zedvictor4

Ok. 

So maybe that includes Dad dancing.

But I regularly release all my tensions with a 50 mile hilly Welsh cycle ride.

Dancing on a bike.

Not sure that I get overly anxious these days though.

I think I'm in that interim life phase, in between internal paternal aspirancy and rapid physical decline. 

A. No I simply mean as a national social system based upon a natural hierarchical system. I'm not sure what you think the alternative is.

In this respect Democrat and Republic are exactly the same, based upon the idea of Democratic Republicanism. 

B. Once again, people naturally fall into a hierarchical system, and if the society is capitalist, then work and reward will be commensurate with a persons capabilities.

Even if the society became socialist the same type of social structure would still emerge. Though socialist systems have a tendency to be ordered as much  by physical oppression rather than solely by financial oppression. Nonetheless, an uneven system of financial reward would still develop.

Sure did once.

C. Different ideas,  but the problems are the same problems, and outcomes might be slightly different but will still be very similar. Just money juggling.

Basically, in British society in terms of individual status, nothing is really going to change so much to make a noticeable difference. 

Too many people and not enough money to fund Utopia.

Where to go.

Create your own utopia out of what you've got, be content and don't buy into social media delusions.....That's my advice.

The way I see it.

Most U.S. politicians still adhere to the concept of Democratic Republicanism.

And ideology is still centred around personal freedom rather than totalitarianism.

Though, State dictates order and order dictates social hierarchy is some form.

Otherwise you are left with anarchy, which will undoubtedly lead to a new order.

And new order out of anarchy, has a tendency to be totalitarian, and will develop hierarchy and further discontent very quickly......(See World history)

So what you have in terms of social cohesion is probably as good as it will get.

Though this not to say that the system of selection is not more than a tad flawed. Which is one big drawback of the human need for tradition.

I would further suggest that discontent generally boils down to the distribution of wealth, which is actually subject to a wider global diktat rather than home grown personality politics.

So to conclude.

You're basically just picking a side (often just because that's what your folks did) in exactly the same best case system.

Not necessarily you personally, I hasten to add.

I never vote (U.K.)......Because although the system is perhaps not utopian for all, I still think that it is as good as it can be.

Corporations or Totalitarianism.....I know which I prefer.

And I think that someone once said something like.....You can't please all of the people all of the time.

Which is very true.

To which I will add......Some people will always go out of their way to be displeased with other peoples efforts.

For sure.

Yep.

That's always the problem.

It was just the process I was considering.

Internal data, output and recorded.....Recorded data input, assessed and confirmed.

Which as best as it can, suggests that sensory input matches external object.

An unverifiable process though.

Until such times as we download and review thoughts.

Putting faith in technology rather than in human experiences.

Seems to be where we are heading.

Just rambling.

Hmmmmm.

Not sure this is the opposite to people liking to disagree.

Presumably we achieve a certain level of satisfaction when we contend abstract concepts.

Some people still enjoy arguing the toss over the physical structure and appearance of our planet, when they obviously know that they are incorrect. And others will enjoy arguing the opposite even though they know that they are correct.

Is there a limit to human memory?

Or is the ability to externally record just as essential.

In fact, are external records a direct link to, or accurate proof of, an external reality.

Just a thought that occurred to me.

Affordable housing.....Who pays....The drug Barons or the tax payer.

Healthcare....Healthcare costs either grow at the rate of demand or health care is reduced.....Do you honestly think that non-profit insurance companies is a feasible option?...Insurance is a high risk business which will ultimately have to be underwritten. Probably by the tax payer in this situation.

Affordable education....When is a debt to be repaid not a loan.....And who funds long term debt, the financial sector or the tax payer.

Socialism is only popular with those who expect something for nothing or very little effort, and not popular with aspirants who are prepared to work for a living.

Perhaps society is at a stage where expectancy and demand outstrips affordability.

Tough call.

Kumbaya.

Now there's a memory.

Never had a clue what it meant though.

Just looked it up.

Come by here.

Oh Lord come by here.

So there you have it.

People like to disagree.

For sure.

Undoubtedly.

I was being cynical.

You knew that?

Christ-God and Allah are actually so small that they could stand side by side on a pinhead.

How big is Slifer?

I often wonder how small things work.

But I expect that small things wonder how big things work.

Are we big or small?

Maybe aliens are so small, that we can't see them

Or maybe we are so small, that aliens can't see us.

All hail Slifer the Sky Dragon.

Let's just hope that he doesn't go fuck a virgin and then nail his son to a post just so that I can remain a sinner.

All hail Slifer the sensible GOD.

Maybe our Universe is a tiny bubble in a vast ocean somewhere

Have you ever considered that BK?

Goodnight

And may Slifer bless you with his soothing breath.

Therein lies another discussion concerning the nature of the self, expectation, the reality of the self and future uncertainty.

And I suppose, future inevitability.

I'm guessing you're younger than me.....Because for me, ongoing contentment is my necessity, rather than a better future.

Because at 63 the future can be quite a bleak prospect.

And you have all the good ideas?

Please tell.

Maybe so.

But the voting public will still have a choice to make.

And they will dutifully do so, thereby installing the next group elite into office.

An elite funded by an elite.

And I would suggest that bad behaviour is not limited to the elite.

It's just that elite badness is more media juicy.

Hierarchy and increasing levels of corruption is how social systems work.

So let's say that you good ole American folk stage a successful coup d'etat.

So what then?

A socialist utopia.

No chance.

Someone's always going to be doing the leading and the rest are always going to be following.

For sure.

I'm not the least offended by Tarik's actions.

Offence....Now there's another can of worms.

The more one thinks about existence and perception, the more intense ones frustration becomes at the self limiting nature of internality.

Simultaneous considering the seemingly impossible nature of energy, matter and existence.

Reality is perhaps best defined by the matrix of thought and communication with others.

I wonder if a future independent A.I. will share the same matrix or create it's own, and a separate reality.

Perhaps I digress to much.

Perhaps inter-galactic communications are still universally incapable.

Perhaps we are a tad more advanced than other systems.

Bearing in mind that it would take 2.5 million years for a radio signal to reach Andromeda our nearest galaxy.

Therefore 2.5 million years for a reply.

Don't wait up.

It will eventually all boil down to how stupidly or sensibly the voting public choose to behave.

And Jonathon Turley as per U.S. social  expectation, is politically biased.

@Tarik

Morality is labelled sensibility and may vary between human sub-groups.

And all objectivity is essentially subjectively biased.

Hi Tim.

Tarik blocks me because?

Well , I can only assume that they find me a too logical a challenge to their conditioned sensibilities.

Guns are scary Doc.

Well let's revise that.

Gunmen with loaded guns are scary.

Let's revise that.

Gunpersons with loaded guns are scary.

Gender equality and all that.

And I made the presumption that transgunpersons were perhaps likely to be slightly more prone to imbalanced mentality.

Though maybe I'm biased Doc.

Top of the morning to ya.

Yep.

I've attempted to put words to paper, as it were.

Bur quickly come to the conclusion that 90 something per cent of modern philosophical literature is essentially restructured plagiarism.

Absolutely no offence intended by the way, I enjoy reading your postings.

In short, it's extremely difficult to be novel.

I would suggest that to truly understand the mind, one needs to truly understand the internal development and workings of the human computer.

What do you think?

Well, if it can happen once it can happen twice.

And if it can happen twice, it can happen a quintillion times.

In so much as evolutionary processes are likely to be universally applicable.

Though if evolutionary processes are universally applicable,  it's perhaps likely that the most advanced intelligences are at similar stages of development.

Even if it occurs at only one per galaxy, that's still an estimated 2 trillion possibilities.

Or none of the above.

Yep. I can run with those ideas in principle.

I think that scientific minds have alluded to such concepts for quite a while now.

In very simple terms, I have always proposed a GOD principle relative to the evolutionary structuring of energy and matter.

And in fairness to old theologians , I think that their GOD principles were reasonably analogic.

Whereas modern deists should know better, or be taught better. 

I'm a fan of no one.

But Earnest was a good actor.

And, are you really 77?

Your avatars are clearly designed to deceive.

Do you dance like me or Ebuc?

HaHa.

A contradiction in terms these days.

For sure.

I was going to buy a choc-ice

And then realised I was woke.

So which is the wokest/most woke?

A.  Whitish ice cream covered in white chocolate

B.  Chocolate ice cream covered in dark chocolate

C.  Chocolate ice cream covered in whitish chocolate

D.  Whitish ice cream covered in dark chocolate.

Current trends would suggest either B or D.

Yep.....Whitish dominated by dark, is the most woke.

 

Sorted.

So I can now buy a choc-ice with confidence.

Just checking.

If I buy one with nuts, will I be insulting any of the trans/pronoun/neutral brigade?

Eat,

Will shit.

Process,

Resulting in,

Organic,

Bi-product.

Enrich the Earth,

Grow food,

Eat, 

And shit,

And so on.

Sanctuary,

In progress.

Yum Yum,

Said the microbe.

Well, not so strange.

Human nature is such, that we should expect selfishness in respect of survival mechanisms.

Which would include discrimination based upon perceivable differences.

And any consequences thereof.

And Trump  talks gibberish, which his orangeness and hairdo adequately make up for.

Or so the red hat crew think.

Just keep taking the cleaning fluid.

Have guns.

Will shoot at some point.

Death likely.

Have guns

Will never shoot

Death unlikely

Nah.

Going well, thanks.....Hope you are too.

Yep, I can see that designed organic structures is an appealing proposition.

The complexity of advanced organic systems is quite amazing.

Though each designer would  require a designer, would  require a designer...... Ad infinitum.

So that still leaves us with material evolution over aeons, from basic to complex, as the most reasonable explanation.

Which leads us nicely to the design development and therefore the evolution of inorganic intelligent structures and systems.

Ok....So that certainly could imply the existence of a previous designer....But that nonetheless at some point requires a seemingly magical genesis.

I think it more likely that intelligent organic structures would develop from the primary evolvers, whereas inorganic intelligence actually requires a designer and manufacturer.

So maybe humanity will be the designer/evolver of an inorganic or hybrid super-intelligence, which will  bear the responsibility of furthering the necessity of material processes.

Still leaves us with the old something from nothing conundrum though.

Or depending on how one views it.......The something and nothing conundrum.

Both something and nothing are seemingly impossible.

Or maybe everything is a purposeless fluke.

Nothing, Something, Everything.......Any ideas IlDiavolo?

Ok.

So a similar age to me then.

I always assumed you were younger.

I like listening to music, but I don't bother about it as much as I used to.

Prog rock and classical, but specific stuff.

But any tune that catches my ear.

Though, these days I prefer to relax on a comfy sofa with headphones, YouTube and a cup of tea.

I dance like a Dad at a wedding..........Absolutely no movement to rhythm coordination.

Hey.

I think that human society is at some sort of crisis point.

And it's no good blaming immigrants.

And remember, that Caucasians were once illegal immigrants in the New World.

Well, it was once someone else's Old World.

In fact I think that the World is pretty much all the same age.

And I think it's a fact that we are all sort of related.

Be that the descendants of Adam and Eve or the descendants of a couple of ape like hominids from the African plains.

And then there was Noah and the big boat and all that shit.

Write a book Tim.

Or have you already done that?

I'm not sure that we can fully understand the morality of an abstract idea, if there is no direct association with a real experience. 

We would be unemotionally detached from the hypothetical scenario and therefore free to make hypothetical judgements.

Judgements that would not  necessarily need to be representative of an innate sense of morality.

Computers process data.....Both internally and externally generated data.

The human computer is a multi-functional management system, developed over some 300,000 years or so.

Whereas advanced electronic computers have been around for less that 100 years.........Let's give them a chance to catch up.

Maybe were looking at some sort of hybrid.

Because I think that downloading consciousness is not too far away......Which is a sort of scary concept.

Hey.

As long as it works for you in the shack.

Though, I'm just interested to know how old you and Mrs Ebuc are.

Mrs Zed and myself are both 63, and get along just fine in our untidy way.

One mans good is another mans evil and vice versa.

Have stuff,

Have flat surface,

Will clutter,

With stiff.

Unless,

OCD.

Which also goes to prove,

That most stuff

Is unnecessary.

Like,

Fridge magnets.

OCD good then?

Fair enough.

Though I would suggest that morality is relative to predicament.

And the difficulty with hypothetical predicaments is that they have  no real comparison.

But I still maintain that, improbability and feasibility  will affect how we view your two hypotheticals.

I'm not sure that any real sense of morality, will enter into the experiment.

Woke is an alternative wannabe tyranny.

Easily ignored.

Currently. 

Though some people just can't ignore things.

Did you read the rest of my post?

Hypothetical or not......We will inevitably  view your two scenarios differently.

Because we are conditioned to do so.

Semantics.

A response to a stimulus, awareness, consciousness..

One can just pick where one wishes to insert rudimentary brain or brain into the evolutionary sequence.

Nonetheless, consciousness is simply a word that defines a highly developed mental capability, relative to a highly developed organic computer.

Switch off the computer though

And

Well, despite the efforts of a few theatrical mediums, no one as yet has managed to make contact.

Trouble is, that scenario 1 is wholly hypothetical and improbable.

Whereas scenario 2, though hypothetical is feasible.

Therefore improbability and feasibility will dictate our moral appreciation of the two scenarios, in respect of social expectations and social justice.

True.

Their are usually two sides to an argument.

So depending upon the necessity or unnecessity of the human mission.

Then for sure, competition is either necessary or unnecessary.

I suppose that I do tend to run with the necessary necessity point of view.

Nonetheless, competition that requires necessary killing....Does seem a tad unnecessary at times.

But that's just me being a softie.

As I stated.

Word play and mind games Trade.

One can neither prove nor disprove something that cannot be proved nor disproved.

So logically, if a concept cannot be proved to be correct then disproof is unnecessary.

Similarly, logic  infers that if a concept can be proved to be correct then disproof is also unnecessary.

Therefore proof is always the necessary requirement.

Nonetheless, a concept is proof of itself.

Therefore contrary concepts are equally valid.

And so conceptually, GOD is both correct and incorrect.

Science is a tad irrelevant.

In so much as science can only determine the processes of though, but cannot validate an abstract idea.

Proving that an actual GOD exists, is not currently possible.....This is logical.

It's all word play.

Or mind games Trade, as you rightly suggest.

The best that we can really  suggest though, is that we assume everything has a cause.

And GOD has become a widely used label for a potential cause.

Talking to yourself is the first sign of madness.

Or so they say.

For sure.

Religion is a sort of scientific hypothesis.

We're still awaiting the results though.

No GOD proved to exist as yet.

But keep saying your prayers.

You never know.