3RU7AL for DebateArt.com President - Official

Author: 3RU7AL

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RationalMadman
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@Athias
Why do you perpetuate that this is still a competition between just you and Wylted? As far as my capacity to participate in this campaign process as well as my capacity to vote, this competition is between 3RU7AL and the rest of the candidates, which includes you.
I actually am taking this opponent much more seriously than Wylted is, so yes I respect that. It's why I'm challenging the candidate (that now it seems you speak on behalf of and I have no issue with that) and actively challenging you on certain things, responding to what you challenge me on as well.

Wylted just said this campaign mimics the others and then changed to attacking me. If either of us respects 3RU7AL as a genuine third candidate it's me.

I am also realistic and think that Wylted and I are already very neck and neck so whoever loses more votes to 3RU7AL is very likely to lose between the 2 of us whereas I'm fairly certain that this third candidacy is not going to overtake in overall popularity and appeal.

This isn't arrogance, it's genuine realism. You can take it as arrogance and delusion and realise I am correct on the election day(s) then.
RationalMadman
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@Athias
Really, you think so? No one has ever believed in me before. Now that I think about it, you're right. Why don't I just run myself?

Try harder, next time.
Do you genuinely think you will be less popular and charismatic as the actual candidate with 3RU7AL as your ardent supporter than the other way around?

I wasn't trying to trick you at all.
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@Athias
3RU7AL was very straight to the point with you from my observations. And that's because his statements reflect his capacity to filter through the volume of extraneous details which you dumped his way.
They weren't extraneous details, it's why you are genuinely replying to them or at least are doing so a lot more than 3RU7AL did.
Athias
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@RationalMadman
That will influence moderator decisions and balance out their bias, correct?
I'm not saying one can't influence their decisions. But the individual who assumes this office must command the respect of the moderators as well as those over whom said individual presides. And that individual is not you. I understand this; 3RU7AL understands this; you don't.
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@Athias
I would like you to show us 3RU7AL's general interactions before this thread and the one where you nominated the user.

You will find I didn't 'insult' or 'twist' anything, this user tend to restrictively interact with other users by posting URLs, one-liners or very robotic strings of text that don't seem to show a proper understanding of what is being expressed by the other user.

Sometimes the one-liners or one-word responses are actually more relevant and good replies than the extensive ones. I can show you examples if you want, we need to consider this when we try to imagine how a conversation between the moderators and 3RU7AL will go, which will affect the site.
Athias
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@RationalMadman
I don't speak on behalf of 3RU7AL. 3RU7AL has already spoken on behalf of himself and his platform. He was concise and straight to the point, and willing to answer your queries as long as they were relevant. But you have brought something to my attention: I have engaged you in this back and forth long enough and don't intend to derail others from participating. And while I will not completely end my participation, I will excuse myself for the time being. Enjoy your night, sir.
RationalMadman
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@Athias
I'm not derailing others from participating, I am one of the only people willingly participating, there's a difference.

To prove it, I'll take a break myself and stop and we'll see what other's ask or say.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
This platform is closer to what I had originally hoped RMs platform would look like and caused me to support him originally (I thought RMs belief that he has been persecuted in the past would make him more focused on the idea of equal treatment for all). 
How am I against that? I absolutely support it. We must all be equally cared for and protected by the moderation team and President, do you agree?
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@RationalMadman
I am not convinced you or wylted would be as neutral as Brutal in taking into account the facts of the case versus your personal beliefs about the accused's character and your personal or political agendas.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I am not convinced you or wylted would be as neutral as Brutal in taking into account the facts of the case versus your personal beliefs about the accused's character and your personal or political agendas.
That's ridiculous.  

I am no ideologue. I don't care about anybodys  belief system or political ideology. 

Brutal is an ideologue however. I've read through his posts. 

Name one time you have seen me take any political ideology seriously?

The only consistent ideology you see me talk about is anti establishment.  The people most likely to get banned are anti establishment rule breakers, whether leftist or right wing. Who do you think I am more inclined to be biased towards. The pro establishment mods (because they are literally the establishment) or the anti establishment people more likely to find themselves needing my help?

I literally have friends who are black Israelite and hate whites. We bond over talking shit about the government, while they tell me I am evil. 

I'll even defend RM if he is unfairly banned, and most of his bans are unfair. 


Discipulus_Didicit
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@Wylted
Who do you think I am more inclined to be biased towards. The pro establishment mods (because they are literally the establishment) or the anti establishment people more likely to find themselves needing my help?
My ideal candidate holds no bias either way. Blind anti-establishmentism is equally as silly as blind following of an establishment. Sometimes bans are justified, I don't want a president that ignores this simple fact to find any way they can to 'stick it to the man'.
Discipulus_Didicit
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@blamonkey
@Barney
@Vader
@whiteflame
@oromagi
With his beliefs in freedom of speech and privacy combined with his campaign platform being to ensure fair enforcement of the democratically ratified CoC through a laissez faire approach rather than just supporting the parts he likes and the fact that he is such a non-controversial figure on the site virtually guaranteeing his election will cause no needless drama that would need to be dealt with in some way, 3RU7AL should be the favored candidate for the mods. Vote accordingly,or tell me why I am wrong and possibly change my mind entirely.
Lunatic
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@Discipulus_Didicit
With his beliefs in freedom of speech and privacy combined with his campaign platform being to ensure fair enforcement of the democratically ratified CoC through a laissez faire approach rather than just supporting the parts he likes and the fact that he is such a non-controversial figure on the site virtually guaranteeing his election will cause no needless drama that would need to be dealt with in some way, 3RU7AL should be the favored candidate for the mods. Vote accordingly,or tell me why I am wrong and possibly change my mind entirely.

1. What about what he says indicates a laissez faire approach? He wants fair and balanced moderating, not less moderating.

2. Why is less "drama" around an election results a bad thing? The way I see it more activity and people talking is exactly what this website needs. 
Discipulus_Didicit
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@oromagi
Wait, you aren't a mod are you? sorry for the above tag. Not sure why I thought you were.
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@Lunatic
1. What about what he says indicates a laissez faire approach? He wants fair and balanced moderating, not less moderating.
Slight misunderstanding. I was not talking about the powers of the mods here but rather the powers of the president. Specifically in reference to post 14 where 3RU7AL points out that the powers of the president as currently outlined are rather limited and that he thinks it should stay that way. This becomes particularly important when considering the two other nominees are both likely to think the powers of the position should be strengthened and whoever wins the first ever seat may potentially have the ability to establish precedent for that exact issue.

Now, I happen to agree with this position of 3RU7AL's. If you hypothetically did not agree with this position then I could of course understand why you would not see this as a good reason to vote for him.

2. Why is less "drama" around an election results a bad thing? The way I see it more activity and people talking is exactly what this website needs. 
Note in post 72 I specifically used the phrase "needless drama". I think this is an important distinction. There is "drama [link]", which is not inherently bad and does often serve an important positive purpose, and there is "needless drama [link]", which isn't always inherently harmful but does serve to stir up negative interactions while generally lacking any redeeming qualities.

Where we draw that line probably differs, you may even not make any such distinction yourself which is fine, but pointing out that there is such a line (at least in my mind) at least serves to clarify what I meant in my post and hopefully answer your question.
Lunatic
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Slight misunderstanding. I was not talking about the powers of the mods here but rather the powers of the president. Specifically in reference to post 14 where 3RU7AL points out that the powers of the president as currently outlined are rather limited and that he thinks it should stay that way. This becomes particularly important when considering the two other nominees are both likely to think the powers of the position should be strengthened and whoever wins the first ever seat may potentially have the ability to establish precedent for that exact issue.

Now, I happen to agree with this position of 3RU7AL's. If you hypothetically did not agree with this position then I could of course understand why you would not see this as a good reason to vote for him.
What issues are important to you as a voter than for a president? Wylted stands for less moderation, RM stands for more, and 3RU7AL stands for, well lets be honest hear, trying to have as little impact on moderation as possible. Why does that appeal to you more than someone appealing to the mods or pushing the mods towards more laissez faire style? 

Note in post 72 I specifically used the phrase "needless drama". I think this is an important distinction. There is "drama [link]", which is not inherently bad and does often serve an important purpose, and there is "needless drama [link]", which isn't always inherently harmful but does serve to stir up negative interactions while generally lacking any redeeming qualities.

Where we draw that line probably differs, you may even not make any such distinction yourself which is fine, but pointing out that there is such a line (at least in my mind) at least serves to clarify what I meant in my post and hopefully answer your question.
Would you prefer less activity then in general if say that activity was was mostly "needless" drama? TBH tumbleweeds in the main forum of a debate site is pretty disheartening to me. If the whole page was a Jerry Springer episode, at least there is some entertainment there. Considering I and probably many other use this website for entertainment, social interaction, intellectual stimulation, etc, I think drama is better then, well, nothing. 

Even if I wouldn't engage in the pot stirring stuff, it would just be nice to see a pulse lol. 


RationalMadman
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I am not convinced you or wylted would be as neutral as Brutal in taking into account the facts of the case versus your personal beliefs about the accused's character and your personal or political agendas.
That is because neither Wylted nor myself has had a chance to prove neutrality in leadership, we never have been leaders on the website so far.

I would point out that both Wylted and I have shown shifts in approaches to mods though but that was also self-interest based in part for both of us so it doesn't really show neutrality.

I don't get how you expect 3RU7AL to be better with even less of a track record in any department. That user barely interacts with others in a social sense, the main supporter Athias has been a better spoken figure than 3RU7AL himself during this campaign.
Discipulus_Didicit
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@Lunatic

Would you prefer less activity then in general if say that activity was was mostly "needless" drama? TBH tumbleweeds in the main forum of a debate site is pretty disheartening to me. If the whole page was a Jerry Springer episode, at least there is some entertainment there. Considering I and probably many other use this website for entertainment, social interaction, intellectual stimulation, etc, I think drama is better then, well, nothing. 
Between the two extremes of no activity whatsoever and 100% of everything anyone says being just 'a Jerry Springer episode', yeah... both of those would be equally a turn-off for me and would cause me to leave and spend my time elsewhere. Better than nothing doesn't necessarily mean better than somewhere else, and going somewhere else is always an option. In reality I have been enjoying my time here quite well myself, however, which is a decent segue into your next question...

What issues are important to you as a voter than for a president? 
I think the fact that I don't see any major problems with the moderation as it currently stands biases me toward the status quo, even to the extent that when the MEEP to introduce the position of president was introduced I voted against it. While I have since changed my mind on that for a few reasons I still hold the opinion that the moderation team continues to perform their duties sufficiently well that no significant reforms are required. Given that, when you characterize the three platforms as follows:

Wylted stands for less moderation, RM stands for more, and 3RU7AL stands for, well lets be honest hear, trying to have as little impact on moderation as possible.
I think it makes sense why I would choose 3RU7AL.

Someone that wanted to somehow use the presidency to sway the mods in some way because they aren't satisfied with their performance or for some other reason would probably be better off voting for some other candidate and that makes complete sense. That someone just happens to not be me.
Lunatic
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Interesting responses. Thanks for your time, good to see what issues others are looking into here when it comes to voting. 
RationalMadman
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I do not stand for forcing mods to overreact, that's never been my platform.

I stand for holding mods to a standard of listening to people when they complain or need help and are overreacting to someone.

Currently the mods only react when someone pesters them enough with reports and PMs. I seek to change that and make them more reactive, not necessarily by moderating alone but also by PMing back with less vagueness and more direct information to the people of what to do.

There is a huge difference between responding to someone 'we will not moderate this, it's not breaking any rules' or saying 'Block them, click the flags and react to them in these ways instead and we'll intervene if they still harass'.
Wylted
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@Discipulus_Didicit
My ideal candidate holds no bias either way. Blind anti-establishmentism is equally as silly as blind following of an establishment. Sometimes bans are justified, I don't want a president that ignores this simple fact to find any way they can to 'stick it to the man'.
Are you teisting what I am saying or just misinterpreting it?

Nobody said anything about behaving blindly anti establishment.  I told you where my biases lay, because previously you said my biases would be about left right ideology.

Unfortunately I am human and cannot eliminate my biases completely. All I can do is be on guard against them and try my best to not let them get in the way of my decisions.  Certainly it is pretty obvious I'd better guard against those biases better than RM or brutal, and I think it is in my favor, that I am aware enough of my biases to acknowledge them. 
Wylted
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@Discipulus_Didicit
two other nominees are both likely to think the powers of the position should be strengthened and whoever wins the first ever seat may potentially have the ability to establish precedent for that exact issue.
Incorrect. You'll see me being very careful with precedents, since the next election I won't be qualified for and RM will most likely win. 

Granted brutal is not as much of a danger to the site, but I read through some of his most recent threads. He is very ideological and his ideal of sparking discussion is creating a thread and posting a 2 hour video and saying discuss. 


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Jesus, all of these presidential threads are way too long for me. They look and write like a cultural thing from another planet that im not entirely sure i empathise but whatever. I know ive made a habit of not keeping up with site-related discussions but i think these long threads are still a hassle. All in all, though, i think i favor 3RU7AL’s position a bit more than the others. Ill probably vote for 3RU7AL.
Discipulus_Didicit
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@Wylted
because previously you said my biases would be about left right ideology.
I do not think your biases would be about left/right political ideology. When I said:

I am not convinced you [RM] or wylted would be as neutral as Brutal in taking into account the facts of the case versus your personal beliefs about the accused's character and your personal or political agendas.

I was referring to DART politics, not irl politics. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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@RationalMadman
I do not stand for forcing mods to overreact, that's never been my platform.

I stand for holding mods to a standard of listening to people when they complain or need help and are overreacting to someone.
This is not a terrible platform. If you win the election, please stick to it to the best of your ability.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Your vote can literally be the vote that matters. Wylted may literally win by 1 or I may win by 1.
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@RationalMadman
Or 3RU7AL may win by 1.

The wasted vote fallacy applies in real life because voters are not allowed to change their vote if they see their second preferred candidate losing to their least favored candidate. That is unlikely to be the case in the DART presidential election and thus it should not influence the vote of any reasonable person in this matter.

I other words, calm your damn tits. Please.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I'm calm. I also am right.

Do as you please and vote for 3RU7AL. 3RU7AL will get 4 votes maximum (MarkWebberFan, Athias, 3RU7AL if self-voting is allowed and yourself).
Wylted
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@Discipulus_Didicit
This is not a terrible platform. If you win the election, please stick to it to the best of your ability.
This is what he believes in his mind he will do. His e
Heart is in the right place perhaps. Please see lunatics thread explaining why it would be a terrible ideal if he became president
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@Lunatic
and 3RU7AL stands for, well lets be honest hear, trying to have as little impact on moderation as possible.
my primary focus is on insuring all moderation decisions are based on QUANTIFIABLE and transparent rules