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3RU7AL
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The vast majority of "men's rights" groups are not actually about trying to reverse sexual discrimination against men. They don't even make the effort. They're about undermining feminism and fighting against equality. It's basically the same kind of mindset that pushes some on the right to insist that white people are the real victims. Any erosion of power, however unjust that power position is, makes some people feel like victims of discrimination.

'A Voice for Men' was the most prominent, loud and genuinely awful groups a few years ago. Probably still are. And if you bothered to pay attention to the things they were actually trying to get attention for, it either had nothing to do with addressing actual sexual discrimination or was used as a battering tool against women and feminism. AVfM, in particular, has advanced lies that about half of rape accusations against men are false, that domestic violence shelters for women are just teaching anti-male politics, that domestic violence against men studies were hiding real rates of violence, have doxxed feminists and female protestors, stated that women would be useless if not for sex, etc.
The most common argument in these kinds of groups (again, a majority) is that sexual discrimination against men is a bigger and wider problem than discrimination against women. On its face, it's a rejection of the very basic feminist notion that women are not yet treated equally. And even when they attempt something positive, it's anti-female. Rather than try to seek better care for veterans, AVfM sought better care for male veterans. Like, most veterans are men, why make the distinction except to specifically discriminate against female veterans?

As frustrating and horrifying as these kinds of groups are, the truth is that a bigger part of me just feels sad. Because there are issues that affect men more than women. There are problems that aren't being properly addressed. Men who experience sexual assault at the hands of women, though rarer than the other way around, usually have no recourse in the courts. Because the idea that a woman can rape a man is "silly." Men commit suicide at higher rates and, partly thanks to the sexual roles that push them into both self-reliance and an aversion to asking for emotional support, are less likely to seek help when suicidal ideation takes hold. The outreach aimed at reducing suicide currently works better for women than men. That's a problem. But most men's groups aren't trying to address and fix problems, they're about airing grievances against feminism and women. It's so stupid and pointless.

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What you call "the majority" is simply the worst examples that have been AMPLIFIED by media in order to paint the entire movement with a BROAD-BRUSH and create a convenient BOOGIE-MAN to rally against. It's a game. We're all humans and should defend the individual sovereignty of all humans, BOTH female and male, foreigner and citizen, no matter how poor and no matter how rich they may be. They want us to think of each other as "evil", but that's just a game that keeps us fighting amongst ourselves.

I want to live in a world where all humans are treated like humans.

Homeless people are not trash.

Criminals are not trash.

Foreigners (Russians/Chinese/Iranians/North-Koreans) are not evil trash.



Athias
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I have a younger cousin, with whom I have a variety of discussions ranging from politics to "good eats." Over the last several years, he has affiliated himself with the "MGTOW" ideology. I've attempted to dissuade him from sustaining this ideology because I believe that their complaints do not align with the "individuality" they allegedly seek. I also believe that, like many of these gendered movements, they have no solutions. And I speculate the reason they have no solutions is that their "victim-hood" is essentially a contrivance intended on drawing attention to themselves.

I've never endorsed the concept of equality, and I will never endorse the concept of equality because it necessarily undermines individuality--especially if this equality is to be enforced. Neither MRM/MRA/AVfM/MGTOW nor Feminism has a legitimate gripe against the sex whom they've claimed has victimized them. And these movements have done more to sow conflict rather than promote cohesion.
Greyparrot
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Feminism liberated men from women. Men no longer have an obligation or any social responsibility to provide for any woman. Ever.

Families are completely optional at this point as well as an intact nuclear family thanks to feminism and the shattering of biologically constructed social roles.

Enjoy your cats feminazis.

Athias
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Feminism liberated men from women. Men no longer have an obligation or any social responsibility to provide for any woman. Ever.

Families are completely optional at this point as well as an intact nuclear family thanks to feminism and the shattering of biologically constructed social roles.

Enjoy your cats feminazis.
I once had a prolonged discussion with an ardent feminist, who was unaware of how versed I was in feminist history (thank you gender studies courses.) She quoted from Simone De Beauvoir to Emmeline Pankhurst. When all was reduced, she conceded that her idea of oppression was infantilization. I then asked her, "if infantilization = opression, then why do feminist not oppose, but in many instances facilitate the oppression of children?" These gendered movements are primarily based on erratic emotions with no informed context.

It's true that Feminism especially in its adoption by the State as well as it perpetuation in the media has done a number on the family unit. I would argue the same of ideologies like MGTOW who do not seek to solve this, but to "liberate themselves" from the yolk of "female oppression." The male and female are essential. And there is in my opinion a concerted effort to sow discord among them.

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It's true that Feminism especially in its adoption by the State as well as it perpetuation in the media has done a number on the family unit. I would argue the same of ideologies like MGTOW who do not seek to solve this, but to "liberate themselves" from the yolk of "female oppression." The male and female are essential. And there is in my opinion a concerted effort to sow discord among them.
I have been binge watching Kevin Samuels for weeks. I highly recommend listening to his points.

Generations of modern Feminism has taught many women to have masculine energy, which is a biological turnoff for many men.

It has also taught men to have feminine energy which no woman wants. 

The redefining of social roles by purposefully ignoring biology is the direct cause of the destruction of most heterosexual relationships and ultimately the nuclear family. This was going to happen whether or not MGTOW existed. MGTOW for most men is just a recently constructed therapy group for men to help them suppress their biological urges to provide for a woman in a world where almost no woman rewards a man for doing so.
 



sadolite
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People who use govt and politics to make people hate each other based on race sex ect. are definitely trash.

3RU7AL
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Generations of modern Feminism has taught many women to have masculine energy, which is a biological turnoff for many men.
so, i'm guessing you don't like seeing bikini girls holding assault rifles ?
3RU7AL
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It's true that Feminism especially in its adoption by the State
any ideology that focuses on asking "the state" to "rescue them" from something is CASH MUNY $$$
Greyparrot
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As long as it's my rifle, it's fine.
3RU7AL
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Men no longer have an obligation
that's the beauty of personal sovereignty

you are only ever "obligated" to YOURSELF
Greyparrot
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MGTOW for most men is just a recently constructed therapy group for many men to help them suppress their biological urges to provide for a woman in a world where almost no woman rewards a man for doing so.
 
3RU7AL
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I've never endorsed the concept of equality, and I will never endorse the concept of equality because it necessarily undermines individuality
ANARCHY = EQUALITY

PERSONAL SOVEREIGNTY = EQUALITY
3RU7AL
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regardless of "social pressure" and "the law"

you are only ever "obligated" to YOURSELF
Greyparrot
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you are only ever "obligated" to YOURSELF
That's the mantra perpetuated by toxic feminism, Congrats sheep.
TheUnderdog
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Criminals like murderers and rapists don’t deserve  human rights like liberty.
3RU7AL
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you are only ever "obligated" to YOURSELF
That's the mantra perpetuated by toxic feminism, Congrats sheep.
you're only a sheep if you're "obligated" to the fucking herd
3RU7AL
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Criminals like murderers and rapists don’t deserve  human rights like liberty.
do you believe that some people can be falsely convicted of rape ?

do you believe that those people are trash ?
Greyparrot
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you're only a sheep if you're "obligated" to the fucking herd
Rip the human species. It just won the Darwin award.
3RU7AL
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you're only a sheep if you're "obligated" to the fucking herd
Rip the human species. It just won the Darwin award.
you have just achieved critical mass

i'm not suggesting you should murder everyone

i'm not suggesting you should abandon anyone

i'm not suggesting you should become a hermit

i'm suggesting you should be a "good person" because you want to be a "good person"

if you are a "good person" because you fear hellish punishment YOU ARE A SLAVE

if you are a "good person" because you expect heavenly reward YOU ARE A MERCENARY

if you are a "good person" even if it costs you everything,

then you are truly free
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Tell that to the millions of shallow feminists who have no purpose in society other than their careers.

At least there will be  fewer homeless cats in the future.
Athias
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any ideology that focuses on asking "the state" to "rescue them" from something is CASH MUNY $$$
Exactly. Well stated.

ANARCHY = EQUALITY

PERSONAL SOVEREIGNTY = EQUALITY
How?
3RU7AL
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ANARCHY = EQUALITY

PERSONAL SOVEREIGNTY = EQUALITY
How?
ANARCHY = NO KINGS

ANARCHY = NO GODS

ANARCHY = PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY
3RU7AL
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Tell that to the millions of shallow feminists who have no purpose in society other than their careers.

At least there will be  fewer homeless cats in the future.
people who do not cultivate strong familial bonds will die out

cultures that do not cultivate strong familial bonds face certain extinction
3RU7AL
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Tell that to the millions of shallow feminists who have no purpose in society other than their careers.

At least there will be  fewer homeless cats in the future.
you can't scare a person into becoming a "good person"

you can't bribe a person into becoming a "good person"
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Your #1 and #19 are some of the greatest wisdom I've read here in a long time. We don't often agree on details of things, but on these, grand slams! Well done!