Resolved: On balance, Anakin Skywalker deserved his redemption.
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
After 3 votes and with 13 points ahead, the winner is...
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- 3
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- Open
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There is a controversial disagreement in the Star Wars Universe.
Many fans argue that Darth Vader, or Anakin Skywalker is beyond redemption.
Let's explore this in depth and determine the answer for real.
Pro argues that he deserved his redemption, Con argues he didn't.
No new arguments in the Final Round. Only rebuttals/retorts.
Con dropped the framework that Anakin is distinct from Vader, then made a lot of points against Vader... This would be like a prosecution trying to focus on how vile a crime was, and ignoring all the evidence that someone else committed it (a little like The Central Park Five).
Con also tried to argue there is more evil in him than good, and yet the definition we have for redemption is about rejecting the evil. With him dying before he could turn back to evil, redemption was attained; and pretty much if attained than it was deserved (as much as it cannot be earned).
After the first round, I was voting for Con. I had no idea how Pro was going to get out of that first round. Con made some great points with respect to not knowing if there was any evil in Anakin's heart after the spiritual death of Vader. The points with respect to how Anakin killed the children, were something I wondered how it could be reconciled.
However Pro nailed it with respect to Anakin becoming a force ghost. I buy that argument. I buy that the evil caused in the name of Anakin was an unconscious development of Vader. I accept that Vader spiritually/consciously died, and Anakin repented in a manner for which he was absent of evil and therefore redeemed.
Con's argument was very repetitive. Sources go to Pro, as they were fantastic and I needed them to reach a decision.
Two great debaters, and a fun read. Thank you to both.
Con provides a lot of syllogisms, which can be a good mode of analysis, but they don't provide much evidence to substantiate the premises. It's made clear that Vader has done a lot of bad things, and even if I don't buy that Vader and Anakin are two separate people (or "identities," I suppose), Con doesn't challenge that framework. Even if Anakin has done more bad than good, Pro argues that redemption is a choice to reject evil, not just a tally of good and bad actions. The fact that Anakin became a force ghost establishes that he rejected evil—even if I buy what Con is saying about Anakin having some bad qualities left, I think it's established that he was more good than bad in his last moment.
Con doesn't give sources, so that point goes to Pro as well.
It was reported awhile ago, so not part of any current heat.
If memory serves, it was reported by some rando I offended elsewhere. Neither a Korean, nor a madman.
Oh no.
Why do I get the feeling that this report was not made by Best.Korea?
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>Reported Vote: Barney // Mod action: Not Removed
>Voting Policy: info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy
>Points Awarded: 3 points to Pro (Arguments)
>Reason for Decision:
See Voting Tab
>Reason for Mod Action:
The voter explains their decisions utilizing arguments made by each side and focusing on how the points made by Con in response to Pro's setup of the debate (both of his framework and his definitions) are sufficient to award these points. That is sufficient under the voting standards.
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Damn, that was well done! I had not noticed more than one kiss between the twins…
BTW, you ever look up the crazy censorship of Sailor Moon?
Only if they're a Skywalker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFog6enc6HE
Incest in movies is definitely a 70's-80's thing... Like Star Wars and Back To The Future. 😂😂😂
Anyone else notice something strange with the Jedis when it comes to family?
This scene isn't as bad as I remembered it, but come on, you're in bed with Natalie Portman, and get all sweaty thinking about your mother?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v-vMCUvDTE
I completely forgot that Anakin became a force ghost. I only remembered it when you mentioned it in the debate. It did mess up my victory plan for the debate. Still, even if I did remember the force ghost argument before accepting, I still would have accepted the debate since it is a fun topic. People love and justify Anakin because he is fun, cute and hot.
I forgot to mention in the debate Anakin's opinion on dictatorship: "Well, if it works...😁".
What did you think of the resolution?
The Force is supposedly a metaphor for God, I think. But rather than a creator, it is the entirety of the source of creation itself.
Whether it is a separate deity with sentience is slightly unclear, but the lore implies that its intentions for the Future will become a reality.
I haven't read more than a tiny fraction of the lore, but since when is The Force intelligent?
And damn, I hate the idea of midichlorians so much. It goes into racial supremacy theories.
Anakin was created by The Force as a way to stop Sidious.
Darth Sidious and Plagueis were experimenting with midichlorians and The Force deliberately created Anakin Skywalker from Sidious's experimentation to prove the point that it could not be manipulated.
I will agree with con that he likely would have reverted had he lived.
There was some old comic where he lived and became a rebel hero, with his costume painted white... Lame!
However, he basically got Luke to assist in killing himself, before that could happen. And as pro pointed out, he was at the moment of his death good enough to become a Force Ghost.
By the way, Anakin was not created by the force, because Sidious is a mother fucker.
Thx Barney!
Thank you!
Thx homie!
Could you vote on this pls?
Thanks!
Bump