Instigator / Pro

1500

rating

debates

100.0%

won

Topic

#4430

While transpeople deserve equal rights and dignity, transwomen are not women.

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

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After 1 vote and with 4 points ahead, the winner is...

timjohnston

Tags

Parameters

Publication date: 04.24.2023 03:51PM
Last updated date: 05.07.2023 05:25PM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 2
Time for argument: Two days
Max argument characters: 10,000
Voting period: One week
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

JoeyCaruso

1500

rating

debates

0.0%

won

Description

I'm open to discussing all the issues around trans rights and contrasting and comparing them to rights expressed by other groups.

Round 1

timjohnston

04.26.2023 11:13AM

Pro

I just came here to learn and for a conversation, but I'll give this format a shot. I propose that even as society needs to protect the rights and dignity of all people to be who they are, it must also be recognized that biology creates boundaries that cannot be overcome even by genuine internal feels about who someone feels or knows herself to be. Despite this, a transwoman can certainly live her life as a woman with female pronouns and dress and deserves to find love or relationship and live free from bigotry. Still, it would not be bigoted for a cisman to reject her because she is not a ciswoman in the same way it would not be bigoted for a gay cisman to feel unattracted to a ciswoman. It should not be offensive to state that gender, by definition, is binary.

JoeyCaruso

04.28.2023 11:13AM

Con

Forfeited

Round 2

timjohnston

04.28.2023 05:25PM

Pro

Yeaaahh... so I'm not going to continue arguing with myself when no one's there.

JoeyCaruso

04.30.2023 05:25PM

Con

Forfeited

Best.Korea

04.24.2023 05:07PM

More rainbow More rainbow More rainbow

timjohnston

04.24.2023 04:33PM

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@Bella3sp

Sorry, I'm new here so maybe I haven't wrapped my head around the framework. We can drop the "dignity" part and leave it to "rights" if you like. I'm just looking for a civil discussion and I hope to better understand those who feel transwomen and women are the same as has been expressed often in certain media.

Bella3sp

04.24.2023 04:29PM

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@timjohnston

Alright. The dignity definition isn't quite what I was looking for, but, based on your definitions I might need to nitpick.

timjohnston

04.24.2023 04:25PM

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@Bella3sp

Okay, for the sake of argument, a woman is someone who is born biologically as a woman and by "dignity" I mean the dignity that all people deserve regardless of their sexuality. Is that enough?

Bella3sp

04.24.2023 04:19PM

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@timjohnston

Actually, you can make something out of this. I could argue this without needing to go into high detail especially since its only ten thousand characters.
I'll do this if you verify one thing, what is the definition of "dignity" and "woman"?

timjohnston

04.24.2023 04:09PM

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@Barney

That's part of ,my confusion with this topic. At the least women are those who are born biologically as women, but I'm not sure if that's a controversial statement for some.

Savant

04.24.2023 04:07PM

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@Barney

Kind of defeats the point when the definition itself is the debate. Probably best to phrase it as "which definition is better?" or something along those lines.

Barney

04.24.2023 03:57PM

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@timjohnston

I advise adding a definition for women into this debate.