The Gender Pay Gap doesn't exist.
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
After 4 votes and with 2 points ahead, the winner is...
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- 4
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This is not my real position, but I will be assuming the role of Pro in this debate. I will be arguing that gender pay gap is not real.
Debate is on-balance.
- The occupation one holds,
- Their rank in their organization,
- How long they've worked there,
- The education level they had to attain to do the job,
- How many hours they work in the average week.
- Explanations do not deny existence
- Small amounts add up
- Same job for less money
“female doctors earn significantly less than men, often tens of thousands of dollars less annually, despite similar demographic and work-related profiles. This earnings gap is persistent across time, medical specialty, and country of practice” [4].
- https://www.forbes.com/sites/karlynborysenko/2020/03/31/great-news-ladies-the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-myth
- https://www.joblist.com/trends/visualizing-salary-gaps#SIDval-21
- https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/05/25/gender-pay-gap-facts/
- https://journals.lww.com/hcmrjournal/Abstract/2021/07000/The_gender_pay_gap_in_medicine__A_systematic.11.aspx
- https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong
- https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Scientific_method#How_to_do_science
- 1. Nuclear Medicine Technologist
Nuclear medicine technologists give patients small doses of radioactive drugs and perform tests to help diagnose patients' ailments.- 2. Event Planner and Coordinator
Event planners and coordinators organize and oversee tasks for various events, such as meeting with clients, booking venues, and negotiating with vendors.- 3. Licensed Social Worker
Licensed social workers help patients manage mental health conditions and problems in their lives with therapy, counseling, and treatment plans and provide crisis intervention if needed.- 4. Psychiatric Aide
Psychiatric aides provide care for patients with mental health conditions, including helping with daily living activities and observing their behaviors and concerns.
2. Small Amounts Add Up:At my last job my manager (a woman) was paid $2 less than me per hour of work. That comes to $4,160 per year (not counting overtime). That tiny difference made me able to get approved by the bank to buy a house.
Pro concedes the debate with the following sentences:
"There will be some professions where statistically, men make more than women."
"As it currently stands, there are likewise professions where women make more than men."
"The Gender Pay Gap doesn't exist, but the Reverse Gender Pay Gap does."
"In different professions, the statistical evidence may very well show that women come to earn more than men or the reverse."
Honestly, after all this, Con's argument is dispensable. Pro acknowledges the existence of a gender pay gap. He challenges whether it exists because of gender discrimination, but the title of the debate is "The Gender Pay Gap doesn't exist." Cause is irrelevant. Amount is irrelevant. Direction (favoring men or women) is irrelevant. Its existence is all that is relevant. Con demonstrates that one exists and does so at 7%. Pro's only reason why this does not hold is because it's the number of people in a given career from each gender, which again, is about what the cause is, not whether it exists. Pro concedes the debate, Con wins.
I’m unclear what the definition of “gender pay gap,” for the purposes of this debate, is. If the definition is simply “a difference in average earnings between men and women,” the topic is a truism, because you don’t even have to consider the additional factors Pro names in R1. However, the debaters seem to agree that, in broad terms, what matters is whether men and women in similar professions have a gap in pay per hours worked.
Pro’s claim that the pay gap is not because of gender discrimination is non-topical, because, as Con points out, this debate isn’t about whether gender discrimination caused a pay gap, only about whether it exists. Pro has two remaining claims. First, they argue that most discussions of the pay gap don’t account for factors like career choice and hours worked. Con observes that Pro’s source concedes that, even after making the adjustments Pro wants, you end up with a pay gap of $0.07 per hour -- and this isn’t a negligible amount, as these amounts add up. Second, they argue that there are some professions where women get more hourly pay, and others where men get more hourly pay. But Pro’s own definition, in R1, notes that what matters is the average difference. Con uses examples to show that the magnitude of difference is larger in the latter cases. Besides, the fact that a $0.07 gap exists suggests that there are either more professions where men earn more than women, or the magnitude of the differences is bigger. Besides, I’m broadly compelled that a “reverse pay gap” continues to be a pay gap, as Con points out, and hence doesn’t affirm the resolution.
Hence, I vote Con.
Tied votes need no justification apparently
A safety vote or two would be appreciated.
What Barney said is accurate. If it’s so obvious that one side in this debate was arguing against what you would consider to be a truism, then there should be arguments in the debate that demonstrate that. If it’s only a truism because you say it’s a truism, that’s not a sufficient basis casting a vote in and of itself.
Whiteflame: -> "It is not enough to simply say that the debate is won before any argument is had"
You treated this debate as a forgone conclusion. Which lowers your BoP, but something said in the debate should still be named (quoted or paraphrased). It could literally be: "Pro tried to prove that statistic does not exist because it can be explained, con countered that leaves it still existing." While extremely minimalistic, this shows a sample of the argument tactics from both sides.
But my bias is in FAVOR of pro.
NONETHELESS, I have to aknowledge that con has won that because of the way pro phrased his resolution. The pay gap, as a statistic, DOES exist, even though it accounts for nothing and is no example of patriarchy.
Con pointed this one out with his first argument, well done!
Omg @ your new vote.
😂😂😂😂😂
If that’s the mindset you’re bringing to voting on this debate, then you’re necessarily biasing your view based on information you have and not considering the arguments given by each side. We all have biases, but saying that Pro lost this debate before a word was said is not sufficient for casting a vote on this site, no matter how lopsided you think the resolution is. You will either have to consider the arguments presented by each side, or you can choose not to award points and just post your thoughts here in the comments. Up to you.
Pro could HAVE np arguments, because he was doomed to lose from the very resolution. Resolution proves con right, i can't physically provide any point with either of them
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>Reported Vote: Decisively_Conservatist // Mod action: Removed
>Voting Policy: info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy
>Points Awarded: 1 point to Con
>Reason for Decision:
As much as I agree with Pro, and it pains me to vote Con, I have to vote him because;
This topic cannot be proven by pro, since the statistic, even if explainable and not an example of patriarchy, still exists, even if it shows practically NOTHING.
>Reason for Mod Action:
The voter has to explain the decision based on arguments made by both sides in the debate. If there is a particular statistic that the voter believes demonstrates the point made by one side so thoroughly that it warrants awarding them the victory on this debate, the voter has to designate what that statistic is and why any responses from Pro were insufficient to address it. It is not enough to simply say that the debate is won before any argument is had.
**************************************************
A more in complex look at these issues and their causes may be found at:
https://www.debateart.com/debates/4165-the-gender-wage-gap-is-not-an-example-of-patriarchy
Dang, that’s high praise. Thank you!
Must warn you though that this debate will be one of my worst.
Man I gotta check in more often... barney is actually debating a good debater.
If you did any writeups, I'll gladly respond to them instead of just extending.
Also do you mind if I edit the tags on this debate? Categories have been replaced with tags, for which it looks like there can be several.
Your next round is due this morning.
I’m up against the highest level of Soresu.
I'll post my next round tomorrow morning.
I apologize if that came off rude, just simply something I noticed. I didn't realize it was "unrated".
Always good practice to put yourself out there once in awhile.
This is just a practice debate.
I'm intentionally putting myself in unfamiliar territory by arguing a subject I know nothing about.
Considering you never mentioned this is specifically focused on the United States (or specific area) has also put you at a somewhat disadvantage. They could refer to any country, state, job and use that as their entire argument. Though you possibly did this on purpose?