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@DavidAZ
Evil men and seducers.
Could just as easily mean priests and zealots seducing and perverting the minds of children with unnecessary religious ideology.
Not teaching religious non-sense isn't grooming.....In fact it's quite the opposite.....It's not-grooming and seducing the minds of children.
Do you think that a Madrasa Schools approach to scriptural learning is mind healthy?
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@Rieka
Still, how high my IQ is has nothing to do with this debate.
#254.
You made it so.
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@Greyparrot
Good head protection if ones hair is a bit thin on top.
Like mine is.
I wear a black or dark blue cap.
No slogans.
Though you might have a point.
Perhaps the brain could over-heat, causing dumbness.
Especially if there were a substantial layer of insulating hair.
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@TWS1405_2
If you follow biased news which you selectively choose to regard as fact, then you are undoubtedly biased.
And of course your "leftist" counterpart will do exactly the same.
And the hats were sort of an analogy of what has become a hat analogy, relative to the old political colour analogy thing.
And in a Ford or Chevy hat doing yard work is how I picture you.
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@Critical-Tim
I was referring to social morality, which is experienced consciously but not always collectively.
As in we have an awareness of social expectation, but we do not necessarily think and apply morality exactly as expectation suggests we should.
Agreement between humans is a tall order.
Not sure if biological morality is a thing.
How would you test that.
Maybe it's more a case of bonding
Rapidly followed by conscious integration.
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@Critical-Tim
Firstly, I don't make any distinctions between born and created. In fact they are still currently one and the same.
Though one might make the case for a few exceptions, such as surrogacy and in-vitro.
My point was more about how many people does human society require and what roles are they likely to play relative to ongoing social and material evolution.
Bearing in mind the subject in question, and how over-population inevitably imposes hardship upon a considerable number of people.
Created morality.....A conjuring trick.....Sort of hey-presto here's morality.
I would propose that:
There is no global standard of morality, which would suggest that morality as in tribal sensibilities developed variously and separately over time.
We see all too clearly everyday, tribal moral discrimination and global disunity on a global scale.
Even within our own national sub-cultures, their is a willingness to forego what might be regarded as national moral expectations.
Nope, I wouldn't agree that morality was created.
I would say that morality evolved, similarly but variously.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
So is that.....The Crab doesn't know what the Monkey is doing.....Or the Monkey doesn't know what the Crab is doing.... And neither of them know what something else is doing?
I've jumped in at the end here, so it all seems very irrational relative to School Systems and LBGTQ.
I'm not sure how Crustacea view sexuality.
Nor Monkeys.
Did you know that a Monkey named Albert was the first to reach space. Though he might have died before he got there.
And then Albert 11, but he died on impact.
Whereas Ham the Chimp actually flew the thing.
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@TWS1405_2
Yep.
But you're extremely biased.
And you cannot prove that any of your extreme right-wing biased accusations are more than "made-up fiction".
NB. I would suggest that all fiction is made up.
And that red hat doesn't suit you.
I would suggest that you go for a blue one.
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@FLRW
@Kaitlyn
He's a Leprechaun.
Never trust a Leprechaun.
They just want your gold.
In my opinion, if the Pseudo-President is stepping down, we therefore need a new pseudo-election.
I therefore propose Kaitlyn for Pseudo-President.
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@Rieka
IQ is as IQ does.
A high IQ is no guarantee of common sense.
Just means you're good at data management.
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@IlDiavolo
Leftist, is an assumption that is based upon rightism.
Rightism is also an assumption, that is based upon leftism.
Most people are moderate, basically the same and have similar expectations.
Predilections for extremism are motivated by spontaneous overthink and endocrinal surges, at the behest of power hungry antagonists who pray upon the weaknesses of the gullible.
Extremism doesn't necessarily mean violent.
More sort of, opposing twatism, because sexual release is limited and there is not much else to do other than to chop ones dick off or wear a silly red had. Generally after a burger (beef or vegan) and several cans of cheap beer, or a glass or two of cabernet sauvignon.
In my moderate opinion.
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@Kaitlyn
You're just not being unreasonable.
I try not to be.
You're free to believe.
For sure.
But I currently dismiss the pointless concept of belief.
Which I think is a reasonable option.
And not everyone has such dependable cornerstones.
Though they seem to have an ongoing dependency on natalism.
Selfish hey?
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@Critical-Tim
It poses the question:
Is it morally right to produce unnecessary people.
Our moral obligation may not necessarily be to each other.
So, I continue to run with the idea of purpose rather than chance.
Though I could easily come at it from a nihilist angle.
Though I seem to not think nihilistically.
Which I'm guessing is a mix of inherent and acquired data.
Actually, isn't antinatalism a self-defeating philosophical argument.
Rather similar to nihilism.
It's just that we season the antinatalist debate with a sprinkling of abstract conceptualism.....Namely morality.
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@Best.Korea
Take a thousand pages or more of folktales myth and gobbledygook.
Reinterpret,
And,
Make post dated predictions.
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@Savant
Materialism is the new spirituality.
In fact, materialism has been the spirituality of the masses for quite a long time.
Spirituality comes in the palm of the hand.
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@Greyparrot
A Zedku for Mr G Parrot
Maga and Anti-Maga.
Yin and Yang.
Red hatted and blue hatted.
Americans
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@Critical-Tim
This week British Telecom a national communication provider announced that 5000 jobs were to go, citing AI technology as the reason.
These were not unintelligent people who's jobs were on the line.
Ok, so loosely related to topic.
But what I'm asking is;
For how long will human society be able to justify and support the production of a unnecessary under class and the hardships that will be imposed upon it?
Will morality prevail?
Though what would take moral precedence?
The Right to unchecked procreation.......Or population control based upon intellectual necessity, removing hardship before it occurs.....Antinatalism as it were, though not necessarily as the likes of Schopenhaeur were meaning.
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@Savant
How realistic is Best Korea, is also another discussion.
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@Kaitlyn
Strong chance that visiting aliens will have gone through the WW3 phase long ago and actually be very understanding about it.
Given the purposeful nature of species development relative to the Universal Law of Material Development..
I'm also assuming that said aliens will also have given the idea of antinatlism short shrift. Seeing as their species survived long enough to overcome the difficulties of inter-stellar travel.
Only joking Kaitlyn.
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@Best.Korea
Does that mean that the ratio of Palestinian men to Palestinian women is 1 to 4.
Or simply mean a similar ratio of Israeli women to Palestinian women.
In so much as women usually only produce a child once every nine months.
Because, for Palestinians to outbreed Israelis, there would clearly need to be a higher ration of Palestinian women to Israeli women.
In fact the number of Men would be irrelevant.
Nonetheless:
On the basis of a 1 to 1 ratio, Palestinian Men to Palestinian women.
And a marriage ratio of 1 to 4, this would mean that 75% of Palestinian men would never marry.
Seriously depleting the gene pool.
But consequently increasing the pool of potential suicide bombers.
Who needs a drone when you've got an idiot in a vest.
NB. This is merely a satirical response to Best Korea, and in no way meant to offend Palestinians.
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@Kaitlyn
For sure.
I don't live my life worrying about flipping coins.
Nor do I worry about purposefulness or purposelessness....And I certainly don't believe either.
Though I think that the term "astronomical" is very apt, when it comes to universal probabilities.
As for lower and higher purpose.
I was thinking more a deistic GOD scenario (higher)...... In comparison to an evolutionary system of material processes and development of which humanity is a part. (lower).
Not that I would disagree with the idea of innate human purpose. Which in itself is contradictory to the abstract concept of antinatalism.
Which of course is not to say that intellectually derived conclusions and subsequent actions in themselves are not purposeful.
From which we could infer that antinatalism might also be purposeful within that context.
Nice discussing with you.
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@Kaitlyn
So in on breath you admit.
No I can't.
And in the next you're,
Focussing on what is substantially more likely.
If you cannot prove something, then you have no basis to suggest or indicate that something is substantially more likely or less likely.
Come sit on the fence with me Kaitlyn.
And purpose is simply an alternative idea to purposelessness.
Whereas, I would suggest that "higher purpose" is perhaps an unnecessary over-dramatization of the idea of purpose.
Though interestingly, your reference to a higher purpose indicates to me that you do acknowledge the idea of a lower purpose.
Freudian slip perhaps.
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@Critical-Tim
Let's refer to it as social guidance then.
Though it is nonetheless the imposition of one's ideology upon another's.
Which I suppose is the basis of species evolution and it's material achievements.
Do you think that the labouring under-class is becoming redundant?
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@Best.Korea
Unfairness is a data construct.
And innate mechanisms generally incentivise the opposite of self destruction.
And afterlife is wishful thinking.
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@Best.Korea
Your personal feelings have everything to do with the topic.
It is impossible to detach your feelings from a thread that your feelings created.
The closet door is ajar.
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@ebuc
The birth death thing means that humanity is constantly in a state of flux.
So I would suggest that to save humanity, only requires the salvation of a few current fecund humans, rather than most humans.
Realistically, it would probably be better if less people were saved.
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@Best.Korea
Or.
We just die and decay.
And biblical scribblings are just 2000 year old, manmade BS.
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@Best.Korea
Maybe it's weird not to behave like that.
Who decides what is and isn't weird.
Maybe if something can and does occur then it is actually normal.
Though I have a genuine inkling that you actually found this video quite erotic.
I sort of get the impression that your extreme aversion is designed to mask your real feelings.
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@Critical-Tim
The problem with "society" deciding a "societal standard".
Is that it is rarely society that decides.
Usually just a handful of Academics and/or influential people.
Who want to tell us what we should decide.
Intellectual tyranny as it were.
Nonetheless, modern religious ideology has been thrashing out it's message for 2000 years or so and, failed to achieve totality.
Human tyranny breeds human resentment.
So I would suggest that to achieve a state of ideological totality, will require a more advanced level of connected intelligence.
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@Kaitlyn
High School is probably more about point scoring than actually discussing.
And indication is a word that you introduced, but not a word that is particularly relative to the discussion.
The appropriate word is suggestion.
Basically suggesting an indefinite purpose, brought about by the very fact of existence.
Idea and purpose generated by intelligence and communicated through language, which is what we both do.
"Not objectively bestowed upon us via the author of existence" for example. ......Nice
And magical beings......Although just as likely as unlikely, have not previously been suggestively bestowed upon you by this author.
So Kaitlyn, can you unequivocally prove that everything has no purpose at all?
I certainly cannot prove the opposite, and I'm also certain that you cannot unequivocally disprove the opposite.
And it's been 47 years since I attended High School, but I'm still sure that I don't know for sure.
And I'm also sure with equal certainty that you do not know for sure.
There are certainly no nth degrees relative to this particular topic.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Biblical scholars are those who read the bible way too much.
And don't read science books.
Because they know that the World was invented 6000 years ago
When a bloke named GOD switched the lights on.
They are also certain that GOD had a son by a Jewish virgin.
But wait for it
GOD's son turned out to be a clone of himself.
Hey, he was good at genetic engineering.
Why wouldn't he be.
He knew how to do stuff.
Though I'm surprised that he didn't give Joe and Mary a Tesla.
Save them having to traipse all the way to Bethlehem on a donkey.
Or just teleport them.
Or just clone himself in his laboratory.
GOD seemed to enjoy a lot of faff.
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@Tradesecret
Yes, I've already put forward the idea of comparative adulthood to BK.
And Mary was travelling hundreds of miles to visit her aunty.
Poor donkey.
Commentators for sure.
Commentators all.
And I also put forward to BK the idea that the bible neglects to mention everything else that happened between then and now.
Not to mention everything else that happened before then, and also then but elsewhere.
Funny how MR Omni only handed down tablets of stone relative to social and religious ideology.
Funny how Mr Omni didn't have a pencil and paper.
Poor old Moses having to lug lumps of rock around.
Could have said far more in a big book.
The Bible sure is comprehensive though.
Because we know for certain that Mary was off to visit her aunty.
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@Tradesecret
Truth becomes Strawman.
Easy way of ignoring truth.
The reality of of a pregnant teenager is either consensual sex or rape.
Holy spirits are just mythological fluff.
And you would prefer to believe mythological fluff, rather than accept the harsh reality of the human condition.
Ignorance is bliss I suppose.
And funny how there is no intelligent life out there....Just wild speculation and no evidence.
That's more than a bit like comparing the bible with any ET based sci-fi novel.
All speculative stuff made up by speculative people.
So I will concede that there is currently no more chance of meeting ET than there is of meeting a Christian GOD.
Though this doesn't negate the fact that there is more chance of ET, than there is of an actual Christian GOD.
Spatial probability rather than 2000 year old Middle Eastern Mythology.
And for every intelligent life form that might exist out there, there will more than likely be an associated GOD myth.
Which certainly won't be a MANGOD from Bethlehem.
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@Kaitlyn
@Critical-Tim
Ok, so I am an exponent of the idea that everything that occurs within a universe is real.
Then there is thinking man who possesses the power of differentiation.
Which inevitably results in contradiction.....Something that we are all inevitably guilty of.
So differentiating for a moment, I still hold that morals are "made up stuff" and not biologically inherent.
But nonetheless real within a social data context and therefore socially inherent, but also variable relative to social sub-groups.
Though, we have strayed from the philosophical proposition regarding antinatalism and theoretical correctness.
Which I would suggest are just more made up stuff, necessitated not by morality but by the necessity of philosophical differentiation.
Nonetheless, the idea of antinatalism is slowly becoming more mainstream and will perhaps evolve into some new capitalist venture, rather like transsexual ideology has done.
Overthinking kids suing overthinking parents, adding to the crock of gold that is the litigation industry.
Though I'm not sure what kids will do if they win their case.
Spend their compensation on assisted suicide in Switzerland perhaps.....Moral dilemma me thinks.
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@Kaitlyn
The jury is out on trees, they are certainly more social creatures than we gave them credit for.
Nope, theory is theory and correct is correct....In my opinion
If one is repeating theory, then it might be considered correct, but only if it was repeated correctly.
If you firebombed my house and bashed my children, then that is what you would do. The abstract concept of morality would be a tad irrelevant.
And I'm not sure where me inflicting wanton pain fits into the argument. It's you who's the wannabe firebomber and child basher.
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@hey-yo
Very true.
My dad left school at fourteen and went to work in an abbatoir.
That was 1934, and 6 years later he went to fight in a war.
And today if you so much as say boo to kids they become psychological wrecks......Well you know what I mean.
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@Stephen
I guessed as much.
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@Tradesecret
@Best.Korea
Please stick to the topic.
Persons over here under the age of 16 are considered to be stupid to think for themselves and are at it like rabbits
And younger people under and over the age of 16 think that adults are stupid.
And some people will f**k anything that moves.
A bit like GODDO and his penchant for raping virgins.
And Jesus's propensity for boys only clubs.
How old was Mary by the way?
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@Tradesecret
Does other life exist elsewhere?
Maybe, maybe not.
Is Christianity necessary?
It is for some.
Tradey.
Are you aware of just how vast the universe is?
We haven't even got past the Moon yet.
Give ET a chance.
And this proves the Christian God and disproves evolution.
Sound theory for sure.......LOL.
What was it you just stated?
"Merely speculation and wild theory".....That was it.
Just a bit like a MANGOD who fucks virgins.
And then 33 years later nails his son to a post for our sins.
Sound f**king theory Trade.
Sound.
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@ebuc
Newer research may have cast doubt on older theory.
That's the way it goes, isn't it.
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@Kaitlyn
Theoretically correct is a contradiction.
A theory is an unproven proposition and therefore is neither correct nor incorrect.
Nonetheless, morals are just made up stuff
Rather like antinatalism.
Whereas procreation is about as real as the species gets.
Do you think that trees worry about antinatalism after a good pollenating.
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@IlDiavolo
For sure.
Any living being that has mastered inter-stellar space travel is far superior to us.
I'm guessing that there's a strong chance that ET is more likely to be A.I. and long since decided that creation wasn't the work of magical creatures.
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@IlDiavolo
What is "cramble"?
Though if ET got here first we would have to cede to it's intellectual authority.
And if it said that religion was a load of baloney we would have to agree.
Hey, but Universal Laws being what they are, ET would probably have it's own GOD, which would probably involve having to do all sorts of bizarre ritual sh*t.
Like whistling songs through it's arse.
That's assuming that arses are also a Universal Law of Organic Biology
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@Deb-8-a-bull
"Going soft"
Refers to a softening of both muscular tissue and brain tissue.
Which leads to sentimentality and someone else having to organise......the toilet tissue.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Nope.
Mrs Penguin is a good girl.
Did you know that all Penguins talk with an American accent and really enjoy dancing.
I saw this documentary once.
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@sadolite
Well, I think that it's fair to say that if penguins can do it then humans could do it.
Isn't it just a case of, up until now there's been no real benefit in doing so.
Same applies to Mars really.
Though Mars is one step away from this Earthly prison.
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@Kaitlyn
Of course I don't know.
I merely suggest that because I don't know, it is therefore impossible to rule anything out.
There's no higher purpose in biological function.
You don't know that.
It's just an idea that you run with.
Meta-physics....Abstract theory....Interesting philosophical concept.
Isn't all theory abstract to a degree?
To theorise requires imagination.
That is, the assessment and modification of acquired and stored data, some factual and some not......Output is wholly suppositional, and may or may not be proven to be correct.
A biological function and process that seeks to further understanding....Purposeful even if it serves no greater necessity.
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@Kaitlyn
Nope. No faith
I accept equally, the idea that everything could be purposeless.
In so much as everything that occurs has no greater purpose.
Though I am as aware as I can be, that matter from an unknown beginning has developed and progressed rather than remaining in stasis, which in itself could be regarded as purposeful.
Ok, so this doesn't necessarily provide an argument for a greater purpose, which is to say a beginning to an end with a final goal.
A goal which I propose might simply be the re-initiation of the universal process.
Why run with these ideas.
Why indeed.
Isn't that just what we do, especially here on Debateart.
Though 95% of my time is spent either thinking about mundane day to day stuff or asleep.
As for life.
Well, I would suggest that biological function generally provides us with purpose whether we like it or not.
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@Kaitlyn
As I clearly stated, I do not believe.
I Run with Ideas.
And I can run with both ideas....Purpose or No purpose
GOD principle represents a purpose relative to material development.
GOD principle could still be applicable in a non-purposeful material development scenario.
"Because I feel like it".
Is for sure a well worn epithet.
But is a rather inaccurate epithet....In my opinion.
Coming to a conclusion, or conclusions, or variable conclusions is just an internal electro-chemical processing trait.
Nonetheless I am currently of the opinion that it is not possible to affirmatively conclude anything about everything.
So Kaitlyn appears to affirmatively conclude that everything has no purpose....So how do they come by this conclusion?
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