@ Stephen
how much time regarding Jesus' return in using biblical axioms like "who is to come quickly, and soon, the time is near" do we just say, He's just not coming, period! Thus far, it's been 2000 years plus, where Jesus' return was supposed to be within the time period of Jesus upon earth! (Mark 30: 25-35).
All correct? What a laugh. The time reference passages in the Bible refer to an audience of address. Who is that primary audience? If you can't identify it from the text, what you do is collapse the context and make it a pretext to suit a foreign context, one you make up.
Revelation 1:1-4; 7-8
The Revelation of Jesus Christ
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and [a]communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, 2 who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, everything that he saw. 3 Blessed is the one who reads, and those who hear the words of the prophecy and [b]keep the things which are written in it; for the time is near.
Message to the Seven Churches
4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from Him who is, and who was, and who [c]is to come, and from the [d]seven spirits who are before His throne,
7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. [f]So it is to be. Amen.
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who [g]is to come, the Almighty.”
1) The Revelation is a revelation of Jesus Christ.
2) The communication is with John, a bond-servant.
3) The message he writes is to seven churches in Asia.
4) In verse 7, who does every eye apply to? It applies to those who pierced Him. Who are those who pierced Him? They are
His own people, the
house of Israel. Scripture tells us as much.
Zechariah 12:10 (NASB)
10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem [a]the Spirit of grace and of pleading, so that they will look at Me whom they pierced; and they will mourn for Him, like one mourning for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.
So John is speaking of the house of Israel, specifically the house of Judah, who pierced Him.
John 19:31-32
31 So Pilate said to them, “Take Him yourselves, and judge Him according to your law.” The Jews said to him, “We are not [k]permitted to put anyone to death.” 32 This happened so that the word of Jesus which He said, indicating what kind of death He was going to die, would be fulfilled.
Who is the 'them' spoken of? What law is Pilate speaking of?
John 19:19-24, 28
19 The high priest then questioned Jesus about His disciples, and about His teaching. 20 Jesus answered him, “I have spoken openly to the world; I always taught in [g]synagogues and in the temple area, where all the Jews congregate; and I said nothing in secret. 21 Why are you asking Me? Ask those who have heard what I spoke to them. Look: these people know what I said.” 22 But when He said this, one of the officers, who was standing nearby, struck Jesus, saying, “Is that the way You answer the high priest?” 23 Jesus answered him, “If I have spoken wrongly, testify of the wrong; but if rightly, why do you strike Me?” 24 So Annas sent Him bound to Caiaphas the high priest...28 Then they *brought Jesus from Caiaphas into the [h]Praetorium...
Matthew 26:3
3 At that time the chief priests and the elders of the people were gathered together in the courtyard of the high priest named Caiaphas; 4 and they plotted together to arrest Jesus covertly and kill Him...
47 And while He was still speaking, behold, Judas, one of the twelve, came [s]accompanied by a large crowd with swords and clubs, who came from the chief priests and elders of the people. 48 Now he who was betraying Him gave them a sign previously, saying, “Whomever I kiss, He is the one; arrest Him.” 57 Those who had arrested Jesus led Him away to Caiaphas, the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were gathered together.
11 Now Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor questioned Him, saying, “So You are the King of the Jews?” And Jesus said to him, “It is as you say.” 12 And while He was being accused by the chief priests and elders, He did not offer any answer. 13 Then Pilate *said to Him, “Do You not hear how many things they are testifying against You?” 14 And still He did not answer him in regard to even a single [e]charge, so the governor was greatly amazed... 17 So when the people gathered together, Pilate said to them, “Whom do you want me to release for you: Barabbas, or Jesus who is called Christ?” 18 For he knew that it was because of envy that [g]they had handed Him over... 20 But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowds to ask for Barabbas, and to put Jesus to death. 21 And the governor [i]said to them, “Which of the two do you want me to release for you?” And they said, “Barabbas.” 22 Pilate *said to them, “Then what shall I do with Jesus who is called Christ?” They all *said, “[j]Crucify Him!” 23 But he said, “Why, what evil has He done?” Yet they kept shouting all the more, saying, “[k]Crucify Him!”
24 Now when Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but rather that a riot was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd, saying, “I am innocent of this Man’s blood; you yourselves shall see.” 25 And all the people replied, “His blood shall be on us and on our children!” 26 Then he released Barabbas [l]for them; but after having Jesus flogged, he handed Him over to be crucified.
As you can see, the 'them' and 'they' refers to the Jews, especially the religious leaders, who handed Jesus over to be crucified instead of Barabbas. Thus, once again, Scripture reveals who was guilty and instrumental of His death, and those who had Him pierced and treated a righteous/innocent Man as a criminal.
5) What does coming with or coming on/in the clouds reference in the OT? Do you know?
6) 'All the tribes of the earth/land' signify the twelve tribes of Israel. In fact, the whole of Revelation is concerned with a soon, quick coming judgment upon Israel. That fact can be demonstrated repeatedly throughout the Revelation. More passages reference or quote the OT than any other NT writing. What is more, Revelation is John's version of the Olivet Discourse. That, too, can be logically and reasonably demonstrated. Any other take/interpretation is weak in comparison.
7) The ONE who is to come describes Himself as the Almighty. He uses the phrase alpha and omega about Himself; the same phrase used to describe Jesus in Revelation 22. What is more, Chapter 22 draws even more on Isaiah as a reference to the "
first and last, the
beginning and end."
8) 'The' (singular) signifies ONE.
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Then He said to me, “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give water to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life, without cost.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
8) a) How many first and lasts can there be? If you are first, are you also second, third, and fourth? If you are last, does that mean that others are behind you?
8) b) The Alpha and Omega is applied to God in verse 1:8 (the Almighty). The Almighty is coming soon. The alpha and omega are applied to Jesus in Revelation 22:13.
8) c) The Alpha and Omega is the One who offers water to quench the soul. He is the
living water that gives eternal life.
but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never be thirsty; but the water that I will give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up to eternal life.”
Notice in Revelation, God gives the waters of everlasting life. In John 4:14, it is Jesus who gives the water. What is true of the Father (as God) is true of the Son (as God). Over and over, we understand this in the NT writings. God gives Israel bread or manna from heaven in the OT. In the NT Jesus is the bread of heaven. What is applied to God the Father in the OT is applied to Jesus Christ in the NT. There is
one Redeemer, the only
Saviour, God in the OT;
Jesus in the NT. I could list hundreds of examples that speak of God in the OT that speak of Jesus in the NT. Not only this, I could show you that most pages of the OT are a typology of the Lord Jesus Christ, a foreshadowing of what was to come, the spiritual and greater truth. Thus, the physical historic people, places and events of the OT are a foreshadow of a greater spiritual truth.
***
BrotherD is ignorant of what Scripture teaches, nor will he debate me after several attempts I have made to make him own up to his charges against me. IOW's he is not willing to put up but maligns me with ad hominem and slander. This is the person you chose to side with, and say is correct, who can't justify what he says, who never sticks to a thorough exegesis of a passage but changes the subject. Thus, it is pointless engaging with him.
I will address your posts on that thread you mentioned now that I am aware of it.
Maybe the words " "who is to come quickly, and soon, the time is near" actual mean something else entirely, in ancient Greek? maybe it means - ` I have no intention of returning to this shithole "y'all" call home, so don't wait up you clowns'?
They are a plain narrative. As soon as you suggest that maybe they mean something other than what they say in a context, you create an eisegesis unless you can demonstrate and support such a claim from Scripture. Again, this shows the length people will go to make Scripture say something more than it conveys.
