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@Mesmer
Every argument can be sourced.
Point of view...Source.
It's a chicken and egg dilemma.
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Round and round and round it goes.
Where it ends no one knows.
Though, 5 stars for Cross Pacific consense
But for goodness sake.
Don't tell the French.
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@Mesmer
Ramshutu didn't make a substantial argument.
Ramshutu, invariably makes substantial arguments.
Argument is invariably about disagreement.
So a conditioned mind must learn to accept disagreement.
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@MonkeyKing
In terms of a beginning you would undoubtedly lack the same knowledge as I do....As every one else did or does.
Knowledge of a 2000 year old hypothesis is simply that.
Though as I stated, a 2000 year old hypothesis falls a few billion years short of the mark.
And Hyrum Smith was a product of his day and his particular environment.
And just like us, Hyrum didn't actually have a clue.
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@EtrnlVw
NO BELIEF.
I will run with any sensible idea....Input data...Assess and manage data....Perhaps come to a conclusion....Maybe not.
Current magic bloke, non-sense....Input data...Reassess and manage data...Probably come to a conclusion....Though maybe not, should new and sensible data ever be made available.
I find your current GOD ideas equally as humorous.
And belief and knowing are antonymous in my World.
And you and Mr E believe in reality....For sure....In so much as your realities, are you realities.
And mine is mine...And I can do little else other that accept that.
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@EtrnlVw
Nope.
As clearly stated elsewhere....I do not BELIEVE in fantasy tales.
I ACCEPT the principle of purpose....Which can be referred to as a GOD principle....Can be labelled as a FRED principle if you like....It's just that the label GOD is a well established one.
I also accept the idea of purposelessness.
In terms of universe, popular religion is a recent and typical stab in the dark (It was a magic bloke what did it)....Though in terms of knowledge, popular religion is an archaic and unscientific stab in the dark.(It was a magic bloke what did it).
So you believe in magic blokes.....No problem.....That's just your conditioned way of coping.
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@EtrnlVw
I ACCEPT the idea of a GOD principle.
I DO NOT BELIEVE in 2000 year old fantasy tales.
And Mr Ethan thinks...And so Mr Ethan temporarily presumes to be aware of an external reality.
And for the same reason MrEVw presumes to be aware of a GOD.
Dodgy word belief....Somewhat self-contradicting.
One can only believe what one can actually know....Though if one can actually know something then one doesn't need to believe.....Therefore one can only believe in something that cannot be known.
So believe actually disproves a known GOD.
Sorted.
And Goodnight America.
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@EtrnlVw
If one believes in a purposeful universe, then GOD can be all things to all things.
Stylized deities are but one option.
And the Christian GOD is but one of many stylized deities.
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@ethang5
Nope.
Awareness and reality is all between your ears Mr E.
No brain...Nothing....Zilch.
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@MonkeyKing
I have a conditioned database, just like everyone else.
So I assess and manage data input and output relative to pre-set parameters.
To me, attributing credibility to supernatural hypotheses has always seemed irrational.
And nothing has ever caused me to think differently.
Spirituality is an internal response to a perceived stimulus....Real enough within that context....But never exceeding that context.
And "GOD" is one of many internally constructed labels we attribute to such internal spiritual conclusions.
Our databases are limited by the unavailability of knowledge.....So any GOD based assumption can only ever be what it is.
In my conditioned opinion....A 2000 year old superhuman hypothesis, just falls a few billions of years short of the mark.
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@ethang5
There is your awareness, and there is reality.
Absolutely, perhaps probably true, maybe.
But your awareness of anything is only in the one place.
Between your ears Mr E.
And that's the only place your reality is too.
External reality is a perception based conclusion, all figured out internally.
And bugger all to do with politics.
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@Fruit_Inspector
Everything might be chance.
Chance or purpose are seemingly the two options.
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@ethang5
Reality does not reside between your ears.
Nice goad Mr E.
But if you think about it logically.
Between ones ears is the only place in the universe where one can presume to be aware of reality.
As ever....Data in...Data assessment and management....Data out.
Mr E thinks, therefore he probably is.
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@Polytheist-Witch
The only way to depopulate is to shift the birth to death ratio in favour death.
There are many ways to do this. Though two main strategies.
1. Long term population management.
2 Short term radical depopulation
If you are a Right Wing, conspiracy enthusiast you will probably favour the former, but no doubt assume the latter whatever.
The career woman strategy has been running successfully for several decades now in the West....It just needs to catch on globally.
Though, not sure if the Taliban will favour such radical change.
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@TheUnderdog
Our response to 9/11 was way overblown.
Well stated.
And our intellectual left wing lick arse Blair was certainly cringeworthy too.
But nonetheless, the Lefties and the Righties stood shoulder to shoulder.
And set off once again on a righteous crusade to the dark and despairing regions of Central Asia.
To teach those heathen Afghan goat herds and pomegranate farmers a lesson that they would never forget.
And once again those proud warriors, returned victorious.
Bathed in the glory of having achieved absolutely fuck all.
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@ethang5
It is irrational to assume God.
Well, at least you're being honest
And for sure.
Sci-fi and the supernatural have been entertaining readers and filmgoers for centuries.
And as if by magic.
A God appeared.
Or was it Mr Benn.
LOL.
Perhaps you were tired Mr E.
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@Dr.Franklin
That was something of a hate speech Doc.
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@TheUnderdog
I always thought that States were split up in to Counties.
Isn't it all about descending levels of responsibility and administration.
U.S.A or U.C.A.......Splitting hairs really.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Watching atheists tell people they have to believe every word if the Bible is fact to be Christian is hysterical.
Well Poly.
If that statement had been understandable.
Then it might have been understandable.
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@ethang5
So who "started" the floaty about bloke of your picture book bible Mr E.
I would suggest that your GOD also contradicts science.
Hey.......He's just been floating about for ever.
Sure thing Batman.
And where did he find the raw materials?
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@EtrnlVw
You said it.
Intelligent dialogue.
And belief.
True.
You believe
And I respond with intelligent dialogue.
Basic truth.
You are unable to know or explain how anything can exist.
Ooops.
It was a God what did it,
I forgot.
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@DeadFire27
You're 12 and yet you're a teenager.
You're from the UAE.
And you're a Questioning Christian.
Can this be true?
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@Ramshutu
There's a housing shortage because:
A. There are to many people.
B. Because housing is viewed as a capitalist asset rather than a human right.
Sad but true.....Some people can only expect to live in a cardboard box....And some people expect that some people must live in cardboard boxes.
Social hierarchy dictates.
And very few genuinely care.
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@DeadFire27
You joined this site as a participating human, wearing a tentative label.
So why should an amalgamated blob of matter go anywhere other that here, when it decomposes?
Data is the product of internal function, which ceases upon death.
To assume that acquired data/thoughts/spirit are residual, is just conditioned/wishful thinking.
At best, we pass on our "spirit" to our children.
And deities are make believe....Imaginative options rather than, real options.
Realism, not Atheism.
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@Polytheist-Witch
How do you know "he's" a he, when "he's" invisible?
A tad assumptive methinks.
In fact, how do you know it's anything at all?
Perhaps you just think that it is.
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@RationalMadman
You confuse sarcasm and cynicism.
To a greater extent, I was agreeing with your previous sentiments concerning privacy.
Though as I see it, if we embrace technological progress, then we must also embrace the inevitable consequences of technology.
As I stated....Privacy is now out of the window.
I was also extolling Arthur Blairs prophetic virtues.
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@Fruit_Inspector
A major reduction in the human population would be good for the planet.
But not necessarily viewed as good by human participants.
Survival and procreation are primary drives and not easily suppressed.
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@Greyparrot
For sure...That's the current approach, and therefore what currently defines pragmatism.
And the system that I conform with.
Though "incentive" is not necessarily necessary.
But "incentive" is what defines natural hierarchy.
Fortunately I have a comfortable enough niche within that hierarchical system.
And I will hopefully be OK for another 20 years or so.
So I will continue to stick a few pounds into the charity box to assuage my conscience.
Not that I have a conscience that requires much assuaging.
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@EtrnlVw
@RationalMadman
Whose GOD/GODESS/GENDER NEUTRAL DEITY?
Which GOD/GODESS/GENDER NEUTRAL DEITY?
What GOD/GODESS/GENDER NEUTRAL DEITY?
GOD/GODESS/GENDER NEUTRAL DEITY in what format?
1. An eternal floaty about, supernatural bloke/woman/gender neutral, as mentioned in archaic legends.....Is just as much the impossibility of something from nothing as everything else is.
2. Alien ancestor/s....Alien ancestors are a possibility, but logistically unlikely....And are also, ultimately subject to the above limitations of 1.
3. Or simply, the principle that gives material evolution purpose.....I tend to loosely run with this option.....An ongoing sequence of events, though nonetheless still subject to the ultimate limitations of 1. and 2.
The fact is, no one is actually able to know or explain, how anything can exist.
(We are all constrained by what we have been to conditioned to think. relative to ongoing data input, but defined to a greater extent by formative data input).
And the opposite of something, is just as bewildering a thought.
And personal experiences are exactly that.....Self contained, data processed responses....One thinks, therefore one is.
So one thinks a GOD is, therefore a GOD is only a thought.
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@Greyparrot
Exactly.
Unfortunately I'm as constrained by social convention as everyone else is.
I was simply pointing out that:
On the one hand we can presume to care about affordable housing.
Whilst on the other hand we are not really prepared to consider the aspirations of all.
Natural hierarchy dictates....Perhaps out of a greater evolutionary necessity.
Just a hunch.
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@Fruit_Inspector
"Massive human death" is not a good thing for humans.
As we are all individually selfish.
For the same reason I do not oppose vaccines.
My honest opinion is that things will carry on in a similar fashion, until we reach a point of actual unsustainability, or until a natural disaster occurs.
The former is probably the more likely.
Though that is not to say that media inspired global re-education, does not have potential.
The obvious and undeniable conclusion, is that things will happen as they do.
Though my experiences and input are very much time limited.
As are everyone's.
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@RationalMadman
Privacy is out of the window RatMan.
Big Bro.
Arthur Blair.
For sure.
Brain implants coming to a store near you, soon.
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@Fruit_Inspector
Eternal destruction.
Yep, as I suggested.
But what if Allah gets here first?
Though I personally have always assumed that destruction was eternal.
So I won't be disappointed.
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@n8nrgmi
If we really cared about housing people, then housing would be free for all.
Similarly, if we cared about feeding people, then food would be free for all.
And the list could go on.
But that just ain't how people function.
People are instinctively selfish and slaves to money.
And now slaves to devices.
I wonder why?
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@Intelligence_06
I think that the word you were looking for was CYNICAL......Rather than IRONIC.
I think that Mesmer's CYNICAL button is still functioning OK.
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@Fruit_Inspector
Nope.
Can't see enforced sterilization working.
It will probably require some sort of catastrophic event.
Something that cannot be argued with.
Maybe climate catastrophe is a good thing.
Maybe a virus.
Maybe an asteroid
Maybe a nuclear war.
Super volcano.
You never know...Perhaps GOD will come back and sort it all out.
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@Greyparrot
Well.....Living standards is a multi-faceted issue.
Without going into great depth.....There's nothing wrong with maintaining certain living standards.
Reducing or removing certain unnecessary or burdening expectations, would perhaps be more beneficial.
Though how do you begin to implement such radical social change?
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@Mesmer
Nigeria is certainly a National Region predominated by humans that exhibit a dark skin tone.
Though I'm not certain that Nigerians will find much encouragement in your ensuing rhetoric.
And I'm not certain that many Asians, Jews or Middle Easterners will be greatly encouraged by your propositions either.
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@Fruit_Inspector
I'm sure that "The World" will be fine.
It's the sustainability of humanity at current levels with current demands, that is the issue.
A major reduction in human population wouldn't be a bad thing.
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@Mesmer
That's illogical and fallacious.
People waste their own time.
I can't do it for them.
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@sadolite
You're perhaps of the age where you weren't taught to care, never needed to care, and where you don't need to care.
Me too....But I do care.
Kids are taught to care now, so that's how people will evolve and process data in the future.
Trump is a remnant of the past.
Unfortunately, the U.S still has lots of them, remnants of the past that is.
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@949havoc
Well stated.
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@Intelligence_06
Well, definitively "fake" means not the real thing.
And a copy is a reproduction of something.
A copy only becomes a fake if it is presented as the original.
So a valid copy is still a representative artefact and worthy of recognition.
Whereas, it is the intent behind fakery that is recognised as being unworthy.
Though that is not to say that the skill in producing a good fake, is not artistic and not worthy of recognition.
In the end it really all boils down to money.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Data in, data out Poly
You're confusing internal reality and external reality.
Imagination and what can actually be known.
Yep I know...It's the nature of the human beast.
We've evolved to rely upon concept rather than instinct.
Which might or might not be purposeful.
Though neither you nor I, actually know Poly.
Nonetheless, even from my non-deistic point of view.
GOD PRINCIPLE is still sound.......(Not to be confused with biblical floaty about blokes).
But floaty about goodies and baddies, not sound at all.
Ethereal, bearded, be-robed Northern European Man with flowing locks of blond hair.....Or Red Man with big horns... LOL.
It's the stuff of imagination and picture books Poly.
All down to variable data management, and ongoing and variable data transfer.
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@Mesmer
So you cannot explain in words greater than "Nope".
No problem.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Atheism addresses that which you do not want addressed.
If rational argument isn't your objective on a DEBATING website....Then ditch the technology and go hug a tree.
Though true.....Discussions that involve certain people, rapidly exceed the rational and inevitably descend into chaos.....Theists and atheists alike.
Nonetheless Poly.....Rather than just saying things like the "eternity of spirit".....Why not actually try and explain what it is you are saying?
The fact is that theism is full of meaningless and unexplained soundbites, such as "the eternity of spirit" and the "connection of spirit and god".
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@Polytheist-Witch
Atheists believe.
Something of a contradiction in terms Poly.
Theists believe......... In a GOD..... Therefore theists are more likely to believe in a GOD's antithesis.
Atheists do not accept that which cannot be known.....And so consequently, neither GODS nor their antitheses are accepted.
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@ethang5
I'm sensible
Your sensible
All relative to acquired data.
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@RationalMadman
Seriously, get a life.
And stop worrying about trivia.
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@Mesmer
One assumes that something that is logical, therefore isn't fallacious.
And so something that is fallacious won't be logical.
Can you explain why not in words greater than "Nope".
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