammatically we do sometimes use the former to represent the latter.
Within the context of this discussion, I assumed that your reference to right and wrong, was with regard to your understanding of morality and ethicality, rather than the practical application of data.
Obviously incorrect data is largely (but not always) impractical......(Incorrectness is sometimes the necessary precursor to correctness).
Whereas I have clearly stated that right and wrong can be considered within both a social and universal (philosophical) context.
Socially we make collective judgements, which we do or don't abide by, and universally there is no actual judgement to be made.
So in both instances in terms of relevance or irrelevance, conclusions are therefore always eventually personal and subjective.
Or as personal and subjective as it is possible to be, within the constraints of social and inherent conditioning.....Free will and all that stuff.
Things are never so cut and dried Tarik, to be able to make sweeping generalizations.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Because Poly.
The same stupid questions.
Always get the same stupid answers.
If you're going to promote fantastical ideologies.....You need to be able to back them up with something more substantial than Middle Eastern folk tales and myth.
So Poly....Just unequivocally prove the existence of a specific GOD.....And I expect that Stephen will stop asking "stupid questions".
And you obviously do give a s***.......Because you continually respond with angry rants.
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@thett3
Not much difference in the hair.
So might all boil down to height.
Though from certain angles, McAuliffe has as a slight nasal disadvantage too.
Are U.S. voters that shallow.
I think that they probably are.
Though I also think that the depth of most peoples political considerations, wouldn't be enough for them to get their feet wet.
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@thett3
Go read miscarriage, still birth and infant mortality statistics and you will be suicidal.
It's all cause and effect Thett3.
And man is a bastard
As is GOD then.
Just look on the bright side.
Helps curb population growth and it's global demands.
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@Polytheist-Witch
I expect that some atheists and theists for that matter, are misandrists.
Though the fact is, that the majority of gender non-specific people, are reasonable.
Can we say the same for you Poly?
Given some of the misrepresentative vitriolic generalizations that you have been promoting recently.
Atheists are atheists for a very good reason Poly.
As well you know.
So before you slander your Debateart associates any further.....Please, very simply, will you prove beyond doubt, the existence of a supernatural deity.
Any deity will do.
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@Tradesecret
I was trying to think how best to describe the Christian bible.
And I came up with semi-consistent.
In so much as it's an ongoing thematic rehashed development of a basically, hypothetical, supernatural premise, centred around a small regional group of people and their associated folk tales.
This atheists position is best described as super-consistent.
Theists must firstly prove the basic supernatural hypothesis.
This atheist is happy to accept the regional supernatural folk tales for what they are.
That is to say, a certain amount of regional fact, embellished with fantasy....Namely MYTH.
So whereas Stephen wants clarification of all the minor biblical details.
All that I want, is real proof of the major detail.
Let's start at the beginning and take it from there.
I'm certainly not ready to take on board the notion, that some dude was nailed to a post for my sins.....Where's the logic in that?
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@Tarik
Information is information is data.
Irrespective of correctness.
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@Dr.Franklin
What language do you speak Doc?
Based upon such criteria, perhaps I should regard you as my English brother.
Though see FLRW above, for more clarification on the subject of Columbus's language and national identity.
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@Dr.Franklin
Sorry Doc but:
Italian is a label attached to people who were born within the Nation State of Italy.....Since 1815
Columbus was labelled as Genoan......Some 300 or so years before 1815.......Italians didn't exist then Doc.
And anyway, your overlooking the fact that Columbus was actually working for the Spanish.
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@Tarik
What data is that exactly?
Quite a lot...About 61 years worth....Too much to list.
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@sadolite
#21, #22, #23.
Nicely stated.
Firing on all cylinders Mr S.
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@Swagnarok
If I knew what Swagnarok was on about.....Would that make me a better person?
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@sadolite
You didn't really need to include the word "incestual".
But do the said hypotheticals, chew grass, pluck the banjo, not wear shoes and live in the swampy backwoods?
Just trying to intensify the imagery.
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@949havoc
OK.........I see what you're getting at now
So see #7, third statement.
And the rapist to be successful must oppress.
But that doesn't negate primary motivation.....Chemical messaging as it were.
Similarly and no doubt controversially.
I would suggest that the primary response of the oppressed is submission.
Observing other non-conceptually driven species, might put this statement into perspective.
As a species we are motivated by a not necessarily cohesive mixture of instinct and concept.
Which is easily misunderstood and misrepresented.
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@secularmerlin
#3
A tad abstruse.
Needs exemplifying and clarifying.
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@Stephen
A conditioned theist will repeat the data that they feel compelled to repeat.
The conditioned atheist is the same I suppose.
Though relative to acquired human knowledge, the atheist now has the benefit of logic on their side.
The Hubble Telescope, sort of puts into perspective, a floaty about bloke that nails his kids to wooden crosses for our sins.
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@secularmerlin
What would a society be like with total freedom of the individual?
Anarchic I suppose.
And I don't fancy anarchy much.
British society is currently, just fine by me.
I work, I have a niche, and I am sufficiently content.
Perhaps the problem isn't a lack of freedom, but the bondage of over expectation.
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@949havoc
I would definitely agree with that.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
For sure.
But the pieces are individual parts.
So even if cut into 100 individual parts.
We can still SAY that 100 = 1.
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@949havoc
I think that we probably have a certain amount of agreement with regard to gender issues.
Though your initial sentence still leaves me somewhat baffled.
As for rape....I would certainly disagree....And suggest that rape is primarily motivated by sexual desire.
Power, achievement and satisfaction are the inevitable secondary benefits that the rapist acquires from the act.
Basically, animal instinct, gratification and empowerment.
As conceptual thinkers, we have a tendency to overlook reality in favour of intellectual concepts.
Such has become our preferred approach to rape, gender and a wide variety of other issues.
Social evolution, if you like.
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@Stephen
@Tradesecret
A love, hate relationship.
Two minds inextricably locked
In a remotely passionate binary embrace.
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@949havoc
A male kid is a male kid and a dress is a dress.
I see loads of female kids wearing trousers.
Clothes is just about conditioned expectation.
Just a thought.
And rape is rape, and the allegations thereof, is whole different ball game to gender identity.
So what was the actual message in your post?....As I couldn't really work it out.
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@949havoc
Biden's biggest issue is his age.
The next election probably won't be decided by the Us and Them majority, but once again by the minority of the thoughtfully undecided.
Of course, ably assisted by the undemocracy that is the U.S. Presidential Election Process and Circus.
And to a certain degree, by how big a shift there is towards, or reaction against, liberal thinking.
The grass is always greener, as it were.
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@949havoc
I would suggest that all organisms have material properties, and are generated and maintained by an energy principle (life), which could be referred to as spirit.
Whether such properties are residual after material decay, is speculative, but nonetheless a reasonable proposition.
I would further suggest that the nature and possible purpose of said hypothetical residue, becomes so speculative that it quickly ascends without any chance of verification, into the fantastical.
Though I see no reason why all living organisms should not possess the same properties.
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