Any topic, I pick the side. Written rap battle debate. Not troll/unmoderated.
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
After 1 vote and with 1 point ahead, the winner is...
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 4
- Time for argument
- Three days
- Max argument characters
- 22,000
- Voting period
- One month
- Point system
- Winner selection
- Voting system
- Open
Pick the topic, I pick the side, then we spit bars so hot Antarctica would evaporate.
I do not plan on mentioning every aspect of this battle. I will only mention the relevant parts that led me to make the decision. If the participants want to know how I evaluated X aspect of the debate they can ask me in the comments.
Rapping was roughly equal and both sides did an excellent job. I will admit I did not focus on the beats much but mostly just looked at the lyrics. Doesn't matter anyways because it's nearly impossible to determine how the person who rapped it would have wanted it to flow unless I heard them rap it themselves; there's a million ways you could rap these verses. Athias' bars were something I imagine you would hear on an actual antigovernmental album. Rhyme schemes and the mood (which was very dark; I felt I had experienced the full magnitude of government abuses after I read it) were great. If I heard some of his verses on an actual song by a top-tier rapper I would not have been surprised. RM, by contrast, was more unconventional. The thing I noticed throughout was his cleverness and his ability to incorporate his points into his complex rhyme schemes seamlessly (and if you've ever rapped about anything besides how awesome you are, you know that that is very, very difficult). Athias' stuff is more my style, but RM was consistently creative. It was a toss-up, but the aforementioned ability to rap and debate simultaneously (whereas Athias was rapping more than he was arguing) was what gave RM the win for a different reason.
RM wins the burdens debate because when Athias brings up that the debate is about government and not anarchy, RM gives the reason why this is not necessarily true: Namely, that the resolution does not specify whether we're talking about government weighed based on whether it has done more good or bad or government weighed based on something else i.e. whether it ought to continue to exist. So I weigh RM's comparisons of government to anarchy because Athias would have the burden to prove a topicality argument and he did not do so. His R3 contained a repetition of what he had already said ("the matter discussed at the present"). This was already argued against by RM.
RM ends up winning for this reason. He establishes that without government the same unethical actors are going to exist, just without rules to hold them back. This is a point that is hammered home again and again throughout the course of the debate. I buy that violence and oppression aren't problems with the government itself, just society (which is another thing that contributes to his victory in the burdens debate) because Athias is not fighting back enough on this point. He argued against the "same unethical actors operating without rules to hold them back" point, if you will, once in the final round by saying that laws don't prevent violence and that there were no statistical assessments of how good anarchy would actually be. However, the former argument is not fleshed out enough, and the latter argument is bypassed by the theoretical nature of RM's argument (and the fact that data on anarchism (much less AnCapistan) is very limited). Athias could've argued better here by explaining how AnCapistan is not necessarily lawless (what with Rights Enforcement Agencies and all; he talks about how anarchy constitutes a call for privatized rules but this isn't formulated as a rebuttal, it was not extended into R3, and it definitely was not enough) or by arguing that any organization that violates rights is unethical regardless of whether people are harmed in the alternative by applying deontological ethics or something similar to that. I don't see either of those things, and that makes sense given his commitment to the back-and-forth concerning burdens and thus his continued condemnations of various government actions. However, that's what does him in in the end, and I'm left with the impression that violence is caused by the nature of interaction itself, and a society without state-imposed rules would only result in more of it.
Rap is among my favorite genres in music--though, I dislike the majority of modern mainstream rap--and as a kid, my best friends and I used to write our own lyrics to our favorite beats. (I've also written my fair share of poems.) It suffices to say that many of those friends continued along this path as a career, and they even have songs on iTunes, soundcloud, and Spotify. And while I pursued a less glamorous career, my propensity towards lyricism has remained.
RationalMadMan would have to inform you on his origin story.
How do people come up with rhymes like this?
Actually idk if I will, I think this was a low vote count and most didn't understand how to vote on it. I think you like jagged flow raps with rigid rhyme scheme whereas I like a complex 'liquid' flow.
Obviously my rhymes couldn't melt a snow cone. Enjoy your victory. Let's do this again. It was fun.
No problem. You both did an excellent job, to reiterate. I can't think of a better rap battle as of recent.
Thanks for the vote
both, latter takes priority
Do I vote based on who did the superior rapping in the battle or who established the better case for the state being good/bad? I believe it's the former, but I am just checking.
I will try to vote during my free time tomorrow. Just remind me if I don't.
This is great!
Cheers
I'm bumping up this debate before it falls deep within the annals of subjects forgotten, because I spit "hawt fyer!"
Likewise.
Good luck
My mistake. I see the "not" also applied to the un-moderated part.
I proposed the exact opposite.
You're going to have to play it by ear. I suppose one could still follow the guidelines just to avoid the meddling of the moderators (note: RationalMadMan did propose that this Rap Battle be un-moderated.) Use your discretion.
I'm not saying either one of you have better flow than the other, or your arguments either. They are both very entertaining reads. I'm just wondering how much consideration is put on style, and how much is put on the argument when it comes time to vote?
Let me guess: you agree with RationalMadMan's arguments, but you think that I have the better flow? I don't really know the procedure when it concerns voting on rap battles. I assume it would be somewhat different from a regular debate in that "Rap Battles" I presume focus more on one's rap skills (otherwise what's the point?) But at the end of the day, voters vote however they like. So, vote however you like, sir.
What happens if you agree with someone's arguments, but you think the other one has better flow?
""Oh yeah because no government is yet doing a perfect job thus the concept of government itself is bad!"
Wait till you hear that Anarchism can't even reach the glory of government-based society. In fact, anarchism will either die out or there will be a leader, which turns into a government."
Are you trying to engage me in a discussion over a lyric, or is the part you quoted merely your impression of my position?
"Oh yeah because no government is yet doing a perfect job thus the concept of government itself is bad!"
Wait till you hear that Anarchism can't even reach the glory of government-based society. In fact, anarchism will either die out or there will be a leader, which turns into a government.
The difference between the tribe and NWA is the former is a journalistic approach to the trials and tribulations, as well as the ideals of inner city gang culture, and they obviously showcased the decadence involved with much of those themes. The tribe were more abstract and could cover any topic with ease, but they rejected the decadence found in NWA stuff. The tribe were definitely more uplifting, but not in a cheesy manner that tries to sell black culture to white America by making them seem overtly squeaky clean (like Stevie Wonder, or Boys 2 Men).
I'd say, NWA was more influential for me because of the more diverse range of artists they sampled which introduced me to an alternative genre of music that I was raised on (I was pounded into the ground with led-zep and the eagles, and they tend to wear thin quickly). Because of NWA (and more so Cube), I have a profound love of Prince, Parliament Funkadelic, The Isley Brothers, and all of the great R&B and funk that goes along with those groups. I can't say the tribe had that same impact on me.
No point in me dissing WTC so I agree. However, offer me Tribe called Quest and NWA or WTC for a concert or listening session and I'd take the former two, without hesitation. Tribe vs NWA is difficult, depends the vobe you're going for, both equally skilled and successful imo.
I would never argue that any hip hop production was better than anything that Ice Cube was involved in, especially since I am also an artist and he was one of my three favorite inspirations. But as far as the wu, their production was purposely made to counter the very airbrushed and smooth sound from the west coast at the time. They were instrumental in ushering in the Lo-Fi sound that dominates modern indie dance/rock/hip-hop. I agree that most of their rap was about how good they can rap, so their lyrics leave much to be desired, but the cult like mystique they garnered helps replace much of what is lost from their lack luster lyrics. They also had some pretty great flow ta boot.
For me NWA are/were better than WTC
They're overrated imo. Not bad, just good as opposed to great. Their lyrics rarely make me go wow and their production is mediocre and flow is smooth at times, but very jagged and broken at others.
Would have loved it if you were both arguing who the best member of the wu-tang clan was.
"Only fool'd altogether"
Only a fool'd altogether remove*
Yeah go full Vinnie Paz anarchist if you want.
https://youtu.be/w_Q-DUj9OHw
I just avoided it in case you did.
May I use curse words, and obscenities? Or will that be held against me?
Swahili. Using this language you will teach less people about quantum mechanics and in turn it is less useful.
If there are any more rules and stipulations to be hashed out, perhaps it'd be more "economical" to discuss them here as opposed to a debate round. Otherwise, I'm ready when you are.
which in no way precludes raps in swahili
this is an English speaking website
WIll you rap in Swahili?
Swahili
TOPIC: which language is less useful for teaching quantum mechanics- Mandarin or Swahili?